Inmotion V14 Adventure: a new trail wheel from Inmotion

[Punxatawneyjoe]

2 minutes ago, bpong said:

its not looking good for inmotion.

Agreed, the only saving grace is once the get the bugs worked out it will be reliable and we cant say that about others. Unfortunately, it's currently looking worse as far as incidents go.

[bpong]

2 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

Agreed, the only saving grace is once the get the bugs worked out it will be reliable and we cant say that about others. Unfortunately, it's currently looking worse as far as incidents go.

in some ways, its kinda cascading, ... what im wondering about is that there are already eucs shipped to stores/online retaillers,... IF that is the case,  those units may already be compromised and if owners already picked them up and riding them... i wonder if more incidences will be reported either in social media or euc forums.  if i were inmotion, i would be very very nervous... the euc manufacturing industry is lucky no owner yet, has takened them to court.  no matter what a disclamer says,  if the manufactured product has an obvious flaw that makes it dangerous to the consumer,  they will be held responsible no matter what a disclaimer says...

[Punxatawneyjoe]

3 minutes ago, bpong said:

lucky no owner yet, has takened them to court. 

There are many "lawsuits" against Inmotion currently, however China is pretty insulated from the rest of the world and as far as they are concerned meaningless. Nobody is being extradited from China to face any "lawsuits" and they aren't recognized in the country itself. So they aren't very worried about that stuff. Lack of sales would be their primary concern.

[Unventor]

33 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

There are many "lawsuits" against Inmotion currently, however China is pretty insulated from the rest of the world and as far as they are concerned meaningless. Nobody is being extradited from China to face any "lawsuits" and they aren't recognized in the country itself. So they aren't very worried about that stuff. Lack of sales would be their primary concern.

Really? How did you get this info? And when you say many lawsuits, how many do you talk about? 

[Unventor]

41 minutes ago, bpong said:

in some ways, its kinda cascading, ... what im wondering about is that there are already eucs shipped to stores/online retaillers,... IF that is the case,  those units may already be compromised and if owners already picked them up and riding them... i wonder if more incidences will be reported either in social media or euc forums.  if i were inmotion, i would be very very nervous... the euc manufacturing industry is lucky no owner yet, has takened them to court.  no matter what a disclamer says,  if the manufactured product has an obvious flaw that makes it dangerous to the consumer,  they will be held responsible no matter what a disclaimer says...

If you read on this forum you see it is the same more or less every release no matter what brand. 

In terms of Inmotion their businesses model is to sell though resellers. They willl in general be the point of contact for the end user. This simpelfy any language barriers and logistics. 

So as Enduser your warrenty claim would be your reseller. What happens between reseller and manufacturer doesn't really matter for the enduser. This is also why local reseller charge a higher cost to cover warrenty cases and to have profit still. 

Now as for Inmotion they have a track record of resolving early batch issue in general. So are simple fixes other can require rework of the product. 

If you want a problem free new EUC you should look at models that have been out for some time. Just keep in mind any product can have a problem just like anything else you buy. Like Apple or Ford or Tesla any of these still have problems. You will also see one model / year verso can have something happening more frequently than others. 

I used to work for Canon and here we had a total faulty rate below 0.5%, which is exceptionally low for electronics. I have see rates as high as 10-20+% from know brands as Apple and Samsung. So my question here is do we expect what failure rare in EUCs compared to people drop or bump these mechanical/electrical devices? 

You can see in my profile that I am owner of several 1st batch EUCs. And yes technically the V14 50S I ordered is a 2nd batch but none 8f the 50s cell models were a 1st batch so I onida view my order at batch 1.5. Now Marty's first test wheel was a preproduction/early iteration. These are made in a way I would call handcrafted. Meaning they have yet to get expireance for this model on the production line and sub supplier of parts. 

My first V11 was of the very first 100 units made and I were first to receive this in noryher/western Europe. Yet it performed fine until I blew a drive board when attaching motor cables wrong after a tire change. And yes it has metal bearing with no extra bearing seal and still works fine. 

If you are looking at a new model yet balanced in how parts are proven, a V11Y would be my recommendation right now. But it also depends what you would desire from the EUC. Keep in mind this business of EUC is more or less 10 years only. Problems occur if we like it or not. 

[Punxatawneyjoe]

2 hours ago, Unventor said:

Really?

There are some patent infringement etc. A duck duck go search will yield you results.

2 hours ago, Unventor said:

how many do you talk about? 

none, why do you ask?

[Forwardnbak]

I still feel good about this wheel. This is just a FW problem I am sure.

I have been chatting to IM and they have my logs. They have the footage and once I learn any info I will update.

I still really like the wheel a heap and really look forward to pushing it more once this bug is sorted. 

[bpong]

32 minutes ago, Forwardnbak said:

... This is just a FW problem I am sure.

im sure current new owners will hope it is too...thanx for the update...

[techyiam]

16 minutes ago, bpong said:

im sure current new owners will hope it is too...

What is rather disappointing is that Inmotion seemed to have lost its way after the the departure of Bob Yan. With Bob Yan as CEO, Inmotion managed to improve their initial quality ranking with the V13 launch, building up customer trust. Inmotion and Leaper Kim were leading the way in 2023 for initial quality in new wheel launches. And after his departure, Inmotion may now rank below Begode with the V14.

It almost seem like Inmotion did not do enough testing with the V14.

I would trust the V13 a lot more than I would with the V14. It is getting harder to trust the V14.

My batch 2 V12 (HS) ownership experience was enough for me. And here I thought Inmotion had learned their lesson from the school of hard knocks (driver board V12 (HS)).

[bpong]

25 minutes ago, techyiam said:

What is rather disappointing is that Inmotion seemed to have lost its way after the the departure of Bob Yan.....

i will keep this short ... have any lynx owners reported any thing on this forum as yet ?  perhaps this question should be moved to the veteran forum...

[Punxatawneyjoe]

37 minutes ago, bpong said:

have any lynx owners reported any thing on this forum as yet ?

no,so far just a minor problem with the power button.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?

[Unventor]

1 hour ago, bpong said:

i will keep this short ... have any lynx owners reported any thing on this forum as yet ?  perhaps this question should be moved to the veteran forum...

That is one way to look at this. But how is that to say you don't have a problem down the line? 

What I am trying to put across here is new models come out at a fast page. And people book preorder still despite problems occur. The there are minor problem and serious safety problems. The way sore are worked out are by feedback other need new parts. This happens to all brands and Inmotion is no exception. 

Now one thing I value very much is how safe a battery pack is. And in this regard I think the V14 and V11Y is a serious bump up in the right direction. In the 6 years I have been riding we have see too many posts about battery fires. This can have a huge impact if it happens to me. Due to this I am going to ride the V14 as main wheel as my old EUC do not give me the same monitoring control of battery health. At some point a rechargeable battery needs to be replaced. 

I understand that this seems worrying for you. But if we look at how many miles riders travel with these I still think this is good. But things can improve. And here GW/Begode/Liberkin have not a perfect history when it come to fires. The might be better now that a few years back, but I do not trust them at all. 

It is also why I chose to buy a V14 50S model. I think the work @Jason McNeil put in helped to improve this model. And they way Inmotion work and worked is not only down to one person. It is a team effort after all. That said new models tend to have a few things that needs to be ironed out, whether we like that or not. 

[Unventor]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

 

I would trust the V13 a lot more than I would with the V14. It is getting harder to trust the V14.

My batch 2 V12 (HS) ownership experience was enough for me. And here I thought Inmotion had learned their lesson from the school of hard knocks (driver board V12 (HS)).

That is the odd part trust is a hard thing to argue. It is so easy to loose but very hard to earn back. 

As of the V12, most of the problem were down to components supplies that hit many companies. And it meant it took much longer time to get sorted because of supplies and demand didn't meet up. 

I have not followed the V12 version that close nor the V13 as of lately. But to me it seems most like their euc of those models. 

[Punxatawneyjoe]

1 hour ago, Unventor said:

I think the work @Jason McNeil put in helped to improve this model

Agreed, i am undeterred. I replaced 1/2 of or more of the v13 and still am glad i got it. I have the suspension dialed in and it cruses the roads at 50 like a Caddy. With the pilot 2 on it.

I also plan on beating the crap out of riding this wheel off road with the full confidence if it doesn't hold up ewheels will make it right. The v13 experience proved that to me.

[CasperBak]

So i fully charged my V14 today. Charges to 4.2V per cell no problem and after an hour unplugged they are back down to 4.17-4.18V per cell - All perfectly normal. However after plugging it back in, it will not start charging again (green charger light and 0.0A in the app). I thought it would charge back up to 4.2V and balance the cells over a few hours, why is this not the case?

[Rawnei]

9 minutes ago, CasperBak said:

So i fully charged my V14 today. Charges to 4.2V per cell no problem and after an hour unplugged they are back down to 4.17-4.18V per cell - All perfectly normal. However after plugging it back in, it will not start charging again (green charger light and 0.0A in the app). I thought it would charge back up to 4.2V and balance the cells over a few hours, why is this not the case?

Your guess is as good as ours, BMS probably have a lower limit for when to start the charge.

[Forwardnbak]

43 minutes ago, CasperBak said:

So i fully charged my V14 today. Charges to 4.2V per cell no problem and after an hour unplugged they are back down to 4.17-4.18V per cell - All perfectly normal. However after plugging it back in, it will not start charging again (green charger light and 0.0A in the app). I thought it would charge back up to 4.2V and balance the cells over a few hours, why is this not the case?

Cool last name.

 

Mine also, have not had it balance cells yet. 

It also disconnects and wont begin charging again if reconnected to balance them.

I already had one BMS update out of the box but that didn't correct it.  

[CasperBak]

1 minute ago, Forwardnbak said:

Cool last name.

 

Mine also, have not had it balance cells yet. 

It also disconnects and wont begin charging again if reconnected to balance them.

I already had one BMS update out of the box but that didn't correct it.  

Thanks! Good to hear that it is at least consistent. I have only tried with this most recent BMS version, so I guess we will see what the future brings. My understanding was that the V13 and V14 had at least passive cell balancing, but i guess the BMS deems it unnecessary given the current voltages of my unit...

[techyiam]

45 minutes ago, Forwardnbak said:

Mine also, have not had it balance cells yet. 

It also disconnects and wont begin charging again if reconnected to balance them.

I already had one BMS update out of the box but that didn't correct it.  

Just curious, since your V13 also has a smart BMS, can you compare the charging behaviour of the two wheels?

[Forwardnbak]

6 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Just curious, since your V13 also has a smart BMS, can you compare the charging behaviour of the two wheels?

I have only ever cell balanced the V13 a couple of times. I have left it for a while other times without success.

I have been using Bob's enhancer for a while now and am due for another attempt to balance.

As far as i recall the V13 stays charging like and the cells work to balance. I'll check unless someone else confirms. 

[CasperBak]

I did another long-ish ride today and thought I would share some update stats. Keep in mind it was around 6C and quite windy.

Trip: I did 100-50% SoC in 41 km and 1h 10 min. (805W average power, 3894W peak) speed between 35 and 55 kph 90% of the time.

Efficiency: As per the app 1038 Wh consumed over 41 km = 25.3wh/km, almost the exact same as last time - actually a bit better, probably because of slightly warmer weather.

Range: 2277 Wh/25.3 Wh/km = 90 km

So that is good news i think, especially since i felt that i pushed it as hard as the conditions allowed, and so this should be my minimum range for a longer ride. But given the peak power reported, I was not all that close to the wheels limit of 9000 W xD

Also fun stat, I recovered 67 Wh through regen braking. That is almost 3 extra kilometers!

[CasperBak]

Range comparison between the V12 and V14.

I went out to ride my V12 today, since the conditions are the same as yesterday (6C, windy, mostly dry)  and I could thereby get some comparable data.

The lack of suspension meant that I could not go quite as fast safely and got tired faster - so much fun while it lasted . The average speed was therefore 32 km/h for the V12 today vs 34 km/h for the V14 yesterday and I only rode 23 km vs 41 km yesterday. With all that in mind, the results are:

Efficiency: 513.8 Wh/23 km = 22.4 Wh/km

Range: 1707 Wh/22.4 Wh/km = 76 km

Conclusion: Slightly better efficiency, going slightly slower on a smaller and lighter wheel, no real surprise there. So my expectation is that, if you do not ride super slow, the efficiency will be very similar at the same speed, between the V12 and V14. This also means that the extra battery cells in the V14 compared to the V12 actually provide more range, yay! Boring conclusion I know, but a positive result in my opinion: 76 km on the V12 and 90 km on the V14.

As for the ride feel, I think the V12 is easier to use and more fun in tight turns and high traffic areas, but the V14 is more exhilarating when you get the importunity to push it - either in speed or down drops

 

[techyiam]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the comparison between the V12 and the V14.

4 hours ago, CasperBak said:

76 km on the V12 and 90 km on the V14.

The V12 has a battery capacity of 1750 Wh, whereas the V14, 2400 Wh.

Both my V12 and S22 has about the same range, even though my S22 has a battery capacity of 2220 Wh.

It's nice to hear that the V14 has more range than the V12. From what Zen Lee had said, I was a little worried. This sounds more encouraging.

I usually get about 1 km per 1% lost in battery level. But riding at 6C, the range would certainly go down. Also, at 6C, on the V12, you have only 9.8 A to play with due to the LG M50LT cells.

4 hours ago, CasperBak said:

As for the ride feel, I think the V12 is easier to use and more fun in tight turns and high traffic areas, but the V14 is more exhilarating when you get the importunity to push it - either in speed or down drops

Interesting. Again, encouraging.

On smooth roads, I prefer the way my V12 rides over my S22. The V12 is smoother and feels more balanced. Since I put in a very stiff rear scooter tire on my V12, the turning radius of a U-Turn is about the same for both my V12 and my S22. But my V12 is stable, although still not as planted as the S22 (due to a smaller 16" tire). By the latter, I mean perturbations from road irregularities can move around the V12 more. The V12 with a stock tire can turn on a dime.

I also find that my V12 is more responsive.

Moreover, I find the acceleration and braking strong on both wheels. Before, I thought my V12 was stronger, but with the latest firmware update on my S22, it seems to be stronger now. But I am not absolutely sure.

If the V14 is significantly stronger than the V12 in both acceleration and braking, that is really good to hear.

 

I have been quite unpleasantly surprised by the not so stellar range and motor performance of the S22, compared to my V12.

With the right tire and tuning, the V12 is a fun and capable wheel.

Having said that, I find the S22 shines when it comes to riding in cold wet slippery road surfaces that are bumpy and broken. I can maintain a speed that in no way I could have done on my V12 nor my Abrams, especially at night.

Edited January 28 by techyiam

[CasperBak]

23 minutes ago, techyiam said:

The V12 has a battery capacity of 1750 Wh, whereas the V14, 2400 Wh.

Both my V12 and S22 has about the same range, even though my S22 has a battery capacity of 2220 Wh.

Keep in mind that these are just marketing numbers, but the relative difference is about right. As you can see I got 16% more range from a 33% larger battery (V12 vs V14), so I guess you can expect about the same.

 

26 minutes ago, techyiam said:

But riding at 6C, the range would certainly go down. Also, at 6C, on the V12, you have only 9.8 A to play with due to the LG M50LT cells.

Yeah, this does worry me a little, especially since there is no way to see all the temps. Based in my V14 ride the cells stayed around 14-20C, all starting 18C, so maybe it is not a big concern?

28 minutes ago, techyiam said:

On smooth roads, I prefer the way my V12 rides

Same, feels almost like longboard wheels on fresh asphalt The V14 is definitely more rough, mostly noticeable below 25 km/h.

31 minutes ago, techyiam said:

I also find that my V12 is more responsive.

Yeah its weird, the V12 is definitely more responsive than the V14, but I feel I could emergency brake faster on the V14

 

33 minutes ago, techyiam said:

I can maintain a speed that in no way I could have done on my V12

I feel that. Went faster on the V14 the second day i rode it, than I ever have the V12, despite having it for over more than one year and 2000 km.

[Ro.man]

After riding a wheel for 400 km I have finally built up skills to start really enjoying the ride. So I decided that it is time to update my initial impressions review.

Now I can confidently say that the wheel goes where I want it to go, and instead of fighting with the machine forcing it go the direction I need, I’m playing with it, feeling like a superhuman runner. That is the best feeling ride ever!

In tight Phuket traffic it is a lot of fun. I noticed that going around motorbikes is as easy as was going around cars on a bike! The only thing I miss is a rearview mirror.

I have put the beeper to 55 km/h and I hear it quite often on long straights or descents. The beeper is not very loud and have rather soft tone so with all that wind noise at first I didn’t realized it was actually warning me, but later I have adopted to that. My comfortable cruising speed is still around 40-45 km/h. I would say that In tight traffic I’m faster than on my 300cc motorbike. However on the long stretches the wind becomes a problem so I’m not that confident to go fast.

Stock knobby tire has a flat U-shaped profile, so on the high speed it takes a lot of effort to carve or change direction, I’ve purchased Michelin City Grip 90/90-12 tire. It has more “pointy” profile. If that one fits, I plan to install it this week and see if that helps.

The suspension is still a bit too firm for my liking. However, I cannot complain that it doesn’t work. Once I didn’t notice a speed bump at 40 km/h and it swallowed that easily. That scared a crap out of me but it ended up well ). Once I took a trail in the jungle and one of the sections was a scetchy narrow descent with lots of rocks, roots and other obstacles, I totally expected to fall in the bushes but it was too late and too steep to stop, so I decided to just relax and accept my fate. The suspension worked well and I didn’t crash. However, I would still prefer to have a plusher ride so an upgrade shock is in my wishlist.

My longest ride so far was 67 km and I came home with 34% battery left, so I expect 90 km should be possible on this wheel.

I didn't have any problems with this wheel so far. It is a 50gb version from a 2nd batch.

Overall I’m very satisfied with v14 and plan to address few issues that I have with the wheel with some tuning parts. I will update once the upgrades are installed and tested.