Inmotion V14 Adventure: a new trail wheel from Inmotion

[Hellkitten]

 

[techyiam]

@Hellkitten

I have been watch Ride One review videos, and it seemed like police enforcement is lax?

Seb and his crew ride on main roads and split lanes left and right casually, as if it is OK to do so.

Are many euc riders in T.O. ride on main roads like it was on a small displacement motorcycle?

If this is the case, I can why there is a market for big fast wheels in Canada and the US.

[Hellkitten]

@techyiam there’s a wide diversity of riders in Toronto……..

[CrabChampion]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

@Hellkitten

I have been watch Ride One review videos, and it seemed like police enforcement is lax?

Seb and his crew ride on main roads and split lanes left and right casually, as if it is OK to do so.

Are many euc riders in T.O. ride on main roads like it was on a small displacement motorcycle?

If this is the case, I can why there is a market for big fast wheels in Canada and the US.

No not all riders here ride like that. Actually it's only a small minority of riders that weave in and out of traffic, run reds, split lanes. 

Alot of the community here like to stick to bike lanes, empty suburb roads, slower chill pace. Riding much more respectfully and "EUC image friendly"

[Jason McNeil]

This is some insightful data on the efficiency curve of the V14's motor, with the highest %s at the fastest rotational speeds.  We really need to find a lab in Shenzhen to do systematic testing for all the current Wheels at both the motor & machine level... 

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Jason McNeil said:

This is some insightful data on the efficiency curve of the V14's motor, with the highest %s at the fastest rotational speeds.  We really need to find a lab in Shenzhen to do systematic testing for all the current Wheels at both the motor & machine level... 

The curves also showed that climbing a 45 degrees slope is less efficient than climbing a 25 degrees slope.

Most of my riding is well below 25 degrees slope, so it is efficient enough.

It seems like it is most efficient when climbing a shallow incline, at about half motor maximum speed or higher.

 

[UniVehje]

20 minutes ago, techyiam said:

The curves also showed that climbing a 45 degrees slope is less efficient than climbing a 25 degrees slope.

Most of my riding is well below 25 degrees slope, so it is efficient enough.

25 degrees is already very steep. 45 degrees you can find under bridges and some rare off-road place where the idea is to just show off. 

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, UniVehje said:

25 degrees is already very steep. 45 degrees you can find under bridges and some rare off-road place where the idea is to just show off. 

Exactly.

I ride exclusively on streets, so these graphs aren't going to help me in significant ways.

[Unventor]

13 hours ago, techyiam said:

@Hellkitten

I have been watch Ride One review videos, and it seemed like police enforcement is lax?

Seb and his crew ride on main roads and split lanes left and right casually, as if it is OK to do so.

Are many euc riders in T.O. ride on main roads like it was on a small displacement motorcycle?

If this is the case, I can why there is a market for big fast wheels in Canada and the US.

Riding like this will get you in unwanted attention from the police in my area. It also means I am not watching anymore material from the posting channel. I am not going to assist youtuber with this ride style.

With suggested EU law for pve/EUC these riders will get us in trouble here in EU.

[eezo]

14 hours ago, techyiam said:

@Hellkitten

I have been watch Ride One review videos, and it seemed like police enforcement is lax?

Seb and his crew ride on main roads and split lanes left and right casually, as if it is OK to do so.

Are many euc riders in T.O. ride on main roads like it was on a small displacement motorcycle?

If this is the case, I can why there is a market for big fast wheels in Canada and the US.

Even without things like splitting lanes, etc, the road infrastructure in the US/Canada is just different and in many places necessitates larger/faster wheels for safety. Europeans (not all, but many) often don't realize just how big geographically the US is and how poor the public transit system is for most of us. The US is a lot of suburban sprawl with high speed connecting roads over long distances. In order for me to get anywhere worthwhile, I have to be riding main roads with 30-40mph (48-60kmh) speed limits. Bike lanes don't exist on a lot of these roads, so it's either sidewalk or road. If I'm needing to keep pace with traffic at those speeds, I need a wheel capable of 50mph in order to do it safely.

The way people ride big/fast wheels on those roads doesn't have to be reckless and/or violating all the traffic laws. But in the US/Canada, outside of an urban city core, 50mph wheels (even if not ridden at 50mph) are almost a necessity in order to be able to safely traverse the road system.

Europe and the cities in Europe have existed for a thousand years or more before the invention of cars. Even the major US cities were only around for ~100 years before cars dominated transport. Most of the suburban US was built after cars. Fundamentally, the living centers of the US/Canada were built around high speed automobiles, and that affects the kinds of PEV's we need.

Edited January 3 by eezo

[techyiam]

10 minutes ago, eezo said:

Fundamentally, the living centers of the US/Canada were built around high speed automobiles, and that affects the kinds of PEV's we need.

What is different also is that in conjunction, the police enforcement in the US seem to be more lienient than other parts of the world maybe. 

[Unventor]

1 hour ago, eezo said:

Even without things like splitting lanes, etc, the road infrastructure in the US/Canada is just different and in many places necessitates larger/faster wheels for safety. Europeans (not all, but many) often don't realize just how big geographically the US is and how poor the public transit system is for most of us. The US is a lot of suburban sprawl with high speed connecting roads over long distances. In order for me to get anywhere worthwhile, I have to be riding main roads with 30-40mph (48-60kmh) speed limits. Bike lanes don't exist on a lot of these roads, so it's either sidewalk or road. If I'm needing to keep pace with traffic at those speeds, I need a wheel capable of 50mph in order to do it safely.

The way people ride big/fast wheels on those roads doesn't have to be reckless and/or violating all the traffic laws. But in the US/Canada, outside of an urban city core, 50mph wheels (even if not ridden at 50mph) are almost a necessity in order to be able to safely traverse the road system.

Europe and the cities in Europe have existed for a thousand years or more before the invention of cars. Even the major US cities were only around for ~100 years before cars dominated transport. Most of the suburban US was built after cars. Fundamentally, the living centers of the US/Canada were built around high speed automobiles, and that affects the kinds of PEV's we need.

That is one view. I doubt anyone in road safety will say weaving in and out in traffic should be praised and adopted by everyone. Also considering riding at 50mph on an EUC is safe in public traffic either. The big difference here is an EUC need to combat balance a moped or mc doesn't. This is however not unique to the V14. But my point from earlier is still I do not approve of youtubers try to look cool with reckless riding behaviour. That goes on the V14 as on any EUC and I choose to word this clearly. 

[Punxatawneyjoe]

1 hour ago, Unventor said:

Also considering riding at 50mph on an EUC is safe in public traffic either.

If the traffic averages 50/55mph on most back roads and 75-85mph on most highways then in order to traverse most US suburban roads your "safest" bet is to stay with traffic. If you are going slower than the traffics usual speed then cars start to pile up behind you and drivers get very inpatient. The risk goes up exponentially as they attempt to pass you at speeds higher than average as well as pulling risky maneuvers with oncoming traffic. This city riding in and out of cars and through red lights and cutting people off in crosswalks is just plain ignorant and stupid. But as @eezo was trying to explain is that people in the US get crazy if you are holding them up and most high speed back roads don't have sidewalks and not enough room for 2 trucks and an EUC side by side so getting passed is far more dangerous IMO than just staying with traffic.

[Forwardnbak]

Starting to get a little of that new euc buzz in my tummy.
I have tracking details now, maybe week or prob 2. 

[bpong]

On 1/3/2024 at 4:53 PM, eezo said:

Even without things like splitting lanes, etc, the road infrastructure in the US/Canada is just different and in many places necessitates larger/faster wheels for safety. Europeans (not all, but many) often don't realize just how big geographically the US is and how poor the public transit system is for most of us. The US is a lot of suburban sprawl with high speed connecting roads over long distances. In order for me to get anywhere worthwhile, I have to be riding main roads with 30-40mph (48-60kmh) speed limits. Bike lanes don't exist on a lot of these roads, so it's either sidewalk or road. If I'm needing to keep pace with traffic at those speeds, I need a wheel capable of 50mph in order to do it safely.

The way people ride big/fast wheels on those roads doesn't have to be reckless and/or violating all the traffic laws. But in the US/Canada, outside of an urban city core, 50mph wheels (even if not ridden at 50mph) are almost a necessity in order to be able to safely traverse the road system.

Europe and the cities in Europe have existed for a thousand years or more before the invention of cars. Even the major US cities were only around for ~100 years before cars dominated transport. Most of the suburban US was built after cars. Fundamentally, the living centers of the US/Canada were built around high speed automobiles, and that affects the kinds of PEV's we need.

where they rode the wheels on this massive rock/sculpture is where i work.  the building and grounds are now managed by George Brown College.  if i had caught them riding their eucs during the daytime,  in that manner along the back of the building beside the water,  i wouldn't hesitate to first ask them to leave.  if that didnt work,  i would contact building security who in turn would contact the police.  its the Corus Quay building,  and beside us is Sugar Beach (which we thoughfully call "needle beach".  use your imagination... there is alot of pedestrian traffic during the day,  and into the evening.  the restaurant in the rear of the building has their own outdoor patio which is fenced off and not used during these winter months.  if they do their 'shit' during the non peak hours, it will be fine i believe... they have ridden in this area before and up and down queens quay and yee haa...

i understand eezo,  what you are saying about the way people ride.  but rideone demo riders are riding recklessly,  and in city traffic.  in some parts of the V14 video, one rider temporarily rides off center in the oncoming traffic lane, endangering themselves.  in another part of the video,  the demo rider zooms by pedestrian foot traffic on the bike way that is near the cherry st. bridge.  all this reflects badly on our euc community.  im sure yes, blah blah blah we are all wanna be rebels, wanna be vigilantes,  paper tigers, paper lions,  etc,... riding our eucs zooming around this way and that... until some rider hurts a bystander or damages private property.  then the WAY euc riders ride their wheels becomes a liability to our pev community.

and to say that we need faster eucs because of the design of the roads ? really ? the roads were designed for vehicular traffic.  they were not designed for reckless euc riders.  perhaps what you are really hinting at is that traffic laws should accommodate other users of the roads aside from autos and tractor-trailers... as for mass transit,  the toronto subway systems traverses more of the city now than an euc rider could ever ride in a days worth or riding.  and its moving thousands of passengers.

thumbs up for their video review on the CU of the V14 euc and partial teardown,  that was a great part of the video.  but again,  the reckless riding,  only serves to portray euc riders as idiots on their electric toys.  for once, it would be great to see eucs in a better light,  other than the "street fuckery" that is so commonly displayed in various euc review videos.

[eezo]

9 hours ago, bpong said:

where they rode the wheels on this massive rock/sculpture is where i work.  the building and grounds are now managed by George Brown College.  if i had caught them riding their eucs during the daytime,  in that manner along the back of the building beside the water,  i wouldn't hesitate to first ask them to leave.  if that didnt work,  i would contact building security who in turn would contact the police.  its the Corus Quay building,  and beside us is Sugar Beach (which we thoughfully call "needle beach".  use your imagination... there is alot of pedestrian traffic during the day,  and into the evening.  the restaurant in the rear of the building has their own outdoor patio which is fenced off and not used during these winter months.  if they do their 'shit' during the non peak hours, it will be fine i believe... they have ridden in this area before and up and down queens quay and yee haa...

i understand eezo,  what you are saying about the way people ride.  but rideone demo riders are riding recklessly,  and in city traffic.  in some parts of the V14 video, one rider temporarily rides off center in the oncoming traffic lane, endangering themselves.  in another part of the video,  the demo rider zooms by pedestrian foot traffic on the bike way that is near the cherry st. bridge.  all this reflects badly on our euc community.  im sure yes, blah blah blah we are all wanna be rebels, wanna be vigilantes,  paper tigers, paper lions,  etc,... riding our eucs zooming around this way and that... until some rider hurts a bystander or damages private property.  then the WAY euc riders ride their wheels becomes a liability to our pev community.

and to say that we need faster eucs because of the design of the roads ? really ? the roads were designed for vehicular traffic.  they were not designed for reckless euc riders.  perhaps what you are really hinting at is that traffic laws should accommodate other users of the roads aside from autos and tractor-trailers... as for mass transit,  the toronto subway systems traverses more of the city now than an euc rider could ever ride in a days worth or riding.  and its moving thousands of passengers.

thumbs up for their video review on the CU of the V14 euc and partial teardown,  that was a great part of the video.  but again,  the reckless riding,  only serves to portray euc riders as idiots on their electric toys.  for once, it would be great to see eucs in a better light,  other than the "street fuckery" that is so commonly displayed in various euc review videos.

None of what you say is incompatible with anything I said. Everything you said is correct. And also, it's incredibly shortsighted to think that your experience and whether or not you need a high speed wheel is what everyone across the world needs.

[bpong]

52 minutes ago, eezo said:

... And also, it's incredibly shortsighted to think that your experience and whether or not you need a high speed wheel is what everyone across the world needs.

eezo,  thnx for your reply.  i dont need a high speed wheel, you are correct about that.  but i dont think im being short sighted when im concerned about the future of how euc riders are perceived as... and what the world needs now,  has nothing to do with eucs to begin with...

[Paul g]

     All of you have all the reasons to be mad on this kind of behaviour. The bad behaviour has nothing to do with the performance of the wheel, one can be a c*nt even on an mten, but the bad behaviour definitely reflects bad on us as a community and we must be clear with these people about that. I’ll kick them where it hurts on the yt and I advise you to also take action against them.

   Most of all we as riders should show more than just respect for the others traffic users as we are not quite legal in many parts of the world. This sport attracts a lot of good people but on the other hand a lot of irresponsible ones. The irresponsible ones seem determined to ruining it for all if we don’t rain in on them.

    

[Unventor]

I might be able to put it very simple. If we want a better world all together we all have to be much better to show respect for others around us. When in the public certain rules apply for everyone to feel safe in that shared space.

As an example a pedestrian has no business on a highway. Same as a truck do not fit in a bicycle lane. To me that is very simple. So the question here is how fast is fast enough for an EUC, for anyone can reasonable operate it, keep in mind it is motorized and not in need to hold a license to ride it (in most places).

Due to this in my most humble view in public traffic an EUC shouldn't operate as a MC, moped like is what I view as reasonable and relative safe. Should you ride much faster in car lanes then I seriously doubt rear traffic will keep the safety distance to counter if an EUC cuts out or loose balance for whatever reason. So the case to keep UK with cars isn't a seriously point of argument in my eyes. So to ride at car speeds outside city areas I don't see an EUC as the right option. It is down what is needed to maintain self balance. A MC is much better suited in this case.

Yes there are places you can go faster, as in a closes track for EUC race riders. But this is not public traffic, and you could call this a sport. In public roads this is not a sport but a lifestyle. So question is looking in my first part, what kind of lifestyle do you as a rider choose, and how would like other to treat you. Similar to a F1 car or indy500 are not on public roads or public traffic.

So if you have a region that is unregulated, my point is misbehaving riders that hold their fun factor above anything else on other safety do not last in the long run, so the fun will stop very fast. It will also impact sales very soon as in EU new laws are in place. If EUC makers can't sell their products here anymore due to top speed limitations it means less revenue to manufactors and higher development cost pr unit sold in other markets.

So against what we ask of manufactors as a community and lifestyle riders, will impact us all sooner or later. 

I am looking at the v14 to buy it, not because of it's top speed but because of the design (language) I think it is a huge step in right direction and fron a service point of view a more attractive option vs the v11y.

Now since the 23rd of December new law here in Sweden state you need a mandatory traffic insurance to ride in public  This open up the option now for insurance that was impossible to get before. Here it is in general listed as 3 different types. I chose the expensive type equivalent to 2 pints of good beer at the pub pr month. Why? Ease of mind and in case a bad accident or situation happens it minimize the financial impact on me. Same reason I choose to ride in my klim A3 badland MC suit and a very expensive carbon klim helmet. It is to preserve my EUC lifestyle as to me it is also help my health due to medical diagnosis (different rheumatic problems) that is why I started to ride in the first place.

This is not a post to troll people here. But it is a call out to look in the mirror and think how you as a rider might be view from the outside. This is put very nicely in this video by @mrelwood

I wish I could have made similar great video. Just consider people seeing this vs the weaving in and out of leaves youtuber, from an outside perspective who look more cool, and this is what I think we should remind any rider about.

Shared public spaces vs confined race tracks.

[jacobjj]

Friends just bought v14's and they won't go over 50km/h? They can't figure out what is limiting, any ideas?

[Sergey Sh.]

1 hour ago, jacobjj said:

Friends just bought v14's and they won't go over 50km/h? They can't figure out what is limiting, any ideas?

Previous models had an direct correlation between the selected value of the "Pedal Hardness" and the actual speed limit. Starting from a certain level, when the "Pedal Hardness" decreases, the maximum speed is cut. For V12HS, in comfort mode, this level is 57%, at this value the maximum speed is still 70 km/h (full charged), in off-road mode, the "Pedal Hardness" limit without reducing the maximum speed is 76%.
And of course, the actual speed limit depends on the amount of battery charge.

[on one]

Pedal hardness increases my speed limit on my Ninebot, so that certainly stands to reason, that there is a correlation. Inmotion might be the opposite. Oh, wait you said pedal softness decreases speed limit, doh!

Edited January 7 by iwantmymtv
one more thing

[CrabChampion]

On 1/5/2024 at 12:45 AM, bpong said:

and to say that we need faster eucs because of the design of the roads ? really ? the roads were designed for vehicular traffic.  they were not designed for reckless euc riders.  perhaps what you are really hinting at is that traffic laws should accommodate other users of the roads aside from autos and tractor-trailers... as for mass transit,  the toronto subway systems traverses more of the city now than an euc rider could ever ride in a days worth or riding.  and its moving thousands of passengers.

I am also local to the Toronto area, I do not condone the behavior and ride style of the RideOne riders. Many in our community share the same sentiment. I however, love the speed and power that my EX30 provides and ride in a respectful manner. In some parts of the outer city, you simply need a faster wheel to keep up with traffic to be safer. I truly do believe in that. The power of these faster wheels allows you to ride more un-intrusively as you meld together with traffic flow. Respect the traffic rules and ride as if you were a car. The pattern can be seen in many north american suburbs and some major city roads.

As for the subway system, I absolutely hate the subway system here. Its still much more efficient to travel via PEV than it is to take public transit. Our public transit here has absolutely nothing compared to Asia or even European development. You should know by how unreliable the TTC is. I was late for work multiple times until I started commuting on my EX30
 

On 1/5/2024 at 7:15 PM, Unventor said:

Due to this in my most humble view in public traffic an EUC shouldn't operate as a MC, moped like is what I view as reasonable and relative safe. Should you ride much faster in car lanes then I seriously doubt rear traffic will keep the safety distance to counter if an EUC cuts out or loose balance for whatever reason

In my experience the more I keep up with traffic, cars behind me give me more space. If I am going under the speed limit however, cars squeeze and tailgate me harder. North America is heavily car oriented. To the point where all my close calls almost getting hit by a car have been on the sidewalk or bikelane going 20-25kmh. I feel safer on the road going faster.

In the end, I feel there is a place for big and fast wheels. Its really up to the user how they behave and ride. Same goes in any hobby. There are responsible motorcycle riders, there are the less responsible stunt riders. The only problem is EUC is still in its infancy and not readily accepted by the public so we need to maintain a good image

To get this back on topic, I noticed rideone calling the v14 a great street wheel. I really dont think the v14 is geared towards street riding, but I guess in the middle of winter they cant really test the v14 offroad

Edited January 7 by Cobaltsaber

[Unventor]

10 minutes ago, Cobaltsaber said:

To get this back on topic, I noticed rideone calling the v14 a great street wheel. I really dont think the v14 is geared towards street riding, but I guess in the middle of winter they cant really test the v14 offroad

I have not ridden the V14 yet. But thinking of KS16x when it came out, it turn out to be a great city wheel due to the 16x3" tire that was not form standard at the time. It too have high torque vs many other wheels but due to Kingsong bulked under pressure for high speed some riders got surprised how fast they reached cut out speed because there wasn't enough safety margin to react with the raised top speed. It too performed rather good for off road and trail riders too. Now the way I see the V14 it is a modern KS16x with suspension. It means that it is nimble and fast to react both accelerating and when breaking. I suspect that the battery packs can keep up with reverse discharge from braking especially if you get the 50S version.

Since I am not going to use it as full speed it hopefully should go great within the perimeter I expect to use it. It also would mean it should provide me with more range as I don't ride super fast. I ride mostly at moped speeds unless on rare occasion go city center/downtown. As long I ride the bike lanes on the suburban areas and into country side I ride at 30kmh adv at 40-45top cruising speed and mostly empty bike lanes. Inner city speed is 15-25kmh due to bad road and bike lanes and crowded traffic. If I am in what translate into pedestrian streets (no motorized traffic) I am at 3-10kmh. As long I keep it under 6kmh we class as pedestrians here in Sweden.

In general I prefer to ride without power pads. Helps me not to ride too aggressively and get overconfident.

At this point I guess I am 85% sure to put an order on the V14. It is cold winter here not so no point in buying it right now. Yesterday I went to city center with black ice patched and harden snow and ice on some areas. Not ideal for euc rides. And freaking cold at -10C. The V11 did fine though and it used only 150wh for the 7,5km ride and properly same on the return trip. The bigger question for me though what tire I can find that suits the way I ride. My experience is that if pattern is solid on centerline of the tire it acts as slicks and that is very bad combo with wet streets and high torque.

What I think could be a super nice feature would be if you could connect the EUC with esim (as like IoT) to track it in case of theft but also when charging. Since I now store my EUC in a garage 200m from my flat.

[techyiam]

6 hours ago, Cobaltsaber said:

my EX30 provides and ride in a respectful manner. In some parts of the outer city, you simply need a faster wheel to keep up with traffic to be safer. I truly do believe in that. The power of these faster wheels allows you to ride more un-intrusively as you meld together with traffic flow.

If you don't mind my asking:

(1) What tire is on your EX30 when you ride it with the flow of traffic?

(2) Are police "looking the other way" when they see you riding with the speed of traffic in a car lane on your EX30?

(3) How do you convince yourself to trust your EX30 enough to ride with cars following behind you at speeds?