Damn, this is effing hard... lol

[.....]

Just remember, these wheels are being marketed as a great mobility device for the masses. I keep reading mention of how these would make a perfect way for the daily commuter to get to work and not need a car. For me, I call total bullshit. Riding an euc isnt the most challenging thing in the world, but can we all honestly say that we think the MAJORITY of adult men and women could just jump on one and learn to have it replace the cars they still cant hardly figure out how to control? Imo, just your thread title, pretty much solidifies my opinion of how likely the euc is to become a widely used vehicle to transport the masses. Hell, we have bicycles for decades... a vast % of the population here, can't ride them safely nor would even consider replacing their rolling phone booth with one, to get to work, especially on 'non perfect' weather days!

What kind of parks, @Albatross Are you thinking like off road federal parks, or your typical flat grass park? Skate parks? There are so many good choices now, it's best to think REALLY hard at your intent and focus on that. Paved bike trails and nice parks would be a little different beast than offroad bike trails and natl forestry parks. Personally, I think you need 3-12 wheels, one for each terrain style and mood.

Edited May 6, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Maartenv]

You still have quite the learning curve left on your ninebot, so there's no rush. Read up on the forum I would say, to narrow it down to a few options?

All I can say is how much I personally LOVE my msx, because of how it performs on a variety of surfaces. But indeed, there's a lot of good options out there nowadays.

[Maartenv]

1 hour ago, ShanesPlanet said:

"I keep reading mention of how these would make a perfect way for the daily commuter to get to work and not need a car. For me, I call total bullshit. Riding an euc isnt the most challenging thing in the world, but can we all honestly say that we think the MAJORITY of adult men and women could just jump on one and learn to have it replace the cars they still cant hardly figure out how to control? Imo, just your thread title, pretty much solidifies my opinion of how likely the euc is to become a widely used vehicle to transport the masses. Hell, we have bicycles for decades... a vast % of the population here, can't ride them safely nor would even consider replacing their rolling phone booth with one, to get to work, especially on 'non perfect' weather days!"

I've thought about that a lot. I've taught my children to cycle. For some it comes natural, but for others.. My daughter has put a lot of effort into it before she could cycle (sometime between the age of 5 and 6). And still, at ago 10, she still has a lot to learn. In my city we actually founded a cycling school for adults a few years ago (among others we have a large inflow of foreign students from all over the world, and cycling is the main mode of transportation here), and every year we have about 100 people that learn to ride a bike there. And o boy, cycling is difficult for adults. A lot more difficult than when you are 5.

Now having about 700kms on my wheel, I'm starting to feel comfortable. I wonder if there would be a difference with a bike. Is the one more or less safe than the other? With the same amount of training and getting used to invested, I'm not 100% sure that a bicycle is per definition the safer option. For example, we've got some muddy paths in the neighborhood on which I actually feel safer now on my EUC than on my bicycle. On my EUC I do ride differently I admit: keep more distance, anticipate traffic more,...

And I do think that some wheels are safer than others. Bigger tires, higher torque and motor-power (no cut-offs) and suspension (in the near future) make for a safer ride.

[.....]

Bicycles are without a doubt, the safer alternative. You can call me out on this as I have no evidence, but I stand behind my opinion of this. Take 2 VERY skilled riders of an euc and a bicycle. Force them to ride in dangerous and unpredictable conditions(busy city streets perhaps?). I have a feeling the  detail of having 2 wheels and 2 brakes, offers a little more level of control and stopping ability, than one wheel. Just the mechanics of it all, makes me think bicycles win. Of course safety also includes a riders ability to make choices and I'd imagine the rider is a HUGE factor, sometimes even more so than the actual physics behind either vehicle. I've yet to see an euc successfully beat a bicycle down a xtreme games downhill bike track. Ive seen bicycles stop as fast as their TWO wheels worth of contact patch, can handle. Ive seen bikes continue to ride on flat tires. I've seen bikes ride on one wheel for a mile. Ive seen bikes carry multiple adults. Ive seen bikes easily go 50mph+ and sustain it. Can your euc easily manage a tall speed bump at 30mph without risking tossing the rider? My bicycle can.. I LOVE my euc, but if I HAD to get somewhere fast and safely on unknown terrain... bicycle it is.  NEVER has my bicycle cutout for a faceplant either. My goal is fun and even owning an euc means that 'safety' wasnt my primary concern. I dont know whats harder to learn, as I learned a bike at 3yrs old. But as to which is more stable... bicycles ftw! as usual, rambling and derails courtesy o da shano.

Edited May 6, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[rolekl]

I'm not so sure... I guess I'll have to disagree just for the sake of the argument :-)

I'm a newbie on my wheel and quite an experienced cyclist, having done road riding, mtb riding and commuting a couple of years. Of course I feel more secure commuting through a busy town on the bike, but I don't think that's got so much to do with the vehicle as such, more with experience / mileage on said vehicle. If I'd do 5000km / 3000 miles per year on the wheel as I've done cycling for a while, I'm sure the skill level would be much more even. Controlling the wheel is quite intuitive, almost more so than cycling.

[svenomous]

I've had a serious accident on my wheel.  I've had minor accidents on my bike. I'll never be a great EUC or bike rider, but I've had enough experiences on both (hundreds of miles on the EUC, many thousands on bikes) to feel ready to claim that I agree with @ShanesPlanet. A unicycle (electric or otherwise) is inherently less stable than a bicycle. Has less braking ability. Is more likely to throw the rider to the ground with little provocation. Is highly dependent on a delicate dance of battery/firmware/MOSFETs/motor/physics and human skill/balance. A well-maintained bike is a mature, well-proven technology that provides reliable transportation. As far as I'm concerned, it's a risk management thing.  The bike has risks, in that an accident is more likely to be serious or even fatal (no airbags, no roll cage, no crumple zones, no seatbelts, and far far far less mass than the SUV on the other side of the accident). the same is true for an EUC for the same reasons, with additional factors that increase the risk further.  Mitigation includes managing the environment and conditions. I ride the bike in any weather, and try to be very attentive to environment and traffic. I ride the EUC only in good weather, and not nearly as fast as it's capable of going, and when I do commute on roads (vs. trails) I do it slowly and carefully, and with lots of gear on.

[Maartenv]

You're all correct, obviously. But I do believe that there are circumstances in which an EUC has advantages compared to a bike, and that with enough skill and experience it isn't necessarily several orders of magnitudes less safe than a bike.

And I most likely didn't crash enough to be fully aware of the dangers (I only feel once, on day one, on my back; and the second fall I could just run off). That's it.

Since then, nothing. So I guess I'm very lucky (and careful).

Biggest + for me is uphill-performance. I live on top of a steep slope, and even with an e-bike it's challenging. Euc? No problem, easy peasy.

And in city traffic; I'm much narrower than with my bike, so it's a lot more fluent to get from a to b. And when passing traffic (slow bikes) it's a lot easier (and natural) to accelerate and safely pass.

And I suppose that people act more careful around me than when I'm cycling, just because they're not used to see EUC's.

[svenomous]

I've experienced the advantages of riding an EUC, including effortless uphill and the ability to maneuver even on foot paths. I've experienced cars/drivers giving me a wide berth and lots of consideration, due to the strangeness/novelty factor of seeing me on that strange alien sideways Roomba. OTOH I've also had cars, bicycles, and pedestrians act unpredictably around me, including swerving toward me unintentionally after being surprised by my presence and appearance, or simply underestimating my speed and trajectory due to me looking sort of like a pedestrian but moving as fast as a bike. My big fall was a wheel dynamics thing, a powerful downhill wobble I could not control, at speed, on a busy road's shoulder right next to a lot of traffic.  I got very lucky to walk away from that one with only half my butt scraped off and a fractured left radius.  I could also have gotten run over if I'd fallen the wrong way, or what's worse, I could've caused a secondary accident by having my wheel veer left into the traffic after I had departed it. It did continue without me for at least 30ft before veering right and embedding itself in tall grass.

I guess my point is that anything you do has certain risks, including crossing the street on foot, driving a car, taking a bath, and eating too many carbs.  We weigh risk against benefit, and mitigate where we can, and we live our lives because otherwise what's the point? I ride my bike with some caution, and I ride my wheel with more caution (and more gear). I know both are more dangerous than driving, and driving is more dangerous than sitting on my couch at home.  Oh well.

[Albatross]

Went out to practice today. Was covered in sweat and out of breath at around 45 minutes. I missed a day because of bad weather.  Read somewhere that lower tire pressure is good to learn on. Took some air out. Maybe I took too much out, because the wheel was not responding as quickly as usual. What I mean it took longer to start accelerating.  I couldn’t gin past 10-15 feet today.  Half of the time I actually stopped the wheel before getting off and half of that I was getting off work With my right (dominant) foot instead of my left.  Felt like I took two steps back from my last session.  BUMMER...

[Scottie]

Don't worry about a bad day. Progress is not always a steady thing. Some days our bodies do not perform as well as others. And you went with lower tire pressure.

Next time you go at it, make sure  you are rested. Put the tire pressure back near what it was before. It might be too early to change things up like that. Wait until you are getting around confidently before making such changes. One day soon, you will amaze yourself. Then there will be 'no stopping you'! 

[svenomous]

Agreed. Everyone has setbacks in learning/training. Having days with breakthroughs, and other days where progress seems to have gone backward, is normal. If things just aren't clicking, either fall back to simpler exercises (like the half moons or skates), or call it a day and come back at it a few hours or a day later.

[Albatross]

Watched a few videos yesterday, which led  me to believe that being able to stand on the wheel on one leg is essential to being able to mount correctly. In these videos people conditioned their legs by doing the usual drills that most videos display and then a few hours later or next day they were riding. Kids went to sleep last night and I went into garage to practice mounting the wheel. Did an hour and a half of getting on and off the wheel, half moons, etc.. Woke up today with my right shin and knee soar as heck. Had a pretty crazy day at the office and when I finally got home, it was pouring, so no practicing outside. Kids just went to sleep and I went back to the garage for half an hour. I am nowhere close to be able to stand on one leg on the wheel,  I mean not at all. I got used to the pain in my leg when I do half moons and drive the wheel in circles while I stand on my left leg, but I’m so frustrated that I can’t even do a shuffle. This is f@&king with my confidence. Am I an invalid or just overthinking this? Why am I not getting this?  Suppose to be nice outside tomorrow, I’m getting up before anyone in my home to go out practicing outside. 

[.....]

I smoothly mount and dismount (well usually), and am unable to ride one footed for very long. With one of my legs,  I cant  hardly at all. It isnt as much a balance issue, as my knee/ankle don't particularly like it. Its just a LOT of undue pressure to lock in to it. I wouldnt focus so much on riding one leg as just start and stop. Of course, one leg is part of it, but dont jump to conclude that you need to ride one legged for long, JUST to be stable at riding and start/stop. Focus on the start/stop and the ride for now. I'd imagine THIS will be easier on you and prove more fun. If you overdo it by trying something a little rough on the ole body, you may not progress as smoothly as if you take those baby steps and condition in a more linear fashion. Honestly, I'd rather ride backwards in circles, than ride one legged for long at all. A lot of us started video of ourselves as soon as we got our wheels. I dont recall seeing a lot of them with one legged riders and very little time/miles on it. Learn what you want, just don't fall into the trap of thinking you MUST fully learn one thing before being able to learn another.  I'd imagine theres a few riders here with 1000's of miles and have yet to bother riding one legged for very long. I just don't see it as an overly usefull skill for the daily commuter. Learn it by all means, but dont let it get in the way of learning and enjoying the 'bread and butter' of the comfortable 'normal' ride. Don't underestimate what adrenaline and rolling does, to how you handle the wheel. Just my $.02

Edited May 9, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Albatross]

7 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I smoothly mount and dismount (well usually), and am unable to ride one footed for very long. One one leg I cant ride hardly at all. It isnt as much a balance issue, as my knees don't particularly like it. I wouldnt focus so much on riding one leg as just start and stop. Of course, one leg is part of it, but dont jump to conclude that you need to ride one legged for long, JUST to be stable at riding and start/stop. Focus on the start/stop and the ride for now. I'd imagine THIS will be easier on you and prove more fun. If you overdo it by trying something a little rough on the ole body, you may not progress as smoothly as if you take those baby steps and condition in a more linear fashion. Honestly, I'd rather ride backwards in circles, than ride one legged for long at all. A lot of us started video of ourselves as soon as we got our wheels. I dont recall seeing a lot of them with one legged riders and very little time/miles on it. Learn what you want, just don't fall into the trap of thinking you MUST learn one thing before being able to learn another.  Just my $.02

I have two nice days ahead. I demand major improvement from myself by the end of the weekend lol. 

[.....]

24 minutes ago, Albatross said:

I have two nice days ahead. I demand major improvement from myself by the end of the weekend lol. 

Don't micro-manage yourself too much. You are new(as am I), we can use a little practice in ALL the areas. With sunlight and enjoyment, youll progress naturally as most of us are. Get rolling, and enjoy. Start/stop regularly, but ride baby ride(I know, hard to do in a basement, i feel you). I am trying to figure out how to ride my mten in my basement as it rains a LOT here. Gna be dangerous(3" headroom and crap everywhere) and great for slow speed skill, enhancing my ability to learn more quickly outside.Simply riding is conditioning you to be able to do ALL the things you are intent on focusing on atm. Riding is conditioning your knees and ankles and balance. The same thing needed for EVERY DAMN THING on an euc. By simply riding and then riding very slowly, I am getting to the part of the learning curve where it is exponential. It took 3 tries to learn to jump curbs on my mten. Why? Because I laid down a LOT of hours of fun on streets with NO curbs. Riding thru yards, playing in place, all built me up to tackle the curbs and I wasnt even trying to learn it. ALL the skills stack on each other. For now, practice on the skills that you will enjoy, and the ones that are lowest impact. Once we reach a certain point in coordination and muscle tone, these 'harder' things will be much easier and we progress in an exponential factor, not linear. You must be comparing yourself to people you see on youtube. DO you think MOST people are recording and showing you the embarrassing and pathetic attempts they had in the beginning? My legs turned yellow for a week. My shins hurt badly enough I had to quit for 3 days, at one point. Ffwd a lazy month of 20mins a day and now I can push a little harder with no pain. Dont be so hard on yourself, its YOUR journey and with luck, youll have time to enjoy it. I enjoy even the failing.  On the euc, I expect to have fun.  Im also the only one around here and already the best in the neighborhood

Edited May 9, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Albatross]

19 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Don't micro-manage yourself too much. You are new(as am I), we can use a little practice in ALL the areas. With sunlight and enjoyment, youll progress naturally as most of us are. Get rolling, and enjoy. Start/stop regularly, but ride baby ride(I know, hard to do in a basement, i feel you). I am trying to figure out how to ride my mten in my basement as it rains a LOT here. Gna be dangerous(3" headroom and crap everywhere) and great for slow speed skill, enhancing my ability to learn more quickly outside.Simply riding is conditioning you to be able to do ALL the things you are intent on focusing on atm. Riding is conditioning your knees and ankles and balance. The same thing needed for EVERY DAMN THING on an euc. By simply riding and then riding very slowly, I am getting to the part of the learning curve where it is exponential. It took 3 tries to learn to jump curbs on my mten. Why? Because I laid down a LOT of hours of fun on streets with NO curbs. Riding thru yards, playing in place, all built me up to tackle the curbs and I wasnt even trying to learn it. ALL the skills stack on each other. For now, practice on the skills that you will enjoy, and the ones that are lowest impact. Once we reach a certain point in coordination and muscle tone, these 'harder' things will be much easier and we progress in an exponential factor, not linear. You must be comparing yourself to people you see on youtube. DO you think MOST people are recording and showing you the embarrassing and pathetic attempts they had in the beginning? My legs turned yellow for a week. My shins hurt badly enough I had to quit for 3 days, at one point. Ffwd a lazy month of 20mins a day and now I can push a little harder with no pain. Dont be so hard on yourself, its YOUR journey and with luck, youll have time to enjoy it. I enjoy even the failing.  On the euc, I expect to have fun.  Im also the only one around here and already the best in the neighborhood

When I said riding on one leg, I didn’t mean doing figure eights or any other cool stuff that people are doing on YouTube on one leg. I mean being able to push off with one foot and move the wheel forward a few feet with The other (dominant) foot on it.  So to be able to casually place the second foot on the pedal. Right now I basically jump my left foot on. 

[John Montpetit]

In the basement??? That’s incredible. 

[.....]

12 minutes ago, Albatross said:

When I said riding on one leg, I didn’t mean doing figure eights or any other cool stuff that people are doing on YouTube on one leg. I mean being able to push off with one foot and move the wheel forward a few feet with The other (dominant) foot on it.  So to be able to casually place the second foot on the pedal. Right now I basically jump my left foot on. 

ah, that. Youll get the rolling start over time. Try bending more at the knee with it forward on the wheel a little. I still sometimes hop onto the mten. Youll get it, just dont rush, as I think its also a muscle conditioning thing, and muscles dont build as fast as we'd like. I learned rolling start on accident after miles and miles of hop/still starts and half fails. Kinda like a skateboard, only MUCH harder.

@John Montpetit The mten is funny like that. You can ride it around in a 10x12' room if you wanted. Prolly be tough on the coffee table tho.. Im still a little way away from trying anything like that on a big ole 18". Prolly tougher in an apartment in Queens.

Edited May 9, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Albatross]

No basement for me. I’ve managed to do some drills on my deck and hop on, hop off with support in the garage. Otherwise mostly practice on the street in front of my house or at Warminster Community Park, which used to be an air naval base and has a nice decommissioned landing strip with plenty of room to move. 

[Scottie]

@ShanesPlanet is making a lot of sense here. It is great to have goals ... sure. But don't set your sights so high, that can set you up for disappointment. Have fun with it. Let it come more naturally. Do the drills, but I think you are driving yourself too hard doing one thing at a time for an hour or so. For example, when you are out practicing, stop and do maybe a few mounts/dismounts at a time and then just ride a bit. Then go off in the grass for just a few yards, then practice turning, etc. Break it up.

Those guys that can casually delay bringing up their trailing foot have been at it for a long time. Just hop on like you do and go. As your legs become stronger and more steady from just riding, you will naturally be able to do more amazing things as your conditioning naturally improves.

This is coming from a guy that just got up and going a few months ago, last January and February, so all this is still fresh in my mind. Now that I'm up and riding, while  out riding, I'm adding a little something to each ride, and am getting more control and endurance while having fun with it.

Edited May 9, 2020 by Scottie

[Albatross]

Just purchased a used v8f with under 100 miles on it. Should be here in a week or so. From all the research that I’ve done, reading on forum and watching YouTube, I think this wheel is going to be great for me. 
 

Going to try to practice everyday on the E+ before the v8f arrives and hoping that a larger wheel and pedals will help with the learning curve. 
 

Planning to teach my 9 year old how to ride, after I learn of cause, give him the e+ and start a nice activity that him and I can do together this summer. 
 

 

[Albatross]

And another disappointing day practicing. Can’t seem to stay in a straight line.  Mount the wheel start moving forward and  then start side to side. Was able to stop and not jump off the wheel most of times, but mostly getting off with my right foot instead of my left. Just doesn’t feel like I’m even close. Bummer, again. Only lasted about 40 minutes today. It’s cold and very windy.   Be back at it tomorrow morning. 

[tessa25]

Do you know what speed you're going? Maybe you need to go a smidge faster. Like a bicycle. Put the tire pressure back to it's original level if you haven't done that yet. I once lowered pressure and couldn't stay straight. pumped it back up and all was good.

[Albatross]

4 minutes ago, tessa25 said:

Do you know what speed you're going? Maybe you need to go a smidge faster. Like a bicycle. Put the tire pressure back to it's original level if you haven't done that yet. I once lowered pressure and couldn't stay straight. pumped it back up and all was good.

I have the pressure back up to 35. The manual recommends 35-45 I think. I don’t know how fast I was going. Will try to go faster tomorrow.

[Maartenv]

(Off-topic): nice, a la chouffe fan!