meepmeepmayer Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 1 minute ago, KingSong69 said: Holly Cow! It melted the silicon from the magnet....this white thing with the magnet in it...it belongs on the white sidepad! Oh right.. this is not the speaker. Didn't even notice! It's stuck to the wheel inside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Fascinating pictures. Like everyone is saying, this clearly demonstrates that the cables get HOT. I hope @Linnea Lin Gotway sees these pictures and understand another design change that they need to make. It's funny, sad, (insert your adjective here) that all of these problems (under sized wires, bad connectors, etc) are so simple to design around, yet Gotway is still designing their wheels as if they were 5 mph Solowheels. Yet there is hope that these are such simple design/construction fixes that better, more robust wheels are in our future. Good luck @meepmeepmayer with your fixes. Fortunately looks like no electronics were harmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 1 minute ago, meepmeepmayer said: Yea I can understand waiting to buy an ACM now (don't the msupers V3 have the same motor?)... on the other hand, first time this happened, right? Nope! there have been shorts because of the melted connectors/cable before.... @Marty Backe Perhaps you dont want to do this long uphills on the Los Angeles park anymore? Horrible pictures, or? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 8 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: Holly Cow! It melted the silicon from the magnet....this white thing with the magnet in it...it belongs on the white sidepad! Thinking about it... how did it even melt the silicon? It's a few cm away from the melted cables, and the black motor wire right as it comes out of the hub goes between the two, and it has no visible heat damage. Induction via the magnet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: Nope! there have been shorts because of the melted connectors/cable before.... @Marty Backe Perhaps you dont want to do this long uphills on the Los Angeles park anymore? Horrible pictures, or? I still will. Usually my steep hill climbs only last for a couple of minutes max. @meepmeepmayer said he was riding a steep incline for ~10 minutes when this happened. Next time I open my case I may install some spacers to keep the cabling separate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingouin Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 5 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: Fascinating pictures. Like everyone is saying, this clearly demonstrates that the cables get HOT. I hope @Linnea Lin Gotway sees these pictures and understand another design change that they need to make. It's funny, sad, (insert your adjective here) that all of these problems (under sized wires, bad connectors, etc) are so simple to design around, yet Gotway is still designing their wheels as if they were 5 mph Solowheels. Yet there is hope that these are such simple design/construction fixes that better, more robust wheels are in our future. Good luck @meepmeepmayer with your fixes. Fortunately looks like no electronics were harmed. That's incredible !! I've done the same kind of riding, and none of the cables seemed to have heated up, is it the 20kg difference between meep and I that makes that much of a difference ? I agree with you, I was surprised by the poor thickness of theses cables, but I said to myself that they should have thought this through, but now I'm gonna freak out on this EUC.. Do you think this is possible only in climb situations, or also by going fast on flat ? Hopfully this design issue gets solved quickly ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Sometimes as spark plug wires get old you can get an electrical arc from the wire to the engine block. Small holes through the silicone insulation actually start appearing where the spark travels through. Considering the current flowing through those small gauge motor wires in the wheel, I wonder whether the electricity jumped through the insulation causing an arc with resultant heat in that particular area where the wires were bended. Imagine shorting two battery connector wires together and the resultant heat it produces... the melting could be more of a byproduct of a short rather than the cause... or the heat could have softened and weakened the wiring allowing the short and even more heat to be produced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 1 minute ago, meepmeepmayer said: Thinking about it... how did it even melt the silicon? It's a few cm away from the melted cables, and the black motor wire right as it comes out of the hub goes between the two, and it has no visible heat damage. Induction via the magnet? I don't think the silicon melted. It probably came off during the jolt when the wheel crashed. I read elsewhere that the magnets can come lose. I hate to be a broken record, but this is another poor choice on Gotway's part for securing the magnets. Adhesives are certainly OK to use, but clearly they didn't select the proper type for adhering the magnets to the plastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 1 minute ago, Marty Backe said: Next time I open my case I may install some spacers to keep the cabling separate. Thats a good idea! I will also keep going...my question to your hill riding was rethorical :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, Pingouin said: Do you think this is possible only in climb situations, or also by going fast on flat ? I'm wondering too. I have not done any long rides (more than 15 min without a stop) fast rides (25 km/h max, and not for long) rides in hotter weather (5°C or less til now) yet, so no idea how safe the ACM is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: I don't think the silicon melted. It probably came off during the jolt when the wheel crashed. I read elsewhere that the magnets can come lose. I hate to be a broken record, but this is another poor choice on Gotway's part for securing the magnets. Adhesives are certainly OK to use, but clearly they didn't select the proper type for adhering the magnets to the plastic. The silicon around the magnet is slightly melted to the motor cable and wheel shell, it's not just the magnet holding it in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 1 minute ago, meepmeepmayer said: The silicon around the magnet is slightly melted to the motor cable and wheel shell, it's not just the magnet holding it in place. Maybe it melted after it fell off the side and hit the wiring/motor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 4 minutes ago, Pingouin said: think this is possible only in climb situations, or also by going fast on flat ? Hopfully this design issue gets solved q This massive amps are only pushed on extrem situations, with much wattage... On fast driving you need this extrem wattage/amps only for the acceleration...once you are gliding, even on 40kmh, you only need about 800watt...but not 2400-3000 like on a continuous uphill. You have the "heat sensor infrared thingie", or? I guess your hill wasnt extrem enough...you should check on a test in an app that you -at least- need 2000-2400Watt continuous to climb that steep hill, otherwise you will not find any heat generated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingouin Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 5 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: I'm wondering too. I have not done any long rides (more than 15 min without a stop) fast rides (25 km/h max, and not for long) rides in hotter weather (5°C or less til now) yet, so no idea how safe the ACM is. I have done long rides without a stop (+1h) +10 minutes in 15-20° climbs @10-20kph fast rides (+35kph but not for long) no rides in hot weather (max 12°C) The only real difference I see is that we do not weight the same...but does that make such a huge difference in amperage ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 @Marty Backe The magnet is exactly in the right spot, so it looks to me it fused with the shell and when I opened the side panel, kept being stuck to the shell. It does not look like it was ever loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: Maybe it melted after it fell off the side and hit the wiring/motor? If you see the black burn on the white sidepad...there seams to have been a lot heat... Perhaps from the short...and not from the heat of the wire..who knows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 This thread is hot, and so were the motor wires apparently Sorry, gallows humor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingouin Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 1 minute ago, KingSong69 said: This massive amps are only pushed on extrem situations, with much wattage... On fast driving you need this extrem wattage/amps only for the acceleration...once you are gliding, even on 40kmh, you only need about 800watt...but not 2400-3000 like on a continuous uphill. You have the "heat sensor infrared thingie", or? I guess your hill wasnt extrem enough...you should check on a test in an app that you -at least- need 2000-2400Watt continuous to climb that steep hill, otherwise you will not find any heat generated You must be right, if riding at speeds doesn't demand that much power, then that's great because falling at high speeds is my greatest fear ! No I don't have anything like that, I only checked for visual mealting inside the wheel after riding. I don't think it can be considered a "hill", it was a steep climb in the moutains, but I have no idea what power output was going on at that time.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: If you see the black burn on the white sidepad...there seams to have been a lot heat... Perhaps from the short...and not from the heat of the wire..who knows... I think the burn is because the wires directly touched the side panel. The shell, the battery (plastic foil etc) show no signs of any damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Hopefully the motor and the control board are still fine. There are three motor wires and some thinner hall sensor wires coming from the motor. The hall sensors allow the control board to sense how the motor is turning. If those melted wires can be separated, inspected, and wrapped up with electical tape it would allow you to temporaily test if the motor and control board are okay. I would not ride it patched up though. I would say the unit should be returned. Whether you want to wait for a better engineered wheel for your purposes or get another one and safety mod it with heat insulators it's up to you. It appears to me that this wheel failed under heavy duty usage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 5 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: It appears to me that this wheel failed under heavy duty usage. Thats the key point....if the connector does not fail..the wires then seam to... @meepmeepmayer may i ask how heavy you are? As i am 90kg (minus 10 since January, applause, please :-) )...and wanted an 84volt Acm also... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Holy Sh.t @meepmeepmayer!! I just returned to your galley of melted wires! This sucks! I did not go back to my facility today to work on my ACM but looking at a photo I took of my wiring yesterday there appears to be a heat shielding type protective sleeve wrapped around my wires. Did you remove any of the sleeves during your investigation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 @KingSong69 76 without clothes... so 80 max with clothes/shoes during the accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 @Rehab1 I removed nothing. The first few photos I literally only removed the side panel and started doing pictures. edit: are all ACMs supposed to have these heat protectors, or only newer ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 1 minute ago, meepmeepmayer said: @KingSong69 76 without clothes... so 80 max with clothes/shoes during the accident. Thats no so much...really disappointing performance by GW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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