1 size doesn't fit everybody

[novazeus]

this is for the manufacturers, and riders trying to be like everybody else.

i don't like spiked pedals or pads, however, i don't jump my wheels or ride in rain or snow. nor do i ride on roads with cars and trucks. i don't ride up mountain trails or in nyc traffic. i don't race on wheels. i don't ride in mud. i don't attempt to break speed records or be an influencer on youtube. i don't ride offroad trails, etc etc etc.

i'm not criticizing those that do, i'm just saying me having jump pads and spiked pedals for my road and ranch is counterproductive, but the manufacturers seem to think we are monolithic. 

for instance, if u ride terrain like @Marty Backe, u should perhaps study his gear, his wheels and riding style. if u ride in congested traffic like @houseofjob, likewise. if u plan on doing jumps like euc girl, the same. if u like riding in snow like @Josiah, learn from him.

would u ride a harley road king off road, would u ride a ktm dirtbike in nyc? it's possible, but not the best choice.

like ur mama said, if all ur friends jumped off a cliff, would u also jump?

just a side note. here, idk what the laws are where u live, but pedestrians walk facing traffic. bicycle riders ride in bike lanes next to vehicles with traffic. we are neither one of those. i rode a ten speed eons ago, and i thought riding so slow with cars zooming past me made me very uncomfortable. so i stopped riding bicycles. i think if i had to ride on roads, i'd rather face traffic, and not constantly glancing in a small mirror trying to ascertain whether the vehicle driver was gonna pass me safely or run over me because he was drunk or distracted. 

with pedestrians and bicycle riders getting killed everyday in florida, the govt should never build roads without proper sidewalks and multiuse paths. the govt is at fault. next to me there's a 451 unit apt complex that the local govt gave them their certificate of occupancy and didn't make them build a sidewalk or a multiuse path.  developers are the ones forced to do it, but the local govt was obviously asleep at the switch.

what is universal, nobody wants to burn down their house or apt complex.

dead is dead, there is no fixing dead.

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by novazeus

[mrelwood]

So, how do you suggest the manufacturers would choose the pads or padless setup and pedals for their wheels? Or do you think they should come with two sets of pedals?

[novazeus]

10 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

So, how do you suggest the manufacturers would choose the pads or padless setup and pedals for their wheels? Or do you think they should come with two sets of pedals?

offer the option. spiked or spikeless. pads or no pads. knobby or street tire. 

not brain surgery.

spiked pedals are a relatively new thing. glad they finally started putting actual rated tires on them. 9bot z10 was the first.

i'd rather them concentrate on fire safety and no electronic screw ups. maybe fix their crappy suspensions too. 

Edited February 26, 2023 by novazeus

[houseofjob]

10 hours ago, novazeus said:

like ur mama said, if all ur friends jumped off a cliff, would u also jump?

[novazeus]

so i have s22 pads that are worthless to me, v13 pads ditto, a knobby take off from the v13 because neltrek is installing the michelin street pilot 2 on mine, and probably a take off knobby from the s22 and also a jiluer tire that's going in the garbage where it belongs after i put the michelin on it. 

car manufacturers have offered options since the model t. 

just a waste of time and money. 

plus when freemotion sends me king songs slider kit, i'll have stock sliders for the garbage too. maybe they should include garbage bags. 

[novazeus]

btw, my burley cargo trailer sb here this week.

this might be a better burley for wheels.

and u definitely need lots of wheel experience on a wheel to be safe. like @Josiah!

https://burley.com/products/coho-xc

https://burley.com/products/coho-nutted-axle-adapter

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by novazeus

[Hellkitten]

I absolutely think tires, pads and pedals should have offered options. 100%

[mrelwood]

20 hours ago, novazeus said:

offer the option. spiked or spikeless. pads or no pads. knobby or street tire. 

not brain surgery.

No. But it would make 8 different products instead of one. Sounds like quite a hassle from the manufacturer’s and the distributor’s side. The distributors currently get only a few dozen units from the factory at a time. Divide that by 8 and they’d only get a few units of each version, so the version you’d want would probably be out of stock anyway.

Every car sells a gazillion times more units than an EUC, I can’t see how it could be compared. And the wait for a factory combination of features is often longer than a year. Doesn’t sound feasible in the current EUC markets to wait a year to get the version you want, when the EUC is already illegal to use publicly in most countries.

 

[Cerbera]

I think with batches this small it does make more sense to make 1 model, provide enough basics to get people going, but then make it easy for them to add aftermarket stuff. Battery options and tyre options should perhaps remain the province of good dealers.

So, Gotway could improve their game by including pre-stuck velcro on their pads and fairings (instead of the fake 3M bullshit), and choosing a decent hybrid tyre everyone would like a bit rather than deciding we all have to put up with a very tippy knobby. Their recent pedals have been excellent, and I'm glad they provided those, and they are easy for people to swap so I don't think they need to offer the option in-house. KingSong are now doing preinstalled velcro, which is a step in the right direction. Eventually one of them will design pads we want to keep you'd hope !

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Cerbera

[novazeus]

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

No. But it would make 8 different products instead of one. Sounds like quite a hassle from the manufacturer’s and the distributor’s side. The distributors currently get only a few dozen units from the factory at a time. Divide that by 8 and they’d only get a few units of each version, so the version you’d want would probably be out of stock anyway.

Every car sells a gazillion times more units than an EUC, I can’t see how it could be compared. And the wait for a factory combination of features is often longer than a year. Doesn’t sound feasible in the current EUC markets to wait a year to get the version you want, when the EUC is already illegal to use publicly in most countries.

 

seems to me, waiting several months for a wheel to get delivered, ie presale deposits, in this age of instant communication worldwide, it would be easy.

for example, i built custom on your lot homes, some were speculative homes. i did a bunch where i'd slow the construction down at frame inspection or dryway and stucco, so a buyer could still choose paint, carpet, tile, fixtures, etc etc. 

all we're talking about is pedals and tires. i'm not talking about switching out motors or suspension  like king song expects the customer to do. 

i know people almost waiting a year now. and they still don't get to choose and have a fairly hefty deposit on hold.

[Cerbera]

I think most dealers will do tyres for you if you don't want a stock one...

[mrelwood]

 

1 hour ago, novazeus said:

for example, i built custom on your lot homes, some were speculative homes. i did a bunch where i'd slow the construction down at frame inspection or dryway and stucco, so a buyer could still choose paint, carpet, tile, fixtures, etc etc.

It’s not reasonable to expect $4k EUCs to be custom built at the factory for each customer though.

1 hour ago, novazeus said:

all we're talking about is pedals and tires. i'm not talking about switching out motors or suspension  like king song expects the customer to do.

Well, it’s easier and faster to switch the motor than to swap the tire. And while you’re at it, the S22 rails are replaced with just a few bolts.

1 hour ago, novazeus said:

i know people almost waiting a year now. and they still don't get to choose and have a fairly hefty deposit on hold.

You only wait for an EUC for a year if you buy a KS in a presale well before it’s launched. For new cars, you wait 14 months just to get your choice of a color on a current standard car model. For custom built EUCs from the factory, I imagine it would be about a similar wait.

I think the only reasonable way to do it would be for the distributor to customize the wheel for you. And I think some of them already do.

[conecones]

On 2/26/2023 at 8:11 AM, novazeus said:

this is for the manufacturers, and riders trying to be like everybody else.

i don't like spiked pedals or pads, however, i don't jump my wheels or ride in rain or snow. nor do i ride on roads with cars and trucks. i don't ride up mountain trails or in nyc traffic. i don't race on wheels. i don't ride in mud. i don't attempt to break speed records or be an influencer on youtube. i don't ride offroad trails, etc etc etc.

i'm not criticizing those that do, i'm just saying me having jump pads and spiked pedals for my road and ranch is counterproductive, but the manufacturers seem to think we are monolithic. 

for instance, if u ride terrain like @Marty Backe, u should perhaps study his gear, his wheels and riding style. if u ride in congested traffic like @houseofjob, likewise. if u plan on doing jumps like euc girl, the same. if u like riding in snow like @Josiah, learn from him.

would u ride a harley road king off road, would u ride a ktm dirtbike in nyc? it's possible, but not the best choice.

like ur mama said, if all ur friends jumped off a cliff, would u also jump?

 

If there was a point being made here, I can't find it. Pads are easily removable and so are pedal spikes. What exactly is the problem?

So you get an S22 to not ride offroad trails and not do jumps. And a V13 to not go fast. You realize these are purpose built wheels?

That's like buying a top of the line Jeep Wrangler and then complaining about it coming with offroad tires, because you only intend to take it grocery shopping.

I also don't see how any of the stock pads on any wheels can be "counterproductive". The main reason people switch to custom pads is to get a tighter fit for more performance. Stock pads are all loose and should literally make no difference for your described usage case. Same goes for tires, it literally doesn't matter.

[Tawpie]

27 minutes ago, conecones said:

buying a top of the line Jeep Wrangler and then complaining about it coming with offroad tires, because you only intend to take it grocery shopping

they're good for something besides grocery shopping? Wow. You'd never know around here...

[novazeus]

20 minutes ago, conecones said:

If there was a point being made here, I can't find it. Pads are easily removable and so are pedal spikes.

how do u remove the pedal spikes? 
hopefully the v13 spikes are removable. 

my dealer is changing the tire for me but i'll have a take off spare from the v13. i have to buy an extra tire. 

pads i don't care. they can be tossed because they come "free" with the wheel.

conversely, can't spiked pedals be added?
the s18 came with anti skid tape, the s22 with spiked pedals. why?

[techyiam]

On 2/26/2023 at 5:11 AM, novazeus said:

i don't like spiked pedals or pads,

Then why did you buy a 13?

How do you plan to ride your V13?

 

[novazeus]

Just now, techyiam said:

Then why did you buy a 13?

How do you plan to ride your V13?

 

on multiuse paths but primarily on my road. same with my zo6 i bought that went 195 mph. it could still loaf down the highway. just because a wheel can go fast, or a car, or a motorcycle, doesn't mean u have to drive it that way. 

actually my advice would be not to drive a v13 fast. i like the v13 because the wiring looks tidy and hopefully will last and not burst into flames.

i like the slim profile of the v13 as well.

[Tawpie]

12 minutes ago, novazeus said:

conversely, can't spiked pedals be added?
the s18 came with anti skid tape, the s22 with spiked pedals. why?

For many riders, self included, spiked pedals were the first 'significant' innovation that allowed use of the wheel 'off-road'. You can get spiked inserts and pedals for the S18, I do highly recommend them. They reduce the tendency of a muddy boot to slip off the pedal, the sandpaper grip tape clogs instantly in the presence of mud or snow and is difficult to clean off without a source of running water.

I'm guessing they're included on new designs because they help with wet shoes when street riding and generally help keep you from slipping after hitting potholes/road seams etc. Besides, they look cool.

My little saga has pics of 'why' spikes... 

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by Tawpie

[novazeus]

Just now, Tawpie said:

For many riders, self included, spiked pedals were the first 'significant' innovation that allowed use of the wheel 'off-road'. You can get spiked inserts and pedals for the S18, I do highly recommend them. They reduce the tendency of a muddy boot to slip off the pedal, the sandpaper grip tape clogs instantly in the presence of mud or snow and is difficult to clean off without a source of running water.

that's the point i'm making. i don't live up north. it was not as hot today as yesterday here, but i'll never ride a wheel in the rain. or mud, or snow. 

it hasn't snowed in tampa for quite awhile. 

good suspension would be nice. the s18 isn't bad but it's underpowered for my pastures. and the spikes don't help out there either. wheels never had spikes before. 

i would think adding pads and spiked pedals increases the cost of the wheel. make those items optional or let the buyers buy aftermarket like most do anyway. 

kickstand is nice. i use it all the time on my s22. 

43 minutes ago, conecones said:

That's like buying a top of the line Jeep Wrangler and then complaining about it coming with offroad tires, because you only intend to take it grocery shopping.

top of the line jeep wrangler might be good for grocery shopping. mine is parked because a stick punctured the gas line that jeep thought would be clever to run the plastic fuel line underneath the chassis unprotected. using soy based insulators that are tasty to squirrels and rats is another stupid idea. 

[novazeus]

i don't like not being able to change my feet position with spiked pedals. haven't leaned how to ride on one foot yet. with anti skid tape i can. 

and my legs don't touch the wheel. so especially with knee/shin protectors pads are uncomfortable. pads are nbd. they can go in the garbage. the just add cost to the wheel. i hate waste. with anti skid tape i can reposition my feet. 

maybe wheels for up north people and wheels for people in florida. for the most part, i'd be scared of riding or storing wheels that have been abused by some of the riders i've seen. i'm more careful with my wheels. i'm glad they are so durable and they never burn up from misuse. for example, my v10f probably didn't need to be recalled because i'd never ride it in the rain, but i guess others did and they started fires.

as far as the spiked pedals, i decided last night i'll scrape up some rubber car floor mats, about the thickness of the spikes that protrude, affixed those to the pedal by marking where the spikes are and drilling holes in the mat, then silicone glue them on the peadls, then find the best anti skid i can find and stick them on the rubber. sb nice and cushy for less foot fatigue. i really like the size of the s22 pedals esp since i lowered and moved them forward. and ditching the knobby because it's an acorn picker upper, plus i know the michelin street pilot 2 will just be better traction on pavement. the knobby is ok once i ground down the center nub. if ur always offroad u probably didn't notice. 

so like if u want to get on ur wheel, u don't have to put on shoes, like if ur just practicing.

Edited February 28, 2023 by novazeus

[novazeus]

this is from the s22 manual btw.

 

[novazeus]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

Then why did you buy a 13?

How do you plan to ride your V13?

 

oh yeah, i forgot to post this sketch last night. this is exactly how i plan to use all my wheels, but primarily the v13. i'm chatting with two developers now about apts and a aclf here. i as u can see, once the multiuse bridge is built, i'll have multiuse paths connecting all my property to cypress creek towncenter in case i want to go visit.

this is why i got interested in wheels. this place will probably have 1200-1800 apts here. why i'm so fire paranoid and legislation wary. scooters, wheel, inline skates, ebikes, this place will be paradise for all if they don't get banned. there's like 25 restaurants, tiger woods popstroke just opened, main event, etc etc etc. and all easily accessible by using a wheel. no drinking and driving. plus costco, the outlet mall, anything u want. euc world!

so my use for the s22, which i didn't know it was designed solely for snow, mud, and offroad trails, is more for zipping around on pavement when it isn't raining. same for the s18 and v13. just because a wheel has suspension, doesn't mean ur the next euc girl or have to go to jump parks. suspension is nice for pavement too. why cars and jeeps have suspension. y'all should come down to tampa and get out of the cold. hvac is wonderful! it's called conditioned air. 

i just need to talk to the mall people and make sure they install good safe bike/euc racks and get locks for my wheels. the restaurants that allow Bob over there have seating where i can keep an eye on my wheels. 

be especially nice if i can do the impossible and mount this burley flatbed to one of my wheels, or the burley coho xc. be nice to be able to buy fresh food for a change. 

so yeah, there are definitely other uses for wheels other than beat the crap out of them on offroad trails, or riding thru the surf. more utilatarian. 

i might have a wheel dealership here, although the product liability isn't worth it. i've already talked to jason about it but he seems to think tuscon is better. 

check it out.

https://www.cctctampa.com/directory

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by novazeus

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, novazeus said:

hopefully the v13 spikes are removable.

I don’t think they are. But the pedal mounts should be the same as V11/V12, so you should be able to install your choice of sandpaper pedals.

2 hours ago, novazeus said:

conversely, can't spiked pedals be added?

Can’t aftermarket spikeless pedals be added?

2 hours ago, novazeus said:

the s18 came with anti skid tape, the s22 with spiked pedals. why?

Because nowadays most people want spiked hex-style pedals due to the hugely increased grip, stability, and practicality.

1 hour ago, novazeus said:

that's the point i'm making. i don't live up north.

There’s nothing wrong with customizing your wheel to your specific needs if they differ from the mainstream. All Begode wheels require hundreds of dollars in accessories and a lot of DIY before they are even ready to ride.

1 hour ago, novazeus said:

wheels never had spikes before.

They also didn’t have suspension before… Advancements are usually a good thing.

1 hour ago, novazeus said:

make those items optional or let the buyers buy aftermarket like most do anyway.

What if someone else also hates waste, and doesn’t want to pay for a second set of pedals? How should the manufacturer decide whether they should listen to you or someone else?

1 hour ago, novazeus said:

especially with knee/shin protectors pads are uncomfortable.

Then you had them positioned badly. People use pads with shin protectors all the time.

 

Anyway, now we all know how you’d like to mod your wheel. The difference is that for other people who want to mod their wheel, we only see posts on how they already did it.

[novazeus]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

I don’t think they are. But the pedal mounts should be the same as V11/V12, so you should be able to install your choice of sandpaper pedals.

Can’t aftermarket spikeless pedals be added?

Because nowadays most people want spiked hex-style pedals due to the hugely increased grip, stability, and practicality.

There’s nothing wrong with customizing your wheel to your specific needs if they differ from the mainstream. All Begode wheels require hundreds of dollars in accessories and a lot of DIY before they are even ready to ride.

They also didn’t have suspension before… Advancements are usually a good thing.

What if someone else also hates waste, and doesn’t want to pay for a second set of pedals? How should the manufacturer decide whether they should listen to you or someone else?

Then you had them positioned badly. People use pads with shin protectors all the time.

 

Anyway, now we all know how you’d like to mod your wheel. The difference is that for other people who want to mod their wheel, we only see posts on how they already did it.

the biggest gripe is no choice of tire. i'll fixed the spiked pedals. i'm not alone, @picosays pads and spiked pedals are not ur friend for one legged riding, and the better ur are at one legged riding, the smoother u will be at freemounting, or so i think.

lots of people grip or move the wheels with their legs, i suppose. my legs only barely touch the thin yoga mat on my 90 degree curve. i ride with my feet on the outside of the pedals. that's what is the most comfortable for me. 

seems like changing pedals at the vendor would be easy enough with the customer having to modify pedals if for instance, if king song made solid pedals with grip tape for the s22. not hard to screw with pedals. like i said, i lowered mine and moved the forward. the pads kingsong provided with their boomerangs are just stupid. 

i just don't understand the purpose of pads. i can go and stop just using my feet. no spikes on my surfboards. just wax. 

here's mine. i just need to fixed the pedals now. and add the impossible, the cargo trailer.

don't have to worry about somebody stealing my grizzla flow pads either.

probably take the seat off too. i'll never use that either. actually i thought it would shade the display, but i never look at that either. 

if the trolley handle locked in the upright position, that would be nice. and @Marty Backeis correct, the charge ports and power button setup sucks. one of my charge port caps is already disintegrating. 

the wheel, any wheel is gonna be useless in my pastures. there is no suspension that can handle it's irregularities i'm sure. trails, i could see, but there are no trails here. but u don't know until u try. i did, and it's horrible. so strictly multiuse pavement and the stock suspension with lots of lubricant actually is fine. the yoga mat is just to protect the wheel and to damper any wheel oscillation from pavement irregularities. 

i run the pedals hard but i did drop 5 psi on both s18 and s22 from 41 psi, more to wear down the tires. the jiluer still sucks but it is improving. not really a fan of the s18 molded in sides either. the s22 is the most comfortable now. hate the fancy leatt $299 knee braces i bought. outside of pants in winter they are probably ok, but we only have two days of cold down here. 

i'd like bigger, longer pedals on the s18, but it isn't really worth investing time and money on such a weak wheel. i'll just use it for freemounting practice. gotta fix the floppy pedals on it too after a 120 miles on it. 

 btw, jacob at neltrek evolution said the plastic tire spoons were junk, but they are cheap so i guess i'll buy metal and plastic spoons to change the tire once freemotion sends me whatever king song is sending them to replace the stock sliders. i do have terrible fine myakka sand here, so idk how the ball bearing ones will work. but i'm not going in the pastures again with any wheel. they just aren't capable. 

love the kickstand. 

not sure if the linkage bolts need replacing or not. 

never mounted a tire on anything in my life, so this will be a new experience for me. 

hey, it hasn't burned up my keter store it outside max box yet, so that's a bonus. 

battery packs haven't match since day one. 97% and 100%, but better since the bms firmware is on 2.17. not as bad as my old rip 18s, before i fixed it with tina wong and some engineer's help.

not bad for $2600. 

i'll fix the pedals tmrw. 

what is the best anti skid? with good adhesion.

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

Then you had them positioned badly. People use pads with shin protectors all the time.

pads were too thick for my riding. wasn't where they were positioned. i tried to use them just for protection but too hard and too thick. esp with the hard leatt knee/shin protectors. not much meat on my legs down there. those leatts were bruising my legs. 

keep in mind, this is shorts and t-shirt weather down here all the time. u cold climate people would die in our heat and humidity.

yeah, like my first post in this thread, this is for manufacturers, obviously my opinion, but for some reason people need to be reminded, i'd ditch the pads and the seat, and offer a street tire option to keep costs to the customer as low as possible, and sell seats and pads as aftermarket, but most would probably but grizzla pads and clark pads so it seems. 

the pedals the dealers could easily change out, and since i'm the only one on the planet wanting non spiked pedals, shouldn't be too awkward for them. the tire is kinda a big deal, but again, i've never mounted a tire before.

Edited February 28, 2023 by novazeus

[techyiam]

6 hours ago, novazeus said:

actually my advice would be not to drive a v13 fast. i like the v13 because the wiring looks tidy and hopefully will last and not burst into flames.

i like the slim profile of the v13 as well.

My bad.

I was asking in a different context.

What I am alluding to was that you won't be able to ride the V13 very well without a set of good pads.

The first time you try to ride it, you will be overwhelmed by the weight and overall size.

And the other thing is, the V13 won't stop when you lean back without pads. So you would naturally lean back more until you fall off the back.

The rotational inertia of the V13 is very high, a lot higher than even an Abrams. 

Once you have try riding a V13 without pads, you will understand.