Sludog Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 Since I'm just a recreational rider and the winter cold has been taking over the northeast I don't get to ride my EUC as much lately. I try to go on some quick rides around town but shorter daylight has also been an issue since I ride on the weekends and after work. My question is battery storage. Should I be charging the battery after every ride if the wheel is not getting much use or is it still ok to charge the battery when it gets low after a few rides even if it's only one or two rides a week. Summer rides were usually 20-30 miles trips but now the winter has brought me down to only about 5 miles or less. Not sure if EUC battery health is best when fully charged in storage or discharged when not in use. Is there a "storage mode" for EUC batteries? I have an Inmotion V10 if that makes any difference. My son and I have a collection of higher end RC vehicles and they run on Lipo batteries. Lipo is best stored in the middle when not being used and never fully charged or fully discharged because the batteries will start to die. We put all our batteries in "storage mode" when not in use which keeps the battery towards the middle capacity and when we are ready to take some truck out we will charge the same day we go out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 50-60% is best for storing Li ions. But they’ll self discharge a little so top them up every month or so. You don’t want them to go too low. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 2 hours ago, Sludog said: My son and I have a collection of higher end RC vehicles and they run on Lipo batteries. Lipo is best stored in the middle when not being used and never fully charged or fully discharged because the batteries will start to die. That's about exactly the same for EUC Li Ions. With just one important addition - in EUC battery packs are many cells in serie (16-24) and they are in dire need of balancing and balancing capabilities of the BMS are quite ähhh modest... Balancing only happens during the constant voltage stage of charging - so fully charging the battery often enough is quite essential. Also chargers show a green led once the the current drops below some threshold - some chargers were reported to have this threshold quite high so this last charging stage (balancing!) becomes unnecessarily shortened. On the other side the chargers won't ever turn off and so forever trickle charge, which li ions don't like too... Imo batteries start to become burdened once during wheels usage some single cell (groups) get pushed to too low voltages. After beeing fully charged they should be at about the same voltage - the more they get discharged the more their voltage will differ by their slightly different capacity, internal resistance, etc... The lower they get in voltage the worse their "electrical characteristic" compared to the others become - so they'll get beaten down even more... Riding in the cold could increase this "evil feedback loop" a bit, too. You're riding a V10 which makes a 650Wh battery? Personally i would not care too much and charge after every ride - if you want to optimize it and it fits in your schedule leave it at the medium/a bit lowerd charge state it has after your 5 mile ride and charge it full (1/2..1 hour after the led turned green!) before you go to the next ride. Or combine both - if you feel you're getting a cold and lazy week leave it uncharged, if you have another ride planned the next day charge it immedeately... Combining some 5 miles ride until battery goes down to some 50% should not really hurt the wheel, too? But riding with not full batteries especially during cold temperatures significantly reduces ones safety margin! What if your next ride becomes a bit longer, you ride a bit faster, you don't get some road irregularity and ... ;( Have fun riding and don't let battery management make life to complicated! .... and never underestimate the importance of balancing (==real full charge)! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 Boy! I'm I with you guys in the northeast US. My poor wheels, V8 and a Nik+, have been sitting for over a week. Battery wise, I'm going to top charge about every 2 weeks. May be less. Especially my 2.66 kWh Nik+. Lots of batteries to keep balanced. Peace from snowy icy Maine...Guy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 11 minutes ago, Guy said: I'm going to top charge about every 2 weeks Hopefully only if you ride inbetween! Otherwise it could be counterproductive. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 @Chriull laid it all out very well. I would charge it up to around 50-70% after a ride, and depending a bit on the charger amps, I’d plug it in 3 or so hours before the ride. If at all possible. But slow aging because of storing at 100% is still the lesser evil. Bad balancing kills the pack way sooner, and killing the joy with riding on empty batteries defeats the whole purpose. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcatraz Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 The batteries don't self discharge that fast. If you leave them at 60% and check 3 months later I'd be surprised if they're below 50%. More like 55% likely which means even a year would be fine while keeping them around 50% +/-10. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 You can keep your wheel for 6 months and won't notice any battery discharge. Mine has been around 75% for a month now (after my last ride), and I don't plan to do anything till spring (its standing around inside, at room temp). Just charge to 100% before you ride, and do nothing after you ride until you charge it again when you need it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WasDevNull Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 I pretty much charge to 100, and then plan to get it down to at least under 60 within the next day or two (week max). I use a smart plug where I can have it shut off when I want...I know roughly how long it takes. Usually the night before I"ll have it charge a few hours & auto shut off so it isn't charging the whole night & then it's ready in the morning. For winter I try to measure out my last few rides to have it sit at 50% and leave it there....I'll check it once a month but it doesn't really seem to lose charge. I have a V10 & Nik_+ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, alcatraz said: The batteries don't self discharge that fast +1! Elevated self discharge is an important fact how one could recognize a bad battery! Edited December 22, 2020 by Chriull Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sludog Posted December 23, 2020 Author Share Posted December 23, 2020 14 hours ago, mrelwood said: @Chriull laid it all out very well. I would charge it up to around 50-70% after a ride, and depending a bit on the charger amps, I’d plug it in 3 or so hours before the ride. If at all possible. But slow aging because of storing at 100% is still the lesser evil. Bad balancing kills the pack way sooner, and killing the joy with riding on empty batteries defeats the whole purpose. Is there a setting in the Inmotion ap to charge to a certain percentage or do I just have to eyeball the levels to get that 50-70% sweet spot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sludog Posted December 23, 2020 Author Share Posted December 23, 2020 17 hours ago, Chriull said: That's about exactly the same for EUC Li Ions. With just one important addition - in EUC battery packs are many cells in serie (16-24) and they are in dire need of balancing and balancing capabilities of the BMS are quite ähhh modest... Balancing only happens during the constant voltage stage of charging - so fully charging the battery often enough is quite essential. Also chargers show a green led once the the current drops below some threshold - some chargers were reported to have this threshold quite high so this last charging stage (balancing!) becomes unnecessarily shortened. On the other side the chargers won't ever turn off and so forever trickle charge, which li ions don't like too... Imo batteries start to become burdened once during wheels usage some single cell (groups) get pushed to too low voltages. After beeing fully charged they should be at about the same voltage - the more they get discharged the more their voltage will differ by their slightly different capacity, internal resistance, etc... The lower they get in voltage the worse their "electrical characteristic" compared to the others become - so they'll get beaten down even more... Riding in the cold could increase this "evil feedback loop" a bit, too. You're riding a V10 which makes a 650Wh battery? Personally i would not care too much and charge after every ride - if you want to optimize it and it fits in your schedule leave it at the medium/a bit lowerd charge state it has after your 5 mile ride and charge it full (1/2..1 hour after the led turned green!) before you go to the next ride. Or combine both - if you feel you're getting a cold and lazy week leave it uncharged, if you have another ride planned the next day charge it immedeately... Combining some 5 miles ride until battery goes down to some 50% should not really hurt the wheel, too? But riding with not full batteries especially during cold temperatures significantly reduces ones safety margin! What if your next ride becomes a bit longer, you ride a bit faster, you don't get some road irregularity and ... ;( Have fun riding and don't let battery management make life to complicated! .... and never underestimate the importance of balancing (==real full charge)! Vey informative and super helpful. I know that batteries can deteriorate without the proper charging and discharging and you mapped out a plan to prevent that. Appreciate the advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Sludog said: Is there a setting in the Inmotion ap to charge to a certain percentage or do I just have to eyeball the levels to get that 50-70% sweet spot? There isn’t, you’ll have to guess a bit at first. It might be roughly 25% per hour with 5A charging, and it shouldn’t take more than 1 or 2 tries to figure out a more exact rate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 (edited) I read that @Seba is adding the ability (skill?) for EUC World v2.4 to directly control a TP-Link HS110 smart plug so you can set EUC World to tell the smart plug to turn off at a selected charge level when charging including balancing is complete. Check the thread in Apps and App-related Gadgets. You won't need a hub or Kasa or IFFT and that's really excellent. The challenge will be finding an HS110 at a reasonable price—it might or might not be discontinued depending on when you check and your country (TP-Link marked it as end of life this fall but then changed their mind). There were a few on eBay today. It's worth checking out if you don't want to fuss with guessing and timers. Edited December 23, 2020 by Tawpie corrected misstatement... turning off at a user setpoint is an ASK, not a planned feature 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seba Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 2 hours ago, Tawpie said: I read that @Seba is adding the ability (skill?) for EUC World v2.4 to directly control a TP-Link HS110 smart plug so you can set EUC World to tell the smart plug to turn off at a selected charge level when charging including balancing is complete. Of course it will also allow to set custom battery level at which charging will be terminated It will also allow to set timer that will terminate charging. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giffy Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 I've heard that keeping the battery cold is a better way to store it. It slows down any electron movement so reduces the discharge over time. On 12/22/2020 at 11:37 PM, Tawpie said: I read that @Seba is adding the ability (skill?) for EUC World v2.4 to directly control a TP-Link HS110 smart plug so you can set EUC World to tell the smart plug to turn off at a selected charge level when charging including balancing is complete. Check the thread in Apps and App-related Gadgets. You won't need a hub or Kasa or IFFT and that's really excellent. The challenge will be finding an HS110 at a reasonable price—it might or might not be discontinued depending on when you check and your country (TP-Link marked it as end of life this fall but then changed their mind). There were a few on eBay today. It's worth checking out if you don't want to fuss with guessing and timers. interesting, thanks for sharing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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