MCM5 V2 as Winter wheel?

[Scottie888]

Hey guys, after much thought & getting thrown off on the Mten3 hitting a some raised ice, I think I'm ready to move onwards & upwards. As a neighborhood runabout doing groceries, mail & other such plus shorter 30+kms rides esp in winter cold/snow, I'm thinking an MCM5 V2 as the good little wheel that can & will for winter usage as I've more choices for fair weather riding.

What do you guys think?

[houseofjob]

Not sure why you would think an EUC with a thinner tire would do all that much better for snow/ice.

If you look at what kind of conditions / vehicles do better in snow, they tend to be/have:

• be heavier (traction, ala trucks, buses, etc)
• have more tire traction, be it more tread or chains etc.
• along the traction thinking, wider flatter tires (ala snowmobile)

While the MCM5 will be heavier, the higher pedals aka higher center of gravity, combined with thinner tire, and not being that significantly heavy overall, is not a great recipe for snow/ice riding. For EUC, the best hope in such conditions is to get heavier and have a better, possibly wider tire tread option (maybe with custom Russian pedal raisers combined with a chain of some sort).

(but if you just want an excuse to buy a new MCM5 v2, do it! it's a great wheel )

Edited December 17, 2020 by houseofjob

[Scottie888]

@houseofjob I get your points. I won't be riding in a foot of snow but maybe an inch or so at worse. It'll be mainly dry but cold bike paths where traction isn't the main factor but the frozen icy paths make for some treacherous terrain. I love the agility of the Mten3 as a runabout except that a few days ago, I got bounced off after hitting some raised ice hidden by a thin layer of snow. Its just not forgiving enough plus the cold affects the range quite significantly.

As replacement I'm thinking the lightest most compact wheel for agility & ease of riding in harsh conditions. I'm also thinking the least amt of investment possible because its gonna get beat up. So its down to the Inmotion V8f or the MCM5 V2. The M5 has the wider tire with 50% more range. The shell seems hardy enough as well plus its also faster with more juice for funner times.

Is my thinking wrong & if so, whats a better option?

[houseofjob]

12 minutes ago, Scottie888 said:

@houseofjob I get your points. I won't be riding in a foot of snow but maybe an inch or so at worse. It'll be mainly dry but cold bike paths where traction isn't the main factor but the frozen icy paths make for some treacherous terrain. I love the agility of the Mten3 as a runabout except that a few days ago, I got bounced off after hitting some raised ice hidden by a thin layer of snow. Its just not forgiving enough plus the cold affects the range quite significantly.

As replacement I'm thinking the lightest most compact wheel for agility & ease of riding in harsh conditions. I'm also thinking the least amt of investment possible because its gonna get beat up. So its down to the Inmotion V8f or the MCM5 V2. The M5 has the wider tire with 50% more range. The shell seems hardy enough as well plus its also faster with more juice for funner times.

Is my thinking wrong & if so, whats a better option?

Not a lot better you're gonna do on ice if you don't alter the tire tread significantly and/or up the weight of the wheel significantly (ideally both).

If the ice really is the concern, your MTen3 is probably gonna be the best of those other 2 wheels (stock vs stock; really, none of them are ideal) on ice going slow, since it's the widest tire of the 3, lowest pedals of the 3 (lower center of gravity for stability). Just that, the stock MTen3 tire unfortunately doesn't have much of an aggressive tread, and the more tread-y Ninebot Mini tire same rim size options are too wide to fit in the MTen3 (unless you cut the shell).

Edited December 17, 2020 by houseofjob

[Mrd777]

enjoyed a ride tonight here in nyc on mr. mcm5

 

[Scottie888]

@houseofjob ya that's what I thought. I tried looking for a tubeless knobby for the Mten3 but not much out there. Plus the 10" tire is too unforgiving. 

@Mrd777 Nice! Now's that a Canadian wheeler's idea of Winter Wonderland! That said, it does seem jusssss a tad extreme for a wuss like me. Anyhoos I gather you agree that the M5 is a good winter wheel👍

[AtlasP]

1 hour ago, houseofjob said:

Not sure why you would think an EUC with a thinner tire would do all that much better for snow/ice.

If you look at what kind of conditions / vehicles do better in snow, they tend to be/have:

• ...
• along the traction thinking, wider flatter tires (ala snowmobile)

This is literally backwards from what I've heard my entire life, at least *for snow* specifically. (I'm not sure for ice--but then for ice you're screwed either way.) While wider tires help produce more traction in normal conditions, for snow I always heard thinner tires are generally better as they are more likely to cut down through and achieve traction on the road surface, whereas flatter tires compact wide flat patches of snow under them and struggle to make contact with the actual road surface. (Basically the inverse reason why wide tires are really good for loose sand/gravel/etc.)

https://lmgtfy.app/#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=thinner vs wider tires for snow

I have no idea what the answer is for snow+ice, but for just snow/particularly good 'packing snow', thinner tires are likely better. (Maybe for very wet/slushy stuff it might swing the other way?)

Edit: link is to search results on the topic, not a single page, since it's easy to find people arguing for either case. I thought the swath of search results was more interesting as the majority of hits seemed to argue for thinner.

Edited December 17, 2020 by AtlasP

[houseofjob]

18 minutes ago, AtlasP said:

This is literally backwards from what I've heard my entire life, at least *for snow* specifically. (I'm not sure for ice--but then for ice you're screwed either way.) While wider tires help produce more traction in general conditions, generally for snow driving thinner tires are widely considered better as they are more likely to cut down through and achieve traction on the road surface, whereas flatter tires float overtop and compact wide flat patches of snow under them and never make contact with the actual road surface.

https://lmgtfy.app/#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=thinner vs wider tires for snow

Your same linked search points out that wider tires are better for packed snow. What you speak of is cutting through loose powder, which perhaps is the case, but I don't know any city where the snow remains not packed after first fall.

Either way, the width pales in comparison to having better tread and heavy weight over it.

Edited December 17, 2020 by houseofjob

[Scottie888]

11 minutes ago, AtlasP said:

Your point about thinner vs wider tires is literally backwards *for snow*. (I'm not sure for ice--for ice you're probably screwed either way.) Generally for snow driving thinner tires are widely considered better as they are more likely to cut down through and get traction on the road surface, whereas flatter tires float overtop and compact wide flat patches of snow under them and never make contact with the actual road surface.

https://lmgtfy.app/#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=thinner vs wider tires for snow

 

I think you're correct in general with all things being equal. Grooved winter specific tires with cold compound formulas alter this ratio somewhat. For wheels, I think its less of an issue due to the rounded tires having less of a float effect. For ice, there's nothing except studs for traction.

[AtlasP]

6 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Your same linked search points out that wider tires are better for packed snow. What you speak of is cutting through loose powder, which perhaps is the case, but I don't know any city where the snow remains not packed after first fall.

link is to search results on the topic, not a single page, since it's easy to find people arguing for either case. I thought the swath of search results was more interesting as the majority of hits seemed to argue for thinner. (Irrelevant of which page Google decided to show 1st vs 3rd or whatever.)

6 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Either way, the width pales in comparison to having better tread and heavy weight over it.

Certainly agree with this.

[houseofjob]

6 minutes ago, AtlasP said:

link is to search results on the topic, not a single page, since it's easy to find people arguing for either case. I thought the swath of search results was more interesting as the majority of hits seemed to argue for thinner. (Irrelevant of which page Google decided to show 1st vs 3rd or whatever.)

Well, since most everyone is parrot-ing the same thing online, it must be true right?  (I can think of sooo many publicly thought-to-be-true stuff that has been since proven wrong, one that comes to mind is the food pyramid of the 80's vs intermittent fasting .... heck, if you were on these forums back in 2015, an 18" EUC was basically a leper, regarded as too big and bulky and unmaneuverable, my how times have changed)

Edited December 17, 2020 by houseofjob

[houseofjob]

@Scottie888, just bribe @Niik01ay to sell you his 9.5" wide EUC prototype  (and ask him to sell me one too!)

 

[Scottie888]

35 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

@Scottie888, just bribe @Niik01ay to sell you his 9.5" wide EUC prototype  (and ask him to sell me one too!)

 

That's quite the beast!😆 If its good 'nuff for crazy Russkies in Siberia, its good 'nuff for me👍

[Tawpie]

The fat bikes that ride packed trails all have wide tires (4+ inches) with KNOBBY knobby tread, wide to not dig in so much and tread for obvious reasons. And they’re riding on packed trails. For the wet slushy stuff on a road, I’d go thin over wide for sure. Slush is slippery, you want to knife through it to the pavement rather than float on top. Ice = studs. Or a blizzack type compound (likely unobtanium in a not car tire, but who knows... motorcycles need winter tires too).

[meepmeepmayer]

Yea, for snow and slush, get a KNOBBY tire! That's what counts. Digs in like a hot knife through butter. (No tire will save you from black ice type stuff).

You could put a knobby tire on your Tesla.

[RetroThruster]

As an official mcm5 cheerleader, I'm gonna recommend it no matter what:)  For what it's worth, my mcm5 feels more like a larger mten3 than it does a smaller Nikola (full size heavier wheel), I think you'll benefit from it's nimbleness making corrections in low traction environment.  I have zero experience in riding in the snow/ice so just an uneducated opinion, but if I were to try, the mcm would be my first choice in my stable.

Edited December 17, 2020 by RetroThruster

[Scottie888]

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Yea, for snow and slush, get a KNOBBY tire! That's what counts. Digs in like a hot knife through butter. (No tire will save you from black ice type stuff).

You could put a knobby tire on your Tesla.

Meeps, any recommendation for a knobby to fit the Tesla? I've zero experience on tires & it will be my 1st time changing tires. That said, personally I still feel the Tesla is a tad heavy for what I want to do in winter. IMO the little Mten3 is perfect for a winter runabout except the 10x3 tire is very unforgiving. Any little mistake/s throws me out & the last time it did, my knees landed on some sharp & hard raised ice. Luckily knee pads saved me but it also made me realised I should get a bigger tire to handle the rough stuff.

2 hours ago, RetroThruster said:

As an official mcm5 cheerleader, I'm gonna recommend it no matter what:)  For what it's worth, my mcm5 feels more like a larger mten3 than it does a smaller Nikola (full size heavier wheel), I think you'll benefit from it's nimbleness making corrections in low traction environment.  I have zero experience in riding in the snow/ice so just an uneducated opinion, but if I were to try, the mcm would be my first choice in my stable.

A bigger Mten3 rather than a smaller Nikola (or Tesla) is exactly what I want. I love the nimbleness & agility of the Mten3 so if the M5 can duplicate that or at least come close, its what I'm looking for as a winter ride. Not so much in heavy inclement weather but just the ability to go outdoors & enjoy a ride at 10+ below is a great thing. I'm no where as hardcore as my fellow Albertan @winterwheel (at least not yet😅) so I cherry pick when to ride.

Far's winter riding goes, EUCs have a huge inherent advantage to bikes & scoots in that wheels have ABS & (to a lesser degree) TCS built in as part of the design. So in general, we don't have skidding or sliding when braking & wheels also don't spin their tires. As expected, turns & directional manoeuvres are where it gets sketchy & tires aside, a light(er) & more nimble wheel is better. So your "uneducated" opinion is a very educated & spot on IMHO👍

Speed is always good but at 10below on slick road with icy patches, 20mph is already a decent clip. Unlike summer, an hour at these temps is bordering on frostbite for me so here ultimate range isn't a priority. Plus I think there's no better value in a sub $1k wheel than the MCM5 which is why I think I'm gonna get me one asap.

[meepmeepmayer]

1 hour ago, Scottie888 said:

Meeps, any recommendation for a knobby to fit the Tesla?

No, sorry, I've had one twice but it is a bit thin-walled. Ok but I'm sure there's better.

1 hour ago, Scottie888 said:

I've zero experience on tires & it will be my 1st time changing tires.

It's going to be "fun".

1 hour ago, Scottie888 said:

That said, personally I still feel the Tesla is a tad heavy for what I want to do in winter. IMO the little Mten3 is perfect for a winter runabout except the 10x3 tire is very unforgiving.

Then just get the MCM5 at any rate

[Scottie888]

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

No, sorry, I've had one twice but it is a bit thin-walled. Ok but I'm sure there's better.

It's going to be "fun".

Then just get the MCM5 at any rate

Thought about the knobby for the Tesla but naaah. Its a lousy offroad wheel to begin with so why bother...."fun" though as a tire change maybe 😳

Just placed the order for the new MCM5 V2. I think it's gonna fit in my lifestyle just nicely & I get to tell the missus I "saved" $2k+ by not getting the EX (pun intended😅). I'm hoping she'll appreciate it in more ways than one.