techyiam Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 I recommend replacing the inner tube with a new one, unless you have figured out a way to patch inner tubes in electric wheels successfully. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted September 4, 2023 Author Share Posted September 4, 2023 (edited) I am having a total disaster here. Got the suspension fitted OK (I think), which was quite some effort in itself, but somehow managed to rip the damn inner tube as I refitted the tyre, as so many do, despite being fully aware of the risk, and trying my best to mitigate it. I have to use big MC Tyre irons otherwise there is just no damn chance of getting that MC tyre over the rim. Got it out again, patched it with cycle repair kit, and tried to refit, at which point it ripped somewhere else. The first time I tried it with it fully deflated, and the second time, with a little bit of air in it to round it out slightly. Ripped both times, and I don't know what I am doing wrong... Edited September 4, 2023 by Cerbera 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellkitten Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 Did you use soapy water to lube the tire and rim? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcatraz Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 (edited) Don't use metal or pointy tire levers. If you do you have to be super careful. They're meant to be used with tubeless tires usually. Putting a little bit of air in the tube is good because it moves away from the bead where your levers are going to be. You can deflate it before you muscle the last bead lip onto the rim. Not earlier. If the tube or the inside of the tire is really sticky then that's a problem. You can tear a tube by just inflating it, if it can't seat properly. Use talcum powder. On the question of punctures and changing of inner tubes, I don't think I've ever had an external puncture. It's always been because of inner tube fatigue or a snakebite from the rim itself bottoming out. Snakebites you can patch but not fatigue. The tube is worn out. If you patch it, it'll work for a few days and leak again. Edited September 4, 2023 by alcatraz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted September 4, 2023 Author Share Posted September 4, 2023 24 minutes ago, alcatraz said: You can deflate it before you muscle the last bead lip onto the rim. Not earlier. Ah - that may have been where I went wrong. I had it slightly inflated from the start, but didn't completely empty it once I was at the final wrench to get it over the rim. Anyway, after another 2 hours of wrangling (this operation has been nearly 12 in total !) I am pleased to report I managed to find and patch the tiny puncture in the old inner tube, and that went back in without pinching or ripping thank god, and has re-inflated and is holding pressure OK... I am going to sleep now, before checking it all and doing the final reassembly, but she powers on and balances OK, and the new shock is holding pressure. Dear oh dear, I really could have done without that - it has been a very stressy night ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted September 4, 2023 Author Share Posted September 4, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Hellkitten said: Did you use soapy water to lube the tire and rim? No. I should have done that or waited and got some tyre lube really. Noted for next time ! I did use talcum powder on the inner tube, but perhaps not enough initially. 37 minutes ago, alcatraz said: The tube is worn out. If you patch it, it'll work for a few days and leak again. I hope not. Previous patches on previous wheel held for properly ages, and the inner tube actually looked in very good condition, and water test proved it was only 1 tiny tiny hole. So my hopes are not dashed yet... it only has to keep going long enough for me to get another coupla inner tubes in the post ! Edited September 4, 2023 by Cerbera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcatraz Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 (edited) Depends on where the hole is. Inner tube sidewalls take a beating and wear out the entire tube at once. You won't get a nail through the side. 40 minutes ago, Cerbera said: but didn't completely empty it once I was at the final wrench to get it over the rim That's the right way. IMO. Fewest surprises that way. Edited September 4, 2023 by alcatraz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Brahan Seer Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 6 hours ago, Cerbera said: I should have done that or waited and got some tyre lube really. Something Afeez from e-Rides recommended to me was coconut oil (Lidl sells jars of it). It works really well. The main advantage is it doesn't create any mess and is easy to apply even though its in solid form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUCzero Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 16 hours ago, Cerbera said: Well, after putting up with a leaky suspension I have to pump up before every ride, for nearly 3 months now I am forced by a slow tyre leak to finally get in there and swap out the shock and change the inner tube, if not the tyre as well, something I have been nervously procrastinating for quite some time. The question is - should I just replace the inner tube (and therefore only have to get one side of the original CST tyre off, or should I put this Michelin City Extra I have sitting here on at the same time ? having spent nearly a year acclimatising to the tippy CST and wearing it down to the point where it actually isn't that tippy any more I have got rather used to it and appreciate its excellent grip in gravel and mud and off-road. It still has lots of wear left in it, so I could just replace or patch the tube. Or, for those of you who have done it, do you think I am going to seriously appreciate the improved feel of turns and carving if I fit the street tyre ? Cheers for any advice... I dont find the tire change such a bad job on the Master. Do it. Test it. If you love it keep it. Hate it change back. It's a 1-2 hour job it you work slowly. Not so bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUCzero Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 hahaha. And then I read that you struggled like hell. So sorry. Changing tire is a technic job. But when you learn how to use the center of the rim to put the tire in on one side, to get enough head rom on the other side, you don't even need tools to get the original CST tire on. For more rigd street tires you might need a tool for the bitter last bit. But DO NOT PUT THE TOOL DEEP IN. Only a 1mm on the inside of the edge of the rim. And almost no air in the tube at this point. You need the tire to be able to fall into the mid groove of the rim on the opposite side, and with air int the tube you can not do that. Next time it will be easier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted September 4, 2023 Author Share Posted September 4, 2023 (edited) Well, the suspension seems to work, so that's all good (for however long that lasts !) and the tyre is holding its pressure, though feels rather different in the ride, probably because I have pumped it up about 5-7 PSI more than the 15 PSI I used to give it. at least up to 30 kph it doesn't wobble, so that's something, and gives me hope the tyre went back on right ! Also, pads went back in a slightly different position, but it felt rather better as I did a test ride to the supermarket as dusk fell earlier. As is my habit, I recorded a tour to see if anything logged as out of ordinary in EUC World and there are some things I don't understand I thought I'd share in case anyone had any salient thoughts about them... Here's the link to the tour, which should be public / viewable by everyone... 2 things concern me: 1. Between 8:02 and 8:04 we seem to have no data. I was in a supermarket at the time (where they have just installed a new automatic barrier system), so perhaps there was interference from that somehow. I notice after the data resumes we suddenly gain 150 ft of altitude, and I swear that shop isn't on a slope ! 2. If we look at the Tour Statistics it reckons we had a max current of 30 Amps and max power draw of nearly 4000 Watts, which is unusually high, especially given that this was an easy, level test ride, with no bonks or big drops, in which I barely crested 30 kph anywhere in it ! Whats further weird is that EUCW doesn't show these extremes - indeed amps and power never get anywhere near that level in any of the graphs under the map, as we can see from their range, which (I thought) autocalibrate to the max / min... Any ideas what's goin' on there ? Lastly, does anyone know why amps and power go into negative as much as they do postive ? Edited September 4, 2023 by Cerbera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcatraz Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 Braking is negative amps minus a few losses. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted September 22, 2023 Author Share Posted September 22, 2023 So, having replaced my tragically leaking original shock from the Master, I am wondering what the potential recovery options might be... In an ideal world I would like to identify the problem, service it and then have it as working spare. Would appreciate any hints on disassembly / what to check / replace etc etc.. Cheers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted November 8, 2023 Author Share Posted November 8, 2023 (edited) Anybody got any experience or perhaps any photos of changing out, or fixing the Master's trolley handle ? Mine is no longer latching on one side, and I am wondering how much of a challenge it might be to get in there and try and fix it... slightly worried that if I just undo those screws at the top holding it on the springs might just make all the parts ping everywhere, and I'll have no idea how to reassemble ! Edited November 8, 2023 by Cerbera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whalesmash Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 2 hours ago, Cerbera said: Anybody got any experience or perhaps any photos of changing out, or fixing the Master's trolley handle ? Mine is no longer latching on one side, and I am wondering how much of a challenge it might be to get in there and try and fix it... slightly worried that if I just undo those screws at the top holding it on the springs might just make all the parts ping everywhere, and I'll have no idea how to reassemble ! I dont have pictures but it's not a difficult job. It's more of a pain in the butt if anything. There isn't really anything that can go flying except for the screws that hold the plastic top in. Springs in the tubes are very large and are hard to miss. Other than that, not really any floating components. Working on the handle itself on the other hand is kind of annoying since the plastic tends to wear poorly and there's some plastic locking clips that need to be pried off to access the locking pins. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 2 hours ago, Cerbera said: Anybody got any experience or perhaps any photos of changing out, or fixing the Master's trolley handle ? Mine is no longer latching on one side, and I am wondering how much of a challenge it might be to get in there and try and fix it... slightly worried that if I just undo those screws at the top holding it on the springs might just make all the parts ping everywhere, and I'll have no idea how to reassemble ! You could try the replacement part I designed it fixed most my problems: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5797245 It's not so difficult to take it apart. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 (edited) Well it's been a few months since I needed to post here, in which I have had a good long period of no-problems riding !! I knew it couldn't last (entropy / Begode etc) but I enjoyed it while it was there. There has been a LOT of wet weather recently, and although I have avoided downpours, I have been riding around in generally very wet conditions since October. There have been a lot of puddles ! Alas on yesterday's routine shopping trip just as Storm Isha was getting started I was trolleying the Master about, and noticed a return of the dreaded 'crnnking' bearings noise, once per revolution. Ah well, I had done the first re-greasing over 8 months ago, and I had suspected that might only be a temporary fix. Well, I still have some problems accepting I must change the bearings, so once more I have been in there, removed the grease that was there, tidied up a bit, and added a thick new bead of Liqui-moly Marine to replace the old stuff on both sides. Will upload pics later so we can see the state of things before and after, but generally speaking all the grease I put there last time was still there, which was good in that it obviously hadn't leaked anywhere (like the motor) but had gone a sort of dull opaque grey, so thought it best to replace it anyway. On opening... after cleaning out (not very thorough). As we can see, bearings themselves look pretty good - no sign of rust particularly, and clean shiny balls that all look suitably round and unabraded... ...so new stuff in (generous round the seal edges) and all back together with thin layer coating the covers. Other side very much like that. Much faster job this time now I vaguely know what I am doing, so we're back up and running in under 3 hours, and early tests 'seem' to be encouraging in that I haven't heard the noise yet since redistributing the grease around the wheel with a speed test and some trolleying around the drive... Edited January 22 by Cerbera 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 The grease has gone grey due to metal contamination. The bearing surfaces might be shiny but theres deffo wear going on. Still, if you can get back on and ride it all good for the moment! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 (edited) Yeah, I think I'll swap that grease out a maximum of 3 times before I change the bearings for new ones. I don't like the idea of metal contamination, but was still relieved to open it up and not see a horrible mess of brown rust as I feared might be the case. I will continue monitoring it and be increasingly vigilant for changing wheel sounds and visible signs of decrapitude !! Edited January 22 by Cerbera 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 (edited) And so, after another bloody flat on Sunday it is finally time to relegate the CST to the corner and for me to enter the street tyre age only 14 months after getting the wheel ! I guess we can't say I didn't give the CST a fair go ! I wonder if this new one will lessen my vulnerability to wind and improve the 'felt' stability at all ? I fully got used to the knife-edge feel of the CST, but I would be delighted if I got this back on and that wasn't there ! Was massively nervous about doing this tyre swap, as last time I had to change the inner tube I managed to break 2 of them before I finally got one installed that didn't get ripped or pinched, or otherwise compromised. I did have my 3 big MC tyre irons standing by, but thought I would follow Roger's advice today, and much to my surprise, using 'his' method of constantly pushing the other side of the tyre into the centre of the rim I was able to get mine in with only 1 brief use of 1 iron - the rest of it was all massaging and pushing, and was delighted to find that got me there, and I am relieved to find it holds air first time ! On the CST I was happy with a very low PSI - 15-20. For anyone running city tyres on your Masters, what do you pump yours to (and how heavy are you geared up) ? And did I get it on the right way round ?! Unhelpfully the City Extra has 2 opposing arrows, one for 'front wheel' and another for 'back'. I have heard arguments for both on EUC, but I think I went with 'front' in the end ! Edited February 6 by Cerbera 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) 8 hours ago, Cerbera said: I was able to get mine in with only 1 brief use of 1 iron - the rest of it was all massaging and pushing, and was delighted to find that got me there, and the damn thing holds air first time ! +1. It feels satisfying when a tire change goes that smoothly. The trick is to keep the tire bead in the "valley of the rim" (smaller diameter). I use a welding visa-grip pinching the tire beads at one spot. At the diametrically opposite spot of the tire would be the valve stem. This is done because the valve stem would get in the way of the tire bead getting to the centre of the rim. Then use generous amount of dishwashing liquid. I no longer have "tire change anxiety" with even the stiffest tires. Edited February 6 by techyiam 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 (edited) 6 hours ago, techyiam said: I no longer have "tire change anxiety" with even the stiffest tires. I am glad these new EUC tyres are so much thicker and stiffer (TWSS etc) as they are now - although it won't take my mounted weight if I get a full flat, the side walls of the CST were still stiff enough to allow me to trolley it a mile or 2 home without falling off the rim, which would have been impossible on the older style bike tyres we used to get. And the Michelin is stiffer still, so I have high hopes for it. And for that it's a small price to pay that's a bit extra hassle putting MC tyres on with their almost rigid side walls... Edited February 6 by Cerbera 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 (edited) 5 hours ago, Cerbera said: I am glad these new EUC tyres are so much thicker and stiffer (TWSS etc) as they are now - although it won't take my mounted weight if I get a full flat, the side walls of the CST were still stiff enough to allow me to trolley it a mile or 2 home without falling off the rim, which would have been impossible on the older style bike tyres we used to get. And the Michelin is stiffer still, so I have high hopes for it. And for that it's a small price to pay that's a bit extra hassle putting MC tyres on with their almost rigid side walls... +1. That's good to know. I had a flat on my T3 with a stock CST bicycle tire, and I couldn't roll it without the tire bead coming off, after I got a flat. In the photo, it looks like you put on a Michelin City Extra. Is the City Extra a tubeless tire? Edited February 6 by techyiam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 (edited) 2 hours ago, techyiam said: In the photo, it looks like you put on a Michelin City Extra. Is the City Extra a tubeless tire? I am latterly told it is, although I didn't know that when I bought it, and I am certainly running mine tubed. I am not sure I trust tubeless setups on Begode wheels with a rim shoulder that rounded and low - I suspect the air seal would become compromised at some point, and I have read a fair few reports of tubeless tyres falling off Begode rims during rides, so generally speaking I am not up for much experimentation in that department ! Edited February 6 by Cerbera 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 52 minutes ago, Cerbera said: I am latterly told it is, although I didn't know that when I bought it, and I am certainly running mine tubed. I am not sure I trust tubeless setups on Begode wheels with a rim shoulder that rounded and low - I suspect the air seal would become compromised at some point, and I have read a fair few reports of tubeless tyres falling off Begode rims during rides, so generally speaking I am not up for much experimentation in that department ! Thanks. I am just looking for confirmation. There should be a label on the sidewall saying that it is tubeless. I am currently looking for a tire for my Abrams, and it needs a tubeless tire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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