meepmeepmayer

It's not just that a EUC may be more practical/carryable. He's very right with that comment. If you take a 2000+$/€ wheel, you get into the price territory of gas scooters and everything. And if you look how much you get there, in terms of parts, mass and size, production quality, costs to produce... a gas engine alone is more complex and complicated to produce than an entire EUC! And you get two wheels, a body, brakes, seat, lights, everything. Yes I know, economies of scale of a big established 100yo auto manufacturer vs. tiny China EUC manufacturer. But people don't care about that. It's hard to not feel ripped off by 2000+ EUC if you can get so much more "stuff" for the same kind of money. It's mentally very different from a 1000-1500 EUC (or scooter), because you can get nothing better for these prices. 2000+ is not only more money, but has this extra obstacle in the way. 2000+ is too much for a EUC in my opinion.

@Marty Backe You're not retiring from EUCs, are you? Your "frustration" (for lack of a better term) with social media and wheeling taking so much of you time, not even a little excitement for the Nikola, and now these pictures of different wheels in different but familiar places give me the vibe of a final round. Tell us you're ok

That looks like paradise, must feel like a kid in a candy store. EUC candy

Cyclotron is the best EUC name ever As always, Hunka comes up with the best stuff. But it should be GGC (Gotway Ground Collider) instead of the LHC real name It's still a 1600Wh Gotway "16" incher, finally with TO-247/MSX/MCM5/Monster100V board! How can you be so cool towards the rightful ACM successor just because of the looks and durability and size and build quality, despite the price? Aren't the ring lights just like the ones on the Tesla that you like? What's next, the 18XL you're getting to test will convince you to go KingSong?

They put about as much effort into the name as they did into their clearances of the shell seams around the lift button yes I know it's a "prototype" But it's not like KS16S, KS18L, V10, Z10 is better. As long as performance and price are good... and maybe the shell is durable enough to not look like crap after 3 tumbles... I don't think any name would be a problem. Nikola is cute. Next wheel: "Heidi", please (why not?).

Everything about this wheel except the price is pretty neat. Maybe not for everyone, but something new. Not every wheel must be generic, boring, serious. Maybe rename to Gotway Neon. I think the production cost is an excuse as well. The reason the newly designed GW wheels (Tesla, MCM5, mten3, ...) are built like they are (and modelled after how IM and KS did much earlier) - relatively flat side panels, relatively flat inner side shells, central ring from multiple parts over the tire, multiple smaller parts in general - precisely because such plastic parts and their molds are much cheaper to produce than the deep half shells of the ACM or msuper (literally half the wheel) and their molds. You can't tell me that producing quite simple plastic parts in China can be such a constraint. And anyways, design and production investment is supposed to amortize over the lifespan of sales, worked for the cheaper ACM and msuper V3 too. It was literally stated in the video GW wants to make this wheel a bit more expensive than the MSX because it is "better". That's their thinking. I understand they are proud of their new design achievements and their growing in competency, and maybe they're low on money, but that was their excuse with the Tesla as well. They forget the part where you get a better product for the same price as time passes, prices can't just rise like all these wheels were released at the same point in time.

I think it's a NYC-specific culture. Cyclists seem to love their looks-like-suicide-runs there, too, but there appears to be some kind of system that works. What I find more interesting, in any US video, people overtake very slow or standing cars on the right. Would always be on the left in Germany, and nobody would weave between cars standing narrowly together, etc. Also a culture thing.

I think firmware mods are the dumbest thing one can do, but I'm still happy you won't ban them from here. That doesn't help anyone.

If it has the 2000W motor like the MSX, it's going to be 17/19th that fast. Not faster than the MSX. Same with ACM vs msuper V3 (same motor).

He said (in the video) 100 or so more than an MSX. Which currently is 2100 on ewheels.

You have good analogy there. I think not every wheel must look super-serious and the Nikola is neat (if very impractical). But this may very well be GW's iMac phase and over soon. As long as GW wheels perform, people won't care too much how they look. That's how it was til now

Then I'm happy But in the end, it's sad what you report. 1600Wh for $1500 would be just friendlier. Not that I think it should be done... but might be easier than one thinks. The very fact that they force EU-internal price-differences... instant ace in the hole here. And probably some kind of electrical/safety certification shortcoming should be easy to find. Boom, "dangerous", banned. I do dream that, too. Someone give me the money and I will do it. Proper motors, proper electronics, actual ergonomics, pedal suspension, lights, design and construction quality... so many ultra-low hanging fruits. Problem is... who would want to invest in EUCs? That would be a rather long-term thing, I think, no quick get-rich growth. Maybe a scooter+EUC company? Why didn't I mine some stupid Bitcoins 10 years ago? If it is indeed priced at $2500 and it sells well, then the Marty has spoken (and won't buy one) Good point with the non-China manufacturers. Right now we got Uniwheel (lol) who apparently never have ridden a EUC or seen another manufacturer's wheel, or they would never have built that low-speed, low-power thing instead of the kind of wheel that sells.

Adding a battery later is absurdly more costly than the extra price if you buy it right away. And what was the reason people added the capacity only later? Did you ask them? My humble guess is: price "I'm not sure I needed it and it was expensive as it is". Only later they realized they needed the range/capacity they found overpriced earlier. The 650Wh and 800Wh options are also 3P (a wheel powerful like this should have more) and will be imbalanced because all the battery weight is on one side, one battery instead of two (and you might even see the missing battery because the shell is translucent). And in the end, if you upgrade later, the price will be even higher than the overpriced normal big capacities. Nothing gained for nobody. That is not an attractive option. "You can have a shitty variant for the normal price so it's ok" won't make many people happy. It didn't use to be like that. That came with the Tesla which cost as much as the 1600Wh ACM before. I will always remember that disappointment lol. All you need to understand this is to open a Gotway wheel. So much wasted space (KS is even worse). Take an ACM, Tesla, or msuper. Make the shell a little more boxy, and you easily have enough space for four standard 3P Gotway battery packs instead of two (or two semi-aborted 2P ones like in the Tesla). So a 3200Wh Tesla or ACM-sized wheel is quite easily possible, not even speaking of the msuper which is still considered very compact for all its wasted space Look at the Z10 - 18 inch ultra wide tire and 1000Wh, and it's as big as an ACM. Look at the Nikola size in comparison, even bigger than a 19 inch wide tire MSX. People ask for more battery because 90% of the work is just Gotway literally putting more battery in. It's very natural to ask. Here's the inside of my ACM, by far Gotway's most compact wheel (never mind the fried electronics). Where the board is is empty space on the other side. So you can see where people are coming from - get the board out of the way (on top like Tesla) and you're 90% there putting 3200Wh in

Yea, maybe not exactly GW and KS having crazy conspiratiorial meetings (do they still hate each other?), but they see a price hike and silently hike theirs too instead of competing. Tesla and 16S e.g. That's a really good measure for an acceptable wheel price! If one can do that, it means a potential new rider can, too. Reasonably easy to get into EUCs then. And with the shitty current state of wheels (all models of all manufacturers are still a joke from Western quality standards) and speed of development, a new wheel every 2 years is needed anyways. Speaking of quality, how long is the translucent shell of the Nikola going to look good, with dust getting in and being visible from the outside, and scratches? Going to look like crap after 6 months. Not speaking of the cabling of the lift button. I bet there's not a single bit of waterproofing or just a dust seal on this wheel. 2500+ $/€ for this kind of quality (aka the lack of)??? Yes, it's still a "prototype", meaning GW let's the Russians test if it doesn't explode on sight and doing their alpha testing (beta testing is for end users - beta testing means testing the finished product)... lol... does anyone believe there will be significant improvements to the production model? 1500-2000 for that, fine. More is a joke.

Jason, tell them that's too expensive! Gotway did a severe price hike along with the Tesla. The 1036Wh Tesla started at what the 1600Wh ACM cost! msuper prices rose in accordance. Now they seem to do a price hike, again. Gotway need to understand just because their wheel is better now, they can't just say it should cost more. That's not how the market works. The same technology is supposed to get cheaper in time, not keep its price (and make updated models more expensive). They forgot about that part. All the development costs and shiny translucent shells aren't going to change that. So either there is a substantial market for people who don't care what a wheel costs and just buy it (the rumored multi-wheelers who have more wheels than Marty but never post here or show themselves in other ways), and Gotway go for those and keep everyone else stranded. Or they ruin their reputation with normal people. 16 (or 17) inches is a beginner allrounder size (serious people just go for the msuper because 18>16 and that means it must be better and bigger and faster for enthusiasts), and no beginner is going to buy a $3000 wheel. 1000€/$ is a huge barrier for new riders, 1500 is pushing it, and that's where top-end 16 inchers were til now. More is just crazy. And "You can have old models, over a year old, for that price" isn't going to cut it. When people see they can buy a "shitty" (as in not nearly competitive with the current high end) V8 for 800-1000 and the wheels they want cost 2500+, they won't buy any EUC and just get a scooter or something (or nothing). GW aren't alone with that, scooters for example are crazy overpriced ($4000 for some Dualtron, hello??? It's just a shitty, cheaply constructed China scooter!! You can buy an acceptable used car for that!) but I don't think those PEV and specifically EUC price hikes are going to help anyone, customers or them. They can't rely on their existing customer base who might buy their shiny special 3rd or 5th wheel. Are there that many rich potential new buyers now that it makes sense to abandon the "normals"? I bought my ACM for 1600€ in Jan. 2017. About as much as I was willing (and reasonably able) to pay for any wheel (that's why I got the 1300Wh, not 1600). If it had cost 2000+ then and the alternative would have been a 1200+€ V8 (not sure how much it exactly cost then) that doesn't really do what I wanted, I probably would not have bought any EUC. "You're either crazy rich, or you can only hope for a second-rate model" isn't exactly an attractive proposition, especially for an emerging market where second rate means serious shortcomings in comparison to pricier models (instead of useless and expensive prestige extras like with cars). The existence of the Tesla or the up-hiked MSX prices do not excuse that price for this Nikola So please maybe massage GW a bit and tell them the price is a joke. I don't know how much of the price hike is greedy GW and how much is out of their control, but for the Western end user that's not going to matter either way. 1500 or bust.

That will be covers for the screws and screw holes needed to hold the shell together. Yes, look at the pictures in the first post. E.g. this one.

This is a hilariously accurate description how the wheel looks Wouldn't call it ugly, though. It's China-cool. I completely agree that it is too big. The ACM or Z10 show that a wheel does not have to be big. From the pictures, it appears the batteries are only in a central column (like the KS) and there's so much wasted space on the sides and on top. I guess they just copied how KS wheels are built. And it doesn't look too robust. The side lights are nice, though. A continuously moving light ring is about the best sideways visibility a EUC can have. The shell looks about the same as the ACM in terms of mud protection, I don't think you will get yourself dirty without an extra mudguard. It will be a powerful wheel, essentially like the Tesla but with bigger batteries, best board available, and a more robust tire.

Who can resist flashy pink lights? I can't. Flamboyantly cool in its translucent plasticness Great to see they apparently put in a semi-serious (very bright = actually usable in traffic) front light, finally. Hoping the back light is as bright as well.

@RockyTop This is definitely the "standard 16 inch" rim (no matter what size it actually is) like on the ACM or Tesla, just with a bigger, bloated tire. You can literally see that. So exactly like they did on the MSX, just a size smaller. I guess that makes the tire width 2.5 inches (a bloated 2.125).

HEEEEEEEEYA!!!!!!!!!!! Gotway "16" incher with 1600Wh battery!!!!! ACM redeemed!!!!! Paging @Marty Backe, paging @Marty Backe 🥳 Though it is a bit flashy... how about a more robust offroader, Gotway? But the ring lights are cool and seem to indicate (in combination with the nicely flush handle) some kind of actual design planning by Gotway! Also, an LCD screen! I wonder why it is so big? Bigger than MSX? Wish they would put more than 1600Wh in such a big shell, it's certainly possible. And why is the price so high? More than the MSX? Haha, they were definitely "inspired" by Inmotions and the 18L. But that's a good thing. And they actually did the handle better than IM (flush, can't be damaged in a fall) and the circular sides better than KS (uninterrupted lights and shape all around). Pretty sure that's a given now, fatter tire on the old rim is where they seem to go now. I wonder if they will bring out a 15 inch MCM6... that would be a great mountain machine!

"Letzte Meile" impliziert aber bei den Leuten, dass man sich letztlich doch in Kombination mit anderen Verkehrsmitteln fortbewegt. Und genau das ist falsch bzw. einschränkend, wenn man sich darauf bezieht (z.B. durch zu geringe Geschwindigkeitslimits). Drum mag ich den Ausdruck nicht. Gerade das Denken "am Ende braucht man ja doch ein Auto" muss weg (und unsere Politikern verhindern genau das im Sinne der Autoindustrie). PLEV, PEV, Klein(st)fahrzeug usw. ist da neutral und besser. Schöner hätt ichs auch nicht formulieren können Kann sein, kann nicht sein. Falls es so ist, würde ich sagen liegt das daran, dass man ein EUC eben so schnell und unkompliziert benutzen kann um mal eben zum Supermarkt zu fahren (und dann dort einfach in den Einkaufswagen legen) oder sowas. Bevor man Auto oder Fahrrad aus der Garage geholt und entsperrt hat, ist man schon am Ziel. D.h. die Unkompliziertheit begünstigt besonders kurze Wege. Das heisst sonst erstmal nix. Insbesondere da sich das ganze ja erst entwickelt. Solange sich die Leute jedesmal wundern, wie weit man mit einem EUC kommt, ist klar, dass sie glauben, dass nur kurze Wege mit sowas machbar sind. Da muss sich erst mehr Verständnis entwickeln. Und gerade wenn man da mal dem "letzte Meile" widerspricht, wird das helfen. Wunderschön gesagt

Ouch, your injuries sound bad! Did you wear wrist guards? If yes, which ones? Most likely you just need a new board. If you felt something strange before the crash, that means the board is no longer good. Open the wheel and look at the board to see if there is something visibly wrong, probably you'll find something (but you need a new board anyways to be safe). It will be hard to repair a wheel with a broken hand! So concentrate on healing before repairing the wheel. I hope you will heal fast and uncomplicated

Wow, Respekt! Das ist ne Leistung.

Schön gesagt! Mich fragen sie immer gleich, wie schnell und wie weit das geht. Wenn ich dann 35km/h und 65km sage, oder wo ich her komme (gerne mal 20km weg) gibts meistens eine Sekunde Verarbeitungspause Aber hab bis jetzt, bis auf eine einzige handtaschenschwingende Oma, immer nur positive Reaktionen bekommen. Jo, vordergründig ein Kompliment (im Sinne von süss und harmlos) und hintergründig wird damit abgebügelt und verhindert. Siehe auch EU-PLEV Richtlinien-Vorschlag. 25km/h Limit, und alles was schneller ist, ist dann "Competition" und wird vielleicht irgendwann mal in der Zukunft geregelt (wers glaubt, wird selig). Als ob der einzige Nutzen für schnellere Gefährte irgendwelche Randgruppen-Rennen auf einer abgesperrten BMX-Strecke oder so wären. Schön für dich dass das echt so klappt! Aber das geht natürlich gar nicht! "Hey, wozu brauche ich dann ein Auto?" ist genau der Eindruck, den gefälligst keiner habe soll. Siehe 45km/h Limit für ebikes, denn bei 50 könnte jemand ja denken "Hey, in der Stadt ist ein Auto auch nicht schneller!".

Weil wir hier in Deutschland sind. Das Motto ist: Erstmal verbieten, und danach können wir ja weitersehen. Ansonsten stimme ich dir da voll zu Ich nehme trotzdem lieber ein "Geschäftsmodell" als garnix. Natürlich wär es schöner, wenn sich die Vernunft von alleine durchsetzt. Aber wie gesagt, wir sind ja hier in D.