First impressions of the EUC market from a non-driver...

[sidderke]

So let me explain. I have a Ninebot Max, electric scooter. I love it. I never really liked biking and I don't have a driver's license, so I adore what this thing has done for my mobility, getting around town and cities. Lately I have been more and more interested in EUC's, because they seem even more portable (love the trolley handles) and you have your hands free. The bigger wheel maybe being better at minor imperfections or cobble stones than the small wheels as well. I've never been a speed devil, skater, or anything, so the risk-factor of EUC's (or perceived risk factor) has always frightened me. I've never liked extreme sports (or any sports for that matter)

Lately I've been thinking again about trying it. The possible advantages keep me interested and I know a lot of people told me when I got the Ninebot "aren't those things dangerous?". After almost a year, I can say: if I ride it like I used to ride my bike, being watchful of pedestrians, pot holes, slowing down on busy places, etc etc, there is not a lot more safety risk than the bike. I only fell once, and it was a very deep pothole I hadn't seen. So I guess if you ride your EUC conservatively and defensively it's maybe not as bad as people think. 

I know 1 person who has a wheel (V10f) and maybe one of these days/weeks I'm gonna try it out. There are also one shop in my country that says they rent them out for a week, but it's far away and they haven't gotten back to me about the details yet. So I hope one of these weeks to get a few days of trying it and seeing how it feels. I already downloaded a lot of tutorials, and I'm not counting on getting it right in the first hours. (I also don't have particularly good balance, so I'm not sure the whole thing is for me - that's why I rather try before spending a lot of money)

Some first impressions of a non-rider:

- You seem to have a nice forum here with a lot of great information. Thanks for that! I already spend a lot of time reading and learning.

- The market for available dealers looks a lot smaller than with electric scooters (somewhat normal, it has a higher barrier for entry and where electric scooters are getting to be very popular in my country, I barely have seen EUC's). Prices are also a lot more expensive than I remembered (I'm in Europe, don't want to buy on Ali-express, although even there prices seem expensive. I want to buy in a place with a proper warranty and service.) 

- I'm a bit puzzled by the market (my main reason for this post). If I look at the timeline, it seems like in 2016 there were a big amount of wheels released by all the big companies, and after that there was a big drop-off every year. Besides that, I've also noticed that a lot of the new wheels are all focused on crazy power and speed (Sherman, V12) and less on the commuting factor (which is what got me interested in the first place). It seems like so much of the attention is going to the power and speeds, and that all the other wheels (InMotion V8(f)/V10(f), Kingsong 16S/18XL) are all already something like 3 years old at this point and haven't been actively developed. That whole portion of the market doesn't seem very active. Is that wrong of me to think? As someone who is not interested in crazy speeds or torque, but I do want safety, comfort features and range (this makes it difficult... that's why I picked the Ninebot Max, and that's why for a first wheel, I'm thinking of a V10f and sometimes my mind even goes to an 18XL), there is way less (and older) models to pick from, especially when compared to the electric scooter market. Again, this is somewhat to be expected because of the higher barrier of entry with EUC's but I was a bit surprised. It also seems like there are only 3 companies in the whole market. A lot of others quit. In that way it's a bit of a weird first impression of the market, which I wanted to share and maybe get some feedback on. 

Anyway, thank you for reading, and kind regards,

[.....]

I think it IS a smaller market than some are expecting. The companies are chasing where the money is, and it seems that 'bigger, badder, faster' is in demand nowdays. And freaking scooters. I suspect we havent seen any MAJOR releases for the basic commuter, as resources are slim and companies are focusing on NEW designs (suspension) for the riders. Of course, some say the suspension wheel IS a great commuter.  Well, the Ks18 series kind of just hit the mark for what tech is available atm. Same with the v10. Just as Honda did when they found a winning seller, there's no reason to screw with the design much. I dont even think they have come down in price much yet. It kind of indicates that people are still buying them, if they still offer and don't need reduce price.

Euc riding doesnt have to be all that dangerous. Yes, its a little more dangerous than a scooter, but its more about rider awareness and choices than anything. An euc doesnt have much redundancy, so we have to be mindful that something can happen at any time, thru NO fault of our own. Depending on how fast and where you ride, will change the outcome of course. Wearing gear is not a bad idea at all. For the above reasons mentioned.

If you can make a day trip to go visit someone to loan and teach you to ride a bit, it'll be worth your time. You can definitely learn on your own, but I can see how a helping hand could cut the initial learning time down a LOT. It doesnt take long to go from intimidated to intrigued to joy.

Edited June 21, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Kekafuch]

Ninebot Max for me was one year ago in June 2020. I am now on my third EUC and first ebike. Max has few hundred kms. EUC combined 4000km. Few hundred on the ebike. 
 

I feel ebike is good for performance and safety. EUC just wins for convenience and fun riding. It is more dangerous cause of bumps, reliance on self balance electronics.  It takes a while to develop ability to ride tight lines. Observation is similar to bicycle but less ability to react to sudden emergency maneuvers like braking. For me, EUC requires a happy mood and not being rushed.  EUC on a vetted path with good weather and leisurely pace is a dream. For pure commuting where there’s some surprises and weather , I would choose bicycle. 
 

Bigger wheel accelerates much the same as a smaller wheel. It just has more top speed and more range. My Sherman feels slower than V10 from 0-15kmh. It is so much more stable 20-45kmh and feels safer doing traffic and moving aggressively. V10 is only slightly more nimble and feels stable 20-35kmh. I don’t feel like pushing it that hard at all. I guess the V10 is slightly better going slow but not by much. It is much easier to carry and pack into a car. 

[UniVehje]

51 minutes ago, sidderke said:

I'm a bit puzzled by the market (my main reason for this post). If I look at the timeline, it seems like in 2016 there were a big amount of wheels released by all the big companies, and after that there was a big drop-off every year. Besides that, I've also noticed that a lot of the new wheels are all focused on crazy power and speed (Sherman, V12) and less on the commuting factor (which is what got me interested in the first place). It seems like so much of the attention is going to the power and speeds, and that all the other wheels (InMotion V8(f)/V10(f), Kingsong 16S/18XL) are all already something like 3 years old at this point and haven't been actively developed. That whole portion of the market doesn't seem very active. Is that wrong of me to think? As someone who is not interested in crazy speeds or torque, but I do want safety, comfort features and range (this makes it difficult... that's why I picked the Ninebot Max, and that's why for a first wheel, I'm thinking of a V10f and sometimes my mind even goes to an 18XL), there is way less (and older) models to pick from, especially when compared to the electric scooter market. Again, this is somewhat to be expected because of the higher barrier of entry with EUC's but I was a bit surprised. It also seems like there are only 3 companies in the whole market. A lot of others quit. In that way it's a bit of a weird first impression of the market, which I wanted to share and maybe get some feedback on. 

Anyway, thank you for reading, and kind regards,

You have observed well. That is pretty much how the market is right now. There are only four active manufacturers and last 2-3 years they all have been competing in the big wheel and performance category. 

However, there are some good wheels introduced 2-3 years ago that are still completely valid options. It might seem like they haven't been developed but they have become more reliable and refined. For example I used to own a V10F from the first batch. Two years later my spouse bought another 2020 model and it feels much better to ride and is clearly better made. And it's still a very good wheel for the purpose. Same goes for 18XL, which I also rode for a year. Nothing wrong with it if you don't need to ride 50+ km/h. It's a very reliable wheel now. 16X is also a great commuter, I just bought one. Then you have the V11 and S18. V12 can be ridden at 30 km/h also. V8 was just last year updated with F model and now recently with V8S model. That is also a really nice commuter. It is very light and easy to live with. Very good and affordable option for shorter commuting at 25-30 km/h speeds. 

There aren't that much development in the newer models apart from speed. They have better headlamps now but otherwise those older models don't really need to be updated. Apart from pure power and speed, the biggest development has been suspension. I'm sure at least two companies are actively developing next suspension models. 

[sidderke]

18 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

V8 was just last year updated with F model and now recently with V8S model.

Ow, I didn't learn yet about the V8S, very interesting. The V8 looks like it has a great handle and everyone seems to love it except for its range (and maybe top speed, but that's of less a concern to me - I still love my Ninebot Max which is not a speed demon either)

Would be great if the V10 would also get a battery upgrade... A 70-100km range seems great to have on a Unicycle (I know it depends on weight and circumstances, but with my 72kg in the summer I do get about a small 50km's on my Ninebot Max)

Thanks everyone for the comments. If you have something to add, please do, it's interesting hearing people's viewpoints on the market.

Edited June 21, 2021 by sidderke

[UniVehje]

1 hour ago, sidderke said:

Ow, I didn't learn yet about the V8S, very interesting. The V8 looks like it has a great handle and everyone seems to love it except for its range (and maybe top speed, but that's of less a concern to me - I still love my Ninebot Max which is not a speed demon either)

Would be great if the V10 would also get a battery upgrade... A 70-100km range seems great to have on a Unicycle (I know it depends on weight and circumstances, but with my 72kg in the summer I do get about a small 50km's on my Ninebot Max)

Thanks everyone for the comments. If you have something to add, please do, it's interesting hearing people's viewpoints on the market.

My spouse used to own a V8 and I often borrowed it for commuting. It is a very nice wheel for that. But if you plan to ride 50 km trips, then a bigger wheel would suit better. Especially if you have the budget for that. V10F has a 960 Wh battery that takes you around 50-60 km in real life. It's easier to ride a bit faster so you should think about it as 50 km wheel with some kilometres to spare if you keep at 30 km/h. Most of the time you can think half of what the manufacturers claim. (They test at 25C weather, no wind, 75 kg rider, 20-25 km/h constant speed with no accelerations or uphills) An 18XL you can ride for 90-100 km. I have passed 100 km on one ride, around 30 km /h and warm weather. A V11 can do up to 80 km in real life at your weight and in warm weather. 

Edited June 21, 2021 by UniVehje

[Ben Kim]

Here’s the issue with “commuters”, in many cases the 18-20 mph that commuters provide is insufficient for traveling any significant distance given infrastructure. 

Yes the big wheels can provide tons of speed and range, but an EUC is easier to modulate speed on compared to a throttle activated ebike or e-scooter

Also note, achieving top speed on an EUC is nowhere as easy as holding a throttle down by a current-limited control board safely riding at the top speed; on an EUC there is no “top speed” if you exceed the limits you WILL fall and it will sting.  There are safe “cruising speeds” but that doesn’t factor in for rider skill level, familiarity, or hardware failures. 

With that said, just because you think 20 mph is all you need, does not mean you should buy a wheel with a 20 mph top speed. If you THINK you need a 20 mph wheel, you need to buy yourself a 25 mph wheel so you can have that 20 mph safely. 

 

[RockyTop]

The bigger wheels are the cutting edge .. Sure! The smaller wheels are still available. They are not cutting edge but they still sell very well. If you only watch YouTube you are going to see the latest and greatest power wheels. The S18 is NOT a power wheel. The 18XL is a great every day wheel that has impressive performance for a < 180 pound person under 30MPH. Kingsong and InMotion have been keeping their dependable wheels for the non performance people. 
The community is growing slowly. I see people riding them more and more downtown. 

[meepmeepmayer]

It was natural for the electric unicycle market to develop this way. The summary is: few reasons not to go for a "big" performance wheel, while the "smaller" ones do have some serious disadvantages.

Reasons to buy a big and bad wheel:

• They are safer! Speed and big battery make you safer on self-balancing vehicles. This is counterintuitive to how other vehicles are perceived, where power means danger. For EUCs, stronger = safer. Think planes, where a smaller, lighter, slower plane is considered less safe than a bigger one.
  If you are concerned about speed: you can ride slow on a wheel that can go much faster. Problem solved.
• Since battery size = range, any high range wheel will be big and bad automatically.
• You can do pretty much everything on them you could do with a smaller wheel. Even the biggest electric unicycle is - in the end - quite small and maneuverable. You lose almost nothing when riding a bigger wheel.
• Usefulness. You'll likely outgrow a small wheel or it will be too limiting in the long term. If you want a serious commuter wheel that replaces a car or bus ride, as opposed to a 10 minute walk, you're already in performance wheel territory. Experience shows 30kph is too slow in the medium to long term, and 35kph is barely cutting it. If you want those speeds at non-full battery, you're already in the area of wheels that can go 50kph.

Reasons to buy a "small" wheel:

• Price. They're cheaper. On the other hand: for the same money, you could get a used performance wheel.
• Low weight. If you need to carry your wheel regularly, a 40kg Sherman just won't work. But as long as you ride, weight is no problem.
• You just like the maneuverability and fun from a smaller tire, more torque-y wheel. It is a different ride, and the very heavy wheels do lose some of that fun. It's a different kind of fun to wrestle a heavy wheel, though.

A "big" wheel just makes sense for most people. A "small" wheel does come with limitations.

There's also a bit of history. EUCs used to be too weak and too slow until they weren't. Technical developments happened. All that was not that long ago. Too weak and too slow (for most people) is not that far away from what the current performance wheels offer.

-

In my opinion, if you want a serious electric unicycle and not just play around: I consider the V8/V8F/V8S and the 16S and everything below too slow for the majority of people in the long term. Fun starts with the V10/V10F, and the biggest reason to not go higher is simply price.  The MCM5 is an outlier in that the tire size, not its speed or power, limits how you would want to use it.

Edited June 21, 2021 by meepmeepmayer

[meepmeepmayer]

10 hours ago, Ben Kim said:

With that said, just because you think 20 mph is all you need, does not mean you should buy a wheel with a 20 mph top speed. If you THINK you need a 20 mph wheel, you need to buy yourself a 25 mph wheel so you can have that 20 mph safely. 

Very wise, but it needs a correction:

If you think 30kph/20mph is enough, you need to buy yourself a 50kph/30mph wheel so you can have the 40kph/25mph safely that you will actually ride

12 hours ago, sidderke said:

A 70-100km range seems great to have on a Unicycle

Do NOT believe the outrageously inflated range numbers from the manufacturers. As a (very rough) rule of thumb, 1000Wh = 50km = 30 miles at 30kph/20mph. Much less if you go faster (20km at 50kph/30mph), much more if you go slower (might even get the official number if you can go that slow without going crazy).

If you have a specific model in mind, just see or ask what ranges people actually get on it.

Manufacturer ranges are lies.

Edited June 21, 2021 by meepmeepmayer

[sidderke]

Thank you for all the comments and advice, I appreciate it. It's also still a bit of a shock to a newbie that the market doesn't seem huge in the amount of models and companies playing. 

I've noticed by watching YT videos and reading the forum here that indeed the ranges are hugely inflated (not that different with electric scooters). That's nice about the website of electricscooterguide, that they do their own testing, with the same rider, pretty much the same parameters, and they have a database with tested range, not only the numbers from the manufacturers. 

I am indeed looking at a V8s, V10f, V10s, some Kingsongs models. Thursday I can play a couple of hours with a v10f so then I'll first see if it's something I enjoy, like, want more or want nothing to do with for the time being  

[houseofjob]

19 hours ago, sidderke said:

Lately I've been thinking again about trying it. The possible advantages keep me interested and I know a lot of people told me when I got the Ninebot "aren't those things dangerous?". After almost a year, I can say: if I ride it like I used to ride my bike, being watchful of pedestrians, pot holes, slowing down on busy places, etc etc, there is not a lot more safety risk than the bike. I only fell once, and it was a very deep pothole I hadn't seen. So I guess if you ride your EUC conservatively and defensively it's maybe not as bad as people think.

I would argue, based on observing the frequency and nature of accidents across PEVs, that EUC is safer than the others due to the gyroscope balancing you to give you more of a chance to react and brace for a fall, plus the infinitely more maneuverability of not having an axle or extra second wheel to restrict turning radius.

The tendency on anything grabbing a handle during an accident, is to hold on to the handlebars during a crash, which puts you in a more compromising position in said crash, flipping over, etc., and reducing reaction time when bracing to fall.

If you track the nature and severity of falls, I see way more severe injuries (even deaths) among scooters, bikes, and eboards (albeit this can also be due to the larger sample size of those PEVs).

This is all of course, is if the EUC doesn't unpredictably cutout, which is the fear of many a non-EUC riders, but is actually less frequent than you would think, and can die down to never, with the more reliable wheels.

 

19 hours ago, sidderke said:

So I hope one of these weeks to get a few days of trying it and seeing how it feels. I already downloaded a lot of tutorials, and I'm not counting on getting it right in the first hours. (I also don't have particularly good balance, so I'm not sure the whole thing is for me - that's why I rather try before spending a lot of money)

IMHO, if you can learn how to ride a bike, you can learn how to ride an EUC (with the right guidance and instructions). The EUC is a step easier than learning its manual unicycle cousin, as the gyroscope balancing the rider serves as not unlike the stability of having a second wheel when learning to ride a bike.

Having "good balance" is a myth IMHO: either you have balance, or you don't; and if you don't, you're unable to function/walk regularly, and probably shouldn't be on any PEV really.

 

19 hours ago, sidderke said:

If I look at the timeline, it seems like in 2016 there were a big amount of wheels released by all the big companies, and after that there was a big drop-off every year.

The circa 2016 period was an anomaly for EUC, due to Gotway breaking out and developing EUCs at an unsustainable pace. This period laid the foundation for many Gotway influences, like the jump to higher battery pack 84V wheels, faster speeds beyond the previous 30kph resistance threshold for many manufacturers at that time, and for Gotway themselves, shell design paradigms that they still capitalize on in their current recycled shell models.

I would argue the escooter space, while bigger than EUC yes, isn't really as big as you make it out to be, because many different companies are borrowing same copycat frameworks/templates, especially the more generic companies. (some literally just tweaking minor stuff and slapping their name on the same scooter others are using)

 

19 hours ago, sidderke said:

It seems like so much of the attention is going to the power and speeds, and that all the other wheels (InMotion V8(f)/V10(f), Kingsong 16S/18XL) are all already something like 3 years old at this point and haven't been actively developed. That whole portion of the market doesn't seem very active. Is that wrong of me to think? As someone who is not interested in crazy speeds or torque, but I do want safety, comfort features and range (this makes it difficult... that's why I picked the Ninebot Max, and that's why for a first wheel, I'm thinking of a V10f and sometimes my mind even goes to an 18XL), there is way less (and older) models to pick from, especially when compared to the electric scooter market.

No, this is a major complaint of mine as well: companies have abandoned the subcompact, lightweight wheel segment, which used to be the bread-and-butter of the 2014-2016 EUC space.

Also realize: just because it's 3 years old, doesn't necessarily mean the new stuff is "better" (which these days I'm beginning to think more and more it's not). I actually haven't really purchased any of the "newer" wheels (outside of the Veteran Sherman), and have been exploring older wheels, like the Gotway Tesla2 purchase I'm currently mulling over. IMHO, makers these days are pumping out "me-too" wheels to chase successful wheel models, copying similar specs & weight, all to not really add anything really new to the market. And having tried many of them, I just keep reaching back to my tried-and-true older wheels, as I don't find anything necessarily "better" (in fact, I find things that are worse, in comparison).

 

19 hours ago, sidderke said:

I've never been a speed devil, skater, or anything, so the risk-factor of EUC's (or perceived risk factor) has always frightened me.

This is one of the big reasons why the EUC space is so small really: most onlookers interpret an EUC as more novelty act than actual viable transport, ie. visual prejudice.

First, the paradigm/culture of one-wheeled transport is not romanticized at all like 2-wheeled transport, or the board culture you see in the US. The only thing you think of on one wheel is a juggling circus act. This does not help wider adoption.

Second, like you said, EUC seem to outsiders as dangerous and difficult to learn, when these factors are not that greater than in other PEV really (with the right knowledge/learning).

Third, the utilization of a gyroscope in EUCs make the IP much more restrictive for competitors to make their own versions (most so in the lawsuit capitol of the world, the US) than a scooter, which is a common design that is not guarded behind a patent lawyer army.

Edited June 22, 2021 by houseofjob

[santtis]

I feel like the "need for speed" is really pushed by the community in the US.

In my country and I think generally in Europe too the roads are pretty different compared to US. There are bikelanes that take you everywhere in the city. The speed limit is 20-25km/h. You can go a little bit faster but not really the speeds that the cars go. If you do you are going to attract unwanted police attention.

In the US you are forced to go on the roads with cars. For safety you have to keep up with the traffic. The local legality seems very relax about PEVS.

Looking at the YouTube videos they share the same space with cars in the US. In Europe you share the same space with pedestrians. The speeds are really different and so are the needs.

 

 

[sidderke]

Thanks, @houseofjob for that informative post! From what I've read as well, the whole cut-out thing shouldn't be a problem if you respect the beeps and don't drive your machine to its limits. Put the right warnings in the app, and then listen to it and the tiltback. Personally I don't understand when I hear people switch off tilt backs and stuff, but to each his own. Thanks for shedding some light at the 2016-year. 

A couple of weeks ago I kind of had a click in my head that an EUC seemed like an invincible combination of power, portability, and even 'idea' of transport, of all the PEV's and non-PEV's on the market. With as an only downside that you have to learn it and the perceived risk factor. The former 'issue' can be handled, because I have time and it's summer so maybe a nice time to learn in a park or empty parking. And the latter is not as bad as it seems (from what I read here and doing other research). I had a click in my head that I haven't been able to put down: If in a hypothetical world I hadn't learned to bicycle and I saw bicycles as an adult, wouldn't I say: hey it's worth to learn it if you could get all these advantages? And then I looked at how small, quick and handy (hands free) a EUC seems, and I thought: who *wouldn't* want to learn this if it gives you the power to access those machines and specific advantages? (funny for me to say, I never learned how to drive in a car ) It's also when I was going for groceries with my electric scooter/step that I found it to be pretty cumbersome in practice and thought how easy it seemed for those people on an EUC. I know it sounds a bit silly maybe, but that was a huge factor in me taking another look at EUC.  About my balance: I've never been someone who would drive a bike without hands. Even one hand was already a bit icky for me. So I'm not sure if an EUC is for me, but I can try for a couple of hours with some good tutorials and I'll get a first idea. 

@santtis You made a good point. I'm in Europe, and the few times I've seen EUC, it's nothing like the YT videos I see. Of course, sometimes when I see those YT videos, I'm shocked at how absent the infrastructure for bicycles is, so you're right. I didn't think about that. 

Edited June 22, 2021 by sidderke

[Tawpie]

I get that “speed” is a great metric for picking a wheel, but personally find that my speed limit is far lower than the current (modern) offerings. I’m most happy cruising at or below 35kph, so I have a 2-3 year old design that has a big(ish) battery mostly for safety margin (emergency power). I’m less weather tolerant than my wheels and using a burner phone as a dashboard suits me just fine so I’m real good right now.

Old designs aren’t as fast, and if you’re playing in traffic that is definitely a deal, but they’re almost too fast for bike lanes and definitely are able to go too fast for safely traveling sidewalks. They also have maturity and simplicity on their side so they’ve moved more into the utility category and don’t require much attention… you don’t have to baby them like a prized stallion.

For entertainment in urban areas, I don’t have anything on my list of must-haves and am not surprised that the manufacturers haven’t added an eye popping feature to the mid speed wheels in the past few years. I think the use case needs of the non-enthusiast rider are nicely met with the 2018/2019 vintages. I certainly don’t have a solid reason to go faster than 50 kph on a bike path or sidewalk (riding in traffic is a totally different thing, but I hate riding around cars so I just don’t).

I am however, watching the suspension developments because I prefer off road and want a suspension wheel—stones, roots, ruts, hooves and hiking boots make a trail very bumpy and that tires me out before I’ve had enough fun for the day. I mostly want a better battery setup than the S18 because I do want to avoid overpowering the thing.

Edited June 22, 2021 by Tawpie

[sidderke]

I agree with the speed. I have a Ninebot Max now and in Europe it’s limited to 25km/hour. I have moments in traffic where either to catch up with someone or in long straight roads I would like it to go a bit faster, but it’s not something I miss a lot. If I would have a wheel I think if I get comfortable I would be riding at max 35km/hour, and only in very specific conditions. I think 25-33km/hour is a nice speed. 
Of course as someone already mentioned, with a EUC having a bit more margin has big effects on safety. I didn’t understand the mention about riding above bumps until I read a blog that explained how the machine then needs more power to keep itself balanced. Makes sense and another thing to keep in mind. 
 

I do like range so that’s something that often puts my preference in heavier machines. That’s why I picked the Ninebot Max, because its range was unmatched in its price category. I would hope Inmotion announcing a V10S like they did with the V8s just now.  If a electric scooter and an electric unicycle would have the same battery size and the same weight rider/weather and they ride at the same comparable speed, would there be a lot of difference between the range of the scooter and the unicycle? Or would that be negligible? 

I agree about customer and safety features. Stuff like you see on the V12 (just as an example because I just saw some reviews on YouTube): a mini screen, a kickstand, IPX rating, … 

In the Electric Scooter world it’s also nice to see some new features. The Apollo Phantom I believe with a beautiful display, or the (still on Kickstarter?) TAUR scooter that has a backlight that points up, illuminating the driver. Very handy because the back light on a scooter is so low (I have a helmet with built-in lights) 

Edited June 22, 2021 by sidderke

[PLEASE_DELETE]

Deleted.

Edited March 18 by PLEASE_DELETE

[sidderke]

Thank you for that support. I will keep it in mind when I try and fail! 

[.....]

8 minutes ago, sidderke said:

Thank you for that support. I will keep it in mind when I try and fail! 

It aint fail unless you quit. It's simply part of the learning experience and journey. Always focus on the bigger picture.  If you decide to ride an euc, its best you just assume there is no fail in your plans or future.

Edited June 22, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Ben Kim]

23 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

It was natural for the electric unicycle market to develop this way. The summary is: few reasons not to go for a "big" performance wheel, while the "smaller" ones do have some serious disadvantages.

Reasons to buy a big and bad wheel:

• They are safer! Speed and big battery make you safer on self-balancing vehicles. This is counterintuitive to how other vehicles are perceived, where power means danger. For EUCs, stronger = safer. Think planes, where a smaller, lighter, slower plane is considered less safe than a bigger one.
  If you are concerned about speed: you can ride slow on a wheel that can go much faster. Problem solved.
• Since battery size = range, any high range wheel will be big and bad automatically.
• You can do pretty much everything on them you could do with a smaller wheel. Even the biggest electric unicycle is - in the end - quite small and maneuverable. You lose almost nothing when riding a bigger wheel.
• Usefulness. You'll likely outgrow a small wheel or it will be too limiting in the long term. If you want a serious commuter wheel that replaces a car or bus ride, as opposed to a 10 minute walk, you're already in performance wheel territory. Experience shows 30kph is too slow in the medium to long term, and 35kph is barely cutting it. If you want those speeds at non-full battery, you're already in the area of wheels that can go 50kph.

Reasons to buy a "small" wheel:

• Price. They're cheaper. On the other hand: for the same money, you could get a used performance wheel.
• Low weight. If you need to carry your wheel regularly, a 40kg Sherman just won't work. But as long as you ride, weight is no problem.
• You just like the maneuverability and fun from a smaller tire, more torque-y wheel. It is a different ride, and the very heavy wheels do lose some of that fun. It's a different kind of fun to wrestle a heavy wheel, though.

A "big" wheel just makes sense for most people. A "small" wheel does come with limitations.

There's also a bit of history. EUCs used to be too weak and too slow until they weren't. Technical developments happened. All that was not that long ago. Too weak and too slow (for most people) is not that far away from what the current performance wheels offer.

-

In my opinion, if you want a serious electric unicycle and not just play around: I consider the V8/V8F/V8S and the 16S and everything below too slow for the majority of people in the long term. Fun starts with the V10/V10F, and the biggest reason to not go higher is simply price.  The MCM5 is an outlier in that the tire size, not its speed or power, limits how you would want to use it.

I strongly disagree with that last sentence re: MCM5. If they made a 100v version of this wheel that did 35 mph i would be first in line to get one. 

That wheel has nearly killed me multiple times because it cannot deliver the speeds i need safely.

Whereas a 100v MSX will give me 30 mph without breaking a sweat nor fear of cutout. 

[mrelwood]

 

On 6/22/2021 at 11:51 AM, sidderke said:

A couple of weeks ago I kind of had a click in my head that an EUC seemed like an invincible combination of power, portability, and even 'idea' of transport, of all the PEV's and non-PEV's on the market.

While the practicality of the EUC is hard to argue with, for me it’s not what makes me go ride myself beyond exhaustion twice a week in the woods and recreational areas. Or visit my friend 1-2 times a week in the neighboring city nearly 10 miles a pop. And so on.

 Unfortunately the feeling you get from riding when you finally become one with your wheel can’t be shown, and even the most accurate verbal descriptions of it sounds like a ridiculous childish exaggerations.

 There is nothing like it in the world. It’s like skiing as you control the steepness of the hill with your mind. It’s like flying excitingly close to the ground. It’s like zooming forward at moped speeds while hovering 6 inches in the air with magic. It’s like dreaming of the most astonishing transportation device of your own design from the future.

 To each their own how they balance the practicality and the amazing feeling when describing riding on an EUC. For me the magic wins though.

[sidderke]

To everyone: I was gonna try someone else's wheel last week for the first time, and that person mentioned that a local Fnac had a deal on a inMotion V10F at 680 euros, new. I don't know if they wanted to get rid of it because no one bought it (the guy said everyone is coming for the electric scooter). So I just went out an bought it, because I was already interested in that model anyway. I've spent the past 4 days practicing, and very much looking forward in continuing to get it. I can already do some 100 meters with some big turns, but I still miss control in a lot of things. But I'll get there. 

Anyway, if people want to keep this thread about the first impressions of a non-EUC rider, feel free! I think think the subject of how that market evolves and looks like from the outside, is an interesting topic. Thanks for all responses so far! 

[meepmeepmayer]

25 minutes ago, sidderke said:

a local Fnac had a deal on a inMotion V10F at 680 euros, new

Wow that is fantastic!!

[sidderke]

I know, for that price, I thought: if I don't like it, I can sell it again. If it's my thing, I'll hate myself for not getting that deal. And than I had my own wheel that I could train on for as long as I wanted. 

The guy who also had the V10F (and already gave me some tips on my second day, which was very welcome) said it was such a good deal he was doubting to buy a second wheel  

It was an absurd price. I think it was stock they wanted to get rid of.