2disbetter Posted March 16, 2023 Author Share Posted March 16, 2023 4 hours ago, Josiah said: Any chance the kickstand got a loose bolt and fell when it jammed the wheel up? Most likely what happened. Why it happened is the real question at this point. I didn't have to break my shoulder. I'm not out for blood or anything. I want my V12 to still be good. I just need to be able to trust it. 14 hours ago, Eucner said: Leatt 5.5 Body Protector's shoulder pads are only Class 1 Type A. I do prefer more protective Class 2 pads with larger Type B cover for shoulders. An air bag would be ideal. Any suggestion on type 2 pads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Brahan Seer Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 15 hours ago, chanman said: Airbag vests stand a good chance but aren't optimal for EUC use, the algorithm based ones aren't programmed for our types of motion and the tether ones would go off too easily or too late. There is a discussion with Helite on this very forum just now about addressing this. Hopefully they will come up with a workable solution. I think an Airbag vest would be the best option once the algorithms and good design are created specifically for EUC riders. As stated above most shoulder injuries are a result of the force transferring from the hands->wrists->arms-> to shoulder. Wearing wrist guards will absorb a little of the impact or help transfer the force through the arms to shoulder depending how lucky or unlucky the dynamics of the crash are and who you speak to. I think wearing a leather motorcycle jacket would help with some of the transfer of force and it also stabilises the shoulder better. But they are hot in summer and most don't like wearing them. I had a mate who smashed his shoulder into a pole at the side of the road on a motorcycle and doctors told him without his leather jacket he would have lost the shoulder/arm. Instead he just broke everything and needed major surgery and stitches. Disclosure I wear a leather motorcycle jacket most times and body armour like suggested above in summer. If I get a faster wheel and plan going fast I will wear both. Bare in mind the force hitting the ground (gravity) is the same going 5 or 50Mph, Slower speeds actually scrub off the the initial impact worse then if you were going faster and transferring some of the force in sliding. Ultimately it is luck of the draw, nothing can guarantee you won't break your shoulder again in a fall but the risk or odds might be lower wearing gear. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 54 minutes ago, The Brahan Seer said: Bare in mind the force hitting the ground (gravity) is the same going 5 or 50Mph, Slower speeds actually scrub off the the initial impact worse then if you were going faster and transferring some of the force in sliding. Imo one of the reasons for the bad face/torso injuries is if one touches ground with the feet first. By them braking the forward motion the "normal gravity fall" is accelerated. Inertia of the body pushes forward, the feet "drag backwards", gravity keep the feet on the ground so a torque accelerates the head downto the ground. The faster one goes, the faster one should accelerate down by this. The solution to overcome this "effect" should be to slide on the knees (protectors) instead of "braking with the toes"? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2disbetter Posted March 16, 2023 Author Share Posted March 16, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Chriull said: Imo one of the reasons for the bad face/torso injuries is if one touches ground with the feet first. By them braking the forward motion the "normal gravity fall" is accelerated. Inertia of the body pushes forward, the feet "drag backwards", gravity keep the feet on the ground so a torque accelerates the head downto the ground. The faster one goes, the faster one should accelerate down by this. The solution to overcome this "effect" should be to slide on the knees (protectors) instead of "braking with the toes"? This is precisely what happened to me. I was ejected from the wheel violently, with my left foot touching down first. Since the touch down was the tip of my boot, and not the sole, this launched me forward as you are describing. The next thing I remember is slamming into the ground with my shoulder. No sliding took place at all. It was like I crashed into a brick wall. I always pictured a crash having some slide in it, and me being able to mostly walk away. Just really annoyed that I didn't the V13 out that morning instead. I think airbag system would be amazing if it worked reliably. False activations at speed could be a very bad thing. Edited March 16, 2023 by 2disbetter 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg X Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 (edited) On 3/15/2023 at 4:07 AM, 2disbetter said: This last Saturday I was riding the V12 on some farm paths near my house. Doing somewhere around 40-50 kph the wheel just turned off, locked up, and literally threw me to ground. My shoulder was broken as a result. The wheel would not turn on anymore and the wheel does not freespin at all. I'm at a loss for words. I trusted the wheel. I did nothing wrong. The road was smooth and void of debris. I was not exceeding the wheel's speed limits, and I had no wobbles. It was near perfect riding. How can I trust my EUCs to not do this same thing again? What if I was going much faster? Does inmotion have an obligation to me? Just typing this up was a struggle thanks to my shoulder and the sling that arm is in. I'm grateful I wasn't going faster and that things were not worse. Up to this point, I really liked the V12 HT. so why You bought Inmotion v12 - its widely known for maaaaaaany issues with motherboards and power delivery..... and You ride such small, dangerous wheel offroad 50kph......? I wouldn't trust this brand at all especially if you want to ride fast. Edited March 16, 2023 by Greg X 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josiah Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 (edited) I really like this jacket. It saved me a few times. https://amzn.to/40eqe4e Helped me yesterday https://m.youtube.com/shorts/6Vfn0MV3AXY Edited March 16, 2023 by Josiah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 Going with level 2 is always better, but you're still dealing with luck in a fall. I went with a moto jacket partly because I wanted L2 padding but couldn't locate L2 body armor short of American football or hockey equipment (that's not 'rated'). I have not been body slammed to the pavement yet. Not looking forward to that day, at all. Heal up. I don't know how you'll get to a point where you trust your wheel... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2disbetter Posted March 16, 2023 Author Share Posted March 16, 2023 57 minutes ago, Greg X said: so why You bought Inmotion v12 - its widely known for maaaaaaany issues with motherboards and power delivery..... I have seen mor evidence against any other euc manufacturer. In many ways Inmotion is the only tackling safety and quality. The V13 I have is a completely different story and exemplifies what I'm talking about here. The issues you are referring to was with the first release of the V12. The V12 HT addressed that and has never had a mention of cut outs like that. (that im aware of) I am still talking with inmotion but I believe my cut out was the result of the kickstand getting sucked into the wheel well. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chanman Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 (edited) Don't bother engaging the begode stans, many of them are reasonable people who know what they bought, but some of them have a need to attack other brands in order to feel ok with their own wheel, and it's not worth talking with them. Edited March 16, 2023 by chanman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem604 Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, chanman said: some of them have a need to attack other brands in order to feel ok with their own I see this happen quite a bit on the car and mobile phone forums I engage with but I have to say that there is a lot less of this going on here compared to the ones I've mentioned. It still exists here for sure but I feel that most people on here are pretty reasonable, much more than some. Edited March 16, 2023 by Clem604 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkay Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 I find the InMotion V12HT to be a reliable fun machine, HOWEVER the kickstand needs some help! I am a new rider so I feel like I am saturated with inputs while I learn to ride, but as I was now buzzing around I realized I didn’t have Soundwave on, well what is the buzzing, kickstand rubbing on the semi aggressive tire on my V12. I do suspect it could get drawn into the bodywork with a sudden stoppage less than desired! Lesson learnt, both foot pads open, kickstand up, wobble away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post 2disbetter Posted March 16, 2023 Author Popular Post Share Posted March 16, 2023 I plan on fully removing the kickstand. I have a bias against them now... 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkay Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 Meeee toooo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhpr262 Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 (edited) 17 minutes ago, 2disbetter said: I plan on fully removing the kickstand. I have a bias against them now... Yeah there is no way I would ever keep the kickstand on with a knobby on the wheel. I have forgotten to put it up soooo many times after putting the parked wheel upright and switching it on. Only the factory CST 1488 with the continuous center ridge has saved me. God knows what would happen if I ever decided to drop from a curb with the kickstand down, nothing good I imagine. Fear of that happening is the second most impportant reason why I never drop from curbs, with the most important one being my weight, LOL. Edited March 16, 2023 by mhpr262 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 4 hours ago, Chriull said: Imo one of the reasons for the bad face/torso injuries is if one touches ground with the feet first. By them braking the forward motion the "normal gravity fall" is accelerated. Inertia of the body pushes forward, the feet "drag backwards", gravity keep the feet on the ground so a torque accelerates the head downto the ground. The faster one goes, the faster one should accelerate down by this. The solution to overcome this "effect" should be to slide on the knees (protectors) instead of "braking with the toes"? Aside of trying to land on knees. Falling on belly also is the right way to do it? I still remember how i flied ~2 meters and landed on my belly. Didn't hurt at all, thanks to landing in loose sand. I was amazed how far back i needed to walk - to get the wheel. I literally was superman for short moment. 53 minutes ago, 2disbetter said: I have seen mor evidence against any other euc manufacturer. In many ways Inmotion is the only tackling safety and quality. The V13 I have is a completely different story and exemplifies what I'm talking about here. The issues you are referring to was with the first release of the V12. The V12 HT addressed that and has never had a mention of cut outs like that. (that im aware of) I am still talking with inmotion but I believe my cut out was the result of the kickstand getting sucked into the wheel well. Doh he isn't wrong about 16" non-suspension wheel going off-road part.. At lass we don't know how smooth your "farm" paths are. And V12 had many problems. But most should have been fixed by now. 23 minutes ago, 2disbetter said: I plan on fully removing the kickstand. I have a bias against them now... Wise choice indeed. Any kickstand that can be pulled by tire - is a fail from build design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eucner Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 6 hours ago, 2disbetter said: Any suggestion on type 2 pads? It is really hard to find Class 2 Type B shoulder pads in body armors. Rev'it! Protector Jacket Proteus and Rukka RPS AFT Protector Shirt meet these requirements. I'm using a Alpinestars motorcycle jacket with SAS-TEC SC-1/EVO1 or Knox Urban Pro Mk2 with SAS-TEC SC-1/03 shoulder pads. In cold weather I would use D3O pads with T- rating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg X Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, 2disbetter said: The issues you are referring to was with the first release of the V12. The V12 HT addressed that and has never had a mention of cut outs like that. nope. Both v12 and v12HT had and have still issues with power, first it were cutouts, motherboards, now some strange selfaccelerating, balancing malfunction. Adam had 2x crash bcs. of that, same choochTech - both on newest v12 HT. Ond not only they, many others (including You) also crashed for "unexplained reasons". i know, that IM owners like to claim, that this brand is top quality, but this is only conjuring reality. They usually dont know much (or nothing) about electronics, battery etc. Lack of passive balancing in IM products sounds like pure joke - this it "top quality" ? v13 looks better (but its brand new wheel, which means in China - "prototype product", after 1 year we will see if its really worth to buy). V11 and v12 were built very bad way. Elegant from the outside, but very delicate, weak electronics and highly complicated construction. Thats why they have so many severe issues with almost anything. Edited March 16, 2023 by Greg X 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagingGrandpa Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 9 minutes ago, Greg X said: Lack of passive balancing in IM products Wrongway was wrong about that: https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/32080-do-inmotion-battery-packs-perform-cell-balancing-yes/ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post 2disbetter Posted March 16, 2023 Author Popular Post Share Posted March 16, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, RagingGrandpa said: Wrongway was wrong This in general seems to be a trend for his channel. His particular way of riding and the things he does with his wheels are not, IMO, very representative of how most people will use a wheel. I feel a lot of his issues are for drama and click bait. I don't begrudge him that, I just don't watch his videos. Edited March 16, 2023 by 2disbetter 3 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josiah Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 (edited) Wrong Waze videos are one of the first videos that got me into EUC along with Hsiang and Madpack Chooch and Zen Lee I love the fact that all of these guys bring in more new enthusiasts to the community which increases the market for our manufacturers and distributors, ultimately making the wheel market bigger and better Hope that shoulder is healing up quickly not much you can do about it besides keep it in a splint for as long as possible and maybe have a check to make sure the bone is healing right? Edited March 16, 2023 by Josiah 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punxatawneyjoe Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 The begode board he held up looks like something from the 70's . It's funny how Surge claims to know whats in the micro IC's on the inmotion board. It's like a 80's mechanic looking for the plug wires on a new car. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flygonial Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 Will vouch for a moto jacket as how I got level 2 pads. Many of the ones starting around $150 plus will come with them, part of why I didn't settle for one around the 100 or sub 100 dollar mark even if many of those would still work with a pad swap. Both chest protectors and armor will usually come with back protectors, which are also nice for a touch of insurance against a careless car driver behind you (obviously it'd only do so much if someone plows straight through you vs. just braking late). Chest protection is usually less necessary for us (no handlebars to be thrown against, but it doesn't hurt. I'm not sure exactly how the thresholds for how they're able to spread forces out is determined, but the max force allowable on CE 2 pads is half of what CE 1 pads should allow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josiah Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 (edited) Progress on you and or the wheel? probably impossible to work on it one-handed though. Edited March 21, 2023 by Josiah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellkitten Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Yeah how’s the shoulder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josiah Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 On 3/21/2023 at 3:21 PM, Josiah said: Progress on you ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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