EUC EU Insurance mandotary for wheels over 25kg + power limit removed EU-wide

[Kutvis]

We have a new law suggested, this did include some interesting and scary info.

The interesting part is the 1000W limit for wheels is removed, EU wide. Nice!

The scary part is anything over 25kg must be in insurance, but it is not possible to get one for an EUC in our country. E. They say this will change, but as it is EU-wide we can take the insurance from any country.
E. I did ask this from our government planner responsible for the change, she said the 25kg + 25kph + power limit removal is EU WIDE!!
This will take effect at the end of THIS year.

E. Insurance companies are forced to give insurance to all PEV, but I doubt it is as straight forward as this. There sure will be some limitations.

I wonder if in any EU country or overall any country got insurances available for road use? I would be interested in this even if this law wouldn't be coming.

Ps. Couldn't find any solutions by search
Pss. Finnish law.. all light drunk-scooters stay in city causing the same old carnage, but people riding to work get limitations.

 

EDIT 29.12.2023

I haven't read the chain, but as an update for the topic:

During November the insurance companies didn't have the info how to insurance us. Should ask again soon.

A few weeks a go in the news it was said the new regulation to enforce insurances is stuck, someone got an idea: "Rental companies can use under 25kg weight scooters". This is exactly what we pointed out to government team working on this subject, but I was told "we trust companies operate ethically" .

The news told it can be changed with country specific regulation, no other info on local/EU-level progress.

Edited December 29, 2023 by Kutvis

[Tawpie]

It's definitely a step—make sure it's passed! And once they're no longer illegal, someone will start offering insurance (after they figure out the actuarial numbers so they they're guaranteed a tidy profit).

[Eucner]

Not all EUC's are illegal in Finland now, just the most. The problem has been restricted speed (25 km/h) and power (1000 W). A bill is going to change power limitation to weight limitation (25 kg). Many will still have an illegal wheel. Legal wheels don't need a traffic insurance and for illegal wheels it is not possible to get one. @Kutvelo was seeking possibilities to get an insurance from abroad for illegal wheels.

[Kutvis]

9 hours ago, Eucner said:

Not all EUC's are illegal in Finland now, just the most. The problem has been restricted speed (25 km/h) and power (1000 W). A bill is going to change power limitation to weight limitation (25 kg). Many will still have an illegal wheel. Legal wheels don't need a traffic insurance and for illegal wheels it is not possible to get one. @Kutvelo was seeking possibilities to get an insurance from abroad for illegal wheels.

I was actually planning to get insurance to the specific country, not to Finland. Then I will ride my +25kg wheels in Finland and when requested I can show "yes this is insuranced", just like you can drive car registered and insuranced in other country.

I would also love to have insurance over all, never a bad thing in sports like this.

Edited February 9, 2023 by Kutvelo

[Kutvis]

With this new info I think this topic deserve a *bumb*

E. I did ask this from our government planner responsible for the change, she said the 25kg + 25kph + power limit removal is EU WIDE!!

This change will take effect at the end of this year!!

The goverment official told me all insurance companies have to change politics and give insurance to all PEV in future, but we shall see if it is so or is there some kind of limitations.

[Cerbera]

Well I suppose it's progress of a sort... I note mine would still be illegal even if we hadn't left Europe...

[techyiam]

14 hours ago, Kutvelo said:

We have a new law suggested, this did include some interesting and scary info.

The interesting part is the 1000W limit for wheels is removed, EU wide. Nice!

The scary part is anything over 25kg must be in insurance, but it is not possible to get one for an EUC in our country.

@Funky

Did you have influence on the lawmakers who changed the law from restricting power to restricting weight.? 🙂

WTF, 25kg (55 lbs.)

Guess what?  S18 makes the cut.

S18 (+ Capacitor Mod.) Totally legal in Finland. 

Edited February 9, 2023 by techyiam

[techyiam]

@mrelwood

S18 next?

A lot of wheels in Finland over 25kg is going be on fire sale.

[Kutvis]

5 minutes ago, techyiam said:

@Funky

Did you have influence on the lawmakers who changed the law from restricting power to restricting weight.? 🙂

WTF, 25kg (55 lbs.)

Guess what?  S18 makes the cut.

S18 + Capacitor Mod. Totally legal in Finland. 

Weight is not restricted, it especially says it must be insuranced and the insurance will cover whole EU! In other words this means we can take the insurance from any country as otherwise it would be discriminatory. Afterwards it is business as usual, but a bit more safe.

This might actually be a good thing.

[techyiam]

2 minutes ago, Kutvelo said:

Weight is not restricted, it especially says it must be insuranced and the insurance will cover whole EU! In other words this means we can take the insurance from any country as otherwise it would be discriminatory. Afterwards it is business as usual, but a bit more safe.

This might actually be a good thing.

You mean it is legal to buy insurance, and there are underwriters that will sell you the right insurance?

[Kutvis]

4 minutes ago, techyiam said:

You mean it is legal to buy insurance, and there are underwriters that will sell you the right insurance?

It is mandotary to buy insurance for over 25kg wheels. Our person in goverment told me the insurance companies are forced to give one.

I think there will be country specific limitations, such as Finland (we can't have road legal vehicle which can go past 25kph).
But lets say Poland decides to give insurance to all EUC, we can just buy insurance to Poland and use it in any EU country.

Edited February 9, 2023 by Kutvelo

[techyiam]

4 minutes ago, Kutvelo said:

I think there will be country specific limitations, such as us (we can't have road legal vehicle which can go past 25kph).

I see.

With the speed still capped 25 km/h, the S18 still makes the most sense.

[Kutvis]

48 minutes ago, techyiam said:

I see.

With the speed still capped 25 km/h, the S18 still makes the most sense.

Speeding tickets we can live with, one must totally fail to get it. Personally I really dislike anyone riding past me faster than 25kph if Im walking my dog.
The limit is smart, when there is nobody to see you, you won't endanger anyone else and won't get tickets.

The 1000W limit on power was way more hard to go around: Remove all markings of company manufacturing it and cover it with gorilla and other stuff to make it look like it is hold together with tape, then it can be told "1000W + 25kph DIY" + if anything happens you will get all expenses, like car cuts you down and you scratch the car => your fault, pay the car, pay the hospital, pay the fines, pay the court.
Now just need to say/show "limited + insuranced" and we are good to go

Edited February 9, 2023 by Kutvelo

[Cerbera]

Riding sensibly, as I try to do, I plan to use EUC world as one line of defence if my speeds are ever called into question (they haven't been yet). Got page after page of tours where they can see what speeds I did and where I did them. I hope that sort of evidence will eventually undermine laws based on motor limits and weight etc. We should be held accountable for our actual speed in any situation, and there should be no power or weight limits at all in that consideration because more power / weight = more safety margin in this unique class of vehicle. Of course that's the wider and steeper mountain to climb - getting EUCs recognised as being a different class to non-balancing PEVs...

Edited February 9, 2023 by Cerbera

[Funky]

58 minutes ago, techyiam said:

@Funky

Did you have influence on the lawmakers who changed the law from restricting power to restricting weight.? 🙂

WTF, 25kg (55 lbs.)

Guess what?  S18 makes the cut.

S18 (+ Capacitor Mod.) Totally legal in Finland. 

If i wanted a weight limit, i would have put 30kg.  At least they get that anything over 25kg is 2 FAST. (30kg would be better than 25kg..)

I told you all that there will be 2 categories. One with papers/registering/insurance. Other one without any of the headaches.

I still don't care what they need or not need. My wheel weights 25.5kg  That's 0.5kg over the "limit" Duck that. I will say that i changed my original tire. And on paper it's weight is 24.5kg.  

[Cerbera]

Just now, Funky said:

I still don't care what they need or not need. My wheel weights 25.5kg  That's 0.5kg over the "limit" Duck that. I will say that i changed my original tire. And on paper it's weight is 24.5kg.  

And you will smile to yourself as that sentence is read back to you in court

[Kutvis]

1 minute ago, Funky said:

If i wanted a weight limit, i would have put 30kg.  At least they get that anything over 25kg is 2 FAST. (30kg would be better than 25kg..)

I told you all that there will be 2 categories. One with papers/registering/insurance. Other one without any of the headaches.

I still don't care what they need or not need. My wheel weights 25.5kg  That's 0.5kg over the "limit" Duck that. I will say that i changed my original tire. And on paper it's weight is 24.5kg.  

I think Nylonove's pedals are going to get boost on sales as lightest on the market, Gz them!

[Funky]

7 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

And you will smile to yourself as that sentence is read back to you in court

Like i have said many times i don't ever see police.  And originally it was under the limit. So it can be talked.. It's just 0.5kg over the limit. Whoever made that limit... I don't care. 

 

You don't see police catching cars that go 2-5kph over the speed limit often do you? 

Weight limit is kinda dumb in first place.. Even wheel at 20kg weight can be made to go 60kph+ speeds. Duck weight. - You need speed limits, not weight. LOL

Edited February 9, 2023 by Funky

[techyiam]

10 minutes ago, Funky said:

And originally it was under the limit.

Exactly. I think the intent of the law is to base it on manufacturers weight.

Changing a tire usually doesn't count as a mod for example. 

[2disbetter]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

A lot of wheels in Finland over 25kg is going be on fire sale.

Why? The new law EU wide REMOVES the weight restriction but mandates insurance, which insurane companies will be forced to supply. Just like in Germany you can buy these wheels even though they are not necessarily legal. I don't think anyone will sell anything when it is about become legal? 

Edited February 9, 2023 by 2disbetter

[Paul A]

Purpose of speed limits, might be for the reduction of serious/fatal injuries when an error is made.

This video demonstrates that.

The bicycle was likely to be much lighter than a V13 (50kg), traveling at a much lower speed than 90kph.

 

If a rider is speeding......regardless of another party being at fault.....a severe penalty on the rider might be imposed.

Dawn's high speed run on the mixed use cycle path was very disturbing.

 

 

[techyiam]

4 hours ago, Kutvelo said:

Speeding tickets we can live with, one must totally fail to get it.

In Canada, it works differently. 

For example, for e-bikes, if the assisted top speed is above 32 km/h, then the e-bike is no longer exempted, and it becomes regulated by the federal government as a motorcycle. 

Since the rider doesn't have registration and insurance, the police will treat the infraction as driving an illegal vehicle. 

If the rider also happens to be speeding, then he may get a speeding ticket too.

Edited February 9, 2023 by techyiam

[techyiam]

8 minutes ago, 2disbetter said:

Why? The new law EU wide REMOVES the weight restriction but mandates insurance, which insurane companies will be forced to supply. Just like in Germany you can buy these wheels even though they are not necessarily legal. I don't think anyone will sell anything when it is about become legal? 

I am not seeing the point to ride a 25+ kg wheel when I am not allow to ride above 25 km/h. 

[2disbetter]

1 minute ago, techyiam said:

I am not seeing the point to ride a 25+ kg wheel when I am not allow to ride above 25 km/h. 

Bigger batteries (longer range), suspension (softer rides), etc. 

With insurance the speed limit limitation should be raised to 40 km/h as well. At least I would assume this. It is how scooters (gas powered) and e-scooters work here. 

Edited February 9, 2023 by 2disbetter

[Kutvis]

3 minutes ago, techyiam said:

In Canada, it works differently. 

For example, for e-bikes, if the assisted top speed is above 32 km/h, then the e-bike is no longer exempted, and it is regulated by the federal government as a motorcycle. 

Since the rider doesn't have registration and insurance, the police will treat the infraction as driving an illegal vehicle. 

If the rider also happens to be speeding, then he may get a speeding ticket too.

It is same in here, but the law enforcement have to have proof. Even if the PEV goes past 25kph the rider can just say "it is limited", the officers can take it to test and if it goes past the speed they will fine according (good luck testing EUC). Anything going past 45kph is a moped, anything past 65kph is a motorcycle, but it must be proven or the rider must admit it.