2.12 firmware serious safety issue!

[Magovec]

I can confirm the problem with the free spin which cannot be stopped. I did a test today just to see if I am affected and yes when it spins at max speed over 50 km it cannot stop. The only way is to lean over the cut off angle.
 

On the other hand I have 2.12 for 2 weeks and have 200km on it without real problem so far. Hopefully this is a bit artificial as it happens only if the weel goes beyond 50kmh which in real condition can happen only as free spin.

 

But still the serious issue which needs to be fixed ASAP.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Magovec

[Triexy]

Hmm my KS18xl was like that since I got it i thought its normal Oo

[Triexy]

Yes the app tells me few days ago new update but I didnt do an update, 1 week ago my wheel was on a eucstand and I turned it on. The Wheel speed up I picked it up and it goes up to the limit and tells me please decelerate and didnt turn off I was turn it up and down so i bring it down to the ground to stop it. Its an KS 18xl with 2200 watt it can goes up to the limit and didnt turn off the charge was 70% my Software Version is 2.08 Model Name KS 18LH

Edited April 15, 2022 by Triexy

[Funky]

20 minutes ago, Triexy said:

Yes the app tells me few days ago new update but I didnt do an update, 1 week ago my wheel was on a eucstand and I turned it on. The Wheel speed up I picked it up and it goes up to the limit and tells me please decelerate and didnt turn off I was turn it up and down so i bring it down to the ground to stop it. Its an KS 18xl with 2200 watt it can goes up to the limit and didnt turn off the charge was 70% my Software Version is 2.08 Model Name KS 18LH

Well normally when it goes full speed (free spin) it says "Please Decelerate" them pedal tilt-back happens and motor shuts off.. Leaning it sideways or power off/on engages the motor again.

If it doesn't power off at full speed (free spin) - something wrong.

[Triexy]

15 minutes ago, Funky said:

Well normally when it goes full speed (free spin) it says "Please Decelerate" them pedal tilt-back happens and motor shuts off.. Leaning it sideways or power off/on engages the motor again.

If it doesn't power off at full speed (free spin) - something wrong.

It stays on 50kmh maybe thats why

[Aztek]

Had the same issue with older firmware on 16xs. Had to drop it on the side or lean it back quite a lot by puting my knee under it to make it stop. It was scary the first time - turning full speed, beeping and never stopping.

No such issue with latest or previous firmware on s18. Gotta be 16x(s) specific issue. Since then I never lift 16xs without hearing the beep first.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Aztek

[Joe82]

unfortunately i installed firmware 2.12 on my 16x… now i can't downgrade to 2.09 anymore (which was perfect for me).  I tried with euc world (which does not give me the availability of old firmware) and SoftTuner (which only gives me an upgrade to the same 2.12).  can anyone help me please @Robse  @Seba

[Tawpie]

14 minutes ago, Joe82 said:

SoftTuner (which only gives me an upgrade to the same 2.12)

SoftTuner _should_ give you options to select any firmware... I haven't looked at it in a while though. I'll peek at it this evening (day job etc. etc.)

[Joe82]

in the section "firmware upgrade" and "firmware downgrade" euc world give me "error download firmware" it seems that it does not recognize 2.12 installed and cannot downgrade ... there is a way to force the downgrade or manually load the firmware bin file 2.09?

[Robse]

1 hour ago, Joe82 said:

unfortunately i installed firmware 2.12 on my 16x… now i can't downgrade to 2.09 anymore (which was perfect for me).  I tried with euc world (which does not give me the availability of old firmware) and SoftTuner (which only gives me an upgrade to the same 2.12).  can anyone help me please @Robse  @Seba

Maybe if you send an email to Kingsong (info@szkingsong.com) and explain to
them that you are having problems and would like to downgrade firmware, then
they might create a login for you in Softtuner.
(They will ask you for wheel serial number and motor serial number )
And then I'm almost sure you can downgrade the firmware. 

[Joe82]

30 minutes ago, Robse said:

Maybe if you send an email to Kingsong (info@szkingsong.com) and explain to
them that you are having problems and would like to downgrade firmware, then
they might create a login for you in Softtuner.
(They will ask you for wheel serial number and motor serial number )
And then I'm almost sure you can downgrade the firmware. 

I’ll try. Thanks 

[Tawpie]

Hmmm. The new SoftTuner indeed doesn't let you choose to downgrade. Personally I think that's a step back...

Interestingly though, 2.12 was last updated 29 March 2022 at 22:23:52, so the version currently available is newer than what I had installed when I put 2.12 on my 16XS and had the problem.

I wonder if they fixed it?

But I do wish they'd still allow downgrading firmware. Maybe they felt they needed to take that away to ensure that nobody could create an S20 ever again.

[Joe82]

4 hours ago, Tawpie said:

Hmmm. The new SoftTuner indeed doesn't let you choose to downgrade. Personally I think that's a step back...

Interestingly though, 2.12 was last updated 29 March 2022 at 22:23:52, so the version currently available is newer than what I had installed when I put 2.12 on my 16XS and had the problem.

I wonder if they fixed it?

But I do wish they'd still allow downgrading firmware. Maybe they felt they needed to take that away to ensure that nobody could create an S20 ever again.

I have emailed Kingsong, waiting for them to respond.  isn't there a way to force downgrades via euc Word?

[Chriull]

11 minutes ago, Joe82 said:

I have emailed Kingsong, waiting for them to respond.  isn't there a way to force downgrades via euc Word?

if   @Seba has the according firmwares hosted on his server, EUC World is able to downgrade.

Of course, if nothing has changed inbetween with KS firmware update procedure, so that this is not anymore possible (?for newer wheels?)?

14 minutes ago, Joe82 said:

I have emailed Kingsong, waiting for them to respond.

BTW - your reseller should have a login for the KS softtuner app, so he is able to maintain KS wheels!

[Joe82]

34 minutes ago, Chriull said:

if   @Seba has the according firmwares hosted on his server, EUC World is able to downgrade.

Of course, if nothing has changed inbetween with KS firmware update procedure, so that this is not anymore possible (?for newer wheels?)?

BTW - your reseller should have a login for the KS softtuner app, so he is able to maintain KS wheels!

I bought my wheel two years ago from a private individual who used it little, so I don't have a reference reseller in Italy

[Seba]

The problem with downgrades is that recent mainboards no longer use STM32 microcontrollers from ST Semiconductors; instead, they use GD32 microcontrollers from GigaDevice. As GD32 is not 100 % compatible with STM32, older firmware versions are not supported by new mainboards. Downgrading new boards to a firmware versions older than 2.09 may soft-brick the wheel, so I advise to not downgrade firmware on newer wheels. I wrote "soft-bricking" because it's a reversible state, but it requires KS SoftTuner to unbrick the wheel. I plan to add some safety measures to EUC World to prevent this situation, but I need some more data. To prevent such problems, I disabled downgrade for wheels that use GD32 chips in newer boards.

[Tawpie]

@Joe82... since you're stuck at 2.12, maybe you should try to install the 29 March version (SoftTuner allows that) and test to see if they fixed the issue... do it outside and practice tilting the wheel sideways—it's the only way to get it to stop if the overspeed shutdown is still broken.

I'd like to know—I ran 2.12 without issue until I accidentally turned the wheel on while it was in its stand. And I'm ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN I must have "ADC sample just and support batvol manu just". I know I can't live without it.  I downgraded (before it became impossible) after my free spin incident but had no other reason to do so.

Edited May 5, 2022 by Tawpie

[Joe82]

4 hours ago, Seba said:

The problem with downgrades is that recent mainboards no longer use STM32 microcontrollers from ST Semiconductors; instead, they use GD32 microcontrollers from GigaDevice. As GD32 is not 100 % compatible with STM32, older firmware versions are not supported by new mainboards. Downgrading new boards to a firmware versions older than 2.09 may soft-brick the wheel, so I advise to not downgrade firmware on newer wheels. I wrote "soft-bricking" because it's a reversible state, but it requires KS SoftTuner to unbrick the wheel. I plan to add some safety measures to EUC World to prevent this situation, but I need some more data. To prevent such problems, I disabled downgrade for wheels that use GD32 chips in newer boards.

my ks16x is produced in 2019/06, so I think it is unlikely that it has GD32 ... can you help me force the installation of 2.09 via EUC World ... please

Edited May 5, 2022 by Joe82

[Joe82]

3 hours ago, Tawpie said:

@Joe82... since you're stuck at 2.12, maybe you should try to install the 29 March version (SoftTuner allows that) and test to see if they fixed the issue... do it outside and practice tilting the wheel sideways—it's the only way to get it to stop if the overspeed shutdown is still broken.

I'd like to know—I ran 2.12 without issue until I accidentally turned the wheel on while it was in its stand. And I'm ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN I must have "ADC sample just and support batvol manu just". I know I can't live without it.  I downgraded (before it became impossible) after my free spin incident but had no other reason to do so.

do you know a way to install an old version of Softtuner on iphone?  I think it is impossible from the AppStore?

[Tawpie]

9 minutes ago, Joe82 said:

do you know a way to install an old version of Softtuner on iphone?

I would say to try to restore from an old backup of the phone, but I don't think that'll work.

These days, an iPhone backup is pretty much just a list of the installed apps and when you restore from backup the phone goes to the app store and redownloads the apps in the list. In the olden days, a backup was an actual copy of your phone and took a very long time to do, but I'm pretty sure that's no longer possible. Google might know of a way, but off the top of my head I don't think you can get a previous version.

[Tawpie]

The other challenge is that SoftTuner gets the list of available firmware (and the firmware image) from KS's server... if they removed 2.09 from their server then @Seba might be your only hope.

[Joe82]

9 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

The other challenge is that SoftTuner gets the list of available firmware (and the firmware image) from KS's server... if they removed 2.09 from their server then @Seba might be your only hope.

I think that @Seba is my only hope…  

[Funky]

On 5/6/2022 at 1:27 AM, Joe82 said:

I think that @Seba is my only hope…  

We need the true, the only hero! @Seba Whit his powerful, almighty technologysie, sciencesie wizardly goodness.  

Edited May 6, 2022 by Funky
seance & science - to me it's the same. (English is hard xD) We don't want to contact the dead here, my bad.

[Joe82]

Seems that no one can help me to solve this problem… ks softuner  support do not answer, I wrote them about a week ago with the serial of the ks 16x and the motor… but nothing

[mikko]

If you pick up a wheel and let it get up to the tiltback speed, that'd mean the angle setpoint it tries to get to will be at the tiltback angle, which will only make it spin faster and get up to free spin speed very fast if held level? And when at free spin, just holding the wheel level or even at a slight forward angle will not do anything to slow it down?

So to stop the free spin you'd have to tilt the wheel back and over the tiltback angle to get it to try and not fall over backwards, and to decelerate? That's why if you pick up a wheel and it starts spinning, and you don't stop it right away, then it is nearly impossible to get it to stop. Right? Or did anyone try and lift the "front" of the wheel up enough to get over the tiltback angle?

How tilted will it get anyway if the wheel is at free spin? I'd guess seriously tilted