Going from suspension to non-suspension

[TimucinPusat]

10 minutes ago, Hellkitten said:

A screen is one of the least important features on a wheel. Look for something that has the specs you want. If it happens to come with a screen you like, bonus. 

but isn't it nice to see instant information on the screen, just like on a scooter? 

[dycus]

All EUCs with screens, you have to look basically straight down to see it. It's not very safe or convenient to check it while riding except for a quick glance to see speed. I use an EUCWatch for all the info, some use a phone arm mount.

[TimucinPusat]

17 minutes ago, dycus said:

All EUCs with screens, you have to look basically straight down to see it. It's not very safe or convenient to check it while riding except for a quick glance to see speed. I use an EUCWatch for all the info, some use a phone arm mount.

Thank you. I just heard of this watch but didn't see at all. if there is something like this this is cool then. 

Edited August 10, 2023 by TimucinPusat

[TimucinPusat]

well, which one do you suggest which has suspansion for a beginner inmotion v11 for instant? or kingsong-s18 even I don't like the desing of both.

[Hellkitten]

17 minutes ago, TimucinPusat said:

but isn't it nice to see instant information on the screen, just like on a scooter? 

What information do you need in an instant? 

Speed- it’s nice if you can, but most people ride at the speed of the other vehicles around you. You also have beeps and tiltback to let you know you’re at the edge of a wheels capabilities. 

Battery- I have a decent mental gage and am quite accurate at knowing my levels. Chances are though you’ll be stopping on and off during a ride and you can check your app, even if you don’t have a device on your arm. (A lot of people use smart watches). 
 

Range- Same answer as above. 🤣

Nobody is going to be able to tell you what wheel is the best fit for you. That totally depends on your needs. How far do you want to go? How fast? Do you have to carry your wheel? Are you going to be riding streets or off road? What’s your weight? Does it need waterproofing? 
 

[0000]

On 7/6/2023 at 1:17 AM, Josh P said:

Seriously I thought there’d be at least one anti-suspension purist but I guess not ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Purist non-suspension trail rider reporting for duty sir.

To the OP - I've only ridden a couple suspension wheels briefly (T4, S22 Pro) and not on a proper trail so I can't give a good anecdotal comparison. I will say I basically agree with everyone in the thread, a well-executed suspension wheel is functionally superior over anything that isn't completely smooth. I notice the non-suspension big time when I anticipate the terrain incorrectly while riding, or even just getting chatter/bounced around on suddenly rocky terrain at speed.

Relevant anecdote: a few weeks back I was riding some local trails to me that are basically entirely groomed and managed to miss seeing a sharp rock in the middle of the trail. I hit it at about 20 mph and the sharp transition was enough to overload the otherwise powerful RS HT motor and immediately dump me on the ground at speed. I don't think a suspension wheel would've been immediately (torque) overloaded on this feature and cut-out like my wheel did.

Basically, the main reasons I stick with non-suspension for now is:

1. Lack of maintenance - the RS has been absolutey bulletproof and requires no maintenance other than tire pressure which is fantastic for EUC road trips

2. Form factor - I have unique storage requirements for road tripping that requires both high performance and compact wheel dimensions

3. Challenge - I find it pretty fun to get a workout on the trails, and I'm very accustomed to pedal clips and routinely tumbling off the wheel on new trails by now

One observation that might be interesting to you I haven't seen people pick up on too much -
When I briefly rode the S22 Pro I noticed a lackluster torque response from a near standstill. I tried to throw myself forward on the S22 Pro as I normally do to get going expecting the same instant torque response as the RS and it just wasn't there. I had to immediately throw myself back to keep from pitching forward. Really didn't like that out-of-control feeling. I don't know if that was a product of the soft cushiony suspension of the S22 or controller programming differences, in any case I didn't like it.

That said, if I ever go with a suspension wheel, I suspect I'll want one with firm enough suspension to give a similar feeling of instant torque/control that I currently enjoy. Hope that helps.

[0000]

1 hour ago, Hellkitten said:

A screen is one of the least important features on a wheel. Look for something that has the specs you want. If it happens to come with a screen you like, bonus. 

This is my pet peeve, but the number one most important thing a screen could do is accurately report the battery voltage numerically so the rider doesn't need smartphone, smartwatch, or whatever else bluetooth integration to accurately gauge their remaining battery capacity. Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I want to say none of them do this.

Other than that, 100% agree.

[TimucinPusat]

1 hour ago, Hellkitten said:

What information do you need in an instant? 

Speed- it’s nice if you can, but most people ride at the speed of the other vehicles around you. You also have beeps and tiltback to let you know you’re at the edge of a wheels capabilities. 

Battery- I have a decent mental gage and am quite accurate at knowing my levels. Chances are though you’ll be stopping on and off during a ride and you can check your app, even if you don’t have a device on your arm. (A lot of people use smart watches). 
 

Range- Same answer as above. 🤣

Nobody is going to be able to tell you what wheel is the best fit for you. That totally depends on your needs. How far do you want to go? How fast? Do you have to carry your wheel? Are you going to be riding streets or off road? What’s your weight? Does it need waterproofing? 
 

Well, never mind the screen, I haven't seen a device that has all the features you want, all the features you want. 

As for your other questions: 

* Height 180, weight 100, I will lose some weight and drop to 85-90 soon, age 44. 
* The purpose of use is in the city (the roads are bad, but), there are also places where I have to go, between work and home, about 2.2 km, commute 5 km. I commute about 3 times a day. so in total I do 15 km a day at most. I'm not into speed and adventure. 
* Yes, I have to carry the wheel up one floor in my hand. 
* I don't do off road driving, I don't think so. 
* I don't drive in rainy weather, I don't think. 

By the way, I think it was Kingston using LG batteries, but it was criticized under a video on youtube, saying why don't you use Samsung. What do you say about this? What battery brand does Inmotion use for instance?

Inmotion v11 seems like a suitable device to me. But I saw that the plastic part on the sides of the wheel was broken in some videos and pictures.  I didn't like it. But it is nice that the V11 has suspension. On the other hand, there is KingSong 16x. This also looks nice but there is no suspension. What do you think about these issues? 

[TimucinPusat]

35 minutes ago, Vanturion said:

Purist non-suspension trail rider reporting for duty sir.

To the OP - I've only ridden a couple suspension wheels briefly (T4, S22 Pro) and not on a proper trail so I can't give a good anecdotal comparison. I will say I basically agree with everyone in the thread, a well-executed suspension wheel is functionally superior over anything that isn't completely smooth. I notice the non-suspension big time when I anticipate the terrain incorrectly while riding, or even just getting chatter/bounced around on suddenly rocky terrain at speed.

Relevant anecdote: a few weeks back I was riding some local trails to me that are basically entirely groomed and managed to miss seeing a sharp rock in the middle of the trail. I hit it at about 20 mph and the sharp transition was enough to overload the otherwise powerful RS HT motor and immediately dump me on the ground at speed. I don't think a suspension wheel would've been immediately (torque) overloaded on this feature and cut-out like my wheel did.

Basically, the main reasons I stick with non-suspension for now is:

1. Lack of maintenance - the RS has been absolutey bulletproof and requires no maintenance other than tire pressure which is fantastic for EUC road trips

2. Form factor - I have unique storage requirements for road tripping that requires both high performance and compact wheel dimensions

3. Challenge - I find it pretty fun to get a workout on the trails, and I'm very accustomed to pedal clips and routinely tumbling off the wheel on new trails by now

One observation that might be interesting to you I haven't seen people pick up on too much -
When I briefly rode the S22 Pro I noticed a lackluster torque response from a near standstill. I tried to throw myself forward on the S22 Pro as I normally do to get going expecting the same instant torque response as the RS and it just wasn't there. I had to immediately throw myself back to keep from pitching forward. Really didn't like that out-of-control feeling. I don't know if that was a product of the soft cushiony suspension of the S22 or controller programming differences, in any case I didn't like it.

That said, if I ever go with a suspension wheel, I suspect I'll want one with firm enough suspension to give a similar feeling of instant torque/control that I currently enjoy. Hope that helps.

I read it, thanks. well you say "

That said, if I ever go with a suspension wheel, I suspect I'll want one with firm enough suspension to give a similar feeling of instant torque/control that I currently enjoy. Hope that helps." is there any of this kind of wheels among Inmotion or KingSong models? A good one with suspension? 

•  

[TimucinPusat]

28 minutes ago, Vanturion said:

This is my pet peeve, but the number one most important thing a screen could do is accurately report the battery voltage numerically so the rider doesn't need smartphone, smartwatch, or whatever else bluetooth integration to accurately gauge their remaining battery capacity. Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I want to say none of them do this.

Other than that, 100% agree.

you say "but I want to say none of them do this." I think you meen the LCD screens on wheels. well how about smartwatch or smartphone app data? are they accurate or the same as screens's data? 

[TimucinPusat]

Another thing, by the way, the Inmotion dealer here told me that the V11 is the latest version 6 and that it will not receive any improvements after that, so I can buy this v11 v6 with peace of mind. but the dealers, sellers, distributors here lie a lot, they are not reliable at all. what do you think about this?  

So is this Inmotion V11 really version 6? Is there such a thing? I haven't found this information anywhere on the internet. If it is real, is this the latest version as the distributor claims? 

[0000]

29 minutes ago, TimucinPusat said:

Inmotion or KingSong models? A good one with suspension? 

No idea. Given that you're new to the hobby, I'd say your best bet is to watch a ton of youtube videos and reviews, get an idea of how you want to ride from the videos, and follow the recommendations from the people who are riding the way you want to if you can tell they have integrity and aren't just trying to sell more wheels as a sponsor/affiliate. Nothing will beat trying them out personally before you buy, but if that isn't an option, extensive research is what I'd do.

Also, don't ever buy a "just released" or 1st generation wheel - wait until they've been on the market for at least half a year or so.

33 minutes ago, TimucinPusat said:

I think you meen the LCD screens on wheels. well how about smartwatch or smartphone app data? are they accurate or the same as screens's data? 

I wouldn't know, I was just stating a preference to not have to rely upon them for accurate battery capacity information.

31 minutes ago, TimucinPusat said:

So is this Inmotion V11 really version 6? Is there such a thing? I haven't found this information anywhere on the internet. If it is real, is this the latest version as the distributor claims? 

As I understand it, it's generally not (well) advertised how many design tweaks are made between "batches/shipments" of new wheels unless the manufacturer makes significant changes to fix obvious design flaws or make large improvements. I bet you could probably suss information about different generations/versions out by exploring some of the V13 threads in the Inmotion sub-forum.

[TimucinPusat]

28 minutes ago, Vanturion said:

No idea. Given that you're new to the hobby, I'd say your best bet is to watch a ton of youtube videos and reviews, get an idea of how you want to ride from the videos, and follow the recommendations from the people who are riding the way you want to if you can tell they have integrity and aren't just trying to sell more wheels as a sponsor/affiliate. Nothing will beat trying them out personally before you buy, but if that isn't an option, extensive research is what I'd do.

Also, don't ever buy a "just released" or 1st generation wheel - wait until they've been on the market for at least half a year or so.

I wouldn't know, I was just stating a preference to not have to rely upon them for accurate battery capacity information.

As I understand it, it's generally not (well) advertised how many design tweaks are made between "batches/shipments" of new wheels unless the manufacturer makes significant changes to fix obvious design flaws or make large improvements. I bet you could probably suss information about different generations/versions out by exploring some of the V13 threads in the Inmotion sub-forum.

For 2 days straight, I have been reading and watching about one by one. but it is very tiring and I don't have much time. I am doing a PhD, I have to write a thesis but I can't work at all. so I have to decide very quickly. ok thank you for the information. 

[techyiam]

2 hours ago, TimucinPusat said:

Another thing, by the way, the Inmotion dealer here told me that the V11 is the latest version 6 and that it will not receive any improvements after that, so I can buy this v11 v6 with peace of mind. but the dealers, sellers, distributors here lie a lot, they are not reliable at all. what do you think about this?  

So is this Inmotion V11 really version 6? Is there such a thing? I haven't found this information anywhere on the internet. If it is real, is this the latest version as the distributor claims? 

Generally, people worried about getting the latest version/batch because the wheels that they are seeking are still early production batches. The V11 has been out for a long time. All the issues are known and fixed. What have you seen on the forum or other chats that worries you about the V11. I don't see why you are concerned.

I rode a V11 that someone bought very recently. The V11 rode really well for city commuting. Since you don't need range nor speed, and you live one floor above ground, I suppose that narrows it down to lighter wheels.

Now the front of a V11's wheel is not shrouded by the shell, so it can be rolled up and down stairs. This is an alternative to carrying it.

My only concern with the V11 is that it may still be using the LG M50T cells. True that Inmotion has been very serious with battery safety on their wheels. Perhaps @mrelwood can shed some light on battery safety on the V11. I don't own a V11, but I do own a V12. The onboard self-diagnostics is very sensitive to battery errors or inconsistencies.

Another light suspension wheel is the S18. But for learning, you don't need a suspension wheel.

Also, I would not worry about a display on your first wheel. It is not that important.

1 hour ago, TimucinPusat said:

For 2 days straight, I have been reading and watching about one by one. but it is very tiring and I don't have much time. I am doing a PhD, I have to write a thesis but I can't work at all.

I know this is none of my business. So skip this if you choose.

It looks like you are already distracted. EUC's can be very addictive and time consuming activity to get hooked on. If you are writing your dissertation, this could mean you are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel and not the headlight of a train. You are too close to lose focus now. You need all the concentration you can muster to write and defend it.

IMO, either the V11 or V12 is a good choice. Both are popular wheels. A smaller, lighter wheel is probably easier to learn on. But because of your stature, and many have learnt on V11's and V12's, it should be OK. Don't worry about the fact the V12 is cheaper. They ride differently. But if you are looking for a city runabout on bumpy roads, I would get the V11, and take your time to learn it and not get hurt.

Just curious, why now to pick up euc's when you have to write your thesis and defend it successfully. I would say it is a very high risk endeavour for you to take at this point in time.

Edited August 11, 2023 by techyiam

[Punxatawneyjoe]

I bought a v13 this year and i love the wheel after learning on the v11 last year. I find the v11 was a great wheel to learn on and seems very "safe" when it comes to tilt back and other built in safety's. The wheel seems very proactive about warning you on overvoltage or exceeding wheel speed when the battery gets low. As far as the suspension is concerned, it's not the greatest but it works well enough for even off road use. The only reason i decided to get the v13 was that 34mph riding amongst the cars around here wasn't fast enough to keep up with them, it was just fast enough so they cant safely pass you without doing 50 so i felt it would be safer to go a little faster and at least keep up with them.(maybe stupid logic) I ended up keeping the wheel because i still enjoy riding it. I would say if you are in a city area, it's probably fast enough to go along with traffic. There isn't really any "maintenance" involved as long as the air shocks don't leak. I had to replace one of them in 1500 miles because i was smashing the bottoms of them on rocks all the time , which shouldn't be a problem if you are street riding. @Forwardnbak has many videos on riding the v11 and he can be very entertaining to watch. He has logged over 10k kilometers on his and still uses it now and again even though he bought the v13 also. Good luck with your decision, that is my 2 cents...

[alcatraz]

10 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

The only reason i decided to get the v13 was that 34mph riding amongst the cars around here wasn't fast enough to keep up with them, it was just fast enough so they cant safely pass you without doing 50 so i felt it would be safer to go a little faster and at least keep up with them.(maybe stupid logic)

That isn't stupid at all. Quite smart actually. 

The downside is that we get accustomed to the speeds and increase our average everywhere.

I look at it like this. It's great to have speed/power reserves in emergencies. Like merging from the left and having to sway into the left lane. BUT I also know that every second I spend at those speeds above say 20-25mph is rolling the dice on being in surgery or not. Sure, do it to get out of a risky situation, but then get off the fast road asap. Then you collect all the safety points. 

[OldFartRides]

Everyone knows peed skills. Err, skeed pills….wait ! Speed Kills ! 

[techyiam]

3 hours ago, OldFartRides said:

Everyone knows peed skills. Err, skeed pills….wait ! Speed Kills ! 

Especially if you were in traffic with speeding cars and trucks. The odds of getting seriously hurt or killed is much higher riding a motorcycle than driving a car for the average driver. But for electric wheel riders, we have an advantage. We can also ride on bike paths when we can.

So it is more like high impact tha kills or maims.

Edited August 11, 2023 by techyiam

[InfiniteWheelie]

My first wheel was a Sherman, then I upgraded to an Abrams. I'm definitely getting a suspension wheel next time. I'm done getting my bones rattled by shitty roads, I'm tired of it.

I was learning towards the V13 for it's power, size, and safety. After seeing the wheel disassembled I changed my mind. It's design is way too complicated and hard to service, with endless bolts everywhere. Plus the suspension sucks.

Right now the Sherman S is the best wheel despite it's own weaknesses and design flaws. I'm probably going to wait until either an updated Sherman S model, or perhaps they'll even make an Abrams S. Either way fork suspension is just way superior so that's what I'll be buying in some form.

Edited August 11, 2023 by InfiniteWheelie

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

I was learning towards the V13 for it's power, size, and safety. After seeing the wheel disassembled I changed my mind. It's design is way too complicated and hard to service, with endless bolts everywhere. Plus the suspension sucks.

Right now the Sherman S is the best wheel despite it's own weaknesses and design flaws. I'm probably going to wait until either an updated Sherman S model, or perhaps they'll even make an Abrams S. Either way fork suspension is just way superior so that's what I'll be buying in some form.

Upon more reflection, I may get a V13 if I don't want to wait, or a V13 with hydraulic suspension and swappable battery if I am willing to wait.

But then the other route is to get a Patton or a newer model of the Sherman S.

I would definitely be interested in an Abrams with hydraulic suspension.

But then the Adventure is coming out. If this wheel turns out to be really good, that could be a contender too.

[2disbetter]

2 hours ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

Right now the Sherman S is the best wheel despite it's own weaknesses and design flaws

Is the Sherman S safer than the V13? I really think the way the Sherman S looks is dynamite. The Patton as well. 

Does the Sherman S have cell balancing? doubled mosfets, more caps, etc? 

With how good everyone says the Sherman S suspension is, I have been thinking about getting one as well. 

I am very happy with the V13 though, and looking for a real reason to get a different wheel, seeing as how it is so capable. 

[techyiam]

3 minutes ago, 2disbetter said:

I am very happy with the V13 though, and looking for a real reason to get a different wheel, seeing as how it is so capable. 

I would not get a Sherman S if you already have a V13 and like it.

If you would like to get another wheel, I would wait for the next generation of wheels, either from Leaper Kim or Inmotion with hydraulic suspension.

IMO, the V13 is a very nice wheel to ride. Unless you need 3600 Wh range, why would you get a Sherman S when you already like riding the V13. I mean, the Sherman S suspension is cushy, but the V13 rides very well too.

I think you are experiencing the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence syndrome. 

[eezo]

16 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

The only reason i decided to get the v13 was that 34mph riding amongst the cars around here wasn't fast enough to keep up with them, it was just fast enough so they cant safely pass you without doing 50 so i felt it would be safer to go a little faster and at least keep up with them.

This is exactly why I got a Commander Pro and sold my V11. I was encountering a lot of situations where my options were sidewalk, bike lane, or street, and while bike lane gave me the option to go the speed I wanted, it felt more dangerous sometimes because drivers pay less attention to vehicles outside of their lane. Having the speed headroom gives you many more options to choose the ride location that feels the most safe for a given setting. The V11 was a bit too slow for that and limited my options.

[techyiam]

2 hours ago, eezo said:

Having the speed headroom gives you many more options to choose the ride location that feels the most safe for a given setting.

I have encountered one scenario where this is completely true.

There is one busy street where an unprotected bike lane splits between the thru lanes and right-turning lane. Car and trucks don't look for cyclists nor pev's to change into the right-turning lane. It is a very dangerous stretch for those who use the bike lane. However, it is much safer if an euc rider occupy a position in the car lane and go with the car traffic so no cars or trucks and cut into you. But to do that you need sufficient speed and braking performance.

[InfiniteWheelie]

14 hours ago, 2disbetter said:

Is the Sherman S safer than the V13? I really think the way the Sherman S looks is dynamite. The Patton as well. 

Does the Sherman S have cell balancing? doubled mosfets, more caps, etc? 

With how good everyone says the Sherman S suspension is, I have been thinking about getting one as well. 

I am very happy with the V13 though, and looking for a real reason to get a different wheel, seeing as how it is so capable. 

The V13 is faster and safer, and no the Sherman S doesn’t have those features. My big hang up with the V13 is the suspension, and how complex and difficult the wheel is to disassemble/reassemble.

However I’ve owned a Sherman and Abrams and they’ve never cut out on me, despite riding well over 10,000 km. Very few issues with them.

I went back and forth between the 2, but ultimately I’d buy the Sherman S over the V13. That said the V13 is a close second and I don’t see any reason to trade it for a Sherman S.

Edited August 11, 2023 by InfiniteWheelie