Donafello Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 I'm curious if anyone knows at what speed the 3rd and final warning starts on a msuper. I have the first two warnings turned off and just want to get a idea at what speed i'm at when I hear it come on. Also whats the top speed before it will give out? I know it will change based on rider but I'm just curious to get an idea. Thanks guys. I don't have a phone to test it unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbouju Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 It depends... Sooner when battery is lower, sooner if you accelerate, sooner as you weight more, sooner if you are climbing, etc.? Definitely not a good method to know your speed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donafello Posted September 28, 2015 Author Share Posted September 28, 2015 I know it varies with battery strength but I was just curious if I could go a little faster then the third warning. I'm assuming there is a pretty big gap between warning and cutoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 What i want to know in addition to Donafello's question is whether there could be a situation, under any circumstances, that msuper would cut off prior to the 3rd warning, or immediately after it such as not to allow the rider sufficient time to slow down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilmann Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Hi @Donafello, with a full battery on my Msuper MS/680Wh, the 3rd beeping starts at 30 to 31 km/h as indicated by the Gotway app, respectively @esaj's repacement (http://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/1198-custom-gotwayking-song-app/). As Gotway is known to show the real speed with about 3 km/h inflation, that's pretty exact 28 km/h in reality. That's for an average driver (I'm 75 kg), flat level ground and no wind, and it seems to be the absolute highest speed for the 3rd beeping to start. When I lift the wheel to spin freely, that 3rd beeping starts at the same indicated 30 -31 km/h (fact). I assume, a 20 kg kid going downhill with a tail wind will still hear the beeping at this speed (speculation).When spinning freely, my MS model cuts off between 44 and 45 km/h (GW app indicated): motor power stops and the long "error" beep is sounded (fact). Based on this I assume, our 20kg kid on the downhill run could actually drive up to 44 km/h indicated, before the wheel fails. In essence, I believe that driving the MS model up to 40 km/h should be possible with a tiny remaining safety margin as long as required power is not an issue and the battery is full (very speculation!!). Anything requiring more power than moving your average John Doe horizontally on full battery reduces the speed when the 3rd beeping starts (fact) and is very likely to also reduce the upper limit speed, at which the wheels fails to keep you balanced (speculation). Looking at the power curves of own experiments, I know that wind is a significant factor. With a strong tailwind I had the impression, that I was practically blown down the runway with very little effort from the wheel's motor and the recording of the power consumption confirmed I was using way below 500 Watt while driving up to 36 km/h indicated. I assume, I could have gone up to just above 40 km/h in this situation without cut off (speculation, I wimped out). Fighting a headwind, we found much higher power consumption and 3rd beeping started earlier (around 24 km/h). Others report surprisingly high power consumption spikes from measured experiments going uphill or hitting bumps in the street. So far, we are missing reliable figures to define a safe envelope of operation and we may not even know all the factors which go into the equation (e.g. what about temperatures of the environment, motor and battery?). To overcome this uncertainty, we would need volunteers systematically exceeding the limits (hi @vee73) under controlled conditions and with full telemetry data recording (hi @esaj, @hobby16, @Jason McNeil and others) and an understanding of the inner workings of the control circuits and software (hi @jayjay23, @oschemes, @PedalFaster) including BMS behaviour. Regarding the (reverse-)engineering aspects I'm optimistic - I'm amazed about the talent at work in this community alone and their spirit to share. When it comes to systematic testing, I'm afraid it's a bit much to ask from vee to face-plant under every conceivable set of conditions . Instead of teaching crash test dummies to learn EUC riding, I could envision costly setups with an EUC rider in safety harness secured by a truck with sort of a gallows construction driving in parallel on a spacious runway. But I can hardly see that happening without corporate sponsors. In the meantime, we can only learn more about the limits from involuntarily stepping over the line .So @Donafello, when you decide to press on with a Msuper beeping in protest, you're part of this experiment setup. While I'm very curious to learn about the real limits, I dread the thought of anybody going ballistic at +/- 40 km/h. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilmann Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 .... uuuuuh, and please keep in mind, that the assumptions above don't consider any situation in need of sudden emergency breaking! When being pushed down the runway by that strong tailwind, I could plan my breaking a mile ahead. I have no idea about the minimal distance to stop in such a situation and as others found out, a full battery may quickly become your enemy when combined with regenerative breaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I am a bit disappointed by what i am reading. If these statements are correct, the third beeping comes at 30kph or less and riding faster than third beeping speed is pretty much unchartered waters. While everyone wants to ride faster and without the company of the annoying beeps, it is reasonable for one to establish a safety limit beyond which one would know not to go. This is what i would do and in my mind it is a reasonable to turn off all beep levels except the one beyond which i will know not to go, so i can decellerate immediately. I understand it is pretty safe to say that beep levels 1 and 2 can be safely turned off. If the 3rd level comes in at 30 kph and one will not venture to go faster, i am a bit upset that 30 kph is the top safe speed for a wheel like m super. I understand that a number of other wheels can go as fast ( ips lotz, zero, new kingsong, 14 " gotway) . On the other hand, It also appears that one could go above the third beep, comparatively safely but how can one know one's exact speed above the 3rd beep and how much faster one can still go if there are no more beep levels to go by.this is why i like kingsong - it will tilt back before the wheel cant cope with the load any more and it appears that the new kingsong will have speeds up to 30kph - same as the IDENTIFIABLE safe speed limit for msuper.i do secretly hope, that i am missing something, as i like to think of msuper as a superior wheel in terms of max. speed.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirGeraint Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Well, the only good news is that was the MS, not the HS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Well, the only good news is that was the MS, not the HS.yay! Thats awesome news. I assumed that Tilmann described the HS as this is what Donafello has. He did say MS and i didnt notice. I feel much better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUC Extreme Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Must be really Speed version. Not Midle. Since all refers to the Speed version. No one should be in the production of that anymore faster version. This is how I think.Separately, has been available in the printed circuit board 43kmh. But it is not at all torque standard batteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 It is the weakness in the design of the present Gotways. We all know that there is a lot more speed available after the final warning which is both load and battery condition dependant on both the Msuper and mcmv2s but using it is like playing Russian roulette as there is no way to tell when the failure will occur.I understand that the mcm4 and the shortly to be released new version of Msuper have addressed this serious problem by adding customisable tilt back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirGeraint Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I understand that the mcm4 and the shortly to be released new version of Msuper have addressed this serious problem by adding customisable tilt back.Do Gotways have firmware that can be updated via the App? Could the Tilt-Back feature be added to any previous models of MSuper with a firmware update? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donafello Posted September 29, 2015 Author Share Posted September 29, 2015 thanks for that tilman. I must admit that when i'm fully charged and riding to the third beep i'm already flying so fast I don't want to go any quicker anyway:) Its really a amazing machine. But i do notice as the battery discharges slightly then I do get the warning a little sooner then normal. Which is also awesome. So it seems to be that whenever this 3rd beep comes in there should be about 10-13 km more before cutoff and that's basically what I wanted to know. Like I said at the 3rd beep I'm already pushing speeds I don't really feel that anyone needs to ride but I think its safe to say that if I ride while its beeping and maybe increase speed slightly I should be safe. also its very easy to kind of go from beeping to not beeping which I like becuase it gives me a sence of where I'm at and how much faster I could go. But to anyone that has rode a msuper HS version to the third beep I think they can also say that theres not much need to go any faster. I was riding in manhattan last night for the first time going to pick up my Iphone 6s plus and ran into someone with a ninebot and ips I think. We all were stopped at a light and proceed to all basically take off and race and within about 5 seconds I already had them pretty beat and after about 10 seconds was so far in front of them. And I still did not reach that 3rd beep. I love my msuper:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zentype Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 It is the weakness in the design of the present Gotways. We all know that there is a lot more speed available after the final warning which is both load and battery condition dependant on both the Msuper and mcmv2s but using it is like playing Russian roulette as there is no way to tell when the failure will occur.I understand that the mcm4 and the shortly to be released new version of Msuper have addressed this serious problem by adding customisable tilt back.As I'm now seriously considering an msuper, customisable tilt back is something I would call a must have before purchasing one!Any ideas on when the new msuper will be released? I'm guessing it will likely be identical physically to the current but with a mainboard update? Or is it a completely new msuper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 No idea to be honest but probably before the end of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlymex Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 I tried this several times on my MSuper MS on flat road no wind.26.5km/h if battery is full and 23.5km/h if 30% of charge (one light).This is true speed indecated by my phone's GPS, I am 72kg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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