fearedbliss Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Hello all,I currently been using a 9B1 E+ for a few months now and love it, but thinking about getting a KS 14" 800W as my next EU.I read here that there is a new Mark II version of the KS 800w that has many new features/upgrades. I was wondering if there are any US sellers selling this one? I know that @Jason McNeil (from WheelGo UK) says that he is selling the new one and he also includes the turbo charger. https://www.wheelgo.com/product/new-exclusive-king-song-14-ewheels-electric-unicycles/I can see that @KaleOsaurusRex is the US seller from what I read from other threads, but it doesn't seem this explictly stats Mark II or that it includes the turbo charger?https://www.electricunicyclereviews.com/s/advanced-electric-unicycles/king-song-14-800w-680wh.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Hello all,I currently been using a 9B1 E+ for a few months now and love it, but thinking about getting a KS 14" 800W as my next EU.I read here that there is a new Mark II version of the KS 800w that has many new features/upgrades. I was wondering if there are any US sellers selling this one? I know that @Jason McNeil (from WheelGo UK) says that he is selling the new one and he also includes the turbo charger. https://www.wheelgo.com/product/new-exclusive-king-song-14-ewheels-electric-unicycles/I can see that @KaleOsaurusRex is the US seller from what I read from other threads, but it doesn't seem this explictly stats Mark II or that it includes the turbo charger?https://www.electricunicyclereviews.com/s/advanced-electric-unicycles/king-song-14-800w-680wh.html About a month or so back, there was some discussion about this. King Song had some delays shipping the Mark II, and so Kale gave customers who had already ordered units the option of receiving the Mark 1 immediately or waiting for the Mark II. I assume that since these customers have received their Mark II units already, all future units will be Mark II.EDIT: Also, I see on the site that it advertises iOs app compatibility, which is a Mark II feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fearedbliss Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 Hey @Kevin, Thanks for that info. I've placed the order with @KaleOsaurusRex. Hopefully I receive a Mark II modelI. I put in the order comments to only ship the Uni if it is Mark 2. I would need to return if it isn't -_-. The only downside is that I don't think Kale offers the Turbo Chargers like @Jason McNeil does. Maybe I can buy the Turbo charge from Jason and use a UK->US adapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I wouldn't worry too much about getting a faster charger unless you find yourself running out of batteries in the middle of the day. Personally on my 340wh EUC I just let it charge overnight once every few days as I typically ride just a few miles per day, and the battery will take me around 15 miles on a charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fearedbliss Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 Yup I do the same thing with my 9B1. Since I charge it overnight (or I charge it after I travel somewhere) I don't really notice it. But it still would be nice to charge something quickly (especially since the KS takes 5.5 hours to charge on a 120v charger). It might not be that bad though considering it has a bigger battery. I wonder how efficient the power management of KS is... I hear people saying they get 20 miles on their KS but I almost get 20 miles on my 9B1 .. It probably has to do with the terrain they are riding on, their weight, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Yeah that was actually something that struck me about the 500W KS I tried. @Jeffrey Scott Will, when we went riding together - I seem to remember you saying you started with a full charge, but when we were done it was already low? Not sure if I misheard, but it seemed like a pretty short ride to run down the battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 The problem with power, is that it leads you desire more of it—higher peak outputs, higher torque, faster charging... Fast-charging is handy for those out-of-the-ordinary situations where you're planning on taking the Wheel out on an epic trek or something. You can have a 1-2hr lunch & get 40-80% replenished in that time.In the not to distant future 8A chargers are entirely possible. I seem to recall the German battery modifiers offer this an option with their 64 cells pack. With a high quality battery cell sub 45 min charging is technically very achievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fearedbliss Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 @Jason McNeil I seem to had heard from someone that fast charging doesn't actually damage or shorten the lifespan of the battery (I suppose if the battery is strong and big enough to hold that type of charge) but other people say it shortens the life span. I suppose a more pragmatic approach to fast charging is to fast charge when you are on the road if needed but use the regular charger when you are home and are sleeping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colestien Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 OK, start off by stating I haven't made up my mind yet between the Gotway 18 and the KS 18a, I think this question covers both cases. The question is: How should I get it. I've checked US dealers web pages, Hell all web pages that sell the KS-18a with the larger battery. If I go thru Sarah Liu at Shenzhen King Song Sports Equipment Co., Ltd I could save about $300. I'm looking at $900 delivered. There is a comfort to buying local. Being in the center of Kansas there isn't a " local" Local. I don't want to cut my own throat. If there is trouble, and local dealers don't have to send it back. I would rather not have to deal with me sending it back to China. So... enough rattling. Is it better to buy from factory and save money, or buy from a US dealer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fearedbliss Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 OK, start off by stating I haven't made up my mind yet between the Gotway 18 and the KS 18a, I think this question covers both cases. The question is: How should I get it. I've checked US dealers web pages, Hell all web pages that sell the KS-18a with the larger battery. If I go thru Sarah Liu at Shenzhen King Song Sports Equipment Co., Ltd I could save about $300. I'm looking at $900 delivered. There is a comfort to buying local. Being in the center of Kansas there isn't a " local" Local. I don't want to cut my own throat. If there is trouble, and local dealers don't have to send it back. I would rather not have to deal with me sending it back to China. So... enough rattling. Is it better to buy from factory and save money, or buy from a US dealer? I ordered mine from @KaleOsaurusRex, US dealer. Much better piece of mind dealing with someone within your own country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsme_michael Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 OK, start off by stating I haven't made up my mind yet between the Gotway 18 and the KS 18a, I think this question covers both cases. The question is: How should I get it. I've checked US dealers web pages, Hell all web pages that sell the KS-18a with the larger battery. If I go thru Sarah Liu at Shenzhen King Song Sports Equipment Co., Ltd I could save about $300. I'm looking at $900 delivered. There is a comfort to buying local. Being in the center of Kansas there isn't a " local" Local. I don't want to cut my own throat. If there is trouble, and local dealers don't have to send it back. I would rather not have to deal with me sending it back to China. So... enough rattling. Is it better to buy from factory and save money, or buy from a US dealer? I'm in Canada, so your mileage may vary. But I ordered a King Song directly from the factory because there's nobody in Canada that imports them, and it has been an absolute nightmare. I waited two months after purchase, and was then informed that they had sent it to Hong Kong, but had no idea how to get it to Canada. Tina actually asked ME how to ship it. To make a long story short, we terminated the purchase, and they agreed to refund my money, however a month later and almost 100 emails back and forth with the factory and I STILL haven't gotten my money back.I don't think they're bad people or trying to be shady, but they have no idea about shipping, customer service, sales, support, etc - there's also frequently a language barrier. If you're lucky, your purchase goes smoothly, and you get your EUC no problem. But if something DOES go wrong (as in my case), don't expect to order from the factory and get any tangible help or support whatsoever. You're already spending almost $1,000 on a EUC, and in retrospect it's my experience that having someone in your own country who can facilitate your purchase and whose job it is to be available for customer care is worth the extra money. After the King Song debacle I ordered a ninebot from a local dealer and had it on my doorstep in a few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 @Jason McNeil I seem to had heard from someone that fast charging doesn't actually damage or shorten the lifespan of the battery (I suppose if the battery is strong and big enough to hold that type of charge) but other people say it shortens the life span. I suppose a more pragmatic approach to fast charging is to fast charge when you are on the road if needed but use the regular charger when you are home and are sleeping.In most cases this is not true, when charged at 4A (with the King Song 680Wh), the amount of juice pumped into each cells is still 50% less than the standard charge rate on the Airwheels. The essential difference is that the power is being soaked up by 4x the quantity of batteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 OK, start off by stating I haven't made up my mind yet between the Gotway 18 and the KS 18a, I think this question covers both cases. The question is: How should I get it. I've checked US dealers web pages, Hell all web pages that sell the KS-18a with the larger battery. If I go thru Sarah Liu at Shenzhen King Song Sports Equipment Co., Ltd I could save about $300. I'm looking at $900 delivered. There is a comfort to buying local. Being in the center of Kansas there isn't a " local" Local. I don't want to cut my own throat. If there is trouble, and local dealers don't have to send it back. I would rather not have to deal with me sending it back to China. So... enough rattling. Is it better to buy from factory and save money, or buy from a US dealer? If you're lucky and get no problems within the warrenty period then you will save money by imporing. As I understand it though Chinese companies are taxed on returned goods so unsurprisingly they are not keen on returns. Plus you will find it very difficult to post as a private individual with the new battery transport regulations.If you are happy to get the screw driver out then most of the reputable Chinese suppliers are happy to supply parts and advice uner waranty, but be aware that the down time can be considerable with shipping delays. This is less important if you have multiple wheels but if it's your one and only wheel then the long delays will seem almost intolerable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fearedbliss Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 Hey @Jason McNeil, I'm not entirely sure what you mean. Can you rephrase?The fast charger charges it faster but it is providing 50% less electricity to each cell? Also when you say "In most cases this is not true", do you mean that in most cases fast charging actually _doesnt_ harm the battery's lifespan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Hey @Jason McNeil, I'm not entirely sure what you mean. Can you rephrase?The fast charger charges it faster but it is providing 50% less electricity to each cell? Also when you say "In most cases this is not true", do you mean that in most cases fast charging actually _doesnt_ harm the battery's lifespan?Simple: Typical AW 16 cells & 2A charging = 2A/cell; KS680Wh 64 cells & 2A charging = .5A cells. Same reason that Electric Cars can charge at 500x more power than eWheels using similar cells, power of parallelization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fearedbliss Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 @Jason McNeil Ah ok. Thanks for the explanation :). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pchiu Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 On 22 octobre 2015 at 10:37 PM, Jason McNeil said: Simple: Typical AW 16 cells & 2A charging = 2A/cell; KS680Wh 64 cells & 2A charging = .5A cells. Same reason that Electric Cars can charge at 500x more power than eWheels using similar cells, power of parallelization. Hi John, Not a electricity guru but, should that be .25A per cell since there are 2 battery pack of 16S4P, being 8 cells in parallel ? And if so, considering each cell should be ok to charge at 2A, shouldn't it be ok to super-fast-charge them with 2A*4(parallel)*2(battery pack) = 16A ? (I know it's a lot to take for a single wall power plug but let's stay theoretically). Ot I'm a completely wrong? Best, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 18 hours ago, pchiu said: Hi John, Not a electricity guru but, should that be .25A per cell since there are 2 battery pack of 16S4P, being 8 cells in parallel ? And if so, considering each cell should be ok to charge at 2A, shouldn't it be ok to super-fast-charge them with 2A*4(parallel)*2(battery pack) = 16A ? (I know it's a lot to take for a single wall power plug but let's stay theoretically). Ot I'm a completely wrong? Best, Your numbers are a bit off... 16S4P means 16 cells in series and 4 in parallel. So 4 separate series of 16 cells each. These could be further wired in many different configurations (like the pretty exotic 4 packs in series with 4S4P each of F528 and F779 Firewheel), but in general, that's what you're looking at with 64 cell batteries. But, in general and assuming using same cells everywhere, each 16 cell-series has the same capacity of a single cell (say, 2000mAh = 2Ah). So in total the capacity is 2Ah * 4 (4 separate series in parallel), giving a total of 8Ah. Most quality cells can easily withstand 1C (meaning charging to full in one hour) charge speed, so 8A charging should be ok for such packs, as long as the charger, connectors and wiring can take it. Charging at 16A for 4 parallel series of 2000mAh cells would be 2C (charge to full in half an hour), which could be ok or not, depending on the cells. Trying to charge the cells too fast will diminish their total capacity faster and in the worst case, cause the cells to catch fire / explode (apparently only happens mostly with cheap low-quality cells). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pchiu Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 34 minutes ago, esaj said: Your numbers are a bit off... 16S4P means 16 cells in series and 4 in parallel. So 4 separate series of 16 cells each. These could be further wired in many different configurations (like the pretty exotic 4 packs in series with 4S4P each of F528 and F779 Firewheel), but in general, that's what you're looking at with 64 cell batteries. But, in general and assuming using same cells everywhere, each 16 cell-series has the same capacity of a single cell (say, 2000mAh = 2Ah). So in total the capacity is 2Ah * 4 (4 separate series in parallel), giving a total of 8Ah. Most quality cells can easily withstand 1C (meaning charging to full in one hour) charge speed, so 8A charging should be ok for such packs, as long as the charger, connectors and wiring can take it. Charging at 16A for 4 parallel series of 2000mAh cells would be 2C (charge to full in half an hour), which could be ok or not, depending on the cells. Trying to charge the cells too fast will diminish their total capacity faster and in the worst case, cause the cells to catch fire / explode (apparently only happens mostly with cheap low-quality cells). Thanks for your reply! Just acquired a KingSong 14C 840Wh. My understanding is that it is composed of 2 battery (one per side of the EU) of 420Wh each. Each battery is then organized in 16S4P, making the capacity of each pack to 420/4 = 105Wh. The internal voltage being 67V, each pack capacity in Ah is 105/67 = 1,57 Ah. So in theory, each battery could be easily charged with a 1,57*4 = 6,28 A (1C). So whether using a 2A/4A/5A charger would be "safe" is all cases right? For this KS 14C, 2 questions remains : What current can withstand the BMS without melting it..? Is there a BMS for each battery or a single one controlling both batteries? (depending on this, the input A could be potentially safely doubled right?) Or am I completely wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 1 hour ago, pchiu said: Thanks for your reply! Just acquired a KingSong 14C 840Wh. My understanding is that it is composed of 2 battery (one per side of the EU) of 420Wh each. Each battery is then organized in 16S4P, making the capacity of each pack to 420/4 = 105Wh. Actually it's 4 series of 16 cells each, probably divided into packs with 16 cells each. Technically, you do have 16S4P, but it's for BOTH "sides", not per side. Usually we say that a single series of 16 cells is one "battery (pack)", but depending on the configurations, you can debate what constitutes a "single battery". I don't know the exact configuration (separate 2 * 16S1Ps per side or 2 * 8S2P per side or whatever) used here, but in total there are (or at least should be) 64 cells, with always 16 cells in series to get around 60V nominal voltage, and 210Wh each series for the total capacity of 840Wh. Likely there are 2 batteries per side (4 in total), each with 16 cells in series with capacity total of 210Wh per pack, because it's 840Wh / 4, total capacity (840Wh) divided by total number of packs (4). Quote The internal voltage being 67V, each pack capacity in Ah is 105/67 = 1,57 Ah. So in theory, each battery could be easily charged with a 1,57*4 = 6,28 A (1C). So whether using a 2A/4A/5A charger would be "safe" is all cases right? The internal voltage is around 67V only when the packs are fully charged. Usually the capacity calculations use nominal voltage, which for most lithium chemistries is between 3.6V and 3.7V (but in reality can get close to 3.8V for some chemistries, and much lower for certain "more special chemistries", like LiFePo4, lithium-iron-phosphate, or Li-ti, lithium-titanate, which are considerably lower). But in general, the nominal voltage is between 57.6V and 59.2V, typically rounded to 60V. Anyway, you don't have 1.57Ah (1570mAh) cells, you have 3500mAh cells (the top of the line, if they're quality cells like LG or Samsung), because 60V * 3.5Ah / pack * 4 packs = 840Wh. Quote For this KS 14C, 2 questions remains : What current can withstand the BMS without melting it..? Melting the BMS would require quite a lot of current, but there is an overdischarge (short circuit / overcurrent) -protection in the BMS. Can't say what it is, it can vary from BMS to BMS, but it's probably several tens of amperes. Ie. your BMS(s) should and will likely cut the power long before melting. Quote Is there a BMS for each battery or a single one controlling both batteries? (depending on this, the input A could be potentially safely doubled right?) Again, I cannot tell, there's a possibility that there's a separate BMS in each pack, or 2 packs use a single BMS or all packs are behind a single BMS (unlikely, but Firewheel does this with the 4 pack-models, and the wiring's a mess). Personally, I think having separate BMS per pack is the "way to go", for redundancy, but I can't tell for sure, so you won't know for sure without at least opening the wheel up enough to feel if the packs have separate BMSs or not. Not sure if there's actually need for that though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checho Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 it is a difficult choice between the gotway 18 high torque and the new KingSong 18 1100watt. I feel that the high torque version is best for heavy drivers. For both of these unicycles it is very difficult to find vendors, the high torque version is not very popular among vendors, and most vendors are still selling the KingSong 800Watt, when they should be selling the 1100Watt for the 18" wheel. I have recently ordered a KingSong 18 1100 watt, will do a review once I get it, but it will not be a speed review, it will be a review on handling steep hills reliably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbot Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Man...I came on this thread expecting to see a turbo-charged kingsong 14. What a let down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 33 minutes ago, alexbot said: Man...I came on this thread expecting to see a turbo-charged kingsong 14. What a let down dont be so disappointed. You've come to the right pkace. kingsong is already turbo charged as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h00ktern Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 I believe vee73 is working on a two-stroke 250cc twin mod, lol. Ok. Maybe not "lol." If you ask nicely, he might try Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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