WARPed1701D Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Having ridden motorbikes to commute into and around London I got into the habit of always wearing a back protector and full gear. One time I rode to the gas station less than a mile from my house in just jeans, bike jacket, gloves and helmet (still more gear than many wear) and I felt naked without the protector (and my bike trousers and armored boots). In my EUC protective gear ordering spree I ordered a POC VRB Spine 2.0 back protectior as annoyingly the G-Form protective clothing I ordered omits any kind of spine protection from its shirt. The POC protector is a really nice non-newtonian padding style full back protector but I'm now wondering if it is overkill. I've not worn it on the EUC so it is (for a few more days) returnable to Amazon. Most of the worst kind of EUC injuries come as a result of a cut out style face-plant, meaning the spine is largely unaffected, but in the event of an overlean where the wheel platform remains somewhat solid there seems to be some hope of getting a few steps down before rolling out of the fall. Here I can see some benefit to having the protector. I also see advantages in the event of a downhill overvoltage failure causing the wheel to slide out in front of you landing you on your arse/back. I know some will consider a backpack to be spine protection, and to some degree it is, but in one review of the POC back protector a guy mentioned that he always wears his when downhilling his MTB as his, now paraplegic, girlfriend suffered spine injury in a downhill crash but was not injured by the environment it was infact from a dial-style tire pressure guage that was in her pack! So I'm looking for input from you all. Do you wear back protection, either as part of a jacket or as a specific protective device? Do you, from crash experience or just just an abundance on caution, think it is a good idea but maybe haven't got round to ordering something. Or do you just think it is overkill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 2 hours ago, WARPed1701D said: I know some will consider a backpack to be spine protection, and to some degree it is, but in one review of the POC back protector a guy mentioned that he always wears his when downhilling his MTB as his, now paraplegic, girlfriend suffered spine injury in a downhill crash but was not injured by the environment it was infact from a dial-style tire pressure guage that was in her pack! Backpacks will never protect your spine. Protection for cuts and bruises, yes, but chances that you break your spine are a lot higher when you fall on your backpack because either it is: - empty, in which case wearing it or not doesn't give any advantage - full, in which case the contents will either smash into your spine or help overstretch your spine over those contents when falling flat on your back. TBH I wouldn't bother with back protection when riding an EUC, unless you are doing a lot of riding in traffic and want to be prepared for when a car runs you over. In the case of the wheel sliding out in front of you you might as well consider "bump pants" (famous when learning how to snowboard ) to protect the tailbone. Thing is that you have to draw a line somewhere. Ideally you would need exactly the same outfit as someone running a motorcycle on track, to protect you in any way possible (and now they have airbag suits!), but who would want to ride like that . (ex motorcyclist myself, adhered to the ATGATT motto). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARPed1701D Posted July 31, 2017 Author Share Posted July 31, 2017 31 minutes ago, ir_fuel said: Backpacks will never protect your spine. Protection for cuts and bruises, yes, but chances that you break your spine are a lot higher when you fall on your backpack because either it is: - empty, in which case wearing it or not doesn't give any advantage - full, in which case the contents will either smash into your spine or help overstretch your spine over those contents when falling flat on your back. TBH I wouldn't bother with back protection when riding an EUC, unless you are doing a lot of riding in traffic and want to be prepared for when a car runs you over. In the case of the wheel sliding out in front of you you might as well consider "bump pants" (famous when learning how to snowboard ) to protect the tailbone. Thing is that you have to draw a line somewhere. Ideally you would need exactly the same outfit as someone running a motorcycle on track, to protect you in any way possible (and now they have airbag suits!), but who would want to ride like that . (ex motorcyclist myself, adhered to the ATGATT motto). I'm in complete agreement regarding the backpack. Because of the risk of tail bone injury I have already purchased G-Form Board and Ski shorts. They are compression fit and go under regular clothes. They have protection for tail and sit bones in them. I just wish their shirt afforded something for the spine, especially the area just above the small of the back that becomes quite bony when bent forward (or curled if rolling from a fall). I live in Florida right now so the extra heat of a spine protector is a concern but I do expect to be on the roads quite a bit (bike lanes mainly) and we have a very large population of old people who shouldn't be on the road. Drink and drug driving is also an issue in my county due to the fact the tourist industry is the main economy around here (tourists having fun and a large number of low education, minimum wage locals trying to forget their worries). Getting rear ended by a driver while wheeling is on my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Just wear a motorcycle back protector? I just to use one of these: Once you get used to it (as I did on the bike) you'll feel "naked" without the feeling of that thing on your back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingfelder Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 I do think the spine could be involved in a roll that's done incorrectly. I've rolled out on a bicycle at a good 30 mph, flying in the air, though, and my back came out completely okay, But I had time to see the crash coming and have a lot of experiencing training in falls. More likely, perhaps, would be a tweaked shoulder or hurt shoulder blade, from not curling into the roll smoothly or quickly enough. I also hurt my ankle on rolling back up again, because I couldn't control the momentum, turning it into a sort of crack the whip situation with my foot as the end of the whip. I wound up standing, but limping. My best guess is that in a roll done halfway well, the spine may be one of the safer spots your body rolls along. It's not going to take immediate impact and isn't in danger of immediate dislocation from a bad start, and isn't going to face either much strain or any impact from a bad finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acturbo Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 4 minutes ago, ir_fuel said: Just wear a motorcycle back protector? I just to use one of these: Once you get used to it (as I did on the bike) you'll feel "naked" without the feeling of that thing on your back. What if you just wear a backpack and fill it with cotton. That would be a soft landing........................... In all seriousness though, I landed on my back yesterday, did a full "back plant" and I think my backpack was a large reason why I was not more seriously injured(I had a scraped up right elbow and today I have soreness in the lower back). My backpack contained(ironically) most of my safety gear(knee pads, wrist guards, etc) and my EUC Charger. I can see how having a large volume in the backpack could be a problem but man am I glad I was wearing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingfelder Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 34 minutes ago, Acturbo said: What if you just wear a backpack and fill it with cotton. That would be a soft landing........................... In all seriousness though, I landed on my back yesterday, did a full "back plant" and I think my backpack was a large reason why I was not more seriously injured(I had a scraped up right elbow and today I have soreness in the lower back). My backpack contained(ironically) most of my safety gear(knee pads, wrist guards, etc) and my EUC Charger. I can see how having a large volume in the backpack could be a problem but man am I glad I was wearing it. LOL I like that ... get a bunch of safety gear -- then put it in your backpack in case you fall on your back! Thinking about this has made me wonder whether to get a backpack and carry metal water bottles in it or carry one with a water bladder in it you can access through a straw. Landing on metal sounds dangerous, and landing on water sounds fairly protective. But if you're doing that for safety considerations alone, the backpack becomes useless for carrying anything but the water bladder. Meh. Neither solution sounds ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acturbo Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 11 minutes ago, Dingfelder said: LOL I like that ... get a bunch of safety gear -- then put it in your backpack in case you fall on your back! Thinking about this has made me wonder whether to get a backpack and carry metal water bottles in it or carry one with a water bladder in it you can access through a straw. Landing on metal sounds dangerous, and landing on water sounds fairly protective. But if you're doing that for safety considerations alone, the backpack becomes useless for carrying anything but the water bladder. Meh. Neither solution sounds ideal. What have we learned here................................ Always wrap your knick knacks lovingly in bubble wrap before riding. Problem solved............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARPed1701D Posted July 31, 2017 Author Share Posted July 31, 2017 1 hour ago, ir_fuel said: Just wear a motorcycle back protector? I just to use one of these: Once you get used to it (as I did on the bike) you'll feel "naked" without the feeling of that thing on your back. That is basically what the POC is like except broader in the shoulders which I wanted because of shoulder blade protection. It overlaps the tail bone protector in the shorts. I used to have a Knox protector for the bike. It rolled up pretty small when stored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARPed1701D Posted July 31, 2017 Author Share Posted July 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Dingfelder said: I do think the spine could be involved in a roll that's done incorrectly. I've rolled out on a bicycle at a good 30 mph, flying in the air, though, and my back came out completely okay, But I had time to see the crash coming and have a lot of experiencing training in falls. More likely, perhaps, would be a tweaked shoulder or hurt shoulder blade, from not curling into the roll smoothly or quickly enough. I also hurt my ankle on rolling back up again, because I couldn't control the momentum, turning it into a sort of crack the whip situation with my foot as the end of the whip. I wound up standing, but limping. My best guess is that in a roll done halfway well, the spine may be one of the safer spots your body rolls along. It's not going to take immediate impact and isn't in danger of immediate dislocation from a bad start, and isn't going to face either much strain or any impact from a bad finish. It is strange that I never felt the need to pad up as well on my bicycle but with the EUC being hot from behind by a vehicle seems more unpleasant. Maybe because the rear wheel and triangle of the bike would take some of the impact. Never really put to much thought to going over the bars. It seemed to unlikely even though my Brompton has 16" wheels. The POC protector has good shoulder blade coverage. Where the shoulder protection ends in the shirt it starts in the protector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARPed1701D Posted July 31, 2017 Author Share Posted July 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Acturbo said: What if you just wear a backpack and fill it with cotton. That would be a soft landing........................... In all seriousness though, I landed on my back yesterday, did a full "back plant" and I think my backpack was a large reason why I was not more seriously injured(I had a scraped up right elbow and today I have soreness in the lower back). My backpack contained(ironically) most of my safety gear(knee pads, wrist guards, etc) and my EUC Charger. I can see how having a large volume in the backpack could be a problem but man am I glad I was wearing it. Thanks for sharing this story. Adds weight to my inclination to keep it. Glad you are OK. Out of interest. What caused the back plant? Did your charger survive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARPed1701D Posted July 31, 2017 Author Share Posted July 31, 2017 42 minutes ago, Dingfelder said: LOL I like that ... get a bunch of safety gear -- then put it in your backpack in case you fall on your back! Thinking about this has made me wonder whether to get a backpack and carry metal water bottles in it or carry one with a water bladder in it you can access through a straw. Landing on metal sounds dangerous, and landing on water sounds fairly protective. But if you're doing that for safety considerations alone, the backpack becomes useless for carrying anything but the water bladder. Meh. Neither solution sounds ideal. I'm a huge fan of metal water bottles over chemical leeching plastic one but I wouldn't have one in my pack while riding. I imagine a fall in just the right spot risks some serious injury. Anything solid does I guess. Back protector under the backpack! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electricpen Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 It seems like it would be a good idea for someone to make backpacks for cyclists/EUC riders that have something like the spine protector - built into the padding of the backpack where it rests on your back. This way even if you have oddly shaped objects in the backpack, the padding/shell should prevent these from poking you in such a way that you suffer a serious back injury... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 7 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said: Landing on metal sounds dangerous, and landing on water sounds fairly protective. But if you're doing that for safety considerations alone, the backpack becomes useless for carrying anything but the water bladder. Not useless as far as developing the core muscles. That is a good idea actually, five pounds of water in a rubber bladder will help develop stamina and strength by riding the wheel, and absorb the shock of a backplant. Thanks, @Dingfelder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acturbo Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 1 minute ago, WARPed1701D said: Thanks for sharing this story. Adds weight to my inclination to keep it. Glad you are OK. Out of interest. What caused the back plant? Did your charger survive? I was coming down a moderate hill onto a cobblestone street. The gentleman in the car in front of me(on the street) was creeping super slow around the corner as I was trying to come down off the curb onto the cobblestone street. Naturally, I was creeping toward the street awaiting him to continue the turn and give me a clear path. I finally come down off the curb after the gentleman made it apparent he had no intention of speeding up and was going to continue at his 2 mph pace. I came down off the curb and made a left to slowly pass him on the left side of his vehicle. After making the left I'm not really sure what happened. I turned onto the cobblestone street slowed a bit more and next thing I knew I was on my back. Not sure if it was a slick surface or if the wheel hit a rut it didn't like. I was on my way to meet some other folk for a group ride and just kept thinking "well this trip is over". I got up looked at myself and noticed the only visible damage to myself was a scraped and bloody right elbow. I grabbed my wheel and continued on my way to meet the rest of the group and completed our 40 mile trip without issue. All my safety gear was in my bag as I had a short trip to meet them and never put any of it on. Lesson learned(although not sure any of it would have helped me landing on my back). I guess I'm sort of fortunate I didn't put any of it on as it helped cushion my fall. Charger was fine, I used it later in the trip with no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 18 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said: What caused the back plant? I had a back plant last week from slowing to a stop to do reverse riding and then aggressively leaning backwards to go backwards. The Ninebot could not cope and gave up. It beeped once, but that's it, I went down. Even going 0 mph it was not a good fall. Since then I have been more aware of the limits of the power, and stopped forcing the wheel. Getting more in touch with the wheel. But you have more battery and weigh less than me. You should have more reserve for safety. But the Ninebot feels fairly strong when accelerating forward, I think it is safe, but I am 6'3" 210lbs, so I would certainly be safer on a wheel with bigger batteries. I very slightly strained one of my wrists, the most damage was to my clothes, I fell in a sandy spot that had been rained on the day before and my jeans had dirt on them. I soiled my clothes, literally, but didn't s*** my pants. I also Mike Tysoned on a hoverboard a couple times, having your rideable shoot out in front of you seems way worse than going forward and falling off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 1 hour ago, Dingfelder said: Thinking about this has made me wonder whether to get a backpack and carry metal water bottles in it or carry one with a water bladder in it you can access through a straw. Ok we have water bottle backpack that might offer some thoracic spinal protection. Not exactly sure where the straw is going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 16 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: Ok we have water bottle backpack that might offer some thoracic spinal protection. Not exactly sure where the straw is going. If i had farted forcibly, my hands would not have been damaged? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARPed1701D Posted August 1, 2017 Author Share Posted August 1, 2017 50 minutes ago, electricpen said: It seems like it would be a good idea for someone to make backpacks for cyclists/EUC riders that have something like the spine protector - built into the padding of the backpack where it rests on your back. This way even if you have oddly shaped objects in the backpack, the padding/shell should prevent these from poking you in such a way that you suffer a serious back injury... That is a stunning idea. It would benefit this community and the downhill Mtb crew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARPed1701D Posted August 1, 2017 Author Share Posted August 1, 2017 51 minutes ago, Acturbo said: I was coming down a moderate hill onto a cobblestone street. The gentleman in the car in front of me(on the street) was creeping super slow around the corner as I was trying to come down off the curb onto the cobblestone street. Naturally, I was creeping toward the street awaiting him to continue the turn and give me a clear path. I finally come down off the curb after the gentleman made it apparent he had no intention of speeding up and was going to continue at his 2 mph pace. I came down off the curb and made a left to slowly pass him on the left side of his vehicle. After making the left I'm not really sure what happened. I turned onto the cobblestone street slowed a bit more and next thing I knew I was on my back. Not sure if it was a slick surface or if the wheel hit a rut it didn't like. I was on my way to meet some other folk for a group ride and just kept thinking "well this trip is over". I got up looked at myself and noticed the only visible damage to myself was a scraped and bloody right elbow. I grabbed my wheel and continued on my way to meet the rest of the group and completed our 40 mile trip without issue. All my safety gear was in my bag as I had a short trip to meet them and never put any of it on. Lesson learned(although not sure any of it would have helped me landing on my back). I guess I'm sort of fortunate I didn't put any of it on as it helped cushion my fall. Charger was fine, I used it later in the trip with no problem. I'm glad you survived OK. Cobblestones are terrible on a bike let alone a Unicycle. Goes to show that it is easy to fall when you least expect it. 28 minutes ago, steve454 said: I had a back plant last week from slowing to a stop to do reverse riding and then aggressively leaning backwards to go backwards. The Ninebot could not cope and gave up. It beeped once, but that's it, I went down. Even going 0 mph it was not a good fall. Since then I have been more aware of the limits of the power, and stopped forcing the wheel. Getting more in touch with the wheel. But you have more battery and weigh less than me. You should have more reserve for safety. But the Ninebot feels fairly strong when accelerating forward, I think it is safe, but I am 6'3" 210lbs, so I would certainly be safer on a wheel with bigger batteries. I very slightly strained one of my wrists, the most damage was to my clothes, I fell in a sandy spot that had been rained on the day before and my jeans had dirt on them. I soiled my clothes, literally, but didn't s*** my pants. I also Mike Tysoned on a hoverboard a couple times, having your rideable shoot out in front of you seems way worse than going forward and falling off. I agree. If rather real forward than back. It seems you have no chance falling backwards. You are going down and it will hurt even with no horizontal speed. I'm glad it was just sand on your pants! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 12 minutes ago, steve454 said: If i had farted forcibly, my hands would not have been damaged? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catlord17 Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Perhaps we should just wear this and be done with it. Looks an awful lot like the armor I was designing in my head for if I got a motorcycle anyway.... http://www.originalstormtrooper.com/original-stormtrooper-ultimate-combo-deal-217-p.asp# Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARPed1701D Posted August 1, 2017 Author Share Posted August 1, 2017 4 minutes ago, Catlord17 said: Perhaps we should just wear this and be done with it. Looks an awful lot like the armor I was designing in my head for if I got a motorcycle anyway.... http://www.originalstormtrooper.com/original-stormtrooper-ultimate-combo-deal-217-p.asp# You'd slide well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catlord17 Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Just now, WARPed1701D said: You'd slide well! And hopefully would not get road rash. But it doesn't look as thick as what I was designing. Regardless, something like a suit of plastic plate mail would work. I can just imagine the amount of attention a storm trooper on an EUC would get! Of course in Florida, this would be instant heat stroke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARPed1701D Posted August 1, 2017 Author Share Posted August 1, 2017 3 minutes ago, Catlord17 said: Of course in Florida, this would be instant heat stroke. I'm getting it just thinking about it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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