Sherman-S 3600wh: 100V, 20", suspension, 97lb

[UPONIT]

12 hours ago, KiwiMark said:

Well, there are covered parking garages around, but I'd need to ride to get to them. I sold my car last year because I didn't need it, I mainly use my EUC to get around the city. For out-of-town travel I'd use my motorcycle. For longer trips I'd drive the motorhome. My motorhome is a 1994 Winnebago Vectra, which is 11m (34ft) long, so not so convenient for driving to a covered parking garage.  I also struggle to think of any covered parking garages around the city that wouldn't be quite busy.

Unfortunately I just have to hope for a fine afternoon so that I can get out and enjoy my new wheel.

Is Uber/taxi/bus out of the question? I hate seeing people's plans thwarted by @#$#@ nature!! lol

Good luck!

Edited January 30, 2023 by UPONIT

[KiwiMark]

1 minute ago, UPONIT said:

Is Uber/taxi/bus out of the question? I hate seeing people's plans thwarted by @#$#@ nature!! lol

Good luck!

Can't afford an Uber or taxi - I spend all my money on EUCs and EUC accessories! Buses are far to people-y for me. Then there is the issue that all the covered parking that I can think of are quite busy with cars driving around and a lot of parked cars, not really the environment I want to be riding a new wheel in.

There's a reason why I have PEVs to get about the city, using cars or buses kinda defeats the purpose somewhat. But I'm hopeful that the weather won't suck as bad as the meteorologists are claiming, today for example I went on a short ride on my V12HT (now over 500km, after owning it for 2.5 weeks) with rain early and then no rain for most of the day.

[KiwiMark]

So, my plan was to jump on the motorbike and ride over to my mother's place (I use that as my mailing address) and grab the Sherman S, borrow her car and bring it to my RV.  I checked tracking, it hasn't been delivered yet, it has gone from Auckland to the Hamilton Depot early this morning and not shown as being out with the courier. I live in Hamilton! I ring them - "can I collect my package from your depot?". So I went for a drive in my 34ft RV and picked up the package from the depot, I literally picked it up - ~50kg box, I can carry that, but I did feel the weight.

I've had a ride around the car park here, dropped off a small curb, out the driveway, around and back in the other driveway. OMG!!!! The suspension is SOOOO nice!!!! On my other wheels there is a physical jarring over any bump, on the Sherman S . . . it's just heaven!

OK, enough of that . . . I've just spent a heap of time carefully covering the sides in Velcro. It took a while because I used my more expensive Velcro, the Extreme Outdoor Velcro - which I've only found in 1" wide. So I have both sides covered to a little below where the pedals get to when they are folded.  I have my Grizzla Flow pads on.  I have also put on the bigger seat and side padding. The seat that comes with the wheel is a bit of a joke IMO, the better LK seat is a lot nicer.  I have never ridden seated, so I gave it a try in the car park, felt OK but I wasn't leaning forward enough and I rolled to a stop - I'll have to practise the seated riding, might be nice to give the feet a break on long rides. I'm not sure about the idea of riding seated without suspension, that might be too jarring - but with suspension it should be good on reasonably smooth ground.

The wheel had 1.6km on the clock when I first turned it on, now it has 6.4km on the clock. I was taking it easy, didn't see more than 44kph on the display while riding it around the car park. Now that I have the pads on and had a little ride around, I'd like to go for a bit more of a ride . . . and the rain is starting. Tomorrow is forecast to be horrible, also - I got a text from the boss asking if I can work - I guess I'll be getting rather wet tomorrow.  The day after might not be so bad for the weather, I'll see if it is fine enough after work to allow a ride. Saturday is supposed to be dry, if it is I'll be going for a longer ride that day! 

My first impressions after just under 5km of riding around a car park: I can definitely feel the extra weight, it has a heavier feel than my RS or V12HT. I absolutely LOVE the suspension, just on factory defaults for preload, rebound and compression but it feels so good that I'm not bothered about adjusting anything right now. My first quick ride was before putting the pads on, it is rideable without pads but accelerates slower than my RS or V12HT, you really need to get pads on this wheel quick smart. The pedals are fine, especially if you adjust your pads to lock your feet in fairly well so they won't move when riding over bumps. I'll still order the NyloNove pedals as soon as they are available.

Oh, and the trolley handle: I don't know what everyone is complaining about. It seems perfectly useable to me. Sure, it flexes a bit - but it doesn't take much force to roll a powered up wheel so the trolley handle works well enough IMO.  It's not like I'll do a huge amount of trolleying - I prefer to ride.

[Hellkitten]

@KiwiMark congratulations on finally getting your new wheel! Keep the updates coming………

[KiwiMark]

OK, the rain stopped for a little while, I now have 26km on my wheel. I didn't really want to stop riding, but the weather was still threatening to rain and I have to get up early and go to work tomorrow. If I didn't have work tomorrow and the weather was fine then I'd have kept riding until the battery was getting down too low.

It feels pretty stable on the straight and pretty stable when cornering at 40-50kph. I could have gone faster, but the road was coming to an end. I wasn't happy with the rubbish state of the paths & roads around here, but now I'm thinking that they aren't so bad. I think I'm OK with the stock pedals until I can get better ones, they work all right, even if they could be better. I don't think that I have anything negative at all to say about the wheel, but if you buy one and previously have only ridden EUCs that weigh around RS or V12HT weight (or less) then you will notice the extra weight. But honestly, the weight doesn't bother me and the wheel feels great to ride. I like the ride, I like the stability, I like the turning, I like the tyre, it is easy enough to ride slow, it is easy enough to ride fast, the suspension feels so damn good, the screen is easy to see. I'm 100% happy with my purchase!

[Paradox]

7 hours ago, KiwiMark said:

I like the stability, I like the turning, I like the tyre, it is easy enough to ride slow, it is easy enough to ride fast, the suspension feels so damn good, the screen is easy to see. I'm 100% happy with my purchase!

Which shock and what is your riding weight?

[KiwiMark]

1 minute ago, Paradox said:

Which shock and what is your riding weight?

I went with the 58lb shock. I've never weighed myself with my riding gear on. My naked weight is currently 76kg.

[Xeranos]

10 hours ago, KiwiMark said:

So, my plan was to jump on the motorbike and ride over to my mother's place (I use that as my mailing address) and grab the Sherman S, borrow her car and bring it to my RV.  I checked tracking, it hasn't been delivered yet, it has gone from Auckland to the Hamilton Depot early this morning and not shown as being out with the courier. I live in Hamilton! I ring them - "can I collect my package from your depot?". So I went for a drive in my 34ft RV and picked up the package from the depot, I literally picked it up - ~50kg box, I can carry that, but I did feel the weight.

I've had a ride around the car park here, dropped off a small curb, out the driveway, around and back in the other driveway. OMG!!!! The suspension is SOOOO nice!!!! On my other wheels there is a physical jarring over any bump, on the Sherman S . . . it's just heaven!

OK, enough of that . . . I've just spent a heap of time carefully covering the sides in Velcro. It took a while because I used my more expensive Velcro, the Extreme Outdoor Velcro - which I've only found in 1" wide. So I have both sides covered to a little below where the pedals get to when they are folded.  I have my Grizzla Flow pads on.  I have also put on the bigger seat and side padding. The seat that comes with the wheel is a bit of a joke IMO, the better LK seat is a lot nicer.  I have never ridden seated, so I gave it a try in the car park, felt OK but I wasn't leaning forward enough and I rolled to a stop - I'll have to practise the seated riding, might be nice to give the feet a break on long rides. I'm not sure about the idea of riding seated without suspension, that might be too jarring - but with suspension it should be good on reasonably smooth ground.

The wheel had 1.6km on the clock when I first turned it on, now it has 6.4km on the clock. I was taking it easy, didn't see more than 44kph on the display while riding it around the car park. Now that I have the pads on and had a little ride around, I'd like to go for a bit more of a ride . . . and the rain is starting. Tomorrow is forecast to be horrible, also - I got a text from the boss asking if I can work - I guess I'll be getting rather wet tomorrow.  The day after might not be so bad for the weather, I'll see if it is fine enough after work to allow a ride. Saturday is supposed to be dry, if it is I'll be going for a longer ride that day! 

My first impressions after just under 5km of riding around a car park: I can definitely feel the extra weight, it has a heavier feel than my RS or V12HT. I absolutely LOVE the suspension, just on factory defaults for preload, rebound and compression but it feels so good that I'm not bothered about adjusting anything right now. My first quick ride was before putting the pads on, it is rideable without pads but accelerates slower than my RS or V12HT, you really need to get pads on this wheel quick smart. The pedals are fine, especially if you adjust your pads to lock your feet in fairly well so they won't move when riding over bumps. I'll still order the NyloNove pedals as soon as they are available.

Oh, and the trolley handle: I don't know what everyone is complaining about. It seems perfectly useable to me. Sure, it flexes a bit - but it doesn't take much force to roll a powered up wheel so the trolley handle works well enough IMO.  It's not like I'll do a huge amount of trolleying - I prefer to ride.

Mine arrived today. I have to admit that my first impression was pretty bad. Rusty pedal screws, the buzzer (AKA beeper) beeped once and then went silent forever (it's just broken), I also noticed a strange misalignment between the shell and the motor axle. Pics below.

Since I'm still waiting for my Grizzla pads, I decided to put on the default ones and give it a go. I did about 20 miles, reaching over 70 km/h (45 mph). I was currently riding on my Sherman MAX, so I didn't feel that much of a difference in power, but as I mentioned I was using the stock pads, so I'll withhold the judgment. The suspension works great! This is my first wheel with the suspension and so far it is an absolute blast. I have not felt or experienced any inconvenience from this misalignment I spoke of; no wobbles, no carving or taking turn problems. The wheel is quite stable. Although, I am curious - has anyone noticed a similar misalignment on the Sherman S?

BTW SS, "eyes" give away my initial feelings, but they fade quickly after a great ride.

 

[wstuart]

57 minutes ago, Xeranos said:

Mine arrived today. I have to admit that my first impression was pretty bad. Rusty pedal screws, the buzzer (AKA beeper) beeped once and then went silent forever (it's just broken), I also noticed a strange misalignment between the shell and the motor axle. Pics below.

Since I'm still waiting for my Grizzla pads, I decided to put on the default ones and give it a go. I did about 20 miles, reaching over 70 km/h (45 mph). I was currently riding on my Sherman MAX, so I didn't feel that much of a difference in power, but as I mentioned I was using the stock pads, so I'll withhold the judgment. The suspension works great! This is my first wheel with the suspension and so far it is an absolute blast. I have not felt or experienced any inconvenience from this misalignment I spoke of; no wobbles, no carving or taking turn problems. The wheel is quite stable. Although, I am curious - has anyone noticed a similar misalignment on the Sherman S?

BTW SS, "eyes" give away my initial feelings, but they fade quickly after a great ride.

 

Yeah my wheel is misaligned like yours.  I'm at 300 miles and it hasn't gotten better or worse.  

[EMA]

1 hour ago, Xeranos said:

Mine arrived today. I have to admit that my first impression was pretty bad. Rusty pedal screws, the buzzer (AKA beeper) beeped once and then went silent forever (it's just broken), I also noticed a strange misalignment between the shell and the motor axle. Pics below.

Since I'm still waiting for my Grizzla pads, I decided to put on the default ones and give it a go. I did about 20 miles, reaching over 70 km/h (45 mph). I was currently riding on my Sherman MAX, so I didn't feel that much of a difference in power, but as I mentioned I was using the stock pads, so I'll withhold the judgment. The suspension works great! This is my first wheel with the suspension and so far it is an absolute blast. I have not felt or experienced any inconvenience from this misalignment I spoke of; no wobbles, no carving or taking turn problems. The wheel is quite stable. Although, I am curious - has anyone noticed a similar misalignment on the Sherman S?

BTW SS, "eyes" give away my initial feelings, but they fade quickly after a great ride.

 

 

58 minutes ago, wstuart said:

Yeah my wheel is misaligned like yours.  I'm at 300 miles and it hasn't gotten better or worse.  

that means the overall structure is flexy, not the best tbh

[Xeranos]

4 minutes ago, EMA said:

 

that means the overall structure is flexy, not the best tbh

What do you mean by saying flexy? @wstuart confirmed that it is the same in his wheel, and I have seen other SS with the same feature. The structure does not change over time - it comes that way from the manufacturer.

[EMA]

36 minutes ago, Xeranos said:

What do you mean by saying flexy? @wstuart confirmed that it is the same in his wheel, and I have seen other SS with the same feature. The structure does not change over time - it comes that way from the manufacturer.

it's not a feature  and it's not an issue of a specific wheel, it's a design issue caused by the missing bridge of the suspension.
Once you lay the wheel on a side, one side compress for the weight while the other don't
 

Edited January 31, 2023 by EMA

[Steve Evans]

4 hours ago, Xeranos said:

Mine arrived today. I have to admit that my first impression was pretty bad. Rusty pedal screws, the buzzer (AKA beeper) beeped once and then went silent forever (it's just broken), I also noticed a strange misalignment between the shell and the motor axle. Pics below.

Since I'm still waiting for my Grizzla pads, I decided to put on the default ones and give it a go. I did about 20 miles, reaching over 70 km/h (45 mph). I was currently riding on my Sherman MAX, so I didn't feel that much of a difference in power, but as I mentioned I was using the stock pads, so I'll withhold the judgment. The suspension works great! This is my first wheel with the suspension and so far it is an absolute blast. I have not felt or experienced any inconvenience from this misalignment I spoke of; no wobbles, no carving or taking turn problems. The wheel is quite stable. Although, I am curious - has anyone noticed a similar misalignment on the Sherman S?

BTW SS, "eyes" give away my initial feelings, but they fade quickly after a great ride.

 

its not the wheel that's misaligned, its just the mudguard. mine is like that too. no change in it over 300miles.

just ignore it.

steve

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Steve Evans

[Paul D]

Any suggestions for riding around St. George and Lake Mead areas?  I’m leaving the cold for a bit so I can ride my SS. Planning on putting many miles on it. 

[Xeranos]

36 minutes ago, Steve Evans said:

its not the wheel that's misaligned, its just the mudguard. mine is like that too. no change in it over 300miles.

just ignore it.

steve

 

I would not be so sure. It's the same thing in front, near the bottom. I even tried to put fingers between those spaces and on one side (right) the gap is evidently bigger.

[Steve Evans]

35 minutes ago, Xeranos said:

I would not be so sure. It's the same thing in front, near the bottom. I even tried to put fingers between those spaces and on one side (right) the gap is evidently bigger.

maybe yours is a different situation. in mine the wheel is aligned with the shell. but the mudguard (front and back) are misaligned with both shell and the wheel.

in my case it does not affect anything

good luck,

steve

 

[wstuart]

5 hours ago, EMA said:

it's not a feature  and it's not an issue of a specific wheel, it's a design issue caused by the missing bridge of the suspension.
Once you lay the wheel on a side, one side compress for the weight while the other don't
 

I really don't think this has anything to do with a missing bridge or flex.  I've owned 10 eucs and almost all have had a wheel that isn't perfectly centered in the shell (including my Sherman max).  In fact I'm looking at my V8s right now and it's tire is about 1.5mm closer to one side than the other.

That's why I didn't sweat it when my Sherman S came "misaligned".

Edited January 31, 2023 by wstuart

[Paul D]

I got the hulaj market suspension adjustment gizmos for the SS so I don’t have to carry a screwdriver around with me. I wouldn’t want to carry one around in case I crash. 
 

I’ll put up some pics and videos of my SS vacation riding in the desert west if folks are interested. 

[KiwiMark]

1 hour ago, Paul D said:

I got the hulaj market suspension adjustment gizmos for the SS so I don’t have to carry a screwdriver around with me. I wouldn’t want to carry one around in case I crash. 

How often do you adjust that suspension? I haven't touched mine yet, at some point I should play around with the settings and see how it feels with more/less rebound & compression damping. For now I just want some reasonable weather so I can go out and ride.

[Paul D]

6 minutes ago, KiwiMark said:

How often do you adjust that suspension? I haven't touched mine yet, at some point I should play around with the settings and see how it feels with more/less rebound & compression damping. For now I just want some reasonable weather so I can go out and ride.

I only have 150 miles on the wheel so far. If it’s anything like mountain biking, I’ll adjust some each ride depending on the surface conditions. 
 

I hope to have 5 to to 600 miles of experience after my EUC vacation. 
 

I’ll post some updates here. 

[mrelwood]

There was again discussion in another thread about whether the ShermS suspension is hydraulic or not. Pointing them here.

 

ShermS has two springs, one in each leg. Instead of a combined compression and rebound oil damper like we see in all other EUCs (except V11), the ShermS has two separate dampers, one for compression and one for rebound, each in their own leg.

 Both sides have an adjustment for “Spring preload”, and they are equipped with either 58 or 62 lbs springs:
https://a.aliexpress.com/_m03WhJc

When comparing air shocks to any other type, we are comparing the lift force mechanisms. Because that’s all that the air does in an air shock, to provide lift force. The damping mechanism is usually identical to the other common lift force alternative, a coil spring.

 In an actual hydraulic suspension, the lift force is provided by an electronic high pressure pump and a permanently pressurized gas membrane. The system is very complicated and expensive. We won’t see those systems in an EUC for at least 10 years, probably never.

In ShermS, S22, and some user installed mods on other wheels the lift force is provided by a coil spring (or two). Hiding the coil inside the ShermS suspension tube doesn’t make it any more hydraulic than the coil-over on the S22.

 The V13 has two air springs that provide the lift force, and a separate combined oil filled compression-rebound damping mechanism on either side. Parts that perform comparable functions to the ShermS suspension, only laid out very differently.

 The V11 is an outlier though, as it only has two air springs and no damping mechanisms at all.

 

TL,DR: The ShermS suspension is not any more hydraulic than any other EUC suspension (except V11).

[KiwiMark]

Totally agree, the Sherman S is the first wheel with the fork style suspension, but it isn't hydraulic. The Sherman S has spring shocks with oil dampening - not the same thing.

[KiwiMark]

OK, so the weather was rubbish today, raining on & off all morning and afternoon. But then it fined up, so I went for an evening ride, went about 36km - about a medium length ride for me.  I've now got 63km on the wheel and the battery is around 50% - I haven't charged it yet. My other wheels would be in need of charging by now, I certainly notice a big difference with the 3,600Wh battery.

After a decent ride: I'm finding myself quite comfortable riding this wheel. When I first powered it up and had a little ride around the car park, I noticed how much heavier it felt than my other wheels. That extra weight seems to have disappeared, it doesn't feel heavy anymore. On my ride there were a few places where I needed to do a tight (nearly 180 deg) turn, this seems about as easy on the SS as on my RS or V12HT. Carving, turning, accelerating & braking all feel about as easy as on my other wheels - this thing is a real pleasure to ride and hasn't really taken much to get used to it.

I would unscrew the pedal length adjustment screws to see if the screws or rods are rusted, but I honestly don't care if they are. As soon as I can order the NyloNove pedals, I will. As long as the factory pedals last until aftermarket pedals arrive, it's all good.

Looking at the wheel compared to the body, yep, it is closer on one side than the other. I think this is pretty normal for EUCs and I don't think there is any need to be concerned about that. The proof is in the pudding - or in this case the proof is in the riding and it rides fine. I'll see how quickly I can get 1,000km onto this wheel - I'm not expecting any issues doing this.

[InfiniteWheelie]

@mrelwood Are you sure there's a spring in each leg? I was under the impression that one leg had a spring for compression, and the other just did the damping. 

[EMA]

16 minutes ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

@mrelwood Are you sure there's a spring in each leg? I was under the impression that one leg had a spring for compression, and the other just did the damping. 

sure, the preload spring is in both legs. the hydraulic dampening system is different rebound/compression.

in a few words it's a coil spring