Going from suspension to non-suspension

[Josh P]

Have any of you started on a suspension wheel and upgraded (downgraded?) to a non-suspension? My first wheel is a V11 and I would like to eventually get something with a bit more torque/speed. I've looked into the Sherman S, S22 pro, and Patton and they all seem great but each have something about them I'm not crazy about. The Sherman max really seems like the perfect wheel except for the one glaring exception - no suspension. I also haven't had the chance to ride any of the other suspension wheels.

I know I can get used to anything but am curious on your thoughts/opinions/recommendations. Is another suspension wheel the best way to go after learning on one?

Edited July 4, 2023 by Josh P

[mrelwood]

12 hours ago, Josh P said:

I know I can get used to anything

Well, getting used to a non-suspension wheel after a suspension seems to be the one thing people do not get used to…  I’ve only heard one person ever doing it. Don’t know how it fared long term.

If you haven’t tried one without, you might underestimate the importance of suspension, especially at higher speeds. There is a good reason why all modern wheels have a suspension.

I had to ride for a full day on a MSP HT after I got a flat on my V11. Worst day of my life! (Almost.) I will do whatever it takes to make sure that I won’t ever have to ride a non-suspension wheel ever again. It really is that bad. Takes all the joy out of riding.

Edited July 5, 2023 by mrelwood

[alcatraz]

To not have to depend on suspension is good, so for developing your skills it's not a bad idea to try it.

But as an upgrade, hmm. Bad idea probably, unless you need a challenge.

Suspension wheels are always going to average higher speeds without taking added risk.

I hear the Sherman-S is a wheel that is a really long lasting wheel. 

I'm going to get one eventually but I'm not in a rush. And in the meantime I'm going to enjoy the lightweight of my current wheels = 19-23kg. That's 23kg for a long range cruiser! Those days are long gone.

[Rawnei]

Of course you can but it doesn't feel great.

20 hours ago, Josh P said:

I've looked into the Sherman S, S22 pro, and Patton and they all seem great but each have something about them I'm not crazy about.

Like what? You just mentioned 3 of the best wheels. 😁

[techyiam]

21 hours ago, Josh P said:

The Sherman max really seems like the perfect wheel except for the one glaring exception - no suspension. I also haven't had the chance to ride any of the other suspension wheels.

You really need to test ride some wheels then decide. I can't see how you can conclude that the Sherman Max is the perfect wheel for you to upgrade to from a V11 without riding one first.

It has been reported that the Sherman Max rides very similarly to the OG Sherman. I have briefly rode an OG Sherman, and it definitely wasn't my cup of tea. Although, the OG Sherman was a popular wheel, there are riders that don't like to ride them.

[Josh P]

4 minutes ago, techyiam said:

You really need to test ride some wheels then decide. I can't see how you can conclude that the Sherman Max is the perfect wheel for you to upgrade to from a V11 without riding one first.

It has been reported that the Sherman Max rides very similarly to the OG Sherman. I have briefly rode an OG Sherman, and it definitely wasn't my cup of tea. Although, the OG Sherman was a popular wheel, there are riders that don't like to ride them.

I think mostly due to its size and, speed, battery- so, specs. But you’re 100% right, it’s impossible to know without riding first.

[Josh P]

1 hour ago, Rawnei said:

Of course you can but it doesn't feel great.

Like what? You just mentioned 3 of the best wheels. 😁

I know!! But Sherman S with its size and cost, S22 with its annoyance factor (I’ve read quite a bit about having to switch out components which I’m just not interested in), and with the patton just how new it is. I’m not in any kind of rush tho so maybe I dont need to worry the newness of the Patton.

[The Brahan Seer]

21 hours ago, Josh P said:

Have any of you started on a suspension wheel and upgraded (downgraded?) to a non-suspension?

I learned on the S18 but had a go on a MCM5 V2. I found it hard on the knee's and more tiring so more uncomfortable.

The instant torque felt good/better, lower pedals and direct connection with the surface is nice.

The drawback though is you need to ride very differently. On a suspension wheel it glides over everything you don't really need to look at the ground at all (certainly not as much but you get my point) and can spent the time looking around you more. On non suspension you need to be very mindful of the surface as you get bounced off potholes and stuff on the road.  

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by The Brahan Seer

[Rawnei]

14 minutes ago, Josh P said:

I know!! But Sherman S with its size and cost, S22 with its annoyance factor (I’ve read quite a bit about having to switch out components which I’m just not interested in), and with the patton just how new it is. I’m not in any kind of rush tho so maybe I dont need to worry the newness of the Patton.

Cost sure but SS is not that much bigger than Shermax. S22 Pro you don't really have to switch anything. Patton is already at Batch 3, it's a very nice wheel but pricey.

I wouldn't buy a non-suspension wheel in this day and age.

[Josh P]

37 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

Cost sure but SS is not that much bigger than Shermax. S22 Pro you don't really have to switch anything. Patton is already at Batch 3, it's a very nice wheel but pricey.

I wouldn't buy a non-suspension wheel in this day and age.

Good points and nah I don’t think I’m gonna

[Poker]

If I was in your shoes with no rush I might go for the commander mini or wait for the extreme.

Just because of them being lighter and cheaper than the Patton, then again if you are afraid of new things and potential hidden problems I guess its a dumb idea.

[Robse]

10 hours ago, mrelwood said:

 non-suspension wheel ever again. It really is that bad. Takes all the joy out of riding.

[OT]  Dont you ever say that to a Harley Hardtail owner 

[Punxatawneyjoe]

23 hours ago, Josh P said:

thoughts/opinions/recommendations

It doesn't make any sense to go from a suspension wheel with an IP rating to a non-suspension wheel you can't ride in the rain.

[dycus]

I went from suspension to non-suspension. My first real wheel was an S18, then I also got a Sherman Max. (Before all that I had a SoloWheel clone and a 14S, both only ever used to get around my former office building.)

I have about 700 miles on the S18, probably 25% off-road and 75% street. The suspension is great, it makes the ride so much more comfortable, but more importantly, much safer. Hitting small potholes is no problem, it doesn't throw the EUC into the air. When I'm making a turn and hit a bump, the wheel stays in control more easily because again, it isn't thrown into the air. When braking, especially braking hard, the tire stays planted even when hitting bumps. I think you see what I'm getting at here.

I love the S18, but I was doing a lot of street riding and wanted something faster and with more range, so I got the Max. I have about 700 miles on it as well. Don't get me wrong, I love the Max, but the lack of suspension can really be dangerous sometimes.
Hitting even small potholes can throw the wheel in the air, and it will bounce a couple times on landing. If the wheel doesn't land perfectly straight, it can induce wobbles or jerk the wheel as it straightens out again.
When making a turn at speed, I need to make sure not to hit any bumps or else the wheel will bounce, and centrifugal force will cause the wheel to fly outward a bit. This is more startling than anything, it feels like you completely lost all traction and the tire is sliding out before you land again. It can make you lose balance.
And when braking hard, hitting a bump can be especially dangerous, because if you continue braking, the wheel will bounce more and more and start wobbling. You need to lean forward again until the bouncing calms down before braking again.

Turns out, when you only have one wheel, it's hard to keep control when it's not on the ground!

Sure, all those issues are mitigated with experience, but it in my opinion, non-suspension wheels are undoubtedly more dangerous on non-ideal riding surfaces. If you're only riding smooth pavement, then absolutely go for it.
When riding on the street, so much of my attention has to be spent on scanning the road surface for even mundane bumps or potholes and making sure to avoid them, or brace for them. Which, by the way, you must always have your knees bent on non-suspension wheels to absorb unseen bumps. With suspension, I can focus a lot more on traffic and other dangers. (Of course, you should never lock your legs even with suspension, either)

Another downside is the low pedal height. I have the stock knobby on my Max, and it's difficult to turn sharply above ~15mph because my pedals will scrape (I do have Nylonoves, not the stock pedals). I feel like it needs a street tire just for that reason.

And offroad sucks with no suspension, I don't know how people stand it. The tiniest bump makes you lose traction as you bounce, not to mention the discomfort.

Anyway, that's all my personal experience and opinions, I'm sure some will say I just need to git gud. I think no amount of experience will ever make a non-suspension EUC as safe as a suspension one. The road feel on the Max is certainly fun, it's an awesome wheel. But I'm gonna be selling it for an equivalent suspension EUC for my street riding.

[techyiam]

24 minutes ago, dycus said:

I think no amount of experience will ever make a non-suspension EUC as safe as a suspension one. The road feel on the Max is certainly fun, it's an awesome wheel. But I'm gonna be selling it for an equivalent suspension EUC for my street riding.

+1

I still haven't own a suspension wheel yet. I wanted one since the latter part of 2021. If there weren't so many issues with the S22, I would have probably be riding one now.

Suspension wheels that are out now are decent, I just need to figure out which one to get. 

My next wheel will have a suspension, I am pretty certain of that. My experience with my 22" Abrams convinced me of that. With 22" and 20 psi, I still have to be very mindful of the road surfaces that I am riding over. Roads that I ride are just not smooth enough for me. There are already so many ways to get hurt on an electric wheel, I need to bring that number down lower. Plus suspension brings more ride comfort.

 

[Hellkitten]

I have 4 wheels. Sherman S, v11, 18L, rs19. I’ve loaned out my rs. 18L is at my moms so I have something while visiting her. I ride the SS predominantly now and the v11 when I want something more nimble. At this point I’m not going back to non suspension wheels. As others mentioned it’s much safer and allows you to concentrate on traffic, not every single road imperfection. One of our local riders broke her foot getting bounced off of her og Sherman. After a few months of recovery, she’s selling that and switching to something with suspension. There’s a reason why most other vehicles have it now…….

[mrelwood]

This thread is probably the most unanimous one I’ve seen in a while. 

[Hellkitten]

5 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

This thread is probably the most unanimous one I’ve seen in a while. 

Just like almost every rider I know. 99.9% have or are switching to suspension wheels. 

[alcatraz]

It's a great time to get into EUC riding with all these affordable starter wheels to learn on. 

I bet lots of people are holding on to their non-suspension wheels as backup but after they haven't been used for a while they'll likely be up for sale.

[Paradox]

6 minutes ago, alcatraz said:

I bet lots of people are holding on to their non-suspension wheels as backup but after they haven't been used for a while they'll likely be up for sale.

My 18XL is a good grocery getter/ errand runner now.   It used to be my long range wheel.

[Josh P]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

This thread is probably the most unanimous one I’ve seen in a while. 

Seriously I thought there’d be at least one anti-suspension purist but I guess not ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

[Cerbera]

12 minutes ago, Josh P said:

Seriously I thought there’d be at least one anti-suspension purist but I guess not ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

It's almost as prepostrous as going back to cars without suspension - bouncing is always better than shaking !

[TimucinPusat]

In this case, models with suspension are recommended as a general opinion. Do I understand correctly? If so, the inmotion v12, for example, is not a preferable model, is it? I liked it because it had a screen. 

[OldFartRides]

Welcome to the forum ! You are correct. Most people prefer suspension wheels.

Best,

[Hellkitten]

1 hour ago, TimucinPusat said:

In this case, models with suspension are recommended as a general opinion. Do I understand correctly? If so, the inmotion v12, for example, is not a preferable model, is it? I liked it because it had a screen. 

A screen is one of the least important features on a wheel. Look for something that has the specs you want. If it happens to come with a screen you like, bonus.