KS-S18, IM-V11 or RS19 for offroad and mountain riding

[Greg X]

v11 - weak for heavy uphills. 

Rs HT - probably best, simple durable construction, no suspension but strong motor and battery. 

s18 - poor battery, not designed for long rides uphill.

 

Maybe You wait 1 month and consider s20. It can be best for this purpose, typical offroader, strong motor and battery.

Edited January 17, 2022 by Greg X

[Tawpie]

10 hours ago, GPCAPN said:

Can you tell this newb with it would be a good or bad idea to grab an Eagle as opposed to a tried and trued wheel??

Watch some videos of Mike Leahe or the EUC Bros (they ride together frequently). They’re pretty much all on Gotway (MSP???, I don’t know my Gotways). Very simple machine so it’s able to handle a ton of punishment (with the assistance of two or three dozen rolls of gorilla tape). They call their style “technical downhill” and if you’re wanting to do what they do, I’m thinking fancy suspension isn’t the right formula. Besides, we need to see how easy it is to destroy the oil can on the S20… looks like it’s in an unfortunate position.

Another strike against the Eagle is the wheel weight, and while I have one on pre-order weight is my biggest concern. I’m nowhere near skilled enough for technical downhill and only ride blue trails, but there will come a time when it needs to be lifted back upright when the footing is sketch, and it will need to be dragged back up the side of a hill to get back on the trail. My ownership will be short if it’s too dang heavy. And one thing for certain, it’s gonna be heavy. I’ll probably have to add some climbing rope and a block and tackle to the backpack… 

Edited January 18, 2022 by Tawpie

[TantasStarke]

For your usecase? RS19 HT would be the best bet. Insane offroading and jumping capabilities, and is easy to work on. Wouldn't recommend riding it in the rain though

[GPCAPN]

Awesome input. A couple RS18 suggestions. And I wasn't thinking much about the weight of the Eagle. I probably need to get on one of these things somewhere just to see what I'm getting into. I rode a One Wheel in a parking lot. Different, admittedly. But that was a lot of fun. So I'm excited to try an EUC.

[lazybones99]

9 hours ago, Tawpie said:

Watch some videos of Mike Leahe or the EUC Bros (they ride together frequently). 

Some of this EUC bros videos are great. I’m talking about the ones on the trails with the flowy jumps. 

[yoos]

21 hours ago, GPCAPN said:

But I happen to have more dollars than sense.

In this case I would suggest to get an EUC already -- an RS or S18 and then get an S20 later once they become available. The S20 might still take some time (it was initially scheduled for last fall) and then there will be high demand and possibly 1st batch issues. So I wouldn't wait and would get the RS or S18 already. They are also lighter and therefore considerably easier to learn on. Most people here keep more than one wheel. If your EUC breaks sourcing parts and fixing it can take a long time so it's handy to have a spare EUC (you can also use it to teach/lend to your friends so they join the addiction).

[GPCAPN]

6 minutes ago, yoos said:

In this case I would suggest to get an EUC already -- an RS or S18 and then get an S20 later once they become available. The S20 might still take some time (it was initially scheduled for last fall) and then there will be high demand and possibly 1st batch issues. So I wouldn't wait and would get the RS or S18 already. They are also lighter and therefore considerably easier to learn on. Most people here keep more than one wheel. If your EUC breaks sourcing parts and fixing it can take a long time so it's handy to have a spare EUC (you can also use it to teach/lend to your friends so they join the addiction).

Two very valid points. In fact...that makes sense to me.

[Wise Rides]

Not sure if it was mentioned, but the v11 is a very capable off road wheel but the lower part of the shell takes a beating.  I would say it's an excellent off roader if the shell didn't extend down and out so far on the rim then .   I've already broken my shell jumping up over roots, rocks, and curbs.  You have to hit the obstacle dead on.  If you come at an angle you'll bash the shell.  Other than that, I found the wheel had plenty of torque to climb over stuff, and downhill is a breeze with the suspension.

[Tawpie]

On 1/18/2022 at 6:59 AM, lazybones99 said:

I’m talking about the ones on the trails with the flowy jumps.

Mind your side-to-side lean angle, it's settable on some wheels but not all. It's a mistake to hit the berms too fast (wheel thinks it's on its side and turns the motor off)

I don't think the S18 is the best for flowy jumps personally, not enough power for entry into the jump. (caveat: I don't jump flowy jumps... yet)

Edited February 22, 2022 by Tawpie

[Boostnsvt]

Why don’t you take your own advice and follow the leaders who off-road. Every blog channel or YouTube persona uses high cap non suspension wheels. I don’t think I’ve watched a single suspension wheel being used by an expert(daily or regularly). There may be many reasons for that and it might change with all these new wheels coming out, however currently even if you decide to upgrade to one of those high$ suspension wheels in the future you’ll always have a no suspension street wheel to fall back on!

Edited February 23, 2022 by Boostnsvt

[Richardo]

I’m glad to see the advice to buy something now and wait on the S20. 
 

Late model wheels are basically made by pulling a roulette wheel out of a casino and putting a tire on it. It doesn’t matter what manufacturer you’re looking at, you don’t know what you’re getting until that wheel has been out for a year or two.
 

The only predictable thing seems to be that wheels never exceed expectations! I mean, they can be awesome, but I don’t think there has been a single release in the past few years without some major caveat. 

[OldFartRides]

@Unipsycho, did you ever get your s18 going ? 

[Unipsycho]

On 3/13/2022 at 7:22 PM, OldFartRides said:

@Unipsycho, did you ever get your s18 going ? 

I just did a week ago and got out for some rides in Okotoks on the paved trails since most stuff is still muddy, flooded or ice covered where I want to ride.  But things are drying up fast so I expect to get out on more trails soon.  It was a LONG wait for replacement batteries from kingsong for mine, but nice to be back in action now for the season.  I have a lot of mountains planned....hehe

[wstuart]

I would like to offer the experience of a new rider.  I've only been riding a few months and I ride tight technical mountainbike trails and city commuting. 

I have both the V11 and an MSP HT with an offroad tire.  As nice as the suspension is on the V11, I like the MSP much more for offroad - because of the torque.

When riding offroad, especially trails that go up hill, there are many times where I go through small (4 or 5 foot) sections of trail that get really steep. I like to think of these as a hill within a hill.  Often these are in bumpy low speed sections where the wheel doesn't have a lot of momentum going into the steep section.  This is where torque is an absolute must.  In these scenarios I have found my MSP HT to more capable than my V11.  The v11 is no slouch, its just that this type or terrain with a heavy rider like me (240lbs) needs a ton of torque.   Also the bottom of the case and shocks are super exposed on the v11 - I really don't consider it an offroad wheel.

Also it must be mentioned that the V11 has much higher pedals.  This is great for clearance and low speed manuevering, but for a new rider like me, actually feels less stable.  I'm ok with it now but it took a while to get used to.  So even though the suspension smooths out alot of bumps, I actually feel more confident on the MSP when the wheel is getting bucked around. 

 

When it comes to smooth city riding though the V11 can't be beat.  It takes all the imperfections out of the road and is an absolutely amazing experience.

I have no experience with the s18, but I think the small battery would be limiting.  With the 1800wh pack of my MSP, I can go through 50% of the battery in about 1.5 hours with 20 miles of technical hilly riding. With the smaller s18 pack I think you would have much shorter runs.  If your terrain doesn't have alot of elevation gain and you are a lighter rider it might be ok though.

I have a pre order in for the S20 (I guess S22 now)  but I really wonder if it will be as good as my MSP HT in low speed uphill sections.  I actually doubt it, however in downhill rough sections I bet the S20 will fly past the MSP.

These wheels are alot like bikes.  I think the MSP and RS19s are like awesome hardtail mountain bikes.  That is exactly the kind of mountain bike I like to ride on technical uphill trails.  I think the S20 is like a super nice (and expensive) full suspension downhill bike.  Great for high-speed and downhill sections but not fun to pedal uphill. 

 

Also, in my experience, changing my riding technique has sort of made the MSP feel more like a suspension wheel.  I have learned alot about riding over bumps at speed from riding my MSP.  I have learned that if I bend my knees and keep my legs relaxed, I can let the EUC sort off dance around underneath me and my legs act as a suspension. This actually takes alot of strain off my joints and allows me to go alot faster of rough sections - but I had to practice to learn it.  This was a major epiphany for me and I learned by watching Cooch's videos where he seemed to allow his non suspension wheels to bounce around alot beneath him.  The key to this technique is having relaxed legs.

I'm so so happy with my MSP offroad that I sort of wonder if I need an S20.  I'm really getting the s20 for the experience - because guys like Cooch and the eevees guys (who I got to chat with when they visited) rave about how different and amazing the s20 is.  I think what will happen is the S20 will be much faster and more fun on the downhill and flat portions of the rides, but won't be as fast or just won't be capable of the low speed steep uphill portion..... or maybe I'm wrong and it will win everywhere - I hope to find out.

 

If I had to start over right now and get an offroad wheel - I would get an RS19 HT from ewheels with an offroad tire and ride it a bunch to get offroad experience.  You will not be disappointed.

 

Then maybe get or borrow an s20 and compare. I really wish there was a wheel rental service.  I would pay alot of money to be able to take the s20 out for just an hour to see how it is. 

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by wstuart

[mrelwood]

11 hours ago, wstuart said:

I have a pre order in for the S20 (I guess S22 now)  but I really wonder if it will be as good as my MSP HT in low speed uphill sections. 

Based on Wrong Way Adam’s incline tests, the V11 is more capable on steep inclines than the S20. The V11 might fry itself if repeatedly pushed too hard though. This can of course still change for the S22.

I got a flat last summer on my V11 so I had to borrow an MSP HT for the full-day group ride that was focusing on light off road. I hadn’t been that much afraid for a long time, and more importantly, my feet had never ached so bad! They were toast for a full couple of days. It was a really horrific reminder of how the MSX/MSP is to ride compared to the V11. Never again.

[Unipilot69]

22 hours ago, wstuart said:

When riding offroad, especially trails that go up hill, there are many times where I go through small (4 or 5 foot) sections of trail that get really steep. I like to think of these as a hill within a hill.  Often these are in bumpy low speed sections where the wheel doesn't have a lot of momentum going into the steep section.  This is where torque is an absolute must.  In these scenarios I have found my MSP HT to more capable than my V11.  The v11 is no slouch, its just that this type or terrain with a heavy rider like me (240lbs) needs a ton of torque.   Also the bottom of the case and shocks are super exposed on the v11 - I really don't consider it an offroad wheel.

 

22 hours ago, wstuart said:

With the 1800wh pack of my MSP, I can go through 50% of the battery in about 1.5 hours with 20 miles of technical hilly riding.

I'm about the same weight. I got an RS high speed in Dec 2020. I ride both street and technical off road as well. I used the RS for everything most of last year. I got a Monster Pro in October and use that for mild trail and street. I've drained my RS from 100 percent to 90 percent in 1 mile of balls to the wall riding. I've strained the motor many times on steep hills both going up and down. My RS is the second batch. It has the larger bearings and shitty LG cells. So far it's holding up very well. I take the outer panels off and inspect everything quite often. I have very little intrusion of dust or water. I have some on the bottom because I drilled 4 drain holes on the bottom of each side of the inner shell.

This past December I got an EN.N high torque. Now this is all I use for off road riding. I can ascend very steep trails that were not possible on the RS high speed. You should consider an EX.N high torque. For heavy riders the larger battery capacity is much safer.

Edited April 4, 2022 by Unipilot69
Spelling

[wstuart]

15 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Based on Wrong Way Adam’s incline tests, the V11 is more capable on steep inclines than the S20. The V11 might fry itself if repeatedly pushed too hard though. This can of course still change for the S22.

I got a flat last summer on my V11 so I had to borrow an MSP HT for the full-day group ride that was focusing on light off road. I hadn’t been that much afraid for a long time, and more importantly, my feet had never ached so bad! They were toast for a full couple of days. It was a really horrific reminder of how the MSX/MSP is to ride compared to the V11. Never again.

Yeah my feet and knees also hurt after riding my MSP - I'm not rude it's from a lack of suspension though. I think it's the pedal angle. I just got some adjustable Gotway CNC pedals to see if making them flatter helps with the pain. 

[Roadpower]

7 hours ago, wstuart said:

Yeah my feet and knees also hurt after riding my MSP - I'm not rude it's from a lack of suspension though. I think it's the pedal angle. I just got some adjustable Gotway CNC pedals to see if making them flatter helps with the pain. 

It took a year for my feet to stop screaming at me when I ride.

[TantasStarke]

9 minutes ago, Roadpower said:

It took a year for my feet to stop screaming at me when I ride.

I'm nearly 3500miles and 7.5 months and my feet still scream at me, hopefully it goes away soon but I'm worried it won't after the amount of time and miles I've put on my wheels

[Roadpower]

8 minutes ago, TantasStarke said:

I'm nearly 3500miles and 7.5 months and my feet still scream at me, hopefully it goes away soon but I'm worried it won't after the amount of time and miles I've put on my wheels

I had that same concern for it taking it so long for my feet to become more resilient. My feet still get a bit achy at times but between now and when I started it is orders of magnitude better and my feet recover much faster. In addition to riding I suggest taking vitamins and minerals regularly. Your body will need the building block material as part of your foot strengthening process.

[lazybones99]

It takes a while for sure. The biggest thing that helped me was this - don't clench your toes when you ride - try to relax your feet as much as possible while leaning forward. When you lean forward, I think there is a tendency (especially when learning) to push back with both the balls of your feet AND your toes. Try to support your lean with only the balls of your feet and not your toes.

[lazybones99]

It just occurred to me how the issue of foot fatigue reminds me of my first trip to the mountain bike park.

Last summer I went to a downhill mtb park - the kind where you take a ski lift up and ride down. It was a blast.... but the first few trips down the longer runs, I was pretty concerned I wouldn't make it down the hill because my hands/forearms were soooo tired.

Then i realized I was just grabbing the handlebars too tight. After I loosened my grip a little, the fatigue & pain & fear went away and enjoyed myself a lot more. 

I think foot fatigue/pain with EUC's is very similar, relax the bottom of your feet some and the fatigue/pain will go away.

[Roadpower]

42 minutes ago, lazybones99 said:

The biggest thing that helped me was this - don't clench your toes when you ride...

Ha! This reminds me of how it felt in the early riding days. I would describe it to people as Kung Fu Monkey Grip! lol

[mrelwood]

On 4/5/2022 at 7:46 AM, TantasStarke said:

I'm nearly 3500miles and 7.5 months and my feet still scream at me

The comments about rehearsing your feet and legs are important ones, but in your situation I do wonder if you should consider shopping for better shoes by now. I have achy feet, and a can only imagine my relief when I finally found a pair that allowed me to ride for two hours without pain!

Edited April 6, 2022 by mrelwood

[OldFartRides]

I dunno, replacing my feet and legs sounds a bit extreme…