Inmotion V14 Adventure: a new trail wheel from Inmotion

[techyiam]

12 minutes ago, Ro.man said:

Here is an interesting viewpoint on Inmotion's swappable batteries.

I disagree with Wheel Good Time opinion piece, that is, Inmotion is somehow evil, and is undermining its customers by offering swappable batteries. Inmotion is actually doing the opposite.

It is actually a great thing that Inmotion has put in the technology to deal with battery packs that have different voltages when they are connected together in parallel. And a practical way to reduce price of entry for new wheels for some of its customers whose situations allow them buy battery less Inmotion wheel. Should a customer need a wheel for off-road, and a wheel for on-road cruising, being able to share a single set of battery packs would be nice.

I think Wheel Good Time is making a big assumption that Inmotion customers will be locked in. If a person like Inmotion wheels, then the swappable battery feature can save this person some money should he choose the battery-pack-less option. Otherwise, it is not that big a deal.

If I buy an Inmotion wheel with swappable battery packs, the wheel I buy next after that may not be an Inmotion because a competitor's wheel may be better. Yes, it is certain a factor in the equation, but it isn't the only factor that will affect my buying decision.

Moreover, battery cell technology advances are very fluid. Samsung 50S may enter scene soon for example. (This may not be trivial to some. The 50S is both a high discharge and high capacity cell.) Ditto with BMS's. With swappable battery packs, changes may come slower. So this potentially could be a negative.

Electric wheel development is in it very early stages. Many areas in a wheel can change rapidly. Also, I can see swappable battery packs can influence a buying decision maybe for the first couple of years of their life.

[mrelwood]

5 hours ago, Ro.man said:

Here is an interesting viewpoint on Inmotion's swappable batteries.

I also have several issues with that video. First of all… Walled garden, hard to leave. How does that not apply to Android OS as well? I recently helped my parents switch from Android to iPhone. Wheel Good Time thinks it was somehow easy…?? Or to switch to a Windows phone. Whether they still exist, I don’t know, but I doubt it is/was any easier. The thing that makes it hard to leave Apple is the OSs and the user experience that others simply aren’t able to offer. Inmotion is a bit alike in that regard. At least to me.

And onto EUCs. If Inmotion offers a feature that others don’t, how’s that evil, unfair, or locking in? Other than to make the product more attractive than others. Based on the video, ALL current manufacturers should be considered evil, because they don’t offer swappable batteries with other manufacturers either. Or even altogether.

Hands up if you can imagine Begode cooperating with Inmotion to use their battery packs on future Begode wheels…  Either they will disregard the option completely, or they will invent their own system. Which will be changed for each new wheel though…

But the battery rental thing, I really don’t think it will catch on. The customer base is simply not nearly large enough for it to be beneficial for any company to store, maintain, and offer them for rent.

4 hours ago, techyiam said:

If I buy an Inmotion wheel with swappable battery packs, the wheel I buy next after that may not be an Inmotion because a competitor's wheel may be better.

Exactly.

Edited September 16, 2023 by mrelwood

[Ro.man]

7 hours ago, techyiam said:

Moreover, battery cell technology advances are very fluid. Samsung 50S may enter scene soon for example. (This may not be trivial to some. The 50S is both a high discharge and high capacity cell.) Ditto with BMS's. With swappable battery packs, changes may come slower. So this potentially could be a negative.

That shouldn't be a problem since 50S, 50E and 50GB all share the same size and voltage. BMS doesn't care which cells you use as long as voltage is the same.

[techyiam]

11 minutes ago, Ro.man said:

That shouldn't be a problem since 50S, 50E and 50GB all share the same size and voltage. BMS doesn't care which cells you use as long as voltage is the same.

Perhaps, but I was thinking more about advancement in the BMS's themselves. 

[Paul g]

3 hours ago, Ro.man said:

That shouldn't be a problem since 50S, 50E and 50GB all share the same size and voltage. BMS doesn't care which cells you use as long as voltage is the same.

      Good point. And it might be possible to update the BMS firmware in case the voltage would be different, but I don’t know if that’s the case with the V14.

[Unventor]

4 hours ago, Ro.man said:

That shouldn't be a problem since 50S, 50E and 50GB all share the same size and voltage. BMS doesn't care which cells you use as long as voltage is the same.

There is more that voltage to consider. 

The way to you can put a load or draw out current and recharge it as you break is also something that can change from wheel to wheel. So to have a battery pack that can handle this and a bms that than keep this within the cell max load. 

So what at first seem simple might not be as simple to design a pack that works now and in the future with future requirements in mind. 

So for Inmotion to go in this direction is a huge development step as I see it. Yet another differentiator to other brands. 

[bpong]

About the "dark truth" video on swappable batteries... everyone is entitled to their opinion.  No matter how misaligned it may be.  I probably will end up getting a V14 and swappable batteries is one of the reasons for the purchase.

Wheel good time and Dark truth is a farce ... its a blatant attempt at fear mongering with limited understanding of marketing terms and buzz words.  its no different than the crap that the QAnon were feeding their blind followers... pizza any body ?!?!?

its just an electric unicycle,  geezzzzz, ... and its damn fun owning and riding one.  its hard enough wading thru all the new innovations and specs of the new models coming out recently - why add more confusion to our fav pastime ?  standardized battery formats ?

AAA, AA, C, D, 14500, 18650, 21700, lithium, NiMH, LiFePO4, and the venerable Alkaline battery (Duracell), etc,... all globally available,  all over the world.  and no conspiracy associated with them.

Edited September 17, 2023 by bpong
reduce my use of profanity...

[Ro.man]

6 hours ago, Unventor said:

There is more that voltage to consider. 

The way to you can put a load or draw out current and recharge it as you break is also something that can change from wheel to wheel. So to have a battery pack that can handle this and a bms that than keep this within the cell max load. 

You are not wrong. Most BMS limit peak current that can be drawn from the battery as well as peak charging current. This should be tunable in smart BMS firmware, but boards that can handle higher current cost more. Say you have 4p 50E battery pack. Max battery current should be 10A x 4 = 40A. When building a pack with 50S, that can be increased to 25A x 4 = 100A

[M1thr4ndr]

If the swappable battery packs are connected in parllel.. how do they wire the balance leads?

[Robse]

On 9/16/2023 at 5:12 AM, Ro.man said:

Here is an interesting viewpoint on Inmotion's swappable batteries. 

As for myself I would still buy new EUC with batteries. This way I will have 2 functioning wheels to choose every day instead of just one, but I suppose many people will still want to save money by buying new EUC without batteries and taking them from an older EUC.

It would be really cool if Inmotion starts selling their batteries, controllers and motors to other manufacturers and like in the bicycle or ebike world new smaller brands can emerge taking advantage of proven technology, creating their own vision of the best EUC, without having to make everything from scratch.

haha  🫣🙄😂 (quote from the video): "and then you can rent those batteries wherever your destination is"

thats not going to happen the next 10 years, or in fact never. But its funny😂

[Unventor]

3 hours ago, Robse said:

haha  🫣🙄😂 (quote from the video): "and then you can rent those batteries wherever your destination is"

thats not going to happen the next 10 years, or in fact never. But its funny😂

Another thing this is not going to happen as 170+ passagerer airlines signed an agreement to ban all pve on passagerer planes with out without battery pack matters not. My guess is to avoid discussions at checking and the risk of battery not being removed and it being missed at checking. 

Yes you can ship by freight planes but that will cost a fair bit of money too. 

Now one thing I can see this being good for is if you have to ship off a battery pack for service og that you could ship only the wheel as battery pack are both adding weight and class it as high risk freight. 

It doesn't solve everything but it do add more flexibility to some situations. And should you have a cell problem then it is possible to disconnect that pack and still ride because the wheel is designer to cope with this. Might not be able to push as aggressive. Kinda like you have limited speed/range as a spare tire to a car to save space. 

That said you could play with the thought of having half battery packs to make for factor slimmer and lighter. 

Like I said before I view this as innovation and yes it will come at a cost yet this is okey in my view. 

[Unventor]

7 hours ago, M1thr4ndr said:

If the swappable battery packs are connected in parllel.. how do they wire the balance leads?

I have not seen it myself yet. But as I understand the hint given long time back when I had deeper contact with Inmotion my guess would be it is how battery packs are build and their bms together with the raptor board and firmware. 

It is not just two wires going into same connector. 

[mrelwood]

8 hours ago, M1thr4ndr said:

If the swappable battery packs are connected in parllel.. how do they wire the balance leads?

There’s a separate electronic circuit that controls the battery connections through mosfets similar to what we have on the motor controller output. Most probably the packs with a lower voltage just will not be used until the others get down to it’s voltage.

 The V11 already has something similar, although while the packs aren’t hardwired either, it’s not designed to be ridden with packs of largely different voltage and will lock up the wheel if the difference is too big.

Edited September 17, 2023 by mrelwood

[OldFartRides]

Re: Dark Truth vid.

Could not listen…annoying canned muzak. Looks like a nice ecosystem around his house. Maybe a walled garden too !

[Impoy47]

On 9/16/2023 at 10:37 AM, bpong said:

AAA, AA, C, D, 14500, 18650, 21700, lithium, NiMH, LiFePO4, and the venerable Alkaline battery (Duracell), etc,... all globally available,  all over the world.  and no conspiracy associated with them.

Imagine the future, solid state batteries. We can get more range, and less weight than the V13 or V14? And speed, we Can get more speed but we can limit that. It's scary going 56mph+ already..  😳 

[bpong]

22 minutes ago, Impoy47 said:

Imagine the future, solid state batteries. We can get more range, and less weight than the V13 or V14? And speed, we Can get more speed but we can limit that. It's scary going 56mph+ already..  😳 

the way we have to pose our body,  leaning forward to go forward,  without holding on to anything, is in itself an act of faith.  most of the time,  we experience a problem-free ride.  its the fraction of a percent that causes all the injuries.  whether its 10mph or 60mph,  a fall forwards is still a surprise that we are mostly not ready for.  as for the future,  eucs may be replaced with individual hover drone-like flying craft.  so no more face plants;  just a plain every day run of the mill aircraft crash from 10ft or 300+ft in the air...

[Ro.man]

On 9/17/2023 at 2:49 PM, Robse said:

haha  🫣🙄😂 (quote from the video): "and then you can rent those batteries wherever your destination is"

thats not going to happen the next 10 years, or in fact never. But its funny😂

People tend to overestimate changes that could happen in 1 year and underestimate changes that could happen in 10 years. 
In my opinion, in the next 10 years if our civilization is not destroyed in nuclear war, not conquered by AI robots and not invaded by aliens, that service could emerge in some cities...

Edited September 18, 2023 by Ro.man

[bpong]

regarding the wheel good times youtube channel,  i dont really know if its useful to dignify its existence by viewing its varied content.  what turns me off about this channel is its video that was posted to this topic.  i dont appreciate the con-man approach to spreading mis-information and it makes me wonder whether or not its youtube channel has any merit at all.  for myself,  its one big AVOID, ...  i have enough cynicism watching the hsiang and wrongway video reviews... its all about getting that sales commission in the end, ...

[Punxatawneyjoe]

21 minutes ago, bpong said:

i dont appreciate the con-man approach to spreading mis-information

It's just a different point of view. It shouldn't bother you that others look at things differently. You shouldn't be threatened by it either. I think many will view it and conclude something different about Inmotions intended purpose as many have in this tread. Although it's important to get the "correct" information, It's human nature to skew the truth a bit in order to validate an individuals intended result. That's why it is paramount for people to not just take everything they see and hear at face value. You should always "do your own homework" as the saying goes. It's healthy to consider other views before making a decision on virtually anything.

[bpong]

39 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

It's just a different point of view. It shouldn't bother you that others look at things differently. You shouldn't be threatened by it either. I think many will view it and conclude something different about Inmotions intended purpose as many have in this tread. Although it's important to get the "correct" information, It's human nature to skew the truth a bit in order to validate an individuals intended result. That's why it is paramount for people to not just take everything they see and hear at face value. You should always "do your own homework" as the saying goes. It's healthy to consider other views before making a decision on virtually anything.

you're right...i cant go against that considering i did mention the same in another prev reply,... i'd be a hypocrite otherwise...

[stizl]

9 hours ago, bpong said:

regarding the wheel good times youtube channel,  i dont really know if its useful to dignify its existence by viewing its varied content.  what turns me off about this channel is its video that was posted to this topic.

That channel seems very pro-Begode to me and less likely to give other brands as much benefit of the doubt. In this case, since the Extreme is out the Adventure doesn’t stand a chance there. 

[Ro.man]

Just look on what this thing is capable of with right skills

[Rawnei]

Just now, Ro.man said:

Just look on what this thing is capable of with right skills

It's a nice wheel for sure but this is the rider not the wheel.

[Ro.man]

1 hour ago, Rawnei said:

It's a nice wheel for sure but this is the rider not the wheel.

It would be cool to see how he rides the same trail on other wheels

[meepmeepmayer]

This isn't exactly new, but it deserves being stated: ewheels sells the Adventure for $3300, and on EUCSale it's 3400€. That seems to be the regular price in $ or €.