Modern EUC prices are getting out of hand?

[Murdomeek]

The new top of the line EUC's that are coming out (Master pro, EX30, V13, Sherman-S) are costing $4000-$4600usd!  That is totally insane prices for such a hobby.  Lets compare to put things into perspective...

A car:

• $4k gets you a 10 year old beater car
• unknown status of future repairs/maintenance
• $2k/year on insurance
• $1-2k /year on gas
• Most EUC riders already have fairly nice cars for car purposes (driving around things/people, etc)
• *Not really any sort of comparison, but people keep bringing it up

A road/mountain bike:

• $4k gets you a pretty high end carbon road or mountain bike.  Nowhere near 'elite' models though
• no battery
• no motor
• no electronics

Golf clubs set:

• $2-3k for a high end set of clubs
• Must pay a membership (or one time fee) to go to the range or course. varies depending on your location

Photography:

• $4k can get you pretty decent body and lens.  Nowhere near 'high end' lenses though

Drones:

• $4k for a high end complete drone set for aerial photography/video purposes is pretty standard.
• $4k for high end powerful fpv drone racing/flying purposes with fpv goggles, spare batts, spare parts, etc is reasonable

Gaming PC:

• high end gaming pc with to top the line RAM, graphics card, double/triple 4k monitors.  $4k can be reached easily 

Surron X high end ebike:

• $4350 
• 2040wh battery (60v*34ah)
• top speed: 47mph
• power: 6kw peak
• *You get less specs for around the same price..

Surron Ultra Bee higher end ebike:

• $6500
• 4070wh battery (74v*55ah) 
• top speed: 56mph
• power: 12.5kw peak
• *Slightly better specs, but the price is wayy more..

Nami burn e 2 high end escooter:

• $4600
• 2880wh battery (72v * 40ah)
• top speed: 60mph
• power: 3kw
• *You only get 2880wh for the price..

Bioboard plutonium 2S high end eboard:

• $3700 for dual motor.  ($4800 for 4 motor drive)
• 1380wh battery
• top speed: 68mph
• *You get a very very tiny battery for the price...

 

We all know friends/family/coworkers with these common hobbies.  How often do they bike/fly/golf?  How often do we ride?

Looking at the above comparisons, I'd say EUC's are worth every penny even at $4k+. You can still get a 3 year old 18XL for $2000, and the value still vastly beats any of these other hobbies.

 

People need to compare apples to apples.  You can't compare a V13 to a $1200 ebike with mten4 specs...  

 

Edited April 14, 2023 by Murdomeek

[Funky]

The value of item can't really be put into words. Only the buyer knows real value of said item.

 

Gamer, worker that spends 10-14hrs a day sitting at PC. Will gladly spend 4000$ for top of line machine. Because he uses said PC every day, be for personal entertainment, or for work.

Same person uses EUC only for daily trips and such. Not really as a "hobby", they can't really justify the same cost of 4000$ on a device he may uses only some times.

 

 

Taken from personal experience.  Each has their own value. I for sure could not live without my PC. As for EUC... I got my old trusty bike.

Same for car.. Some people would better pay 4000$ for a car. Compared 4000$ for this "Toy" named EUC. Again everybody has their own value on items they need/want.

 

Some of us could even justify 10.000$ on powerful EUC. But i personally would buy a car at that point. Even knowing i will pay more $$$ in long run gas/repairs/taxes/bills.. Car simply is way more conventional transport vehicle. Carrying heavy things like friends around and such.

 

Edited April 14, 2023 by Funky

[Hellkitten]

Try buying one in Canada……..

[BKW]

Yeah, they are expensive. Since I do deliveries in NYC on my EUCs, it's somewhat justified as my Sherman Max has 8.5K miles and I haven't had to replace ANYTHING but the trolley handles and light. I have made and saved a lot of money just by having an EUC with long longevity as the Sherman Max -- they've all been paid for by the work I do by now. If you get a good EUC, they will last a long time. Meanwhile, my bike has constant maintenance repairs and constant flats.

Beyond all that, the amount of wheels they are producing is crazy right now. If customers think a wheel is too much for what it is they will speak with their wallets. I personally don't ever want to go too further beyond the 4K mark. For me personally, it's just not worth it no matter what kind of EUC it is. Everything has a counterbalance to it (higher the prices, less buyers, etc). I personally think we are seeing the limit of many things with EUCs currently, including price.

[Clem604]

I agree that pricing for EUC's is getting out of hand, no doubt about that. Despite that,  I have no regrets with the EUC's I HAVE bought, most recently the Sherman S then before it the Mten4 and InMotion V11. I see these wheels not only as transportation but an investment in FUN

[Murdomeek]

9 minutes ago, Hellkitten said:

Try buying one in Canada……..

I'm Canadian. Just multiply all the numbers by 1.35, but the comparisons to other common hobbies are the same

[Murdomeek]

7 minutes ago, BKW said:

Yeah, they are expensive. Since I do deliveries in NYC on my EUCs, it's somewhat justified as my Sherman Max has 8.5K miles and I haven't had to replace ANYTHING but the trolley handles and light. I have made and saved a lot of money just by having an EUC with long longevity as the Sherman Max -- they've all been paid for by the work I do by now. If you get a good EUC, they will last a long time. Meanwhile, my bike has constant maintenance repairs and constant flats.

Beyond all that, the amount of wheels they are producing is crazy right now. If customers think a wheel is too much for what it is they will speak with their wallets. I personally don't ever want to go too further beyond the 4K mark. For me personally, it's just not worth it no matter what kind of EUC it is. Everything has a counterbalance to it (higher the prices, less buyers, etc). I personally think we are seeing the limit of many things with EUCs currently, including price.

Making money using an EUC definitely requires a whole other set of parameters to consider.  

I think there'll be higher priced EUC's in the future. Will they sell as much as 18XL's? No.  Do they sell many $10k camera lenses?  Or $15k road bikes?  No, but there will always be people willing to pay a premium price.  

[BKW]

6 minutes ago, Murdomeek said:

I'm Canadian. Just multiply all the numbers by 1.35, but the comparisons to other common hobbies are the same

I'm kind of confused by this as I hear this a lot from people in Canada...

Isn't price relative to your currency? For example, for 1 dollar in USD, it's 1.35 CAD. So if an EUC costs 3K in USA, then it's 4,055 in CAD. But isn't this price relative to where you live? I obviously am somewhat ignorant on this topic, but just because the price is 1K more for the same EUC in CAD compared to USD, isn't the price the same value because of currency differences?

So, for example, if you have 4,055 in CAD and take it to the US, then that 4,055 CAD turns into 3K... so you're buying an EUC at the same price relative to your country's currency?

Not really sure how to put it in words. Hopefully you get what I mean...

Edited April 14, 2023 by BKW

[Murdomeek]

8 minutes ago, Clem604 said:

I agree that pricing for EUC's is getting out of hand, no doubt about that. Despite that,  I have no regrets with the EUC's I HAVE bought, most recently the Sherman S then before it the Mten4 and InMotion V11. I see these wheels not only as transportation but an investment in FUN

I too have too many EUC's.  to the point where my wife is making me sell some this season .  Well worth the price of admission for this hobby.  I know a coworker who has a $10k camera lens.  He used it a total of 2 times last year..  But hey, you cant measure happiness right?  

[Murdomeek]

2 minutes ago, BKW said:

I'm kind of confused by this as I hear this a lot from people in Canada...

Isn't price relative to your currency? For example, for 1 dollar in USD, it's 1.35 CAD. So if an EUC costs 3K in USA, then it's 4,055 in CAD. But isn't this price relative to where you live? I obviously am somewhat ignorant on this topic, but just because the price is 1K more for the same EUC in CAD compared to USD, isn't the price the same value because of currency differences?

So, for example, if you have 4,055 in CAD and take it to the US, then that 4,055 CAD turns into 3K... so you're buying an EUC at the same price relative to your country's currency?

Not really sure how to put it in words. Hopefully you get what I mean...

Yes that is what I'm saying.  These eucs cost $5400cad.  But so do all the other hobbies I'm comparing it to.  ($6kcad ebikes, $6kcad gaming rigs, etc)

This method kinda falls apart if you start comparing to 3rd world countries where shipping/import tax/monthly wage skews the comparison.  Like if they pay $4kusd for their annual rent, buying a $4k euc would make very little sense.  (Thats the equivalent of an american paying $18k for a V13)

[Funky]

23 minutes ago, Murdomeek said:

This method kinda falls apart if you start comparing to 3rd world countries where shipping/import tax/monthly wage skews the comparison.  Like if they pay $4kusd for their annual rent, buying a $4k euc would make very little sense.  (Thats the equivalent of an american paying $18k for a V13)

It's easier to compare the actual income.. If people are making about 1000$ a month. And 700$ goes in to daily bills and what not. 4000$ is kinda a lot.. (~1 year of savings.)

But if they have saved over 50.000$, those 4000$ doesn't seems that much. (At least in my mind.. You can keep saving up till you die, not spending a dime. What's the point of money, if you don't spend it?)  It's not like you're spending those 4000$ every year.

Edited April 14, 2023 by Funky

[chanman]

Yeah I've been happy with the value proposition compared to the more direct competing products of high powered non-pedal assist type of electric bikes and high end electric skateboards. Obviously we've been seeing prices go up with the recent inflation, as well as feature and size creep with newer models, but not to the point of price gouging imo. 

[Cerbera]

Well, all the time we keep asking for more speed, more safety, more rugged materials, more redundancy, more range etc etc then of course all that comes at an increased price. And seeing as how we all seem mostly prepared to pay those prices, they haven't seen much discouragement to do more of that have they ? They have received some of course - Begode's Hero didn't do so well, but I think the V13 and ultimately al these damn battery fires may well be changing that trend, and we will accept that saftely and durability does indeed cost, and is worth the extras dollars...

Wrong Way did a video recently that bemoans the 'embiggening' of EUCs in recent trends, but I think he is wrong - I think they have given us exactly what we asked for !

And lithium has gone up loads over the years, so the massive battery packs we all seem to want have contributed a LOT to price increases.

My Master was £2650 and it took me about a year to save that. Even with the extra thousand I had to spend on top of that getting it 'up to spec' and extra armour etc I still consider that pretty decent value, providing I can get a solid 5 years of daily rides out of her...

So, let's quickly compare what I got with each of my EUCs...

1. Airwheel X5 - cost: £540 - motor 300 watt, top safe speed: 11 kph, range: 7 km - small size

2. Gotway MS3V - cost: £940 - motor 1500 watt, top safe speed: 32 kph, range: 35 km - medium size

3. Begode Master - cost: £2650 - motor 3500 watt, top safe speed: 65 kph, range: 100 km+ - large size

So looking at those 3 I'd say price has gone up proportionally with power and specs.

Edited April 14, 2023 by Cerbera

[Funky]

35 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

Well, all the time we keep asking for more speed, more safety, more rugged materials, more redundancy, more range etc etc

Not all... I have not asked ONCE for more..(Well only better rugged materials.) And there any many more people like myself. The slower euc riders, who simply don't join euc forums and don't talk about euc normally. This forum has been already proven, that most people here ride top notch euc's. And are owners of multiple euc's.

Regular rider who don't join forum are people who own only one EUC and are happy riding it. They don't care about next top big powerful euc around corner. They bought an euc that met their requirements and are happy riding it. Not caring about new releases. As they don't plan getting new one anytime soon. 

Edited April 14, 2023 by Funky

[Cerbera]

Yes it's the global 'we all' to which I refer. 'The vocal majority' I should have said...

[Funky]

15 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

Yes it's the global 'we all' to which I refer. 'The vocal majority' I should have said...

Tell me one who don't like big, fast, powerful euc?  Now compare the new ones to older/slower wheels. Tell me which side will sell more. Ofc new ones, no need to think even for a split second.

There's nothing wrong about owning fastest/powerful euc. But at some point speed/power becomes a waste. Will you ever be going 90km/h speed in city? (I bet some would..) But most would not.

 

What I'm saying is at some point the wheels simply become to fast.. And at that point they become a burden. Wasted money and such.

 

Edited April 14, 2023 by Funky

[Cerbera]

7 minutes ago, Funky said:

What I'm saying is at some point the wheels simply become to fast.. And at that point they become a burden. Wasted money and such.

Well yes, but we have to keep going faster until we know what 'too fast' is !!  I reckon I already know, and we are already there ! But I understand why people will keep trying to go faster until they literally can't stand up on them anymore ! 

Edited April 14, 2023 by Cerbera

[Punxatawneyjoe]

43 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

Wrong Way did a video recently that bemoans the 'embiggening' of EUCs in recent trends, but I think he is wrong - I think they have given us exactly what we asked for !

Agreed, Adams videos were one of the first i watched to learn about EUC's. I enjoyed them and enjoyed the way he reviewed them as well but over the last year or so he has seemed to "sell out" to certain manufacturers and has turned into kind of a whiner. His last few videos have an overabundance of whining going on and he has taken some weird stances on certain topics. 

As @Funky pointed out, those that are content with slower speeds and less weight already have options and probably aren't in the market for a new EUC anyway. Do i need to go 56mph on my v13? Definitely not, but do i like the option to keep up with the flow of traffic so as not to be annoying the people behind me, absolutely. Here we aren't allowed to share the sidewalk with pedestrians so we are forced onto the street. Nothing more annoying to a driver than someone going 20-25mph in a 35mph zone so they are forced to stay back or hit 50 trying to pass you. Here in the states and especially Mass. everyone is in a rush, always. Most of the roads around here don't really have a shoulder to ride on as well. So i like the new options and feel we are pretty much at the end of the line when it comes to speed on an EUC. It's probably impossible to go any faster than an unlocked v13 can because of the wind resistance alone. So hopefully they can now concentrate on better quality, reliability and quality control. Oh and waterproofing on all wheels which i can believe is not the standard at this point.

[Mark.on.2.wheels]

Interesting comments.
I'm still looking for my first wheel, and my motto is "never pay retail."
Yeah, I'm the cheap s.o.b. you probably don't want to see come in your store... so I've been perusing the used market, including here. Problem I have is, in my region of the country I've never even SEEN a live EUC.
Nobody sells them that I've found, and retailers (bikes, scooters, etc.) don't even know of anyone who does. A friend has a One Wheel, but that's not the same thing. And his is the only one of those I've seen.
I'll keep looking; something will turn up. I've really only looked at InMotion seriously; I'd like to buy American if I can. 
My China expenditures are primarily in drones, phones and computers.
Motorcycles are my transportation, and the EUC will be primarily for hobby and dog training. (No, I don't expect my German Shepherd to ride it... he'll just have to follow.)
Oh, yeah... hi everyone.

[Funky]

28 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

Well yes, but we have to keep going faster until we know what 'too fast' is !!  I reckon I already know, and we are already there ! But I understand why people will keep trying to go faster until they literally can't stand up on them anymore ! 

Same here 40km/h is perfect speed. At least for me.

I just watched Wrong Way video and i 100% agree about everything he said. Like where the 16X and V13 sits.. It's perfect showcase. Most people only need 16X performance, anything more is simply "waste". V13 is for those madman's, who like to ride all day.. And at high speeds. (Yes YOU! I'm talking about you. You know who you are. You would like to ride all day - if only could. Most people aren't like you..)  

27 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

As @Funky pointed out, those that are content with slower speeds and less weight already have options and probably aren't in the market for a new EUC anyway. Do i need to go 56mph on my v13? Definitely not, but do i like the option to keep up with the flow of traffic so as not to be annoying the people behind me, absolutely. Here we aren't allowed to share the sidewalk with pedestrians so we are forced onto the street. Nothing more annoying to a driver than someone going 20-25mph in a 35mph zone so they are forced to stay back or hit 50 trying to pass you. Here in the states and especially Mass. everyone is in a rush, always. Most of the roads around here don't really have a shoulder to ride on as well. So i like the new options and feel we are pretty much at the end of the line when it comes to speed on an EUC. It's probably impossible to go any faster than an unlocked v13 can because of the wind resistance alone. So hopefully they can now concentrate on better quality, reliability and quality control. Oh and waterproofing on all wheels which i can believe is not the standard at this point.

In my country it's the opposite. I would be dead to see any EUC rider in streets riding with cars.. We ride on sidewalks. (At least i haven't seen anyone riding with cars. I only see smaller/slower euc's here.)

So naturally if you don't ride with cars. V13 would be overkill to ride on sidewalk. Even my 18xl going 40km/h on sidewalk is quit FAST. (OFC i go those speeds when no-one is around. I got long straight empty paths. Around people i go from running, to walking speeds.)

 

Each country has their own customs.. Where you ride with cars big/fast euc's that cost 4000$ is a must!!! But if you don't ride with cars a 1000-2000$ euc is the best. 

Still i would like to see something "new" in same weight class as my older wheel.

Edited April 15, 2023 by Funky

[Glock43x]

6 hours ago, Murdomeek said:

EUC is expensive and can add up super quick if you own  few.  It is getting out of hand with the price though. EUC is not like other hobbies . You own 2 and you're cover for a long time or until it dies. At least for me. I can't justify buying a $4k EUC when my current ones do me just fine.

Gets even more expensive when you have other expensive hobbies

1. Hunting, fishing. >>> The most expensive hobby. lol

2. I just love guns. Ammos are super expensive

3. I am also a hobbyist photographer with expensive gears. Talking about $15k+

4. gamer.

 

 

[OldFartRides]

3 hours ago, Mark.on.2.wheels said:

I'm still looking for my first wheel, and my motto is "never pay retail."

Oh, yeah... hi everyone.

Welcome to the forum ya cheap bastad.

[Aztek]

11 hours ago, Murdomeek said:

The new top of the line EUC's that are coming out (Master pro, EX30, V13, Sherman-S) are costing $4000-$4600usd!  That is totally insane prices for such a hobby.  Lets compare to put things into perspective...

A car:

• $4k gets you a 10 year old beater car
• unknown status of future repairs/maintenance
• $2k/year on insurance
• $1-2k /year on gas
• Most EUC riders already have fairly nice cars for car purposes (driving around things/people, etc)
• *Not really any sort of comparison, but people keep bringing it up

A road/mountain bike:

• $4k gets you a pretty high end carbon road or mountain bike.  Nowhere near 'elite' models though
• no battery
• no motor
• no electronics

Golf clubs set:

• $2-3k for a high end set of clubs
• Must pay a membership (or one time fee) to go to the range or course. varies depending on your location

Photography:

• $4k can get you pretty decent body and lens.  Nowhere near 'high end' lenses though

Drones:

• $4k for a high end complete drone set for aerial photography/video purposes is pretty standard.
• $4k for high end powerful fpv drone racing/flying purposes with fpv goggles, spare batts, spare parts, etc is reasonable

Gaming PC:

• high end gaming pc with to top the line RAM, graphics card, double/triple 4k monitors.  $4k can be reached easily 

Surron X high end ebike:

• $4350 
• 2040wh battery (60v*34ah)
• top speed: 47mph
• power: 6kw peak
• *You get less specs for around the same price..

Surron Ultra Bee higher end ebike:

• $6500
• 4070wh battery (74v*55ah) 
• top speed: 56mph
• power: 12.5kw peak
• *Slightly better specs, but the price is wayy more..

Nami burn e 2 high end escooter:

• $4600
• 2880wh battery (72v * 40ah)
• top speed: 60mph
• power: 3kw
• *You only get 2880wh for the price..

Bioboard plutonium 2S high end eboard:

• $3700 for dual motor.  ($4800 for 4 motor drive)
• 1380wh battery
• top speed: 68mph
• *You get a very very tiny battery for the price...

 

We all know friends/family/coworkers with these common hobbies.  How often do they bike/fly/golf?  How often do we ride?

Looking at the above comparisons, I'd say EUC's are worth every penny even at $4k+. You can still get a 3 year old 18XL for $2000, and the value still vastly beats any of these other hobbies.

 

People need to compare apples to apples.  You can't compare a V13 to a $1200 ebike with mten4 specs...  

 

They self regulate, provided there are options on the market. In this line of thinking, the right price is the highest, people are willing to pay.

With EUCs, problem is, one gets crappy Chinese quality for the money. And  ridiculous support. Absent information. And zero safety. 

All this due to no market alternatives. All EUCs are Chinese made  of the similar "quality".  And the idea of quality of these people is rather careless.

That's all there is.

Edited April 15, 2023 by Aztek

[mhpr262]

20 hours ago, BKW said:

the amount of wheels they are producing is crazy right now

It makes me so happy to see EUCs doing so well nowadays and becoming more and more popular! When I first discovered them around six years ago or so I felt sure their popularity was about to explode, but almost nothing of the sort happened and I was afraid for a long time they were just a fad and were in danger of fading away again, like Hoverboards and Segways.

[mrelwood]

23 hours ago, Funky said:

Tell me one who don't like big, fast, powerful euc?

Me me me!!!

 

23 hours ago, Mark.on.2.wheels said:

I've really only looked at InMotion seriously; I'd like to buy American if I can.

Not sure if I read you correctly, but Inmotion is just as Chinese as all the other manufacturers. Even so, they are the only ones I look seriously at as well.

 

While I’m of the opinion that an EUC can be so enriching to one’s life, that any kinds of comparisons to other vehicles are completely futile. If the experience of EUCs would’ve cost me $20’000, it would’ve still been worth it to me.

BUT. That doesn’t present the actual market value at all, and it’s not something that the manufacturers can/should use as a base when pricing them.

The Hero episode showed us that Begode could drop the price of the wheel for something like $1000USD when they got a direct competitor. What does that tell us?

I do think that the new EUCs since 2020 cost too much. OTOH, bigger batteries and larger motors do cost more, and if you need them, it might be worth it. But if you don’t need them, the extra price and the decreased usability (due to weight and size) are utterly pointless. Besides, 3000Wh of GA’s cost 1162,50€ to a consumer, surely much less for the manufacturers. There’s still  over 3000€ of wheel left in the other parts.

 People keep saying that there are already options for slower wheels. But all in all, how many 70+ km/h wheels have been developed? And how many sub 30 kg suspension wheels have been developed?

 Answer to the second question is 2, and to the first one: “Too many to count.”