2.12 firmware serious safety issue!

[mikko]

...might not want to risk sticking fingers in a spinning wheel while lifting it though 🙄

[mikko]

Just tested with my 16S that it is possible to get it to a near stop from an almost free spin just by tilting back and forth enough, and then easing back to level gradually. No "no overspeed kill" problem with my wheel but since I do have X on order...  And no this does not fix a broken firmware, but if you find yourself with a free spinning wheel that wont stop:

1. Lift up and hold level
2. Support from back or front and tilt back and forth enough to find the angle (tiltback angle) where you can feel torque change, that's the "setpoint"
3. Jiggle back and forth around that point and ease to level & a complete stop

Or just tilt to the side as mentioned earlier in the thread, if that system isn't broken too

Maybe practice outdoors 😝

Should I cancel my order and switch brands?

[Funky]

Simply don't update the dam thing.. I'm still running 2.03 version. Why fix something that isn't broken..

What does the update give anyways...? If i knew what it "updates" then i would do it. Otherwise it's pointless.

KS doesn't even say - what the new update give over older one..

Even if you want to update just so you are one latest "best" version.. I would update only a 1 year old version.  (I at least know that 1 year version is "tested". Never go to the latest released update - it may brick your wheel.)

Edited June 25, 2022 by Funky

[mikko]

Wonder what fw the new wheels ship with? Won't make sense to downgrade them either if there are hw changes.

Must be one hell of a job to maintain and test firmwares for all the different hw revisions. Not that that'd be an acceptable excuse to NOT do it...

[Funky]

2 hours ago, mikko said:

Wonder what fw the new wheels ship with? Won't make sense to downgrade them either if there are hw changes.

Must be one hell of a job to maintain and test firmwares for all the different hw revisions. Not that that'd be an acceptable excuse to NOT do it...

Like they test something.. "WE" are the testers. They simply "fix" issues that we report.

[FinRider]

On 6/25/2022 at 5:42 PM, Funky said:

Like they test something.. "WE" are the testers. They simply "fix" issues that we report.

This is not uncommon practice. I work in the medical imaging field and even though we have very rigorous testing procedures some "bugs" are always reported by our users after new firmware releases. The most challenging issue to handle is the difference in hardware generations. Sometimes it is impossible to test, which is why the proper way of releases is to lock it to certain HW revisions, which would make a lot of older customers dissatisfied as they do not get the new features associated with the new firmware.

In this intance I believe KS did a knee-jerk reaction and deleted the firmware, re-tested it to the best of their abilities and re-issued the release. They should have re-issued it as a 2.13 though...

The biggest challenge for these chinese manufacturers seem to be clear communications. Proper release notes etc. Heck, we all know that there will be known issues, but for transparency just list them, then the consumer will be more tolerant and accept the deficiency knowing that it is a known issue that (hopefully) someone is looking into.

[Funky]

17 minutes ago, FinRider said:

This is not uncommon practice. I work in the medical imaging field and even though we have very rigorous testing procedures some "bugs" are always reported by our users after new firmware releases. The most challenging issue to handle is the difference in hardware generations. Sometimes it is impossible to test, which is why the proper way of releases is to lock it to certain HW revisions, which would make a lot of older customers dissatisfied as they do not get the new features associated with the new firmware.

In this intance I believe KS did a knee-jerk reaction and deleted the firmware, re-tested it to the best of their abilities and re-issued the release. They should have re-issued it as a 2.13 though...

The biggest challenge for these chinese manufacturers seem to be clear communications. Proper release notes etc. Heck, we all know that there will be known issues, but for transparency just list them, then the consumer will be more tolerant and accept the deficiency knowing that it is a known issue that (hopefully) someone is looking into.

Yeah my wheel works fine on 2.03 version - why would i update it? (If i don't even know what i'm "updating")

By updating and getting "new" firmware i risk my wheel get ducked up.. No thanks.

It would be great if we "knew" what we are getting with the update. Otherwise it completely useless - only thing i know by updating, i risk my wheel get ducked. 

Worst case scenario: The "new" firmware bricks my motherboard, or i get a sudden faceplant while riding at 30mph - because of the "new" firmware.

Edited June 29, 2022 by Funky

[FinRider]

14 minutes ago, Funky said:

Yeah my wheel works fine on 2.03 version - why would i update it? (If i don't even know what i'm "updating")

By updating and getting "new" firmware i risk my wheel get ducked up.. No thanks.

It would be great if we "knew" what we are getting with the update. Otherwise it completely useless - only thing i know by updating, i risk my wheel get ducked. 

Worst case scenario: The "new" firmware bricks my motherboard, or i get a sudden faceplant while riding at 30mph - because of the "new" firmware.

Yeah. I do the same. I believe I am on 2.06 on mine... and no need to update. The only "issue" I have is that the BT module appears to stay on after charging the wheel. Power cycling the wheel after full charge stops this phantom drain.... something I am used to by now and never forget and in all honesty is only a really small nuisance.

[Funky]

38 minutes ago, FinRider said:

Yeah. I do the same. I believe I am on 2.06 on mine... and no need to update. The only "issue" I have is that the BT module appears to stay on after charging the wheel. Power cycling the wheel after full charge stops this phantom drain.... something I am used to by now and never forget and in all honesty is only a really small nuisance.

Mine keeps beeping those 6 fully charged beeps. First time it beeps i disconnect charger, if i don't power cycle - it will beep after 2-3hrs again. At least once that happened. Simple power cycle is easy. And worth doing even if you don't need to. Doh before i started to power cycle i didn't see any "vampiric" drain. Same 84.5V next morning.

Should try some day again to see if it will beep again 2-4hrs later, if i don't power cycle.

 

It's funny how exactly same wheel - has it's own personality. One will beep at full charge, other is simply shy and silent. Third has some quirk while riding. 4rth is very fragile and will crack easily(He need some milk) 5th is dead on arrival. 6th is little bit spicy boy and catches on fire. Gotta love them.  

Edited June 29, 2022 by Funky

[redsnapper]

1 hour ago, Funky said:

Yeah my wheel works fine on 2.03 version - why would i update it? (If i don't even know what i'm "updating")

By updating and getting "new" firmware i risk my wheel get ducked up.. No thanks.

It would be great if we "knew" what we are getting with the update. Otherwise it completely useless - only thing i know by updating, i risk my wheel get ducked. 

Worst case scenario: The "new" firmware bricks my motherboard, or i get a sudden faceplant while riding at 30mph - because of the "new" firmware.

I never ran updates on any of my wheels for the same reason - fear of bricking the wheel with very little op to get support once bricked. In normal software update process you have option to boot device into safe mode for redo etc. but the EUC firmware is much less sophisticated (must have a routine that branches early into update in order to avoid bricking). Still probs not many wheels getting bricked on update and keeping old fware in place means not getting tweaks to wheel performance etc that the manufacturers have added that likely enhance the wheel... I have 2xv5 - one running old fware and one running newer (as came with wheel) and I don't like the newer version ride (dips in turns etc..). Don't think they allow you to rollback to previous updates though...

[Funky]

1 minute ago, redsnapper said:

Don't think they allow you to rollback to previous updates though...

Yup as mine came with 2.03 i can't go lower than that. Can't go 2.01 2.00 1.XX

[plentora]

Any news on this? My bike firmware model is KS-18LH and serial KS18L4W..... Does this bike use the STM-clone microcontroller, any ideas?

[plentora]

Kingsong suggest I should install 2.18 to fix this problem. I think it is only available in SoftTune.

Any insight on this? Is it safe to install? Seems like some beta version as it is not in the "official" app..

[mikko]

Is this related? Edit: Nevermind, cpu error in my head 😆

 

Edited July 28, 2022 by mikko

[Circuitmage]

 

Yeah...been more than year since I tried to update mine. Not going to. Works fine and can't risk it.

 

[Tawpie]

On 7/25/2022 at 8:37 AM, plentora said:

Kingsong suggest I should install 2.18 to fix this problem. I think it is only available in SoftTune.

Any insight on this? Is it safe to install? Seems like some beta version as it is not in the "official" app..

I'll look at my apps to see what's available for my 16x... but after I had the 2.12 problem I reverted to 2.09 before it disappeared.

2.12 didn't have any issues unless you had it up in the air and accidentally hit the power button. Otherwise it was just fine so as long as you either don't do that, or if you remember that you have to use your knee to tilt it sideways to make it stop should it get into the strange mode.

[plentora]

Yeah my wheel works fine on 2.12. I would prefer downgrade rather than be beta tester for Kingsong and get more troubles. No thanks, I'll just stick to 2.12 and only pick up the wheel while it is turned off. No stand either ..

[Celt26]

I've been running 2.18 on my 18 xl for a couple days and I've taken it on some decently long rides 10 + miles and had no issues. I lifted and did a spin test just to make sure it would cut off as normal and it did. So yeah so far so good, hopefully stays like that :).

[plentora]

1 hour ago, Celt26 said:

I've been running 2.18 on my 18 xl for a couple days and I've taken it on some decently long rides 10 + miles and had no issues. I lifted and did a spin test just to make sure it would cut off as normal and it did. So yeah so far so good, hopefully stays like that :).

Thanks for reporting! Maybe I will consider now ..

 

[plentora]

I've also updated 2.18 to my 18xl - it is now available in the basic KingSong app (no need for SoftTune). Seems to work just fine. I've used it for two days and maybe 20-30km. I didn't dare to test the spin test though :D

 

[bcarp]

Just coming onto this firmware upgrade now. I’ve been thinking whether I should update my firmware for a couple of year from the 1.07 that it came with. The only serious issue I’ve had with this firmware version is that when it is unplugged from the charger, the device stays turned on despite looking like it is turned off and drains the battery. To get around this, when the charger is unplugged, I need to manually power the wheel on and then back off again.

For the last couple of years, Darknessbot and official Kong Song app for iOS have said no firmware available. That is still the case. But SoftTuner gives me the option of updating to 2.12, which sounds like a bad idea from this thread.

Can anyone give me reasons why I should or should not update from 1.07 please?

Edit: Sorry, should have said this is a 16X.

Edited August 25, 2022 by bcarp
Model added

[sidderke]

I upgraded to 2.12 on my 18XL. Do have the feeling the handle detects me lifting it up more reliably but maybe that’s too early to tell. 
 

EDIT: I meant 2.18

Edited August 26, 2022 by sidderke

[plentora]

All I can say is that 2.12 is not the firmware you want to upgrade to.

I'm still running on 2.18 and it works fine, no troubles.

[Tawpie]

4 hours ago, bcarp said:

Can anyone give me reasons why I should or should not update from 1.07 please?

Why you shouldn't:

If you're ok with the way the wheel works, why take the chance? You might not like something that 2.xx does and there's no going back.

2.09 did have an issue where only the KS app would unlock a locked wheel, EUCW and DB couldn't do it. I don't use the lock feature so it doesn't bother me and I haven't bothered to see if it's been fixed. If you don't use the app's "lock" feature, you won't be affected. I do have a passcode set to keep fellow group riders from connecting to my wheel and that works fine.

Why you should:

I however, routinely upgrade (at some peril) because there must be some solid reason KS felt it was worth dedicating resources to a firmware upgrade—their change log is useless to us so we're very blind. But they didn't spend the money on the upgrade without justification.

I never ran 1.0x, my wheel is newer and came with 2.02. I do hear that there were considerable improvements to how the wheel 'feels', but I can't speak to that from personal experience. If you can get 2.02, it's perfectly fine.

I am now at 2.09 on my 16XS.LR. I was at 2.12 and ran into the won't-stop-in-the-air issue and downgraded back to 2.09 before they took that option away. Since then they've updated 2.12 without changing the version number, but now I'm "once bitten, twice shy" about that version number.

Edited August 25, 2022 by Tawpie

[bcarp]

13 hours ago, Tawpie said:

Since then they've updated 2.12 without changing the version number, but now I'm "once bitten, twice shy" about that version number

Thanks for your comments. The main issue I've had is the problem with battery being chewed up when charging stops. So, If I use a timer to estimate a charge to 80% battery, when the timer cuts the power to the charger, then the wheel will be down to, who knows, 70? 60? 50? by the time I get to it. This is apparently fixed on the newer firmwares.

Are we sure the 2.12 wheel spin issue has been fixed in the new 2.12 versions? If so, then I'll bite the bullet & see if Soft tuner can update. I have no idea by Darknessbot & KingSong apps are telling me no updates available.