Jason McNeil Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Although there is much good to be said with King Song Wheels, there are also other areas that have plenty of room for improvement. One such example is the ergonomics & comfort of the pedal design. On my 15 mile round-trip commute each day, I find I'm having to make micro-adjustment to the foot position in order to make it more comfortable. For nearly a year I've been lobbying hard that King Song redesign the pedals across for all their products. At the Hong Kong Electronics fair in October, their demo KS 16" that had the new design & I was assured that these would be available on all the Wheels like the 18A & the 14B/C. A couple months elapsed and I kept getting information that they would be released any day, finally till late in December, Tina said the new pedals were in production but were not compatible with the 14" Wheels When our 14Bs/18As arrived two weeks ago, I found KS included almost a dozen parts with the new pedal upgrade kit. I wanted to find out why this new design was 'incompatible', so opened up a 14B & investigated. The original design has sharp ridges along the parallel that don't provide a great deal of surface contact with the foot, they weigh in at around 650gm (my scale only has 50gm increments) With the rubber sole, the new design has better grip and a longer horizontal axis, weight is about the same as well. New length is about 2cm more, but because the corners are contoured, the ground clearance on turns is roughly the same. Width is identical. Other view of the length from the side—notice the perforations in the old pedal design, new pedals have a hollow body, which is why they weigh the same. This is the reason why they don't fit the the 14" Wheel: during casting, they must have made a mistake with the result that the gap for the shaft is a fraction of a millimeter too narrow. For the test, I used a belt sander to shave this excess off of the pedal shaft. Compared to the original pedal, 4.5cm exactly! KS have different width & height shafts for the 18" and the 14". Their 'solution' for the 18" is that washers extensions be used to make it fit, but would you believe that the width of the original 18" shaft is not the same as the replacement with the pedals!! If thinking about using for the 18", the Wheel will need to come out & the shafts replaced (these are provided). The replacement shaft is too long for a 14" Wheel, should be fine for the 18". Pedals shafts compared. But that's not all! The genius CAD designer also thought he would change the groove below, ensuring the clip that holds the pedal closed would not fit!?! I was however, able to swap out the original to use in the new pedal. KS pedals also have tendency to bank slightly inwards. This I'm told is to prevent rider's feet from slipping off, but I'm not convinced. I think there is evidence to show that this is a contributing factor of discomfort [edit: when the pedals have a weight on them, the bank angle is around 6°]. Angle is not improved with the new pedal design. er Summary: while the new pedals are an improvement with added length & grip, it is clear that someone messed up with casting measurements, but with a bit of work, they can be made to fit the 14" Wheels as well. During some test rides, I found these pedals are a needed improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 This Bank slightly inwards i Found comfortable! and: After a bump on The Road or a Jump your Feet don't tend to slip outwards... i would also bring The 16 Pedals to my 14! My prob Is: i don't get them anyware:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Scott Will Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 I do actually like the angled pedals on 14c for the reason they cite- it keeps my feet inward and secure especially when they leave the pedals during bumps etc.. when I land they sink right back into place where I like them. However, I think the angle could be reduced slightly for better comfort. I've ridden other wheels with no angle at all your feet do feel like they're more prone to lateral slippage. My current daily driver is somewhere in between with a slight angle and it's just right. I'll be able to evaluate the new pedals on the ks16 tomorrow as mine arrives from @Jason McNeil tomorrow. So excited!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
who_the Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Thanks for your post, the rubber looks like it would provide some padding to prevent fatigue. Is it practical for you to sell pedal replacement kits for the KS-14C or would we have to modify parts ourselves to install these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johrhoj Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 The new KS18A model that I have, has the new pedals. The width of the pedals is 12 cm, same as the width of the soles of my shoes. However, I do not place my feet against the inside. The inside part of my sole leaves a gap of 2-3 cm to the inmost part of the pedal. This means that the outside part of the sole of my shoe sticks out the same amount. I would like the pedals to have a bit more width, say 14 cm. I simply cannot comfortably stand closer to the inside, because I do not have bandy legs. My shoesize is 11 (46). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted May 18, 2016 Author Share Posted May 18, 2016 11 hours ago, who_the said: Is it practical for you to sell pedal replacement kits for the KS-14C or would we have to modify parts ourselves to install these If the original shaft is ground down every so slightly, the replacement pedals will work with the 14C. 3 hours ago, johrhoj said: I would like the pedals to have a bit more width, say 14 cm. There's a trade off though with pedal length and ground clearance: if too long, you'll find that the tips will scrap the ground (which can be quite unnerving). I'd like KS to experiment with an inward bank angle of less than 5°. Using the KS18 for the first time this week, because of the high shell, I personally find that the ride could be more comfortable if there was less inward pressure against the sides caused by inward pedal tilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 @Jason McNeil Jason, with all due respect, I strongly disagree with you on pedal angle. I've been riding my KS-18A for 7 months now and prefer to keep my unit OEM (ie. no griptape or vinyl wrap, etc.) With a lesser angle, my feet would be more prone to flying off in inclement weather. Plus, I have never found it uncomfortable, and the angle also helps for one-leg maneuvers. If the angle had to be flattened out, though, it would need some kind of metal to stick up at the borders (please no rubber solutions that can wear down like the KS-16), to keep the foot from sliding off, specifically under wet conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidestreet Reny Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 On 5/17/2016 at 5:06 PM, Jason McNeil said: Although there is much good to be said with King Song Wheels, there are also other areas that have plenty of room for improvement. One such example is the ergonomics & comfort of the pedal design. On my 15 mile round-trip commute each day, I find I'm having to make micro-adjustment to the foot position in order to make it more comfortable. For nearly a year I've been lobbying hard that King Song redesign the pedals across for all their products. At the Hong Kong Electronics fair in October, their demo KS 16" that had the new design & I was assured that these would be available on all the Wheels like the 18A & the 14B/C. A couple months elapsed and I kept getting information that they would be released any day, finally till late in December, Tina said the new pedals were in production but were not compatible with the 14" Wheels When our 14Bs/18As arrived two weeks ago, I found KS included almost a dozen parts with the new pedal upgrade kit. I wanted to find out why this new design was 'incompatible', so opened up a 14B & investigated. The original design has sharp ridges along the parallel that don't provide a great deal of surface contact with the foot, they weigh in at around 650gm (my scale only has 50gm increments) With the rubber sole, the new design has better grip and a longer horizontal axis, weight is about the same as well. New length is about 2cm more, but because the corners are contoured, the ground clearance on turns is roughly the same. Width is identical. Other view of the length from the side—notice the perforations in the old pedal design, new pedals have a hollow body, which is why they weigh the same. This is the reason why they don't fit the the 14" Wheel: during casting, they must have made a mistake with the result that the gap for the shaft is a fraction of a millimeter too narrow. For the test, I used a belt sander to shave this excess off of the pedal shaft. Compared to the original pedal, 4.5cm exactly! KS have different width & height shafts for the 18" and the 14". Their 'solution' for the 18" is that washers extensions be used to make it fit, but would you believe that the width of the original 18" shaft is not the same as the replacement with the pedals!! If thinking about using for the 18", the Wheel will need to come out & the shafts replaced (these are provided). The replacement shaft is too long for a 14" Wheel, should be fine for the 18". Pedals shafts compared. But that's not all! The genius CAD designer also thought he would change the groove below, ensuring the clip that holds the pedal closed would not fit!?! I was however, able to swap out the original to use in the new pedal. KS pedals also have tendency to bank slightly inwards. This I'm told is to prevent rider's feet from slipping off, but I'm not convinced. I think there is evidence to show that this is a contributing factor of discomfort [edit: when the pedals have a weight on them, the bank angle is around 6°]. Angle is not improved with the new pedal design. er Summary: while the new pedals are an improvement with added length & grip, it is clear that someone messed up with casting measurements, but with a bit of work, they can be made to fit the 14" Wheels as well. During some test rides, I found these pedals are a needed improvement. Hey Jason is the angle on the new pedals steeper than the old ones, and if so, is it possible to switch them or maybe to shave them down? Or is there another mod to get the angle down a bit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetricUSA Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Good god, why must people requote, and especially right after the quoted post! What purpose was for the above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 @johrhoj @houseofjob and For all other Ks 18 Owners....800 or 1200 watt....does not matter......Look at this: http://www.1radwerkstatt.de/epages/80603321.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/80603321/Products/Pedal That is a Monster of Pedal :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Haha....and something Else gets to my mind :-) as 1radwerkstatt is now "official Kingsong exklusive Importer and partner" they are For sure allowed to Upgrade The Batterie on my Ks14...Without that i am Loosing my warranty.....Double Smile...somebody remembers this Diskussion???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johrhoj Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 I already have the pedals with the rubber pads in it, and i got totally at easy with them. I think (just guessing) that the rubber grip might be better then the grip on those pedals. And it is grip over size. I would like to try them nonetheless ... I remember the discussion. The more powerfull batteries, i still kinda want them. The farther, the better. It would add 10-15 km to the range. On the other hand i did not go full distance in one day yet. Yesterday i did 70 km with batteries still at 4 bars in the end. I also wonder what it would cost to get them replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 1 hour ago, johrhoj said: I already have the pedals with the rubber pads in it, and i got totally at easy with them. I think (just guessing) that the rubber grip might be better then the grip on those pedals. And it is grip over size. I would like to try them nonetheless ... I remember the discussion. The more powerfull batteries, i still kinda want them. The farther, the better. It would add 10-15 km to the range. On the other hand i did not go full distance in one day yet. Yesterday i did 70 km with batteries still at 4 bars in the end. I also wonder what it would cost to get them replaced. the advantage of the new pedals of 1rad are there size...they are 25 cm long...good for 45 shoes i think... the batterie discusssion for you is not worth to mention...you would have to change one 680 pack to a 828 pack...and that for about 500 euro for the new pack... on my side was the discusiion that i want to upgrade frome one pack 340 to ...plus a second pack which means 340 plus 340 =680 on my ks14 where Ks France said then i would loose warranty, cause not done by KS original....but now 1rad is officiial Ks partner ;-) aaaah ....but search there Facebook side....they also provide an external 828wh pack.....including 16amp charge :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted June 12, 2016 Author Share Posted June 12, 2016 9 hours ago, KingSong69 said: http://www.1radwerkstatt.de/epages/80603321.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/80603321/Products/Pedal That is a Monster of Pedal :-) Wow, is that CNC'd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 5 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said: Wow, is that CNC'd? yeah! they done that theirself! they are also doing something special fot the ninebot users! new sidepads with a plus 16s1p pack on each side that you have 640 wh at all on your 9b.... they are the best euc engineers, batterie providers, helpers i know! great guys!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted June 12, 2016 Author Share Posted June 12, 2016 Yeah, good guys, KS take note! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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