Gotway Tesla V2 mod

[I_Must_Bust]

On 9/29/2020 at 2:17 PM, meepmeepmayer said:

This may not apply here, but if you order Ali -> Europe, often the shipping tracking info only starts when the package is in the hands of the European shipper and just a few days away from being delivered.

So you might just get no tracking info until the wheel has already been in the US for a few days and is only days away from you. Suddenly it appears and is in your hands soon after.

The alternative would be seriously delayed shipping by the seller. But if he has shipped and you have some kind of proof of that, I think you might just be in the loooong silent phase before a sudden rush of stuff happening.

This turned out to be exactly right. estimated delivery is on Friday now

[Scottie888]

3 hours ago, I_Must_Bust said:

gThis turned out to be exactly right. estimated delivery is on Friday now

Good for you brother, glad to know the anxiety is almost over😅. For us in the Great White North, riding season is basically done (excepting the odd days or if Indian Summer decides to visit &ofcos, the BC Pacific coast). That said, the lil' Mten3 is a ridonculous anomaly in that its actually fun riding in the cold. I took it out yesterday in the very low single digits (thats 32-40F for you yanks) & it was a blast. 

For once, it was more than just ok riding slow(er) & to be able ride plus fresh air is great. It was fun carving, doing spins & other whatnots. Even found a BNIB built outdoor rubberized basketball court that's awesome for practising tricks.

Glad I don't have to call it quits (as yet) for the year😁

[Mrd777]

Do we know the weight difference between the 1020wh, and the 1500wh  model?

[I_Must_Bust]

I also got the 1500wh version despite ordering when it still said 1480wh. Not sure 20wh was worth the extra wait but I'm happy to be learning to ride 

[Mrd777]

9 hours ago, I_Must_Bust said:

I also got the 1500wh version despite ordering when it still said 1480wh. Not sure 20wh was worth the extra wait but I'm happy to be learning to ride 

Great, can you weigh it for us? Thanks

[I_Must_Bust]

I don't have a scale but the spec sheet said 48 lbs for the 1480 I believe. Shouldn't be much more than that.

Edited October 21, 2020 by I_Must_Bust

[Scottie888]

On 10/18/2020 at 5:18 PM, Mrd777 said:

Do we know the weight difference between the 1020wh, and the 1500wh  model?

There you go...weight of my Tesla 1480 direct from the horses mouth, so to speak. Can't help with the 1500 version though 

 

Edited on: Just recalled (kinda) when I was doing my research on the Tesla this past spring that the weight diff btwn the 1020 & 1480 is ~1.5kg so lets make it 4lbs even which would make the 1020 42.5lbs or so. Hope it helps

Edited October 21, 2020 by Scottie888

[smallexis]

On 10/19/2020 at 1:18 AM, Mrd777 said:

Do we know the weight difference between the 1020wh, and the 1500wh  model?

just have a look at the ads

over weight is not due to the BMS

Edited October 25, 2020 by smallexis

[smallexis]

On 7/26/2020 at 12:02 PM, Pingouin said:

Of course I asked the seller how is the BMS & cells, he said they were new & BMS had balance like any other BMS, but I wanted to make sure.

This is the BMS used on 1480Wh version (size in centimeter), in many circumstances it is true that size is not the most important. But in this case, it must play anyway.

 

Non-existent thermal diffuser, "balancing track" with tiny resistors, fortunately it is the motherboard that limits the level of battery discharge. But for the load, the cells are on their own.

Just in oder to compare with original 1020Wh BMS (18cm x 13cm). HOW CAN THE SELLER SAY BALANCE FUNCTION IS LIKE IN OTHER BMS???

 

 

[Planemo]

42 minutes ago, smallexis said:

 in many circumstances it is true that size is not the most important. But in this case, it must play anyway.

To be fair, there is a lot of unused real estate on the GW boards. I believe they are only that big because they solder directly to the cell packs, rather than use multiple wires like most BMS's.

But yeah, I take your point

[bigrangetesla]

On 7/26/2020 at 1:02 PM, Pingouin said:

Hi guys !

After owning a Tesla V2 1480Wh for a few months but only starting riding it recently, I think I can finally share my thoughts & hopfully answer some questions about technical specifications regarding the custom battery.

Let's start by why I wanted this TS2 and not the 1020Wh. In 2017 I owned a Tesla V1, the first generation, first batch. It was a great EUC, performant and had useful stuff for the city (trolley handle..), it was also at the time the most silent Gotway on the market. After testing and/or owning more recent EUCs, like the Nikola +, MSX, Monster V3, KS16X which are fantastic EUCs to ride bringing a comfort level not possible with older generations, I wanted something more "old school" regarding the handling, something agile, not too heavy but that still had a great range.
The ACM 1600Wh that I owned was like that, but it's an old EUC and it's no longer produced, so this TS2 1480Wh was a no brainer if I wanted something that could be almost as portable as my V8 but with much longer range.

Before talking about how it handles, how it performs, I need to talk about the battery. I of course heard about some bad custom batteries that could in some conditions take fire, I also heard about some sellers maybe using used cells in their custom battery. Of course I asked the seller how is the BMS & cells, he said they were new & BMS had balance like any other BMS, but I wanted to make sure.
I had some people look after it, and also @LaserEdge , and my conclusions are that despite being a different design from gotway BMS, it's as good as gotways. It has a balance function, it protects the cells from over & under voltage. Regarding the cells themselves, they seem to be fine and not used, the references are li-ion NCA 21700T 18.5Wh, there are 80 in total (40 in each pack). My conclusion about the custom batteries is that they should last long and there shouldn't be more issues than with traditional gotway batteries, but I would still be very carful where I store the EUC and when it charges in order to prevent damage to you or your goods in case a fire would occur.

Now about the Tesla itself. It's not exactly the same as the other TS V2 I have seen so far. Why ? Because the speaker is different. It seems to be the same speaker as the ones on the MSP, it is not facing outwards through the speaker hole on the right side but it's facing inwards, to the motor. So far no issues. Also the speaker hole on the shell on the left side could let water through so you need to at least put some tape on it, it's a little design flaw in my opinion.

The speaker itself produces some "OK" sound, it could be a little louder because it's hard to hear if you go above 18mph. I don't use it much but it's good to know it's here if I need it.
The cut-off switch works perfectly, some riders said to me it's a little loose but it does it's job. The front light is the same as the ones on the MSP but there is only one unit. Still no rear light, I personaly added a rear light that is wired to the board so I don't have to think about charging an external light. Even if the light rings on the side can be seen from behind, I think that during night time this isn't enough for safety and I would have liked to see an improvement here.
The trolley is still the same as on the V1, I like it. It may be a little short for tall people but for me it's fine. Pedals are now colored in black like any other gotways, they are 13cm above the ground, so a little higher than on the MCM5 for example but still you will probably scrap them in sharp turns.

Now for the best part : how it rides !
This is where I love gotways, where they shine, and this TS2 is no different. Acceleration is powerful & smooth. The acceleration I got on the Tesla V1 is a little less than on the V2 but maybe I improved my skills. It does feel a little more powerful, control board is supposed to give a 30% increase in power, I can definitely feel it. Something new is that it beeps around 45kph/28mph when the V1 beeped at 48kph/29.5mph (NEW testings shows that it beeps at 47kph which is about the same), but from what I've seen is seems that the safety margin is just bigger and that the top speed is around 54kph/33.5mph (but not recommended at all). I don't ride above 30kph in general so it doesn't matter to me. For comparaison, the Nikola + I had accelerates to 25mph in 3.59s, MSX 84V in 3.81s and this TS2 in 3.51s. The main difference is that I don't have to lean as much with the TS2 because it has a smaller wheel diameter and it's lighter.
The motor is very silent (as much as a Nikola), it has no vibrations at any speed (I had some on my MCM5 & MS3) it's a 1900W not 2000W, but it's more than enough for most riders who need a great city commuter.
The best thing about this TS is that it handles like a charm. It is very easy to turn, almost no effort is needed unlike on bigger EUCs with "3" inch diameter wheels. The added weight compared to the V1 (about 2kg) is not noticable at all, it seems to be very balanced. The lower pedals have the advantage to give better stability at very slow speeds, making it easy to travel at walking speed, very convenient when you are in a flow of pedestrians.

The range is...excellent. With my testings as was able to get, at about 20kph/12.4mph speed 120km/74.5miles with 11% battery. I had a little headwind. Of course for long rides this EUC is not as comfortable as bigger EUCs with big wheels, or with suspensions or both, but it's not meant to be. I think that this is an EUC you get to have a great city commuter, that you can take with you in any store, in a car or a train, conveniently. You get a good speed, good breaking & acceleration performances with a very agile machine and you can still occasionaly go on longer rides. I would not recommend this TS for someone who want to do 50+ miles rides all the time, it can do it but it's not as comfortable.

To summerize, this TS2 1480Wh is an EUC that is meant to be ridden in the city. It is great for those who want an EUC that you can bring with you everywhere with ease. It can be a great upgrade for a KS16S, KS14S, ACM, Ninebot E+...for those who want good range out of a city wheel with the traditional 16x2.125 tire. It has all the things you want from a city EUC (speaker, cut-off, trolley, usb port) and it's minor design flaws are easy fixes. The custom batteries seems to be well made (don't take my word for it however and still be very careful especially during recharge) and should be long lasting.
I love this EUC after more than 500km, it's my go-to EUC, but of course no EUC is perfect and like I said, it's not meant for long journeys despite being able to, it's your pocket all-in-one EUC !

 

Hi . I have the same v2 with Tesla 21700 batteries / 1480kw/h.  Best commuter in its price category . Great wheel , if you dont want a motocross wheel - this is a trial wheel with A BIG BATTERY and POWER

[Mantraguy]

If it helps, my Tesla V2 1500Wh weighs exactly 43lbs (19.5kg). It's my first wheel and the one I'm learning on, so I don't have anything else to compare to, but after 9 days and 200km, I love it. The range is great (I'm up to 42km rides but the math works out for me to be able to do 100km on a charge; I'm only 130 lbs but it's very hilly here). I haven't found anything else comparable in range and power for less than about CAD$2500; I paid about $1600 so I couldn't be happier with the value. I'm charging to 80% most of the time, but will go to 100% to balance every 5th charge or so or when I need the maximum range. 

[I_Must_Bust]

2 hours ago, Mantraguy said:

If it helps, my Tesla V2 1500Wh weighs exactly 43lbs (19.5kg). It's my first wheel and the one I'm learning on, so I don't have anything else to compare to, but after 9 days and 200km, I love it. The range is great (I'm up to 42km rides but the math works out for me to be able to do 100km on a charge; I'm only 130 lbs but it's very hilly here). I haven't found anything else comparable in range and power for less than about CAD$2500; I paid about $1600 so I couldn't be happier with the value. I'm charging to 80% most of the time, but will go to 100% to balance every 5th charge or so or when I need the maximum range. 

Yep same thought process for me. I love that I can ride and ride all I want without any range anxiety. I would like to try a 3" wheel but the tesla is awesome!

[alcatraz]

Hey guys! Thinking about replicating the 1480Wh pack for my V1.

Are the packs 84v each or are they 42v each?

Does anyone know the cell pattern of the trolley handle side pack? How many cells are in the bottom layer and how many are in the top layer going over the trolley handle?

It seems that even the older thin pcb bms would make the pack too thick to stack on top of the cells. Can someone confirm?

Edited September 11, 2021 by alcatraz

[Mantraguy]

1 hour ago, alcatraz said:

Hey guys! Thinking about replicating the 1480Wh pack for my V1.

Are the packs 84v each or are they 42v each?

Does anyone know the cell pattern of the trolley handle side pack? How many cells are in the bottom layer and how many are in the top layer going over the trolley handle?

It seems that even the older thin pcb bms would make the pack too thick to stack on top of the cells. Can someone confirm?

I have the 1500Wh version (LG M50T cells) but I imagine the cell size and layout is the same; I'm not sure what cells the 1480Wh versions used.

I had to replace a few cells in one of my packs so I'm quite familiar with the overall layout. There are two packs, each consisting of 40 cells in a 10S4P configuration. However, there is only one BMS which handles the cell groups for both packs. My memory is foggy as to which pack is on which side but it's immediately obvious once you take the covers off. The BMS is on the side (not the face, but the top of the cells) and is only about 3" long by 2" wide. The cell groups on that pack are connected directly to the BMS, and there's an 11-pin connector that goes to the pack on the other side. On that side, things are a bit funky to fit around the trolley handle. Rather than having a 'normal' configuration where each cell is in alignment, there are two groups of (13 I think?) cells in one direction, with about 10 more perpendicular to this along the top of the pack, and 2 more on each side next to the trolley handles (does that add up to 40? Lol). All of this is made possible with a large PCB (printed circuit board) to which the cell tabs are soldered. Unfortunately for me, this is the side that my bad cells were on so I got quite familiar with rebuilding this pack (the other pack would have been much easier). I'll add a few photos to this post so you can see the layout of each pack.

In replacing the bad cells, I wanted to develop a way to check the balance of each cell group (one cell group is 4 cells in parallel; 20 of these groups are connected in series to make up the overall 20S4P configuration). Since the non-BMS side (the trolley handle side) can be easily checked with a voltmeter by disconnecting the 11-pin connector that goes to the BMS, and checking voltage between each pin and the one next to it. Because the connector is on the BMS side, you can do all of this from the non-trolley handle side. For the BMS pack, there is no such connector (cell groups are wired directly to the BMS, and those pads are all covered in that black silicone goop). So, I soldered on additional wires to each pack and made another 11-pin connector for that pack, for the sole purpose of checking balance with a voltmeter. So now, every few months or few 1000km, I remove the non-trolley side cover, disconnect the BMS connector, and quickly check group voltages to ensure each group is balanced. I tend to do this after a long ride (mostly discharged state), write down the cell group voltages (all 20 of them), then reconnect the BMS connector, charge the packs, and check voltages again. So far, everything is in good shape with all groups within 0.03V of each other. So, the photo of the main pack shows lots of extra little wires all over it - that's why.

The image below it the main (non-trolley-handle-side) pack. The BMS is secured with heavy-duty double-sided tape to the top of the pack (as photographed); you can just see the edge of it where all the wires go. The connector at top left is the one that goes to the other pack. The two XT60 connectors (yellow) connect to the other pack and the main board respectively. There's also a small black connector with 2 wires; that goes to the front charge port. Note that this photo was taken while I was getting the wires organized; I taped everything up securely with that green "barley paper" (battery insulation paper) and fibre tape before wrapping in new heat shrink once I was finished.

Below is the BMS - yes, it's quite small, and there's only one of them; it handles both packs. I replaced this as well; luckily it came with all the wires already soldered on, so I only had to solder the battery tab ends. The tabs on the BMS are pretty close together so I'm glad I didn't have to mess with that. The only ones I had to solder on were the main leads to the other pack, main board and charge port.

Below is the back of the trolley-handle-side pack; you can see a few cells top left on the other side of the PCB. Note that this is not a BMS - there's no real circuitry, it just connects each cell group in the right configuration as there are cells going every which way on the other side (ok it's not really that bad). You can't really see but the top piece of masking tape is covering up the 10 or 11 pads that have wires that go to the BMS on the other pack. That's the group of wires in the plastic sheath on the top right.

Here's a photo (below) of the main pack almost ready to go back in. At the bottom is the new connector I made for checking the voltage of each individual cell group. This pack is made up of 10 groups of 4 cells (10S4P) and each cell group is a lump of 4 (2 side by side connected to 2 behind them). The other pack is not nearly so easy to figure out; some of the cells in the same group of 4 are above or around a corner; it takes a bit to wrap your head around what's what.

Finally, here's the main pack and how it sits in the shell. This was a trial fitment to make sure everything fit well with no pinched wires etc. My new 'balance checking' connector is at the bottom, and hangs into the space near the bluetooth board, beepers etc.

 

Hope that helps clarify a few things! Feel free to shoot me any questions!

EDIT - I should also mention that there are a few plastic shell pieces that had been removed or altered slightly to make room for the larger packs. I think the seller was buying Tesla V2's from Gotway but without packs, and having these custom battery packs made to fit them with a bit of customization of the shell. I don't know how similar the Tesla V1 was/is, so I can't say if it would even be possible to make a pack like this to fit the Tesla. If you had a V2 and wanted to build a custom pack, it would be possible; your biggest challenge would be the trolley side PCB. Given the price of the replacement cells though, I'm not sure it would be worthwhile unless you had some 'ins' with the industry to get a hefty discount.

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by Mantraguy

[alcatraz]

Thank you for the very detailed reply. You've been very generous.

I have access to cheap 21700 panasonic tesla motors cells that I'm curious about using. I built a pack for my v8 that still is ticking along. That bms doesn't balance (broken) so it isn't a great build. I have to do it manually every 6-12 months. (But I never do a deep discharge so it's fine. The speed decrease we experience as the packs deplete actually somewhat protects us from discharging unbalanced packs past dangerous levels.)

Because I'm not sure I will need packs on both sides it disappoints me a bit that it's 2 x 42v. I won't be able to ride with just a 750Wh pack if I want to keep it nice and light, or if I need more time to finish the trolley handle side.

I am however happy about that circuit board on the trolley side. I know it's thinner than a bms but it does give me some hope that it might be possible to sneak a bms into the pack. I might do that.

Did you have to replace cells because of corrosion?

Edited September 12, 2021 by alcatraz

[alcatraz]

Obviously this is wrong for the top and bottom layer. If you have a moment maybe you could attempt a similar picture to show the cell organization.

Edited September 12, 2021 by alcatraz

[Mantraguy]

I seem to recall that it looks something like this:

 

Note that the black lines that cover the trolley handles are just single cells; the others (red lines) are pairs, one closer to you and one behind (although they're offset slightly to make the pack thinner). I'm not sure exactly how many cells are in each direction so the numbers of lines are somewhat random and don't indicate numbers of cells. I had to replace the two cells at the top left of the horizontally-configured ones, which meant removing half of that left bank. It turns out that one of the tabs (welded to the cells, then folded 90° and soldered to the PCB) had broken so I guess it was making intermittent contact with the board. Those 2 cells seemed to get discharged but not charged again, so the overall pack voltage was too low and it wouldn't charge at all. I found it odd at the time that those two cells were paired with two above it that ran in a different direction to make up a single cell group, but I guess they had to be a bit inventive to stuff all those cells in there! The Aliexpress seller sent me some new cells but shipped them with my new Sherman so I didn't get them for almost 6 months. I managed to find some online and bought them from a US seller, so I was able to fix it again fairly quickly (after buying a mini spot welder and a few other supplies). Works great now, no complaints.

Since you're effectively starting from scratch anyway, I think you should be able to build two, 20S2P packs and just run one until you get the other built - especially if you want to use a seperate BMS on each pack anyway.

Have fun and good luck! Would like to see what you come up with...

 

[alcatraz]

I'm currently working on the 16x3in tire upgrade for the tesla v1. Just took some measurements today so that I can make a plan. Pic attached.

After that, if successful, I have no choice but to build the 1500Wh packs to go along with the nice tire.

Last I checked, cells were a bit overpriced because of a lack of supply. So there's no rush really.

There are several options but I really sway towards Sanyo/Panasonic dispite them being repackaged tesla motor cells. They just have such great lifespan and perform well in varying conditions. Low voltage sag, etc.

I'm still undecided if I go with one bms = two 42v packs, or two bmss'. Aftermarket bms or original, hmm. That's the question. The tesla really desn't have the space needed for aftermarket bmss'.

Edited October 1, 2021 by alcatraz

[Mantraguy]

Yes, I had considered installing an aftermarket BMS in mine but decided against it. Space was the limiting factor, especially with those huge packs stuffed in there.

 

[bigrangetesla]

On 10/25/2020 at 12:35 PM, smallexis said:

just have a look at the ads

over weight is not due to the BMS

I got mine in april 2020 from Wheel Riders Store  with that 1480 Wh battery = now 7000 km done = great wheel without any trouble , good wheel for its price !

 

[alcatraz]

6 hours ago, Mantraguy said:

Yes, I had considered installing an aftermarket BMS in mine but decided against it. Space was the limiting factor, especially with those huge packs stuffed in there.

 

Besides, there are some wires from the control board that only go to a gotway bms. Can those be left unused I wonder?

About putting a bms in each pack, it annoys me that gotway original bmss' cost more than a very good bms (with amazing balancing currents, bluetooth, etc). It makes me want to make a pack with only one gotway bms, and then monitor the voltages myself every 6 months etc. (Which we all should do anyway, because trusting the bms to keep our homes safe could be foolish, they do break sometimes)

Edited October 1, 2021 by alcatraz

[Bronson]

I'm looking at getting the Tesla T3 as my first wheel. Is this just an upgrade from V2? Is it good for a first wheel? Could a kid ride it?

[meepmeepmayer]

5 minutes ago, Bronson said:

I'm looking at getting the Tesla T3 as my first wheel. Is this just an upgrade from V2?

It's more or less a V2 with a bigger battery (1500Wh vs. 1020Wh) due to the changed battery type used.

5 minutes ago, Bronson said:

Is it good for a first wheel?

Certainly!

5 minutes ago, Bronson said:

Could a kid ride it?

I think so. It's compact.

[Bronson]

Thanks. I just saw a review mentioning a whining motor sound for the V3. Is this something that could be fixed?