Popular Post BoseHeadphones Posted April 27, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted April 27, 2020 Unexpected birthday present, my MSP (2500w "high-torque") showed up a couple days ahead of schedule! TL;DR at the end, otherwise a few pre-ride observations: Praise be, the startup chimes are gone. It does still beep when powered on but that's it. Blissful silence afterwards. Batteries at 85% charge--hot damn, ready to rumble. Tire came at 8 PSI. Bumped it to 30 psi to start with, that's usually what I ride my Nikola at. Both pedals take a few kicks to unstick and fold up. Left pedal especially so. The seat was pushing the cutoff button. A minute with a dremel to make a button-ish depression sorted that out. After unboxing I took it for a quick spin. It quickly gave me appreciation for how much I had gotten used to the pads on my 84v Nikola, the naked MSP took a lot of effort to accelerate and brake. I expected as much, so I came in and slapped on some 3d printed "powerpads" that were meant to improve on the stock Gotway pads (along with 3d printed front and rear bumpers, kudos to @Willy510 for posting the designs, and kudos to EUCGuy for the stand design): They were marginally better, but I still had to really pinch the wheel to get any leverage on the pads. Took a quick arts and crafts break to put together some baby foam bumpers: Working much better for me. Still taking more work than my Nikola to accelerate and brake, but not by much. Looking forward to my MonoCustomize pads in the mail. With the major comforts taken care of, I took it for an 18 mile jaunt to visit a friend across town. It's about 1 mile of streets and then 17 nice miles of bike path for me to get acquainted with the wheel. Some thoughts I recall having: Crap. Too used to the Nikola pedal height, I nearly kicked up the right pedal and ate it just trying to get on the wheel. The higher pedal height is causing me to feel a bit more stilty--I don't feel as in control when doing 180s. The pedal angle is a touch higher than my Nikola, but it's not any less comfortable. It does feel a little more locked in. First major point in the Nikola's favor--one legged riding is painful on the MSP. The slope of the Nikola nicely distributes the pressure, the MSP has one edge making contact with my calf. Not something I seriously worry about, I'll wait to see if the MonoCustomize pads provide enough cushion to address this. It's remarkable how much the bigger tire changes the ride dynamic. Bumps and potholes that were dangerous to my Nikola were just unpleasant on the MSP. Consequence of the smoothness--I was cruising noticeably faster than I normally would. Parts of the path I'd normally cruise at 25 mph in the Nikola were comfortable at 30 mph on the MSP, and I'm barely acclimated to the wheel. Speaking of smooth, the motor. At very, very low speeds you can still feel the magnets snapping into place but it's not as noticable as the Nikola, and it's overall much quieter. Arrived at my friends house with my feet sore, but no better or worse than when I make the trip on my Nikola. Plugged the wheel in to charge and had a nice dinner. A steak and a beer later and suddenly the suns down and I'm making the return trip at night. The headlights are fantastic. Nikola headlights are adequate, but I still like to carry a flashlight. I'm completely comfortable just using the MSP headlights on their own. With one demerit... Guilt mounts with every incoming cyclist/pedestrian that throw their hands up to prevent being blinded. I'm going to start looking at some options to put hood on the lights so they don't throw upwards as much. Minor quibble, I wish there was a bit more sideways throw--in curvy sections, I'm having to slow down and wait for the headlights whip around to make sure the coast is clear. In the last couple miles of the return trip I finally hear my first beeps. Going ~32 mph with the battery at ~25%. All in all, had a great day: Not meant to be a range test, way too many variables. I started at ~85% and had charged it a couple hours halfway through the ride. My only take away is the MSP had enough juice for me to have all my fun and only run into the 80% beeps once. Took a picture of the pedals to try and confirm that the MSP has a slightly higher pedal angle (piled up cardboard in a janky attempt to try to get the pedals to line up better): TL;DR: The startup chime is gone! Aside from some minor setup quibbles, this is quickly shaping up to be my favorite wheel. I love my Nikola, but right out of the box the MSP improves on (nearly) everything I loved about NIkola. Pros: Comfort: the 2" of extra wheel make a big difference in how rough bumps and potholes are. And I'm there's still room to improve as I tweak the PSI, I haven't touched it after initially pumping it up to 30lbs. Stability: I feel as comfortable cruising at 30mph on the MSP as I do at 25mph on the Nikola. Headlights: they are fantastically bright. On the MSP I can definitely live without a flashlight (though on twisty paths I'd still carry one). Cons: Headlights: blind all incoming traffic. I'll be playing around with options to mitigate this, last night I'm hoping everyone was too stunned to ID what I was riding and lodge a formal complaint. Trolley is a step backwards. I can't picture a situation where I'd lose control of my Nikola, but I zoned out for a second and almost trolleyed the MSP into a wall. I expect that risk to go down as I get used to it. Low-speed maneuvers take a bit more concentration--I really feel the wheel whip around trying to do tight 180s. Neutral: Acceleration: I definitely have to work harder to really take off on the MSP, but it feels just as zippy as the Nikola once it gets going. Power: I have managed to overlean all my other wheels from a dig, but not the MSP...yet. Jury's definitely still out, I didn't manage to overlean the others on day 1 either. Cutoff switch: the MSP handle is more comfortable to carry, but the NIkola's under-handle cutoff sensor is easier to use. Seat: still need to try it. I was having too much fun riding the wheel. Sticky pedals: hoping the pedals work themselves out over time, out of the box just a minor annoyance. I'm usually cruising on my EUC which is where the MSP's improvements to ride quality really shine. I look forward to getting used to the wheel and hitting some nearby MTB trails. My only fear is that I get so used to the MSP that I regret not getting the high-speed version...we'll see. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willy510 Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 I was watching a U-Stride youtube video review and the sticky left pedal is actually a feature, looks like you can use it as a kickstand on the left side 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoseHeadphones Posted April 27, 2020 Author Share Posted April 27, 2020 6 hours ago, Willy510 said: I was watching a U-Stride youtube video review and the sticky left pedal is actually a feature, looks like you can use it as a kickstand on the left side I'm getting increasingly skeptical that sticky pedals are intentional--day 2 after a dozen or so folds neither pedal is sticking much. It went from 3-4 kicks down to usually folding up on the first try. I do think it could be a neat feature if it was designed to reliably work that way, but with the rear mudguard/stand installed I'd prefer they just folded up cleanly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyTop Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 (edited) @Jason McNeil or anyone that would know. The post above refers to “eWheels 2500 w configuration. The wheel pictured has the Nikola style pedals. The eWheel’s website shows the standard pedals and does not mention the Nikola pedals. Do the Nikola pedals come standard on the second batch of MSP from eWheels? I understand that many people would not understand the Nikola pedal reference on the website. Edited April 28, 2020 by RockyTop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xorbe Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 (edited) The eWheels website could use a bit of a refresh wrt up-to-date information on quite a few pages ... Edited April 28, 2020 by xorbe typo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoseHeadphones Posted April 28, 2020 Author Share Posted April 28, 2020 2 hours ago, RockyTop said: @Jason McNeil or anyone that would know. The post above refers to “eWheels 2500 w configuration. The wheel pictured has the Nikola style pedals. The eWheel’s website shows the standard pedals and does not mention the Nikola pedals. Do the Nikola pedals come standard on the second batch of MSP from eWheels? I understand that many people would not understand the Nikola pedal reference on the website. It's buried in the FAQ, but they are pretty clear about the eWheels configuration having Nikola pedals: Quote The pictures show a steep inward pedal banking angle, will this the case on the production MSX Pro? Our MSX Pros will be fitted with the larger profiled black Nikola pedals, with a more tame inward banking angle of 7-10°. That was one of the reasons I went for the MSP from eWheels, I really like the Nikola pedals. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HippoPig Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 (edited) On 4/27/2020 at 11:09 AM, BoseHeadphones said: TL;DR: The startup chime is gone! Wow! I REALLY hope my wheel arrives with this update. The chime almost stopped me purchasing! Do e wheels file down the Nikola pedals to fit them, or just leave them as-is with a tighter angle? Edited April 29, 2020 by HippoPig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoseHeadphones Posted April 29, 2020 Author Share Posted April 29, 2020 4 hours ago, HippoPig said: Wow! I REALLY hope my wheel arrives with this update. The chime almost stopped me purchasing! I know on the Wrong Way review the startup chime was still there. They might've universally disabled it when they ramped up production (which would be awesome!), but I suspect it's specific to the eWheels batch. 5 hours ago, HippoPig said: Do e wheels file down the Nikola pedals to fit them, or just leave them as-is with a tighter angle? I'm unclear on what that means--for them to be as-is with a tighter angle. Neither the pedals or the peg they attach to look like they've been filed, I'm guessing the pegs are configured with a lower (relative to the MSX) angle from the factory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HippoPig Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 1 hour ago, BoseHeadphones said: I know on the Wrong Way review the startup chime was still there. They might've universally disabled it when they ramped up production (which would be awesome!), but I suspect it's specific to the eWheels batch. I hope it’s universally disabled. Mines the MSS so not sure if that means newer MSP or older. 1 hour ago, BoseHeadphones said: I'm unclear on what that means--for them to be as-is with a tighter angle. Neither the pedals or the peg they attach to look like they've been filed, I'm guessing the pegs are configured with a lower (relative to the MSX) angle from the factory. From what I’ve read, the Nikola pedals don’t go on any MS wheel post new-rear-light-MSX without having to be filed down (either pedal or peg). Id be curious to know if Jason is on here, as I’ve ordered Nikola pedals to fit and I’m expecting I’ll have to file them down 😩 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preston Palmer Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 (edited) @BoseHeadphones When did you order your MonoCustomize pads? According to tracking mine have been sitting in the Russian transic of exchange since 4/24... I hope they arrive mid-May when my MSP does! Edited May 3, 2020 by Preston Palmer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preston Palmer Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 On 4/27/2020 at 9:53 AM, Willy510 said: I was watching a U-Stride youtube video review and the sticky left pedal is actually a feature, looks like you can use it as a kickstand on the left side Interesting... If this is by design it could be a nice feature rather than laying it flat down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preston Palmer Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 On 4/28/2020 at 11:29 AM, xorbe said: The eWheels website could use a bit of a refresh wrt up-to-date information on quite a few pages ... Agreed. Jason needs one of us to take care of that for him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preston Palmer Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 (edited) On 4/27/2020 at 5:09 AM, BoseHeadphones said: ....my only fear is that I get so used to the MSP that I regret not getting the high-speed version...we'll see. I had the same thought. But in the long run I think I want the torque for off road... ? We might have to buy both! Edited May 3, 2020 by Preston Palmer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xorbe Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 Has anyone ridden all of MSP, MSX, MCM5, and Nikola? I have come to the conclusion that I prefer calm acceleration like the Nikola, it's so easy and pleasant to ride. And that I don't like the fireball MCM5 that rockets off with the tiniest input. Where does the MSP fall? I saw KujiRoll mentioned a response delay, so perhaps the MSP doesn't rocket off wildly like the MCM5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ádám Szitás Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 1 hour ago, xorbe said: Has anyone ridden all of MSP, MSX, MCM5, and Nikola? I have come to the conclusion that I prefer calm acceleration like the Nikola, it's so easy and pleasant to ride. And that I don't like the fireball MCM5 that rockets off with the tiniest input. Where does the MSP fall? I saw KujiRoll mentioned a response delay, so perhaps the MSP doesn't rocket off wildly like the MCM5. I did. Bigger Diameter wheels always need more input, its much more comparable in acceleration to the nikola than it is to the mcm5. The difference is that it accelerates, brakes faster if you give it enough input. For me personally without power pads yet, it is mcm5->msp->nikola->msx 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoseHeadphones Posted May 3, 2020 Author Share Posted May 3, 2020 6 hours ago, Preston Palmer said: @BoseHeadphones When did you order your MonoCustomize pads? According to tracking mine have been sitting in the Russian transic of exchange since 4/24... I hope they arrive mid-May when my MSP does! Mine shipped out 4/3 but I'm sadly still waiting--I had a small hope they'd beat the wheel here. The tracking site hasn't been updated since clearing Russian customs 4/5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preston Palmer Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 2 hours ago, BoseHeadphones said: Mine shipped out 4/3 but I'm sadly still waiting--I had a small hope they'd beat the wheel here. The tracking site hasn't been updated since clearing Russian customs 4/5. Well I just got an email from eWheels. Looks like I won't get my MSP until June 1st ish...So maybe they will come at the same time? Hah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HippoPig Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 8 hours ago, BoseHeadphones said: Mine shipped out 4/3 but I'm sadly still waiting--I had a small hope they'd beat the wheel here. The tracking site hasn't been updated since clearing Russian customs 4/5. Mine hasn’t updated since Leaving Russia on 31/03 either. They’re going on a wheel arriving in June so no biggie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagingGrandpa Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 23 hours ago, xorbe said: I don't like the fireball MCM5 that rockets off with the tiniest input. Where does the MSP fall? Pedal mode matters a lot here! Soft mode is less twitchy, be sure to try it on your MCM5. 22 hours ago, Ádám Szitás said: without power pads yet, it is mcm5->msp->nikola->msx MSP/Nikola similar "acceleration sensitivity" for me... I had a 16x owner try my MSX w/ power pads yesterday. His first comment- "feels more powerful!" But it's not. Ergonomics are critical. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xorbe Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 1 hour ago, RagingGrandpa said: MSP/Nikola similar "acceleration sensitivity" for me Thanks, then I'll plan to acquire MSP later, since I'm not a top speed freak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoseHeadphones Posted May 4, 2020 Author Share Posted May 4, 2020 5 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said: Pedal mode matters a lot here! Soft mode is less twitchy, be sure to try it on your MCM5. MSP/Nikola similar "acceleration sensitivity" for me... I had a 16x owner try my MSX w/ power pads yesterday. His first comment- "feels more powerful!" But it's not. Ergonomics are critical. Agree, I feel like the MSP is less sensitive than the Nikola. Especially w/o pads, but still takes more work with pads. The more I ride the MSP the more I've been moving the pads out in an attempt to get more leverage. Still haven't come close to overleaning. The power on tap is incredible. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BoseHeadphones Posted May 8, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted May 8, 2020 Now that I've put 250 miles on the wheel, I've got a few points on the list to update. Biggest discovery was that I unknowingly had it in soft mode for the first 100 miles--switching riding modes in DarknessBot doesn't currently work for the MSP. Using the Gotway app to set the MSP to hard mode has the pedals properly rock hard. Soft mode grew on me though, I'll play with it more in the future. MSP soft mode isn't nearly as soft as the Nikola's--MSP soft feels close to Nikola medium. Pros: Acceleration: I've got to really throw my weight into it, but the MSP can rocket off the line as well as my Mten3. The smoothness of the motor when accelerating is euphoric. Power: Still trying to find the limit. I'm taking off close to the speeds that overleaned my Mten3, but am still staying upright. Getting braver every day. Speed: I haven't hit the 80% alarm at full battery yet. Hit 38 mph the other day at 75% battery and still no beeps. I'm not particularly light (180 lbs geared) so I'm pleasantly surprised so far. My worries about MSS speed envy are fading, I rarely have an opportunity to go more than 35 mph. Cons: Ergonomics: I've got some light bruising on my calves from leaning on the MSP into turns. The slope of the Nikola is far more comfortable for this, wish Gotway tapered off the sides on the MSP shell similarly. Finally got an update today that my Monocustomize pads just left St. Petersburg, I'll have to deal with the pain a bit longer until they arrive. I tried putting some baby foam to pad it but it has too much grip, which gets in the way when I aggressively shift my weight forward and back. I'd love to hear any suggestions for a foam to use that's slick but still offers padding. I'm going to try re-purposing the stock Gotway pads, they're thin and barely grippy Neutral: Seat: I'm impressed by the people who can use seats. I'm 5'10" and it still seems a foot too short to actually use. My expectations of slapping it on and comfortably cruising into the sunset are properly dashed. I'm reminding myself I had the same thought about the impossibility of riding EUCs when I got my V8, so I'll be making a concerted effort to learn. I'm mostly surprised how little of my experience riding standing is translating to riding seated. Sticky pedals: almost totally unstuck. Left pedal no longer sticks at all, right pedal usually folds up on the first kick. Polycarbonate mud guard/stand: it's well made and very solid, but the stand piece sticks out slightly past the width of the wheel. It also extends behind the wheel quite a bit. As a consequence I've kicked it a few times while trolleying, and yesterday I clipped it on a door frame and the whole thing popped out of the wheel. The stand itself works well but I don't use it much, so that I'm thinking of swapping it out for a simpler 3d-printed TPU version. So far so good, this has been the comfortable cruiser I'd hoped it would be! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photorph Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 On 5/8/2020 at 5:24 PM, BoseHeadphones said: Speed: I haven't hit the 80% alarm at full battery yet. Hit 38 mph the other day at 75% battery and still no beeps. I'm not particularly light (180 lbs geared) so I'm pleasantly surprised so far. My worries about MSS speed envy are fading, I rarely have an opportunity to go more than 35 mph. This is not what I have heard about the Pro. The beeps should come in at 32 ish. You sure you didn’t miss them?? 36-38 is cutout zone on the pro. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoseHeadphones Posted May 15, 2020 Author Share Posted May 15, 2020 4 hours ago, photorph said: This is not what I have heard about the Pro. The beeps should come in at 32 ish. You sure you didn’t miss them?? 36-38 is cutout zone on the pro. Pretty sure, though I was initially worried that I was missing them due to wind noise. Didn’t hit the beeps on full battery until I hit 40 mph. Just did another long trip today and didn’t encounter beeps until 20% battery, when I was going 32 mph. Had a heavier buddy of mine (220lbs) try the MSP with a full charge and he wasn’t getting beeps until 36 mph. I know one of the NYC reviews mentioned getting beeps at 32 mph, but I’m not running into that limit that until the battery is mostly gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photorph Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 1 hour ago, BoseHeadphones said: Pretty sure, though I was initially worried that I was missing them due to wind noise. Didn’t hit the beeps on full battery until I hit 40 mph. Just did another long trip today and didn’t encounter beeps until 20% battery, when I was going 32 mph. Had a heavier buddy of mine (220lbs) try the MSP with a full charge and he wasn’t getting beeps until 36 mph. I know one of the NYC reviews mentioned getting beeps at 32 mph, but I’m not running into that limit that until the battery is mostly gone. Interesting, from feedback from a few sources beeps start 30-32 on newer 2500w motor vs high 30s on 2000w motor. I know you can take it up to 37 at your own risk but you should be at 80% motor capacity in low 30s. The mspro is the only wheel I haven’t tried personally yet though. I’d be a bit concerned about getting it as my street wheel since I’m so acclimated to the high speeds of the 100v MSX snd monster... I may push the pro too high and cause a cut out. Would like to know if anyone else besides you who didn’t get the 80% warning in low 30s on the pro.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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