Carlos E Rodriguez Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 I which I could have the last say here but all this defensive ideas that require engagement are bad. Shooting someone can only be considered self defense if you can prove your life is endangered. Same for stabbing. Assaulting a thief would also put you in trouble if there are no witnesses. Your word against his/her. Assaulting someone could produce injuries and death and put you in jail or financial ruin for the rest of your life. DONT BE STUPID. WEAR A BODY CAM IF YOU THINK YOU NEED THAT PROTECTION. IF YOU ARE CERTAIN YOU WILL BE ROBBED, RUN AND SCREAM. YOUR BODY CAM WILL CATCH THEM LATER. THE LAW DOES NOT PROTECT PROACTIVE DEFENSE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RooEUC Posted June 2, 2017 Author Share Posted June 2, 2017 14 minutes ago, Carlos E Rodriguez said: I which I could have the last say here but all this defensive ideas that require engagement are bad. Shooting someone can only be considered self defense if you can prove your life is endangered. Same for stabbing. Assaulting a thief would also put you in trouble if there are no witnesses. Your word against his/her. Assaulting someone could produce injuries and death and put you in jail or financial ruin for the rest of your life. DONT BE STUPID. WEAR A BODY CAM IF YOU THINK YOU NEED THAT PROTECTION. IF YOU ARE CERTAIN YOU WILL BE ROBBED, RUN AND SCREAM. YOUR BODY CAM WILL CATCH THEM LATER. THE LAW DOES NOT PROTECT PROACTIVE DEFENSE. It is not about stupidity. I can only assume that you have never been attacked before. It can happen to anyone and you cannot plan for it. Some awful attacks happen in very safe areas during daylight to people who are doing nothing at all to deserve being attacked. All you can do is at least think about the 'what if?'s ahead of time so that if you are unfortunate enough to experience being attacked in the street or in a park or anywhere some day in the future, you might have some sort of action plan that might save your personal safety. I really don't understand why people are putting out this body cam idea as if that will save the day. The thief/attacker will steal or destroy a camera if you have one strapped to your head or body so that there is no evidence, or just to resell for cash later. If I encounter a robber who wants to take my phone, wallet and unicycle I don't know if he will just take my stuff and run or if he's a psycho and will also beat me close to death. I will have only a few seconds to try to determine what kind of danger I am in. If it's a gang of 6 men wielding knives, I will have to try to run away, or just give up my things and hope for the best. But if it's just one or two unarmed 17 year-old punks, I am not likely to just hand over thousands of dollars worth of things that will be hard for me to replace, without some serious resistance. Working out ahead of time what tools and strategies I can have prepared gives me at least some advantages over just blissfully ignoring the topic and saying "don't worry about it". As I keep saying, just going out for a walk on a sunny Friday evening brings a small risk of attack, but being on an EUC draws more attention from bad people than just walking, so I think the risk for us is higher. I am fortunate to live in a very safe part of the world but there are a small number of scumbags no matter where you live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos E Rodriguez Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 34 minutes ago, RooMiniPro said: It is not about stupidity. I can only assume that you have never been attacked before. It can happen to anyone and you cannot plan for it. Some awful attacks happen in very safe areas during daylight to people who are doing nothing at all to deserve being attacked. All you can do is at least think about the 'what if?'s ahead of time so that if you are unfortunate enough to experience being attacked in the street or in a park or anywhere some day in the future, you might have some sort of action plan that might save your personal safety. I really don't understand why people are putting out this body cam idea as if that will save the day. The thief/attacker will steal or destroy a camera if you have one strapped to your head or body so that there is no evidence, or just to resell for cash later. If I encounter a robber who wants to take my phone, wallet and unicycle I don't know if he will just take my stuff and run or if he's a psycho and will also beat me close to death. I will have only a few seconds to try to determine what kind of danger I am in. If it's a gang of 6 men wielding knives, I will have to try to run away, or just give up my things and hope for the best. But if it's just one or two unarmed 17 year-old punks, I am not likely to just hand over thousands of dollars worth of things that will be hard for me to replace, without some serious resistance. Working out ahead of time what tools and strategies I can have prepared gives me at least some advantages over just blissfully ignoring the topic and saying "don't worry about it". As I keep saying, just going out for a walk on a sunny Friday evening brings a small risk of attack, but being on an EUC draws more attention from bad people than just walking, so I think the risk for us is higher. I am fortunate to live in a very safe part of the world but there are a small number of scumbags no matter where you live. Yes it is. You just said if it is six you will just run away. But if it just one or two you will fight. So one is doable but six is not. How about if the one pull a gun the minute you try to defend your property? Now you are dead. So you rather risk your life and face a person set to rob you. Such person already does not care if he goes to jail and must likely is set to follow through once started. You have control up to the point you decide to engage. You lose control by engaging. You have no way of knowing what next level the robber will use. You engaging is not a deterrent. If you run away and take defensive evasive action, then you are always in control of the outcome. Protecting your property with force will most likely put you in jail. So you need to prepare by knowing how to break off an attacker and fleeing with minimal engagement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kour Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 I know I probably sound like a broken record, but once you reach the point where you can just flick out a baton not very many people are going to want to deal with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kour Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 regarding courts and legal proceedings, look at that one poor Denver kid who got beat up - if a case ever did go forward, who do you think the judge would side with? at least if he had had a baton he could've taught at least one of those lowlifes a lesson - doesn't take much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kour Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 I've been mugged, and one time some crazy dude just climbed into my car(now I am carless) while I was waiting at a traffic light - fortunately he wasn't violent - but that latter incident changed how I viewed my surroundings... If I had just had something lying there next to me.. anything, a sheathed knife, a mini-baseball bat... you never know. it's not good to go around thinking about how people might assault you, but you can help yourself by having something at the ready that doesn't need much thinking about.. kind of like a convenience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kour Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 now that I think about it, I think I'd have to defer to @LanghamP regarding these matters...ONLY... i'll still smile at my public Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 32 minutes ago, kour said: now that I think about it, I think I'd have to defer to @LanghamP regarding these matters...ONLY... i'll still smile at my public Aw shucks. Well I've had a few beat-downs, never won one. I get into confrontations about twice a year, usually with complete strangers. The risks of public transportation. This is probably the most useful video for such situations, at least for me. It is kinda hard to explain; watch the video several times but basically you can walk away with great speed while keeping your chin protected with your shoulder and an eye on your opponent. It doesn't appear confrontational at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingfelder Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 9 hours ago, Carlos E Rodriguez said: If you carry a gun and you get injured on a fall, a mercifull pedestrian can stop and put you out of your misery. LOL. Haha! Yeah, that might be the best outcome for all concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingfelder Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 9 hours ago, RooMiniPro said: Excellent Post! And I was totally with you right up to the point where you brought the guns in. For most of us outside America, we are not legally able to or personally willing to ride around with a gun. So we have to think of other strategies. You made a lot of excellent points about the skills and mentality to be able to defend ourselves. This is hard. As generally good, honest, peaceful citizens we are automatically at a disadvantage to the attacker because, unlike him, most of us are not prepared for or experienced in intentially causing other people serious bodily harm. And we are concerned about consequences. They, on the other hand, have been in plenty of fights, stolen from plenty of people before, and have little regard for the law, for our personal safety or for consequences that might arise after the attack. Just overcoming that is tough. I don't want to have to smash someone's face in with a metal water bottle when I'm out and about, but some of the bad guys out there are actually looking for an opportunity to fight and hurt a stranger. I have been attacked in my teens by total strangers who just wanted to somehow impress their degenerate friends by hurting someone they didn't know. Exactly. Some people don't need what ordinary folks would consider a real reason. And some people are just nuts. I've been threatened by both. I remember once a homeless guy threatened me with a broken bottle and start shouting at me that I was not going to kill him the way I killed his friend. I was lucky I got away from that one. But it just shows you how random things can be. Re guns, I wouldn't carry one on an EUC either, I don't think. You are not as in control of yourself as you need to be, which is very different from your status as a guy just walking around. It's hard to be a responsible person if you're injured and/or disoriented from a crash. And of course if you're knocked out, you're basically off the planet for a while, at which point anything could happen, including anything involving random kids coming up and poking around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kour Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 1 hour ago, LanghamP said: Aw shucks. Well I've had a few beat-downs, never won one. I get into confrontations about twice a year, usually with complete strangers. The risks of public transportation. This is probably the most useful video for such situations, at least for me. It is kinda hard to explain; watch the video several times but basically you can walk away with great speed while keeping your chin protected with your shoulder and an eye on your opponent. It doesn't appear confrontational at all. two things i like about this - first, the pivoting corresponds perfectly with having one foot on your wheel! second, the walk or jog option - that's a good insight could be enhanced though... I really like #5 because you can duck in or act like you're stupid but then you've got the back-hand action - just turn your wrist and then you're a padlock around the neck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizardmech Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 Just carry a sword everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingfelder Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 I'm hoping when I go along with my dog, it may make some people think twice. It's only a medium-sized dog, but many people are extremely nervous about dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbfrese Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 8 hours ago, Carlos E Rodriguez said: THE LAW DOES NOT PROTECT PROACTIVE DEFENSE. It does in EVERY U.S. state. You don't have to wait to be attacked before defending yourself, even in the most leftist states. Besides, you do not need to prove that your life was actually endangered, either. You are also allowed to use deadly force to protect against serious bodily injury, too. You don't have to show that you WOULD have been killed or injured without having used deadly force, only that a reasonable person would fear death or serious bodily injury under those circumstances. That is why it is perfectly legal to use deadly force against someone who points a realistic looking toy gun (or a real gun that incapable of firing because it is broken or unloaded) at you and you fear you might be shot. Unless they hand the gun over to you first for careful inspection, how would you know any differently? Please, please, please do not dispense false legal advice that could cause someone to fail to act and could actually cost an innocent person his life because he is under the misapprehension that he must take the first punch, or shot, or knife wound before he can defend himself. It is simply not true anywhere in the U.S. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos E Rodriguez Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 27 minutes ago, dbfrese said: It does in EVERY U.S. state. You don't have to wait to be attacked before defending yourself, even in the most leftist states. Besides, you do not need to prove that your life was actually endangered, either. You are also allowed to use deadly force to protect against serious bodily injury, too. You don't have to show that you WOULD have been killed or injured without having used deadly force, only that a reasonable person would fear death or serious bodily injury under those circumstances. That is why it is perfectly legal to use deadly force against someone who points a realistic looking toy gun (or a real gun that incapable of firing because it is broken or unloaded) at you and you fear you might be shot. Unless they hand the gun over to you first for careful inspection, how would you know any differently? Please, please, please do not dispense false legal advice that could cause someone to fail to act and could actually cost an innocent person his life because he is under the misapprehension that he must take the first punch, or shot, or knife wound before he can defend himself. It is simply not true anywhere in the U.S. Period. That's not what I said. My first statement basically covers what you said. Your lethal use of force is permitted if you can demonstrate that your life is in danger. But at the end is a zero sum game. One life for another life does not sound like a good outcome. But if you brake away both live. The stand your ground have been challenged and many times found unfavorable because the defense used unjustified force. Sonidbyouvuse it you better understand when you are permitted. So take your chances but I am sure in the heat of the moment your are very likely to make the wrong choice. Even trained police make wrong choices in stressful encounters and that does not forgive the outcome. By the way don't get all bent out of shape. We are talking about the scenarios where someone wants to take your unicycle. I don't think it's worth him loosing his life or me loosing mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 The law in Sweden gives some leeway for self-defence that is not premeditated, but a response to danger or emotional affectation like fear or anger caused of an attack on you. But carrying an obvious weapon around is premeditation, and you'll have to show that you had a valid reason for possessing that weapon. One that isn't keeping it in store to beat up an attacker. There is also some leeway for more violence than the situation absolutely requires, but not much. My own strategies for threatening situations are, in falling order: Avoid the situation: Be aware of your surroundings and don't foolhardily put yourself in obviously dangerous situations. Walk off: Trying to make light of the situation while moving away like you were going that way anyways. Money is just money: If giving up your cell-phone, money or other valuables will end the situation, that is just material shit. I have insurance for such problems. If I have to fight, then by God I will: If I realise that I can't avoid, can't evade, and that money won't end it, then I'll use anything I have to make sure the other guy(s) will regret it, and worry about the rest later. I usually carry around a couple of mech-mods (heavy copper-tube e-cigarettes with an 18650 in them). They're just the right size to stabilise the hand for a punch. And if you glance the attacker, or hammer at them, the contact will be metal on body. They're not weapons, so they will not make me look like an attacker in court. I am one of those people that goes cold in dangerous situations, like the danger doesn't really affect me. I go all trauma-shaky afterwards, but not until the situation is actually over. What I'm most afraid of is getting to alternative four and it ends in me sending someone to hospital or worse. Or getting ganged up upon, sucker-punched and then kicked into oblivion. I have three kids and a lovely SO, and while I'm not very physically scared as a person, but the thought of leaving them behind is not funny. So alternative one is really what I always strive for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingfelder Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 I also worry that some punks are the type who don't believe in taking blame, fair fights, getting what you were asking for, or that when it's over, it's over. I'm concerned that if you take one guy down, his inbred relatives will come after you. I've seen it said that if something truly bad goes down, the best thing to do is to move and the second best thing to do is to move temporarily. It's horrible to have to do something like that, but it's well worth considering. This kind of thing makes it so that there is no best case scenario once you're in a confrontation. If you lose, you lose, and if you win, you may lose even worse. The best and most sensible way to come out ahead is to stay out of trouble. Even if you have to go to some lengths to do so ... like avoiding the more convenient routes sometimes, or some places you'd like to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchet Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 Yep.Lower back= small of your back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kour Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 What what? Ooooooh... dude, you need to get some better lighting there. For the first half I thought I was watching some kinda weird masturbation by candlelight video there. Then I kinda saw a baton? Then I wondered some more... (had the sound muted on my iPhone) I was thinking whaaa? I guess that's a legit self-defense option if you whip it out and start yanking on the ol' nubbin. It likely would freak the attackers away pretty quickly.... or you could end up with a whole different set of problems depending on how they roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kour Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 it's basically bullshit that distracts you from the baton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kour Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 1 minute ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: What what? Ooooooh... dude, you need to get some better lighting there. For the first half I thought I was watching some kinda weird masturbation by candlelight video there. Then I kinda saw a baton? Then I wondered some more... (had the sound muted on my iPhone) lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Yeah, no even with the sound on it doesn't help. I think the time stamp start point puts it allllll out of context. "I'm really tugging on it at off angles here..." "I'm pulling it towards you..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingfelder Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 56 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: What what? Ooooooh... dude, you need to get some better lighting there. For the first half I thought I was watching some kinda weird masturbation by candlelight video there. Then I kinda saw a baton? Then I wondered some more... (had the sound muted on my iPhone) I was thinking whaaa? I guess that's a legit self-defense option if you whip it out and start yanking on the ol' nubbin. It likely would freak the attackers away pretty quickly.... or you could end up with a whole different set of problems depending on how they roll. I remember a stand-up comic saying that he protects himself from muggers by whipping it out, wanking and screaming. I wouldn't be surprised if it works, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrenchieEUC Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 On 6/23/2017 at 7:42 AM, Dingfelder said: I remember a stand-up comic saying that he protects himself from muggers by whipping it out, wanking and screaming. I wouldn't be surprised if it works, too. Louis CK ? by the way i would get a tazer, they're illegal here but the sound is enough to scare muggers as they go away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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