Going from suspension to non-suspension

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

I went back and forth between the 2, but ultimately I’d buy the Sherman S over the V13. That said the V13 is a close second and I don’t see any reason to trade it for a Sherman S.

Have you ridden the Sherman-S or the V13? Although, it was only a very short ride for me, I was totally surprised by how they rode.

1 hour ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

However I’ve owned a Sherman and Abrams and they’ve never cut out on me, despite riding well over 10,000 km. Very few issues with them.

I have about 4500 km's on my Abrams. No cutout yet. I think it is a great wheel, and adding capacitors made it noticeable better for me.

With four capacitors, the wheel has bad wobbles when braking above 50 km/h, but has the best acceleration for the way I ride it. It goes. I felt braking was top notch. However, the ride was harsh.

With no additional capacitors (completely stock), the wheel had just a hint of braking wobbles, but sluggish for my weight and stock pads. Also the ride was less harsh.

The best was with 2 capacitors. My Abrams becomes peppy for how I ride it, and there is a hint of braking wobbles, but not at all if my legs are not touching the wheel during hard braking. I use the front grab bar. And the ride seems to be the least harsh.

Now riding with 2 additional capacitors, I am close to not needing suspension. But ultimately when venturing above 50 km/h, I get worry getting bumped off by hitting potholes and bumps unexpectedly, which can happen around here. So my next wheel will have suspension too.

[InfiniteWheelie]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

Have you ridden the Sherman-S or the V13? Although, it was only a very short ride for me, I was totally surprised by how they rode.

I’ve ridden the V13 but not the Sherman S. The V13 seemed quite hard to accelerate (though I did have it in hard mode), but it was nice and slim. I’d really like to try the Sherman S sometime, but judging by the design alone I’d still choose it even without riding it.

[techyiam]

25 minutes ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

I’ve ridden the V13 but not the Sherman S. The V13 seemed quite hard to accelerate (though I did have it in hard mode), but it was nice and slim. I’d really like to try the Sherman S sometime, but judging by the design alone I’d still choose it even without riding it.

Both are good wheels and they will have their pro's and con's, and each rider has his or hers preferences and use cases.

Initially, I was turned off by the V13's sliders. But after one person showing minimal wear of the tracks after a few thousand kilometres, and how well it rides for my use case, I am now OK with it. However, I may wait for the hydraulic suspension version as my next, next wheel.

For the way I ride and how my body works with the wheel, the surprise was that if the suspension was taken out of the equation, I would prefer the way my Abrams rides over the Sherman S. That was totally not what I was expecting.

And in contrast, I thought the V13 was nicer to ride than my Abrams, and it was so refined. I was also surprised that my Abrams felt more top heavy than the V13. On a very tight track that was made of cones in a parking lot, the V13 was a blast compared to my Abrams. Sure, when I first stepped on the V13, there were no illusions that it is a big wheel. However, after a bit of ride time, I thought it rode well and was responsive in both motor and chassis. I was using stock pads, if I remember correctly.

But I did not ride over bumps.

My personal biases as to which wheels I prefer to ride are as follows:

(1) Patton

(2) S22

(3) V13

(4) Abrams

(5) V11

(6) V12

If I want to buy a playful wheel now, Patton would be it for me.

And it is turning out that I am not a Begode fan yet?

[meepmeepmayer]

Some discussion about the term "hydraulic" has ben moved here:

Thanks @dycusfor summing it up so succinctly.

[TimucinPusat]

On 8/11/2023 at 2:26 AM, techyiam said:

Generally, people worried about getting the latest version/batch because the wheels that they are seeking are still early production batches. The V11 has been out for a long time. All the issues are known and fixed. What have you seen on the forum or other chats that worries you about the V11. I don't see why you are concerned.

I rode a V11 that someone bought very recently. The V11 rode really well for city commuting. Since you don't need range nor speed, and you live one floor above ground, I suppose that narrows it down to lighter wheels.

Now the front of a V11's wheel is not shrouded by the shell, so it can be rolled up and down stairs. This is an alternative to carrying it.

My only concern with the V11 is that it may still be using the LG M50T cells. True that Inmotion has been very serious with battery safety on their wheels. Perhaps @mrelwood can shed some light on battery safety on the V11. I don't own a V11, but I do own a V12. The onboard self-diagnostics is very sensitive to battery errors or inconsistencies.

Another light suspension wheel is the S18. But for learning, you don't need a suspension wheel.

Also, I would not worry about a display on your first wheel. It is not that important.

I know this is none of my business. So skip this if you choose.

It looks like you are already distracted. EUC's can be very addictive and time consuming activity to get hooked on. If you are writing your dissertation, this could mean you are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel and not the headlight of a train. You are too close to lose focus now. You need all the concentration you can muster to write and defend it.

IMO, either the V11 or V12 is a good choice. Both are popular wheels. A smaller, lighter wheel is probably easier to learn on. But because of your stature, and many have learnt on V11's and V12's, it should be OK. Don't worry about the fact the V12 is cheaper. They ride differently. But if you are looking for a city runabout on bumpy roads, I would get the V11, and take your time to learn it and not get hurt.

Just curious, why now to pick up euc's when you have to write your thesis and defend it successfully. I would say it is a very high risk endeavour for you to take at this point in time.

I read all your thread. Thank you for this. As for "Just curious, why now to pick up euc's when you have to write your thesis and defend it successfully. I would say it is a very high risk endeavor for you to take at this point in time." You are right, yes, you are very right. But I need a vehicle that will make it easier for me to commute between home and university. Although the distance is not very far. It's only 2.2 kilometers. I bought a scooter but it was stolen a week ago. I was going to buy a scooter again and then I was recommended a wheel. So I thought I would research and buy this as soon as possible and continue my work. Thank you for your thought *.* 

[TimucinPusat]

On 8/11/2023 at 8:09 PM, eezo said:

This is exactly why I got a Commander Pro and sold my V11. I was encountering a lot of situations where my options were sidewalk, bike lane, or street, and while bike lane gave me the option to go the speed I wanted, it felt more dangerous sometimes because drivers pay less attention to vehicles outside of their lane. Having the speed headroom gives you many more options to choose the ride location that feels the most safe for a given setting. The V11 was a bit too slow for that and limited my options.

And what do you think of the V12 in that respect? 

[mrelwood]

 

On 8/11/2023 at 12:11 AM, Vanturion said:

When I briefly rode the S22 Pro I noticed a lackluster torque response from a near standstill.

The S22 weighs roughly 10kg (~40%) more than an RS, and the stock knobby tire has a noticeably larger outer diameter. These both cause the exact kind of sluggishness you observed. The programming makes a good bit of difference as well, since nowadays the hard mode is noticeably harder than when the RS was launched, which makes it trying to cancel your lean before you even get to the intended lean position. The medium mode helps with that though.

 Anyway, suspension itself has nothing to do with it. The suspension doesn’t regularly move at all during an acceleration on a smooth surface.

 

On 8/11/2023 at 12:43 AM, TimucinPusat said:

in total I do 15 km a day at most. I'm not into speed and adventure.

Nearly any wheel designed in the last 7 years would suffice for your needs. But if you want the comfort of a suspension, you have to choose between the V11 and S18. Both would serve your needs very well. All other suspension wheels are significantly heavier.

 

On 8/11/2023 at 12:43 AM, TimucinPusat said:

What battery brand does Inmotion use for instance?

V11 started with LGs in 2020, but switched to Samsungs about 6 months in due to “availability issues”. I don’t know if there have been changes after that.

On 8/11/2023 at 12:43 AM, TimucinPusat said:

the plastic part on the sides of the wheel was broken in some videos and pictures.  I didn't like it.

If you talk about the part around the bolts, it was made thicker at some point. But in my mind they could’ve gone further. The part doesn’t get any forces on it unless you pull the saddle parts to the side, so it’s a relatively insignificant part in that sense. Mine have been detached for a long time since it makes it much faster to pump up the shocks’ top chambers.

 

On 8/10/2023 at 11:28 PM, TimucinPusat said:

well, which one do you suggest which has suspansion for a beginner inmotion v11 for instant? or kingsong-s18 even I don't like the desing of both.

To me the main issues with the S18 are ergonomics and assembly issues causing the suspension to stick. The wheel is quite wide at the top, which severely limits how much I can tilt-turn at low speeds. And out of the 9 units I’ve examined, all had bad suspension sticking issues except the one that was completely overhauled. (Search for “S18 suspension overhaul”.) S18 benefit is that it’s about 2kg lighter.

The V11 has significantly more personalization options in the riding behavior, but the suspension design isn’t as advanced. It works reasonably well out of the box though. The ergonomics on the V11 are great, as it’s a narrower profile with a rounded top.

10 hours ago, TimucinPusat said:

So I thought I would research and buy this as soon as possible and continue my work.

You might not be considering that EUCs are very special vehicles in that they require a determined learning phase before they can be used for commuting on public cycleways, and especially roads. It’s quite far from get and go. If you are very limited with  time, EUCs doesn’t sound like they would be a solution to your needs. Some people might do it after a few days (safe or not), some consider requiring even a few weeks of practice before being safe in traffic.

[eezo]

13 hours ago, TimucinPusat said:

And what do you think of the V12 in that respect? 

I don't know enough about the V12 to speak competently. The Commander Pro I can feel pretty confident that if I need to hit 35mph for a stretch of road and I'm at 50% battery, I can do it. The V12? Not quite so sure about that. I have low risk tolerance though. I don't want to be pushing an overlean if I can buy something that lets me go the speeds I want with a much lower chance of overlean.

[0000]

9 hours ago, mrelwood said:

The S22 weighs roughly 10kg (~40%) more than an RS, and the stock knobby tire has a noticeably larger outer diameter. These both cause the exact kind of sluggishness you observed. The programming makes a good bit of difference as well, since nowadays the hard mode is noticeably harder than when the RS was launched, which makes it trying to cancel your lean before you even get to the intended lean position. The medium mode helps with that though.

Anyway, suspension itself has nothing to do with it. The suspension doesn’t regularly move at all during an acceleration on a smooth surface.

I don't know about those first 2 - my RS runs up to the very bottom of 20" diameter with the 80/90 K66 aftermarket tire and that wheel weight difference shouldn't be that noticeable compared to rider body weight given the comparative mass center of gravity distance to the axle/axis of rotation. I want to say the lagging response was probably mostly down to the programming, but they insisted that they had it in hard mode too (or the KingSong equivalent of such) so that confused me how it could be so different.

The suspension was very noticeably soft which seemed like a fantastic comfort cruiser, but pretty much the opposite of my regular riding experiences so it felt like that could've had some effect as well as I want to say there probably was some suspension compression in rapidly moving into a forward lean. In any case I was on it such a short period of time, it's hard to say much definitively other than I really didn't like the lag in balance response and subsequent out-of-control feeling when I tried to treat it the same way I usually do riding the RS.

Maybe the owner was even unintentionally mistaken about having it in hard mode too, for all I know it could've been the KS equivalent of soft mode. I'll admit I've never even tried soft mode on my wheel either and can't even remember what medium mode feels like for that matter so there's definitely a bias in my expectations of what a responsive wheel should feel like.

Edited August 14, 2023 by Vanturion

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, Vanturion said:

they insisted that they had it in hard mode too (or the KingSong equivalent of such) so that confused me how it could be so different.

The modes are extremely different between wheel models. I’m don’t know how the S22’s medium and soft modes behave exactly either, but for example SherMax hard feels softer than 18XL/MSX medium.

 And to be clear, harder modes make the wheel feel more sluggish. I have made a video explaining why:

https://youtu.be/d3bf_kPHeiw?si=krzb0d_TRmDO5-UZ

 Another thing came to mind: Suspension wheels naturally always have a higher pedal height. That decreases the natural torque your lean creates on the wheel.

Edited August 14, 2023 by mrelwood