Commander GT PRO - 168V 20" 3000wh

[Rawnei]

28 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

Who said anything about measuring distance? I said a radar, you know a wave bouncing off an object and recording how long it takes to get back to it's source. It's the most accurate way of measuring the speed of an object. A GPS signal can be very unreliable for many reasons.

 

I'm talking about the videos in this thread claiming records based on wheel reported speed.

[WheelGoodTime]

1 hour ago, Rawnei said:

Uh huh, and how much does this wheel overreport? A bit tired of the fake numbers.

The C40 version overreported at 24%, but then they changed the C40 firmware to "only" overreport at 18% but kept the C38 firmware the same. I don't know what the C38 version overreports at, but EB seems to be leading the charge in overreporting speeds, even more so than Begode. the "70 mph" reported speed is still impressive to be sure, but based on how much EB is overreporting, I think that number is closer to about 57-60 mph most likely.

[Rawnei]

2 minutes ago, WheelGoodTime said:

The C40 version overreported at 24%, but then they changed the C40 firmware to "only" overreport at 18% but kept the C38 firmware the same. I don't know what the C38 version overreports at, but EB seems to be leading the charge in overreporting speeds, even more so than Begode. the "70 mph" reported speed is still impressive to be sure, but based on how much EB is overreporting, I think that number is closer to about 57-60 mph most likely.

Exactly, I'm not saying that's not fast but it's quite a stretch to claim 70mph.

[xiiijojjo]

8 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

Exactly, I'm not saying that's not fast but it's quite a stretch to claim 70mph.

I had no idea the overreporting had gotten this bad, I was excited there for a while. I haven't ridden in a while so IDK if it's already here but maybe EUCworld could start implementing some way to report GPS "real" speed rather than "wheel" speed, if the manufacturers are gonna stoop to manipulation like this in order to move units. 

[Robse]

It is correct that it is not a real 70 mph. But since apparently ALL wheels without exception indicates the wrong speed, and apparently it's always on the "good side", then it can actually be a cool thing - the fact is, Hsiang is probably the first to have been riding at that speed on a EUC.  And regardless of whether it's only 64 mph, it's still blazing fast, and it's bound to end with someone killing themselves...

[WheelGoodTime]

Just now, Robse said:

It is correct that it is not a real 70 mph. But since apparently ALL wheels without exception indicates the wrong speed, and apparently it's always on the "good side", then it can actually be a cool thing - the fact is, Hsiang is probably the first to have been riding at that speed on a EUC.  And regardless of whether it's only 64 mph, it's still blazing fast, and it's bound to end with someone killing themselves...

The level of overreporting that EUCs are doing has gotten unbelievably out of control. I might be wrong about this, but Hsiang may have potentially been goign just as fast, or faster, in his video when he tried to get to 60 mph on the Lynx. I believe the GT Pro is objectively faster, but since LK is significantly closer to "true" speed, the reported speed is much more trustworthy.

[Rawnei]

1 hour ago, xiiijojjo said:

I had no idea the overreporting had gotten this bad, I was excited there for a while. I haven't ridden in a while so IDK if it's already here but maybe EUCworld could start implementing some way to report GPS "real" speed rather than "wheel" speed, if the manufacturers are gonna stoop to manipulation like this in order to move units. 

It's Begode and EB wheels that are doing that, the trend started with EX30, if you know the offset you can apply negative speed and distance correction in EUC World to get accurate readouts, you just compare to GPS on your tours to figure out the offset.

1 hour ago, Robse said:

It is correct that it is not a real 70 mph. But since apparently ALL wheels without exception indicates the wrong speed, and apparently it's always on the "good side", then it can actually be a cool thing - the fact is, Hsiang is probably the first to have been riding at that speed on a EUC.  And regardless of whether it's only 64 mph, it's still blazing fast, and it's bound to end with someone killing themselves...

Lynx for example overreports about 5%, EX30 13%, the ET Max 15%+, that is quite a big difference, I don't know how much this wheel overreports but lets say for the sake of argument it's 15%, that means when display says 70mph it's actually going 60mph but then you have a video saying "Worlds first wheel doing 70mph!" and people echoing "World record!", it's a lie that a lot of people seem to have no problem to get behind, either because they love the fantasy or they are just really gullible?

Imagine if Guinness Book of Records was based on padded and inaccurate numbers or the Olympic games just rounded numbers up or down because it  looks cooler.

And again anyone with EUC World can figure out the offset from analyzing their tours and then set speed correction, even DarknessBot has speed correction if you know what to set and tada you have accurate numbers, this should be pretty basic knowledge and it's odd that content creators don't even know this simple thing.

Edited July 6 by Rawnei

[Frolic0415]

8 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

64

Same as ET Max then?

https://www.reddit.com/r/ElectricUnicycle/comments/1dwecae/65_mph/

 

Edited July 7 by Frolic0415

[Ronin]

Hi, here is below a GPS world record. GPS is really a "reliable" thing. No fantasy numbers here. 😅

@Hsiang reviews wheels with wheel speed, not gps. It's a known fact. Why acting surprised and requesting gps tests in a tunnel?  Do you want to see crazy numbers like the screenshot below? This is likely what's going to happen doing gps in the cutout tunnel. I myself got asked a few times by alledged gps experts to do gps speeds in a tunnel, I'm always speechless, as gps doesn't work in a tunnel 😅. 

The goal of these speed runs is to demonstrate the power and potential speed of a wheel. They are never accurate but are good to give an overall idea. They should be taken as such and nothing else. The clickbait title is just part of the euc YouTube game. It's info-entertainment. Working 25h+ on a video, it's normal to title it with something that translates into clicks, I wouldnt have done it differently. Nothing wrong with that. Imo of course. 

Edited July 7 by Ronin Ryder

[Tomallo]

54 minutes ago, Ronin Ryder said:

Hi, here is below a GPS world record. GPS is really a "reliable" thing. No fantasy numbers here. 😅

@Hsiang reviews wheels with wheel speed, not gps. It's a known fact. Why acting surprised and requesting gps tests in a tunnel?  Do you want to see crazy numbers like the screenshot below? This is likely what's going to happen doing gps in the cutout tunnel. I myself got asked a few times by alledged gps experts to do gps speeds in a tunnel, I'm always speechless, as gps doesn't work in a tunnel 😅. 

The goal of these speed runs is to demonstrate the power and potential speed of a wheel. They are never accurate but are good to give an overall idea. They should be taken as such and nothing else. The clickbait title is just part of the euc YouTube game. It's info-entertainment. Working 25h+ on a video, it's normal to title it with something that translates into clicks, I wouldnt have done it differently. Nothing wrong with that. Imo of course. 

The argument is valid, but it would simply be best to first go to a place where the GPS connection is solid, check the correction factor, apply it, and then go into a tunnel with the correct wheel speed in the app. Of course, ideally, this wouldn't all be necessary at all if only the manufacturers were honest about the speed from the factory... now it's just ridiculous, shame to begode and Extreme bull for that.

It's quite rare for GPS numbers to go haywire, a once in a blue moon erroneous indication like this doesn't rule out GPS completely all of the time, plus when it's wrong, usually the numbers are wrong by so much that it's immediately obvious, contrary to a few percent that's always off with the stock wheel speed)

Edited July 7 by Tomallo

[Ronin]

3 minutes ago, Tomallo said:

The argument is valid, but it would simply be best to first go to a place where the GPS connection is solid, check the correction factor, apply it, and then go into a tunnel with the correct wheel speed in the app. Of course, ideally, this wouldn't all be necessary at all if only the manufacturers were honest about the speed from the factory... now it's just ridiculous, shame to begode and Extreme bull for that.

Maybe one way would be to inform of the deviation % by checking it elsewhere, makes sense. 

Edited July 7 by Ronin Ryder

[Frolic0415]

2 hours ago, Ronin Ryder said:

Hi, here is below a GPS world record. GPS is really a "reliable" thing. No fantasy numbers here. 😅

You post the same screenshot of a faulty GoPro speed readout every time someone brings up GPS vs wheel speed, and each time everyone tells you you're wrong.

We get it, you like big numbers on a screen even if they're not real or accurate in any sense. 150mph indicated speed on a wheel actually doing 30mph will make you happy.

GPS is as accurate as we get as consumers, but GoPro's GPS readout is notoriously inaccurate as they cheap out on whatever GPS equipment is used in their cameras and you've been told this the last time you posted it on Facebook lol. There's a reason vehicle manufacturers that set land speed records use GPS as the speed measurement, because proper GPS readouts are incredible accurate.

Stop excusing wheel manufacturers for over inflating the speeds on their wheels, they already get away with enough garbage as it is. We want accurate speeds on the multi thousand dollar vehicles we pay for, not some random number that's 20% higher and gives no real world indication of actual riding speeds or mileage. It's bloody annoying on my Commander Mini since the speeds are close to 10kph off and it's hard to tell how fast I'm actually going in traffic.

Tl;DR Begode and Extreme Bull need to stop lying with their artificial wheel speeds and us as consumers need to stop accepting it and making excuses for said companies.

 

Edited July 7 by Frolic0415

[Rawnei]

2 hours ago, Ronin Ryder said:

Hi, here is below a GPS world record. GPS is really a "reliable" thing. No fantasy numbers here. 😅

@Hsiang reviews wheels with wheel speed, not gps. It's a known fact. Why acting surprised and requesting gps tests in a tunnel?  Do you want to see crazy numbers like the screenshot below? This is likely what's going to happen doing gps in the cutout tunnel. I myself got asked a few times by alledged gps experts to do gps speeds in a tunnel, I'm always speechless, as gps doesn't work in a tunnel 😅. 

The goal of these speed runs is to demonstrate the power and potential speed of a wheel. They are never accurate but are good to give an overall idea. They should be taken as such and nothing else. The clickbait title is just part of the euc YouTube game. It's info-entertainment. Working 25h+ on a video, it's normal to title it with something that translates into clicks, I wouldnt have done it differently. Nothing wrong with that. Imo of course. 

Speed correction exists in both EUC World and Darknessbot you know, so argument that gps doesn't work in a tunnel is silly.

[techyiam]

I believe both indicated speeds, and gps speeds should have been reported together for top speed runs to avoid criticism.

Youtubers can still use the indicated speed in the video title for click baiting.

[jimjam.nyc]

Tough crowd.

 

[Ronin]

5 hours ago, Frolic0415 said:

You post the same screenshot of a faulty GoPro speed readout every time someone brings up GPS vs wheel speed, and each time everyone tells you you're wrong.

We get it, you like big numbers on a screen even if they're not real or accurate in any sense. 150mph indicated speed on a wheel actually doing 30mph will make you happy.

GPS is as accurate as we get as consumers, but GoPro's GPS readout is notoriously inaccurate as they cheap out on whatever GPS equipment is used in their cameras and you've been told this the last time you posted it on Facebook lol. There's a reason vehicle manufacturers that set land speed records use GPS as the speed measurement, because proper GPS readouts are incredible accurate.

Stop excusing wheel manufacturers for over inflating the speeds on their wheels, they already get away with enough garbage as it is. We want accurate speeds on the multi thousand dollar vehicles we pay for, not some random number that's 20% higher and gives no real world indication of actual riding speeds or mileage. It's bloody annoying on my Commander Mini since the speeds are close to 10kph off and it's hard to tell how fast I'm actually going in traffic.

Tl;DR Begode and Extreme Bull need to stop lying with their artificial wheel speeds and us as consumers need to stop accepting it and making excuses for said companies.

 

Of course, i'll keep showing this, and will continue to do so, even more now,  because i've never received a correct answer besides "Go pro was faulty". SMH really, when something doesnt fit the GPS narrative it gets discarded. Here is another one i found a while ago:

Lynx wheel speedometer and Radar GPS showing same speed. Is the GPS radar "faulty" too?  (edit: no answer on this after some time, yeah that's what I thought). And i could spend time doing GPS vs wheel speed tests and finding multiple cases where gps would be inacurrate, but i have better things to do. That could be a video idea one day, unless someone else wants to do it.

You didn't read anything of my previous post. Where did i excuse EUC makers? quote it, let's go (edit: here too no answer after a while, again, that's what I thought, just an incorrect statement) . I just said these wheel speed runs are not accurate AND your GPS metrics aren't always accurate too, so let's keep this in mind when assessing the speed of a wheel. I would be OK to add  a % deviation vs GPS level, that would be made , on top of the cut out tunnel speed runs. I might start to do this. 

It would be great that wheels show a GPS accurate speed, its not the case, likely will never be. So it's up to riders to take these with a grain of salt, in a calm and relaxed way. One thing though, you don't get to tell to any youtuber what they should be doing. If you don't like it,  watch something else or do it yourself, that would be perfectly fine! I know for a fact, looking at a few metrics, that this gps issue is a concern for a niche of riders, inside a niche hobby. Its also why i think it wont likely be fixed by EUC makers. Have a good one!

 

 

Edited July 7 by Ronin Ryder

[Ronin]

1 hour ago, Rawnei said:

Speed correction exists in both EUC World and Darknessbot you know, so argument that gps doesn't work in a tunnel is silly.

that GPS obsession, and the emotional turmoil it causes is also! Now riders have to manually edit the speed measurement? I was already not a fan to adjust the pwm, touching the speed manually is a no go for me.

Edited July 7 by Ronin Ryder

[Rawnei]

1 minute ago, Ronin Ryder said:

that GPS obsession, and the emotional turmoil it causes is also!

Deflection at it's finest.

[Ronin]

1 minute ago, Rawnei said:

Deflection at it's finest.

this topic is going to be split with such quality post. if you want to attack me, just do it in telegram. Let's keep this topic  focused.

[Rawnei]

9 minutes ago, Ronin Ryder said:

Of course, i'll keep showing this, and will continue to do so, even more now,  because i've never received a correct answer besides "Go pro was faulty". SMH really, when something doesnt fit the GPS narrative it gets discarded. Here is another one i found a while ago:

Lynx wheel and Radar GPS showing same speed. And i could spend time doing GPS vs wheel speed tests and finding multiple cases where gps would be inacurrate, but i have better things to do. That could be a video idea one day, unless someone else wants to do it.

You didn't read anything of my previous post. Where did i excuse EUC makers? quote it, let's go. I just said these wheel speed runs are not accurate AND your GPS metrics aren't always accurate too, so let's keep this in mind when assessing the speed of a wheel. I would be OK to add  a % deviation vs GPS level, that would be made , on top of the cut out tunnel speed runs. I might start to do this. 

It would be great that wheels show a GPS accurate speed, its not the case, likely will never be. So it's up to riders to take these with a grain of salt, in a calm and relaxed way. One thing though, you don't get to tell to any youtuber what they should be doing. If you don't like it,  watch something else or do it yourself, that would be perfectly fine! I know for a fact, looking at a few metrics, that this gps issue is a concern for a niche of riders, inside a niche hobby. Its also why i think it wont likely be fixed by EUC makers. Have a good one!

 

 

Very simple, go on a ride with EUC World, enable tour recording and logging, afterwards you can look at the tour to figure out speed difference of wheel vs GPS or even better use the log and see average value from wheel reported speed and GPS speed (hint average value is accurate here) then you can see the difference, enter this difference as a negative value in EUC World (or Darknessbot) and tada you have accurate speed.

Edited July 7 by Rawnei

[Ronin]

44 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

Very simple, go on a ride with EUC World, enable tour recording and logging, afterwards you can look at the tour to figure out speed difference of wheel vs GPS or even better use the log and see average value from wheel reported speed and GPS speed then you can see the difference, enter this difference as a negative value in EUC World (or Darknessbot) and tada you have accurate speed.

I wont do that on speed runs, you ignored the part where i mentioned earlier  im not confortable to touch manually the speed. Also if you watch my speed runs, i film the wheel display and the app at the same time as a an immersion effect. However i think i will do this to get what's the % deviation indicated by the app (euc world) and report this measure as a FYI for more transparency. Might still not satisfy the most hardcore GPS otakus...

PS: i will personally thank @Hsiang next time i meet him for these exchanges. 

Edited July 7 by Ronin Ryder

[Rawnei]

9 minutes ago, Ronin Ryder said:

I wont do that on speed runs, you ignored the part where i mentioned earlier  im not confortable to touch manually the speed. Also if you watch my speed runs (which you likely dont), i film the wheel display and the app at the same time as a an immersion effect. However i think i will do this to get what's the % deviation indicated by the app (euc world) and report this measure as a FYI for more transparency. Might still not satisfy the most hardcore GPS otakus...

PS: i will personally thank @Hsiang next time i meet him for these exchanges. 

There's different approaches you can use, you can simply figure out the difference and add it as a disclaimer.

[WheelGoodTime]

@Ronin Ryder It's quite easy to figure out the amount a wheel overreports speed. Get on a long straightaway run, keep your speed as consistent as possible, and record the wheel reported speed and the GPS speed. it helps to do it at higher speeds so you can better gauge the % that it overreports.

The short video that you shared with the neighborhood speedometer doesn't really give much ammunition to your argument because LK wheels also overreport by about 5%, and they have a couple seconds lag as well.

Yes, it is acceptable to use those numbers in thumbnails or whatever to draw viewers in. After all, that's what a thumbnail is designed to do.  But to claim that someone went a certain speed using a wheel with the most inaccurate speedometer in history and defend it is silly. We have the ability to easily find out within 1-2% how much our speedometers are inaccurate by, and with a bit more effort and time, you can get that error % really dialed in.

Nobody expects anyone to use GPS in a tunnel (which is an impossibility), but everybody expects the most accurate information possible, and the tools are at our disposal to do so.

Edited July 7 by WheelGoodTime

[onewheelkoregro]

31 minutes ago, WheelGoodTime said:

@Ronin Ryder It's quite easy to figure out the amount a wheel overreports speed. Get on a long straightaway run, keep your speed as consistent as possible, and record the wheel reported speed and the GPS speed. it helps to do it at higher speeds so you can better gauge the % that it overreports.

The short video that you shared with the neighborhood speedometer doesn't really give much ammunition to your argument because LK wheels also overreport by about 5%, and they have a couple seconds lag as well.

Yes, it is acceptable to use those numbers in thumbnails or whatever to draw viewers in. After all, that's what a thumbnail is designed to do.  But to claim that someone went a certain speed using a wheel with the most inaccurate speedometer in history and defend it is silly. We have the ability to easily find out within 1-2% how much our speedometers are inaccurate by, and with a bit more effort and time, you can get that error % really dialed in.

Nobody expects anyone to use GPS in a tunnel (which is an impossibility), but everybody expects the most accurate information possible, and the tools are at our disposal to do so.

I personally don't care how fast I go as long as I can keep up with traffic and make it to my destination safely and in style. I am not trying to break records or be the fastest person on a single wheel. I found out about EUCs while researching alternatives to gas transport to get around my city. Didn't want to be a grown man on a scooter so when I found out about EUCs I went all in. I think only racers and influencers care about "true GPS speed" personally I don't care if I am going 48 mph and my wheel reports 55. 48 mph on a single wheel is still pretty fast IMO

[Ronin]

19 minutes ago, onewheelkoregro said:

I personally don't care how fast I go as long as I can keep up with traffic and make it to my destination safely and in style. I am not trying to break records or be the fastest person on a single wheel. I found out about EUCs while researching alternatives to gas transport to get around my city. Didn't want to be a grown man on a scooter so when I found out about EUCs I went all in. I think only racers and influencers care about "true GPS speed" personally I don't care if I am going 48 mph and my wheel reports 55. 48 mph on a single wheel is still pretty fast IMO

Makes sense! I'm on the same page @onewheelkoregro. What matters is to enjoy the ride!

Edited July 7 by Ronin Ryder