Top seven most common (absolute) beginner mistakes

[Mono]

1 hour ago, Cerbera said:

OK. Here's a few possibilities.

1. Dog barks in close proximity to you, but from the left - you instinctively turn to look, and miss a giant pothole in the path in front of you.

2. An electric car you don't hear coming pulls out a driveway you are crossing at some speed, side sledging you off your wheel and into their path. Luck alone if they stop after that before they run you over as well !

3. Chinese shoddy engineering and QC mean a motor wire chooses that moment to pop off the board. Don't laugh - my MS3 did that to me for no appreciable reason whatsoever doing the rather and easy / flat and unchallenging last 50 yards of a 7 mile round trip with no previous problems !

I am not sure I fully understand the second scenario, but I don't think any of these should or would make me faceplant at walking speed or slightly above. If the wheel unexpectedly disappears under me, if it slips or gets trapped in a pothole, I will continue walking on my feet (AKA running off), I won't start rotating full body toward the ground. Now, if my feet then slip too, say on black ice, then we are talking...

1 hour ago, Cerbera said:

My point is - it's the things you don't see coming that get you

My point though is that none of these need to "get you": any mildly advanced rider should not start full body rotating when the wheel unexpectedly slips away under them. They should instead continue walking on their feet. You may think that this body rotation is unavoidable, but it isn't. That's one of the scenarios one should not mitigate with gear but with proper training. It's a reflex one needs to acquire (it starts with keeping the knees flexible and bent), but it is a life saving reflex, maybe the life saving reflex. This ability is, I suspect, also a very good first step to be able to slide out high(er) speed crashes on the knees (as we have seen some riders do consistently) instead of planting the helmet face forward into the ground. The principle is the same: one needs to avoid any significant body rotation in the case when the wheel "disconnects" from the feet.

Edited April 28, 2023 by Mono

[woke rider]

Getting free wrist guards with the purchase of your wheel, like ewheels provides, is perhaps the kindest thing and most helpful, most useful because we are almost guaranteed to use wrist guards, whereas we hopefully never need our essential  helmets.

[Cerbera]

Just now, earthtwin said:

Getting free wrist guards with the purchase of your wheel, like ewheels provides, is perhaps the kindest thing and most helpful, most useful because we are almost guaranteed to use wrist guards, whereas we hopefully never need our essential  helmets.

Yeah, that's next level service, and a great example for the rest of them, and even manufacturers ! 

Edited April 28, 2023 by Cerbera

[Cerbera]

38 minutes ago, Mono said:

You may think that this body rotation is unavoidable, but it isn't.

I definitely accept that there are times you can 'run off' a wheel (though much less often if you are on a ludicrously high pedal wheel like mine, or anyone with locked in pads), and that having that reaction built in / instinctive could be helpful in avoiding certain types of falls - it's just not like that every time, and armour helps, whether that skillset is there or not; it's a cumulatively good thing surely ?! 

Edited April 28, 2023 by Cerbera

[mrelwood]

3 hours ago, Mono said:

It's the usual proxy we use to judge risk, because it is much easier to determine and classify than injury. Sorry if it's too extreme for you 

It’s not too extreme, but having an easy way to classify irrelevant data is still irrelevant.

3 hours ago, Mono said:

I suspect the probability for a beginner to have a life changing injury during learning is very low

Now you’re talking about a “life changing injury”. Sure, the probability is very low. But it’s still not the main reason I wear gear or why I recommend wearing gear.

3 hours ago, Mono said:

Cyclists don't get severely injured because the lose balance and crash when they learn to ride.

I commented on this earlier already. Cyclists aren’t balancing on a single point of contact on a wheel with low friction bearings. The situation is very different.

If a cyclist fails to balance ie. steer, the bicycle will fall to the side quite slowly. Learning a bicycle usually even happens at lower speeds than learning on an EUC, since you need some speed for the wheel to be stable enough. The bicycle rider puts a feet down and that’s it. A beginner on an EUC doesn’t know how to steer properly or prepare for any vertical changes on the road. And even getting off a single wheel is complicated to do in a controlled manner. I’m sure you have seen how beginners get off the wheel in all kinds of peculiar ways. Getting one feet off changes the wheel’s trajectory, and the wheel tilts the remaining leg in a way that the beginner hasn’t properly even experienced yet, let alone how to prepare it in the midst of already falling down due to loss of balance. There’s actually no similarities to bicycle learning at all.

3 hours ago, Mono said:

most of the arguments I made against wearing gear do not apply to padding up the wheel, some may even invert.

Sounds like in your eyes padding up the wheel is good, but padding up the rider is bad. I don’t even know what to say to that.

11 minutes ago, Mono said:

My point is that these should not "get you": any mildly advanced rider should not start full body rotating when the wheel unexpectedly slips away under them. They should instead continue walking on their feet.

Let me guess, you only ever accelerate and brake very calmly and slowly?

11 minutes ago, Mono said:

one needs to avoid any significant body rotation in the case when the wheel "disconnects" from the feet.

So in other words one should only accelerate slowly? Does that really sound like an advice you think people would be interested in following?

What happens if the wheel in the above photo suddenly turns off? Idling at 0mph, riding at 15mph, doesn’t matter. The wheel is free to rotate on it’s bearings, and the rider’s balance is already a moderately heavy forward lean. The effect is similar to someone pulling the carpet away from under your feet, except you are already 20% closer to hitting the ground than with the carpet when your reflexes kicks in. At which point walking it off hasn’t been an option for a while anymore.

[Cerbera]

13 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

It’s not too extreme, but having an easy way to classify irrelevant data is still irrelevant.

Now you’re talking about a “life changing injury”. Sure, the probability is very low. But it’s still not the main reason I wear gear or why I recommend wearing gear.

I commented on this earlier already. Cyclists aren’t balancing on a single point of contact on a wheel with low friction bearings. The situation is very different.

If a cyclist fails to balance ie. steer, the bicycle will fall to the side quite slowly. Learning a bicycle usually even happens at lower speeds than learning on an EUC, since you need some speed for the wheel to be stable enough. The bicycle rider puts a feet down and that’s it. A beginner on an EUC doesn’t know how to steer properly or prepare for any vertical changes on the road. And even getting off a single wheel is complicated to do in a controlled manner. I’m sure you have seen how beginners get off the wheel in all kinds of peculiar ways. Getting one feet off changes the wheel’s trajectory, and the wheel tilts the remaining leg in a way that the beginner hasn’t properly even experienced yet, let alone how to prepare it in the midst of already falling down due to loss of balance. There’s actually no similarities to bicycle learning at all.

Sounds like in your eyes padding up the wheel is good, but padding up the rider is bad. I don’t even know what to say to that.

Let me guess, you only ever accelerate and brake very calmly and slowly?

So in other words one should only accelerate slowly? Does that really sound like an advice you think people would be interested in following?

What happens if the wheel in the above photo suddenly turns off? Idling at 0mph, riding at 15mph, doesn’t matter. The wheel is free to rotate on it’s bearings, and the rider’s balance is already a moderately heavy forward lean. The effect is similar to someone pulling the carpet away from under your feet, except you are already 20% closer to hitting the ground than with the carpet when your reflexes kicks in. At which point walking it off hasn’t been an option for a while anymore.

This is SUCH a good post    Somehow Marty still manages to look suitably heroic, even without the cape !

Edited April 28, 2023 by Cerbera

[Mono]

2 hours ago, earthtwin said:

Getting free wrist guards with the purchase of your wheel, like ewheels provides, is perhaps the kindest thing and most helpful, most useful because we are almost guaranteed to use wrist guards, whereas we hopefully never need our essential  helmets.

The story behind it is funny too: IIRC, Jason overleaned a wheel while studying its speeds limits (very stupid) and since then himself and everyone else ordering the wheel has a couple of wristguards. He only had abrasions, but these can be extremely annoying for weeks.

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Now you’re talking about a “life changing injury”. Sure, the probability is very low. But it’s still not the main reason I wear gear or why I recommend wearing gear.

That's what is usually used as argument and I was in the impression you did too. If we talk about inconvenience injuries, I don't think most readers understood that this is what you were talking about. Why should I care or make any strong recommendations to anyone for this or even waste my time posting here...

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

The bicycle rider puts a feet down and that’s it.

Surprising that you think a fall from a bicycle is easier to handle than a "fall from" an EUC. Jason and I certainly disagree with this position. My personal experience: I was riding the bicycle for a few decades and had a fall 1-2 times per year. I can only remember a single time where I landed on my feet. Since I grew out of making all the EUC beginner mistakes, I think the "fall" frequence on the EUC is similar, but I land on my feet more than 50% of the time.

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Let me guess, you only ever accelerate and brake very calmly and slowly?

You guessed wrong 

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

So in other words one should only accelerate slowly?

No.

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

What happens if the wheel in the above photo suddenly turns off?

You are probably screwed given this locked in "knee situation". That's why one should rather not accelerate like in the picture, see above (fourth post) or 

There are many ways to accelerate fast and some are safer than others. It has been discussed in the forum a couple of times already.

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

The effect is similar to someone pulling the carpet away from under your feet, except you are already 20% closer to hitting the ground than with the carpet when your reflexes kicks in. At which point walking it off hasn’t been an option for a while anymore.

I agree, it's not at all obvious that this situation can be mitigated. But it can with comparatively little training, I insist . It's also not terribly difficult to understand why this is so in the end. That's kinda the sad part of this story, so many unnecessary faceplants.

Edited April 28, 2023 by Mono

[The Brahan Seer]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

What happens if the wheel in the above photo suddenly turns off? Idling at 0mph,

I would hope you would instinctively put one leg forward on the ground and be able to steady yourself, at 15Mph I think if you are pretty fit you may be able to run it out but would be 50/50 whether you could do it without falling.

I appreciate it could happen too quickly though. I would have to try it out and see.

Power pads certainly make things trickier too.

[Cerbera]

11 minutes ago, Mono said:

agree, it's not at all obvious that this situation can be mitigated. But it can with comparatively little training, I insist . It's also not terribly difficult to understand why this is so in the end. That's kinda the sad part of this story, so many unnecessary faceplants.

but even if we are accelerating the other way, ie doing it with our shins / knees into the pads without doing the forward lean, our overall centre of mass is still very unlikely to be precisely centred at the time of a cutout; in fact it is guaranteed not to be if you are in motion otherwise you wouldn't be going foward ! Meaning that the tip forward (or back) will be the same, no matter how you are off centre - you always will be enough to let the wheel just rotate you in that direction, and often before you have even registered that anything is wrong.

Edited April 28, 2023 by Cerbera

[Mono]

1 hour ago, Cerbera said:

but even if we are accelerating the other way, ie doing it with our shins / knees into the pads without doing the forward lean, our overall centre of mass is still very unlikely to be precisely centred

I don't know what that means.

1 hour ago, Cerbera said:

at the time of a cutout, meaning that the tip forward (or back) will be the same, no matter how you are off centre - you always will be enough to let the wheel just rotate you in that direction.

Of course the CoG of the rider is in front of the CoG of the wheel. That does not imply that a forward rotation of the rider is forced when the wheel (or its forward or counter push) disappears. The only thing which seems to be forced is that the rider will start to accelerate down with acceleration speed g.

Edited April 28, 2023 by Mono

[Cerbera]

1 minute ago, Mono said:

I don't know what that means.

It's the only other way I can see of accelerating without either bending forward from the waist or planking from the ankles ! Instead, I lean forward into my knees (pressing into the forward power pads, but with a completely straight body above the waist, hence 'no-lean'. I use that mostly, and the straight planking to do it faster and more obviously. I try not to bend from the waist much at all, to avoid over-lean potential.

Edited April 28, 2023 by Cerbera

[woke rider]

1 hour ago, Cerbera said:

Somehow Marty still manages to look suitably heroic

lol, Marty should charge royalties for being an EUC Model. GQ

[Cerbera]

Just now, earthtwin said:

lol, Marty should charge royalties for being an EUC Model. GQ

That photo is positively crying out for a quality caption 

[The Brahan Seer]

This whole topic has really got me thinking and I realise I don't actually know what will happen in a cut-out as I haven't had one yet.

My assumptions are based only on guessing from previous experience and how I think my body would respond.

I have clipped pedals when learning in the beginning that threw me to the ground very quickly and was very grateful for the wrist guards I had.

I have rolled out falls on grass due to the terrain putting me off balance when first learning.

I have slipped out on my side practicing slaloms on a gravelly bit of pavement losing my footing and balance.

I have slammed into a concrete brick with my knee when i suffered an instant tear puncture on rough ground.

Plus numerous other mishaps and little falls.

Maybe on hindsight gear is certainly necessary. I fortunately was geared up every time above.

 

[woke rider]

4 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

That photo is positively crying out for a quality caption 

it's funny because this discussion is about safety, and then there's Marty Backe without a shred of gear on looking like George Clooney

[Cerbera]

Just now, earthtwin said:

it's funny because this discussion is about safety, and then there's Marty Backe without a shred of gear on looking like George Clooney

Which is, in its own unintentional way, a bit disingenuous and false-flaggy, because actually Marty is one of the best geared up people I know of, and is almost always photo'd with most of it on - this seems to be one of the very few occasions where he isn't in any !

Perhaps the caption should be 'Ghosts have stolen my armour, but I remain unflustered' ! 

Edited April 28, 2023 by Cerbera

[woke rider]

I'm trying to come up with my own personal suggestions for learning:

1) Put a lot of thought into where you want to start. I recommend playground parallel bars.

2) Gear up with wrist-guards and a helmet of your choosing.

3) Decide on a special buddy to invite to share a special experience with you. If your buddy or date wants to have a special experience too, then let him or her have their turn while you record them.

4) Practice only for 20 minutes while your buddy records the entire session for you. Have a successful first experience.

5) Go home and treat yourself with the reward of your choice. Something wholesome. Try to associate new good habbits with your new skill. I learned how to ride while I was in a rehab, so I associate my EUC skills with my recovery.

6) Watch the video that your buddy took of you and write a journal entry about your first successful experience.

7) Sleep on it, plan your next session in the morning, and have a rewarding 2nd experience. 

Edited April 28, 2023 by earthtwin
new direction of post

[mrelwood]

15 hours ago, Mono said:

Of course the CoG of the rider is in front of the CoG of the wheel. That does not imply that a forward rotation of the rider is forced when the wheel (or its forward or counter push) disappears.

It actually does. As gravity pulls you down and the part of you that’s keeping you up is behind your CoG, that does create a rotating force. Human reaction time isn’t all that fast, and by the time you start to move a muscle, you have been rotating for a while already. And since any mass tries to continue its trajectory, the rotation continues.

 Even better (= worse) if the wheel really turns off, since it will slide away from under you at the same time, making the rotation even faster.

 Or if a mosfet fries and the wheel locks up at speed, it will also pull your legs away from under you.

Or if you are starting to accelerate and your CoG is moving away from the wheel, that’s an additional rotational force.

 It’s common for people who have experienced a cutout to say that before they even realized that anything was wrong, they had already slammed onto the ground. There was no time at all to start running or walking, or even to get your hands in front of you to soften the impact. A situation like that can’t be mitigated with practice.

[Unventor]

On 4/27/2023 at 12:11 AM, mrelwood said:

The forum member @Unventor rides to work with office work clothes, he just wears motorcycle pants and a jacket on top. (And of course a helmet.) No changes at the wardrobe.

This is mostly correct. 

Sometimes I might have a shirt in my backpack. 

However a few unfortunately falls all for different circumstances, my suit about do not have a fully working goretex membrane anymore. I can still use if it doesn't rain but I decided to go all in learning from my previous MC suits. 

Got myself a Klim Badlands Pro A3 2023 version. It if far from cheap. Cost me 2500€ even after 10% event discount. Most would not buy this and veiw it way too expensive. I will make the discussion short on this, I didn't look at the cost I looked what it do for me and how I ride and what value it brings to my daily life. @mrelwoodlaughed at it at first but once we walked over my decision and arguments he saw my point, yet he is unlikely to but same suit. Every one have their life and situation and economy so it will be a case by case decision with very different result. 

This is the new suit. I am just getting used to it. There are pros and cons to it. But overall I am very happy with my purchase despite the cost. 

And yes there are very good reason this cost x2 to the Kilm Carlsbad suit I used before. 

[Mono]

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

It actually does. As gravity pulls you down and the part of you that’s keeping you up is behind your CoG, that does create a rotating force.

Removing the motor push of the wheel from the equation does not create a rotation. The remaining force then is gravity which pulls the body down, it doesn't rotate the body. We need an additional force to create a rotation, for example, sticking out a foot touching the (moving) ground or locking the feet into a wheel with a blocked motor thereby deceleration the feet faster than the body. This is what needs to be prevented (by all means).

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Even better (= worse) if the wheel really turns off, since it will slide away from under you at the same time, making the rotation even faster.

Right, the rider has to let go of the wheel when the wheel decelerates faster than the rider.

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Or if a mosfet fries and the wheel locks up at speed, it will also pull your legs away from under you.

Right, it "tries to". Only if the rider answers (or pushes against) the force that pulls the feet behind with a stiff knee, the riders body will start rotating and is doomed. That's why the knees need to be flexible and responsive (as opposed to stiff). Mike thinks that it doesn't even need to be reflective, I am not sure of that because of the extremely short response times.

I have been riding straight into a curb which I didn't see (during night) and the wheel got caught by the curb and stuck. Yet I, myself, was just moving on and walking straight away with as little rotation as not really affecting me or pulling me down. I was surprised myself, but I can't argue with the evidence. The good aspect in this scenario is that the wheel is not in the way of the feet, it is too far behind to worry about. I did this even twice  and it didn't even feel particularly scary. In this scenario, a mindset with the desire to stay on the wheel by all means is bound to fail, the mindset has to be that one will let go any time (if necessary, and it will be fine too).

With power pads, one needs to make sure that the toes are not stuck under the pads. IIRC, I have seen riders with pads going down on Youtube without entering into (uncontrolled) rotation but sliding off on the knees, and it seemed not just by chance, of course hard to say from a distance.

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Or if you are starting to accelerate and your CoG is moving away from the wheel, that’s an additional rotational force.

With the "correct" acceleration movement, the body describes a curve forward and down in space, but it does not rotate in or by itself. (Some riders do enter a rotation to accelerate, I usually don't). I am almost certain, we can find overleans from the stillstand on Youtube where the rider just walks away. I believe I have done it once or twice too, but it's not necessarily a remarkable event, so I can't precisely remember.

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

It’s common for people who have experienced a cutout to say that before they even realized that anything was wrong, they had already slammed onto the ground.

True, and the phrase "running off" is common too, so what? I suspect it's common that riders do not ride with an adequate body provision which would let them get away in these situations (flexible and bent enough knees). Most of them probably have, as you have, the same wrong conception of how rotation is inevitable when the wheel locks, and hope that gear will save the day.

In my earlier days, before I had understood the importance of flexible knees, I also "faceplanted" at least twice (face was fine). In these days I also strongly believed that a pedal clip is unrecoverable, is an inevitable faceplant. I am not convinced of that anymore at all.

Just to be clear, the discussion started with the question whether faceplants at walking speed are inevitable (for which I haven't yet seen a convincing example of) and all my personal experience from running off various adverse events is from below 20km/h. I suspect above 25km/h-or-so the "running" part has to be replaced by, for example, knee sliding (as I have seen examples of on YouTube etc), but I am out for this part to provide empirical evidence for you guys. The physics though hold irrespectively of speed 

 

[Mono]

These pictures look like a change of wardrobe to me. Irrespectively of word games, putting on this dress for riding from A to B is not everyones cup of tea. The cycling success story of The Netherlands (and in other countries too) IMHO crucially required that such kind of outfit is not necessary for hopping on the bicycle. That is, most people, as myself, won't accept this change of wardrobe for a simple individual transport trip.

Edited April 29, 2023 by Mono

[Unventor]

22 hours ago, mrelwood said:

What happens if the wheel in the above photo suddenly turns off? Idling at 0mph, riding at 15mph, doesn’t matter. The wheel is free to rotate on it’s bearings, and the rider’s balance is already a moderately heavy forward lean. The effect is similar to someone pulling the carpet away from under your feet, except you are already 20% closer to hitting the ground than with the carpet when your reflexes kicks in. At which point walking it off hasn’t been an option for a while anymore.

This is very much what happened in my last 2 major crashed and why I had not been riding from September to February this winter season and why I got my mc suit dameges. 

The first situation I had just swapped the drive board on a V11 (I burt the first one because I mounted motor wires out of sunc, all on me). The new board died after 500-600m. Felt fine at first the when I hit 30km/h and road work with sandy/sharp gravel it just died on me. I had no time to react beside bending in my knees so I hit ground on my knee pads first. This scraped up the goretex knee pad zone a bit this was in the spring if I recall right. 

The second crash came much later in September. I were riding in modest rain in the pitch dark at 7 am after handing my car into service. On my way home slaloming the rain pits my wheel felt very odd out of the blue. At first I thought it had died again. But later after recovering from knee to belly landing once again at 30km/h I saw the tire sat odd on the rim. I serviced it here in January and it turns out the valve had dislodged from the tube causing instant deflation. 

Both these incidents came without any prior notice and despite what some argue you can train for this, in my opinion and expireance you have limited options and time to do anything. 

Once the incident like these starts then there were no saving the situation. I had very very limited control or reaction option. What I now can do is closing my fist. Tring to move arms so it is the bigger paddings that is first impact zone but don't count on you have the control and reaction to escape what is ongoing at this point. 

People can debate different opinions. But in all the crashes I have had debates help me not at all in that situation. That is facts. What has helped me is upgrading my protection gear and use it. And reconsider the risk I take and what speed I ride at. This is hard earned advice I choose to share. You can see some of the result in post made with graphics here on this forum. 

 

[Cerbera]

21 minutes ago, Mono said:

Removing the motor push of the wheel from the equation does not create a rotation.

If that is the case, then you should be able to stand on your wheel with it powered off, surely ? It is true that the motor cut isn't CAUSING the subsequent rotation, but it being cut-out means nothing is preventing it. From which we can surmise that without motor power, rotation is inevitable. The only thing that decides if you rotate too or not is if you got off it before the motor cut out !

Edited April 29, 2023 by Cerbera

[Unventor]

30 minutes ago, Mono said:

These pictures look like a change of wardrobe to me. Irrespectively of word games, putting on this dress for riding from A to B is not everyones cup of tea.

If you are referring to my mc suit use, I guess in some way you are right. 

This is how I view it though. It is a transformation. And it help me to clear my mind and shift focus from work or other things into focus on riding EUC in commute traffic. It is part of why I enjoy so much riding that I spend money on new gear. It is only a 5-6min ride home or 1.75km. Yet I enjoy putting on the suit. I used my car once to my new job. That added 20min+ to my commute because here traffic is in my area. 

On pleasure rides it is also what is a conversation starter. People see this as a serious thing vs just a silly toy. Once I answer the standard range/speed question most go woha that is amazing... But that is dangerous. My reply, maybe yes there is a risk to it. That is what I prepare for just like you have airbag and seat belts in the car. I wear a good suit and great helmet. But I still feel very free especially compared to driving a car. 

Update: link to my crash history. 

At very slow speeds I mostly step of. But once in the way I ride I ride in the 20-40km/h speeds. Majority at 30-35km/h or average speed of 25km/h. 

Edited April 29, 2023 by Unventor

[Mono]

13 hours ago, Cerbera said:

If that is the case, then you should be able to stand on your wheel with it powered off, surely ?

No, I have no idea why one would be an implication of the other. EDIT: I see the disconnect between the models now: you seem to assume that wheel and rider are tightly connected. Then, of course, the wheel-rider combo is tippling over when the wheel stops pushing. I assume that wheel and rider are not connected together in any way (apart from the rider standing on the plates). Now, if the wheel stops abruptly, the rider immediately separates from the wheel by continuing moving forward.

13 hours ago, Cerbera said:

It is true that the motor cut isn't CAUSING the subsequent rotation, but it being cut-out means nothing is preventing it. From which we can surmise that without motor power, rotation is inevitable. The only thing that decides if you rotate too or not is if you got off it before the motor cut out !

When a body is in linear motion, like the rider riding an EUC at constant speed, then removing a force acting on it does not make it rotate.

What happens: the body starts falling, then, when the feet touch ground or remain in stiff contact with the wheel which is on the ground (the knees are stiff), only then the body will start rotating. If the knees don't counter the force from below, then it will not.

So yes, if the wheel stops pushing, the rider has to inevitable bring one of their feet in front and on the spot start "walking" instead of waiting until the hip hits ground.

Edited April 30, 2023 by Mono