Bob Eisenman Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 (20+) Marty Backe | Facebook And when the clouds of euc dust finally settled only one rider was left standing.....'Meep' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 Your link does not work (for me - not logged in to FB), but this one does: https://www.facebook.com/groups/ElectricUnicycle/posts/6382564878508088/ Poor Marty. I'm wondering what was the cause of the cutout. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Eisenman Posted July 15, 2023 Author Share Posted July 15, 2023 (edited) 15 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: Poor Marty. I'm wondering what was the cause of the cutout. Good question..... I see a substantial growth in e-scooters around my neighborhood, Boston streets, local bus and subway passengers. EUC is a rare sight. Some...but not as many e-bikes. Edited July 15, 2023 by Bob Eisenman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 Begode sent him an A2 for testing with a street tire, because he did dislike the knobby tire so much. From the pictures, it's this wheel. They should probably have tested it before sending him a (bad!) wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Eisenman Posted July 15, 2023 Author Share Posted July 15, 2023 (edited) From: Wendy Cao "Hello Marty,we are very sorry to hear that you are hurted because A2 shut off.We have required our engineers to check where we should improve it. Except saying sorry, Is there something I can do for you? Hope you will recover soon." Google drive link to comment screen capture https://drive.google.com/file/d/1D617SQSLNewLeh0LGS2fPX3o1KwJbkDj/view?usp=drivesdk Edited July 15, 2023 by Bob Eisenman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 (edited) Dammit - poor Marty - I wish him a speedy recovery as I'm sure we all do ! At least the accident / reasons for it will be thoroughly investigated, explained and explored by him when he recovers. Not a criticism or anything, but as comprehensively geared up as he usually is, I've always thought he could do with a bit more around the ankle area - I wonder if MC boots would have saved him that injury ? Edited July 15, 2023 by Cerbera 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punxatawneyjoe Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 Sorry to hear this,hope he heals quickly. I wonder if it was the one they submerged? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Eisenman Posted July 15, 2023 Author Share Posted July 15, 2023 4 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said: Poor Marty. I'm wondering what was the cause of the cutout. So....overpower requests made to the euc leads to a unit shutdown (preserving the device electronics) but since a self balancing device requires power to maintain rider stability the operator loses. A forum search with the key word 'cutout' gives some 1600+ returns. https://forum.electricunicycle.org/search/?&q=Cutout&page=2&search_and_or=or The 'cutout-proof' wheels discussion linked above seems a reasonable place to start thinking about why 'cutouts' happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 Overpower based cutoffs leave the wheel powered on. Marty said that the A2 turned off mid ride. And knowing how he tends to ride, I’m pretty sure that this incident had nothing to do with an overlean. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Eisenman Posted July 15, 2023 Author Share Posted July 15, 2023 "The second type is due to electronics failure" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 Roger investigates the wheel in question... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 Oh, Marty even needs surgery! As Roger didn't find any obvious issue, I think it must be one of: Firmware issue Electronics fluke or subtle electronics damage Some EM-interference, and the wheel itself was good, just not shielded 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2disbetter Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 That is terrible, because Marty is always so cautious about such things. I hope he has a quick recovery and makes a full recovery on top of that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2disbetter Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 On 7/15/2023 at 4:05 PM, Cerbera said: Not a criticism or anything, but as comprehensively geared up as he usually is, I've always thought he could do with a bit more around the ankle area - I wonder if MC boots would have saved him that injury ? I think they might have. The boots I have are very strong around the ankle. Even if it still would have broken, the severity of the break would have been most likely lessened. When I broke my shoulder, I came down on my left foot first. My big toenail was the only causality. But that shows the impact was very high. My ankle didn't break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marty Backe Posted July 17, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted July 17, 2023 Hi Guys, Thought I'd post here, a bit of a follow-up. As you can see in Roger's video, no smoking gun was found, which is disconcerting. I was riding the wheel leisurely around my neighborhood. I had my kneepads and wristguards on (the wristguards saved my wrists for sure). Had been riding for probably 2-miles. mostly ~15-mph. It turned off. No beep that I remember and no beeping when it was on it's side. A neighbor helped place it in my wife's car and it was clearly OFF. When I got back from the ER I had my wife press the power button and it turned on. Can't imagine it being firmware otherwise there would be a lot of "turn-off's" occurring. It's not the motor because that wouldn't cause the wheel to turn off. Doesn't appear to be the battery. So I imagine there's a subtle crack or similar failure somewhere on the control board. From my perspective the wheel is going in the trash First true wheel failure in 7-years of riding and ~45-wheels. A wheel that turns off is much more dangerous than an overpower cutoff (where the pedals are still semi-balancing). You have zero control of the situation. In my case I fell backwards and the twisting wheel/pedals must have grabbed my foot and caused the damage: dislocation and 2-3 broken bones. I see the surgeon on Friday so maybe it gets fixed the following week. Having the use of only one leg is a major hurtle to living life. If your livelihood depends on having use of all limbs and you don't have good medical leave benefits, think twice about riding EUC's, particularly if you have a family that depends on you. 9 1 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2disbetter Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 Marty, your accident has had me really considering the very thing you bring up. 7 years of riding with no broken anything. And now here you are with a broken ankle. It makes me think the question with EUCs isn't if but when. Or rather that safety and quality should be priority number one with all wheels. In your case, do you feel your ankle would have been so entangled if you weren't using power pads? (sorry, I am assuming you were) The reason I ask, is because even though pads help us to better control the wheel, they also thwart our feet leaving the pedals in these kinds of sudden deacceleration scenarios. I wonder if your pads not been present if your foot would have more freely come away from the wheel and this break avoided. This is more of a general question regarding power pads. Do they represent an increase in injury in the event of a crash? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marty Backe Posted July 18, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted July 18, 2023 15 hours ago, 2disbetter said: Marty, your accident has had me really considering the very thing you bring up. 7 years of riding with no broken anything. And now here you are with a broken ankle. It makes me think the question with EUCs isn't if but when. Or rather that safety and quality should be priority number one with all wheels. In your case, do you feel your ankle would have been so entangled if you weren't using power pads? (sorry, I am assuming you were) The reason I ask, is because even though pads help us to better control the wheel, they also thwart our feet leaving the pedals in these kinds of sudden deacceleration scenarios. I wonder if your pads not been present if your foot would have more freely come away from the wheel and this break avoided. This is more of a general question regarding power pads. Do they represent an increase in injury in the event of a crash? This was the A2 with stock pads which nobody would confuse with power pads. When a wheel turns off (vs a cutoff where there is still some power and resistance in the turning tire) the wheel instantly becomes a floppy device which will rapidly turn and twist. I think it twisted to the left as the pedals fell backwards, twisting and breaking/dislocating my ankle. I landed on my butt/hands (thankfully I was wearing wristguards) and my foot was limp before it touched the ground. A wheel that turns off (vs cutoff) is the absolute worst case scenario for causing injury. It's impossible to roll or do any other maneuver to save yourself. This was a fluke hardware failure. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 (edited) Thanks for the updates Marty. Could I ask what the footwear situation was ? Were your ankles covered at all, and do you think something like MC boots would have helped / saved anything ? Indeed, most worrying when they just power off, and can be extra hard to diagnose why. Best of luck again in your recovery and eventual investigations ! Edited July 18, 2023 by Cerbera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2disbetter Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 10 hours ago, Marty Backe said: A wheel that turns off (vs cutoff) is the absolute worst case scenario for causing injury. Agreed. It is why I was thrown like a rocket into the ground when my V12 HT mainboard just died. I broke my shoulder as a result. I am on the mend now and riding again, but I keep my speeds down and there is this sinking fear anytime I go faster than 30mph. I just don't do it anymore. EUCs are amazing, but being a live is far more amazing. For all of these reasons, I kind of feel like the bigger wheels are just safer. They are more robust, have more redundancies. I look at the V13, for example. It is built like a tank. As of right now we have only had 1 cutout reported, if I am not mistaken. And that cut out saw Inmotion make an immediate change to the firmware over. I got another V12 HT, and I like how it is smaller and easier to handle, but I just don't have as much confidence in its un-suspended and no power redundancy construction. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UPONIT Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 2 hours ago, 2disbetter said: Agreed. It is why I was thrown like a rocket into the ground when my V12 HT mainboard just died. I broke my shoulder as a result. I am on the mend now and riding again, but I keep my speeds down and there is this sinking fear anytime I go faster than 30mph. I just don't do it anymore. EUCs are amazing, but being a live is far more amazing. For all of these reasons, I kind of feel like the bigger wheels are just safer. They are more robust, have more redundancies. I look at the V13, for example. It is built like a tank. As of right now we have only had 1 cutout reported, if I am not mistaken. And that cut out saw Inmotion make an immediate change to the firmware over. I got another V12 HT, and I like how it is smaller and easier to handle, but I just don't have as much confidence in its un-suspended and no power redundancy construction. I agree. Now that Wrong Way has confirmed that the V13 with deleted suspension and other COG-lowering alterations is a totally different, more stable and responsive wheel, I'm gonna rent one locally to try out in that configuration. Stability and reliability and caution and practice and luck = best chance of avoiding big injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn Bjerke Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 (edited) Marty you have done a lot for the community and I want to thank you for that, I hope for a speedy recovery. For what its worth I use these boots these days, Im not sure it helps in the scenario Marty desribes. Regarding V13 I ride at 60-70 kmh often, under 45 kmh the V13 seems clumsy and sort of unresponsive. I need suspension wheels else I get back problems - Id never take the suspension off my v13... I think its a bad idea. Boots here https://www.xlmoto.dk/product/mc-stovler-course-tall-sort_pid-PM-4945205 Tail bone protection is in my plastic armor and some terribly warm passion killers from G form .... Stay safe you good people Edited July 21, 2023 by Finn Bjerke more info 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Eisenman Posted July 21, 2023 Author Share Posted July 21, 2023 ATGATT (all the gear all the time) violation https://www.facebook.com/groups/ElectricUnicycle/permalink/6398263510271558/?app=fbl 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeforester Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 17 minutes ago, Bob Eisenman said: ATGATT (all the gear all the time) violation https://www.facebook.com/groups/ElectricUnicycle/permalink/6398263510271558/?app=fbl At least the balls did not get badly damaged…. but ouch - The poor knees! ‘Lucky’ that the speed involved was relatively low. Not the best choice of attire for the display. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel1234 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 On 7/17/2023 at 10:16 PM, Marty Backe said: Having the use of only one leg is a major hurtle to living life. If your livelihood depends on having use of all limbs and you don't have good medical leave benefits, think twice about riding EUC's, particularly if you have a family that depends on you. Well said - with the widespread adoption of EUC, I would like to see manufacturers again focus on rider safety. Mten4 / master v1 / T4 v1 and A4 are not safe vehicles out of the factory - there is very limited if any QC. I feel there is no design verification before the first batch. For me, this is serious WTF. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 Begode have an idea, but Roger thinks not... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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