Cerbera Posted February 10 Author Share Posted February 10 Thanks dude and interesting to hear about your XP too... I wonder, with hindsight, if mine was so dreadful that first day because of the low low PSI and because the tyre maybe hadn't 'bedded in' / settled yet. It seemed much more planted and less independently-minded today ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Cerbera Posted February 14 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 14 (edited) Day 4 on the new tyre, testing it under wet conditions this time. It's doing very well, and after just under 50 miles I am beginning to get my zen flow back, and was very pleased to report that riding it in the wet is very similar to riding it in the dry - grip remains superb on asphalt, tiled walkways, cycleways, pavements and small bits of woodland floor (no real mud though yet) and it was very grippy. And as promised, the feeling of tippyness round the corners is absent, which is nice, and the railing I was previously feeling is increasingly not there, and surmountable when it is.. I am coming to the conclusion that my default foot position is wrong for this new tyre. The wide flatter centre band on the CST allowed my left foot to stand quite wide on the pad, but on this new tyre that results in left bias and struggle against camber where right lean is required to counter it. If I remember / retrain to tuck that heel in then I feel properly centered on the wheel again. So, just some bad habits to eliminate and some additional surfaces to test (mud / gravel / rocks / grass etc) before I can call this tyre a winner, but it is heading in that direction so far. The only thing I am still finding disconcerting is what happens when we crest around 40 kph, but presumably this is a leg weakness thing like it was when I first went fast on the original tyre, and also the rounder profile seems to make me more susceptible to wind than the CST, not less as I had hoped. I suspect Hou's lower pedal hangers might fix that. Edited February 14 by Cerbera 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punxatawneyjoe Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 2 hours ago, Cerbera said: mud / gravel / rocks / grass etc Steer clear of mud,it's like ice on that tire. Same goes for wet grass and wet leaves on pavement. Glad to hear you are acclimating to the new tire. I stand like this on my v13 .....\ /. I like the front of my foot stance to be wide so i have more control. Thanks for the update. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 11 hours ago, Cerbera said: but on this new tyre that results in left bias and struggle against camber where right lean is required to counter it. Good to hear it's getting there. I remembered a comparison that I hadn't mentioned before - I found the MC tyres (speaking specifically about tramlining) behaved very similar to the Z10. And yes it's something you can kinda get used to but never goes away. I found that even after a couple of thousand miles on the Z the tramlining was the same. Yes I ended up not being so shocked/scared when the wheel pulled me around and I found that the best way to deal with it was to simply not fight it, but it never went away and as such it was a tiring wheel to ride and I never really got relaxed riding it because I was constantly scanning for the next big crack/camber on the surface. Lovely on smooth, non cambered asphalt/concrete though, but then so are all tyres.. Every other 'unusual' or different handling trait from one tyre to another can be re-learnt and mastered by the rider given enough time eg cornering/carving/turning etc but tramlining is something that is inherent to the tyre and as I say can't be 'tamed' or reduced by the rider, all you can do is become 'accustomed' to when it occurs. I'm really not trying to put you off or be negative, I genuinely hope you end up getting along with it, a lot of people do ride with MC tyres (and a lot of people were also able to seriously hustle a Z10 around as well!) but IMO tramlining is a completely separate issue to every other handling trait. I also found this with my MC's - new tyres always felt more 'tippy' and this could be quickly and easily be re-learnt but I never, ever had tramlining except when they were right near the end of wear limits and again they just became a pain to ride with so out they went. In short, no vehicle should tramline because it's an unnerving and specifically, inconsistent trait. Keep us updated though! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 @Planemo What tire are you using now on your EX30? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 21 minutes ago, techyiam said: @Planemo What tire are you using now on your EX30? Kenda 262 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted February 25 Author Share Posted February 25 (edited) On 2/15/2024 at 6:53 AM, Planemo said: Yes I ended up not being so shocked/scared when the wheel pulled me around and I found that the best way to deal with it was to simply not fight it, but it never went away and as such it was a tiring wheel to ride and I never really got relaxed riding it because I was constantly scanning for the next big crack/camber on the surface. Lovely on smooth, non cambered asphalt/concrete though, but then so are all tyres.. Yep, another week on that tyre and I concur ! And yesterday I went down to the lake to see how it fared on shallow damp mud and leaves, wet grass, sand, gravel and woodland floor sort of surfaces. Oh dear oh dear. Slippy slippy slippy everywhere ! The last nail in its coffin is the fact that since I fitted it I have been unable to go over 40 kph - it just feels horribly unstable at faster speeds such that you immediately want to slow down again. So that, in combination with what you said above about the tramlining never going away, means I am gonna take today's rainy, horribly windy day to swap my tyre back to the CST. I gave the City Extra a fair go, and although it became manageable with time, it is not for me. Any advantage that street tyre gives me on pavements and roads (and can't really say I noticed any other than the silence !) is rather negated if it's SO useless for the occasional off-road I want to do. I simply can't give up riding in my 2 favourite local off-road places because that tyre is a damn liability when it leaves asphalt... But, as with all disastrous decisions, there are silver linings. I will be REAL good at tyre changes having done so many in such a short space of time ! Edited February 25 by Cerbera 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goatman Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 the cst knobby is my favorite tire that does everything, the sherman/kenda knobby i hated and the ribs on inside sidewalls gave me a flat by rubbing a hole in the tube. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted February 26 Author Share Posted February 26 (edited) Note to future self / documenting the little victories etc.... Last night I surprised myself by managing do the last bit of the swap-back - getting the outer tyre back over the rim once the inner is seated without any irons, or tools at all, just using the 'opposite side to rim centre' method ! Amazing - No lube or talc required, no risk of pinching apparently* ! *Might have slightly dislocated my thumbs doing it, and worn all the fingerprints off most of my fingers, but hey ho... next time - nitrile gloves !! Now, in unrelated news - Michelin City Xtra 80-90-2.75 for sale nice and cheap, 1 careful owner, would not recommend, lols ! Edited February 26 by Cerbera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 On 2/25/2024 at 12:22 PM, Cerbera said: Oh dear oh dear. Slippy slippy slippy everywhere ! The last nail in its coffin is the fact that since I fitted it I have been unable to go over 40 kph - it just feels horribly unstable at faster speeds such that you immediately want to slow down again. Oh dear! Welcome back to the dark side Yeah the street tyres are sketchy on anything other than asphalt, try riding a streetbike on grass! You want to be gentle on the controls and keeping it upright for sure! Like you I rarely venture off-road but we do gravel trails and stuff occasionally and so the knobby is just much more reassuring to know it's under me when I need it. As you say the benefits of street tyres just become smaller and smaller if you're not a real hard street rider (which I'm not). It's not even like I feel any lack of grip on the knobby when carving on asphalt either. 14 minutes ago, Cerbera said: Last night I surprised myself by managing do the last bit of the swap-back - getting the outer tyre back over the rim once the inner is seated without any irons, or tools at all, just using the 'opposite side to rim centre' method ! Amazing - No lube or talc required, no risk of pinching apparently* ! Yeah often you can get tyres on without irons but usually you need one or two just to start when taking them off. But for sure the trick is all in getting the tyre beads into the centre of the rim, get that bit sorted and they are easy. It's surprising how many people really struggle with them, busting tubes up and all sorts. I don't use any lube/talc either. Centering is easy too, none of this pump up, let down, massage, pump up repeat etc. I just centre the tyre immediately after fitting, adding just enough air (not even 1psi) to fill the tube out and allow me to move the tyre around with a little knock without it being floppy on the rim. Using the tyre moulding line as a guide I then measure the distance to the rim at 4 points and once done just pump it up. The tyre should remain in the same place if you had enough air to start with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted February 28 Author Share Posted February 28 (edited) All hail the mighty CST - did my first ride out on that today (in the pissing rain no less!), was relieved to find my muscle set instantly reacclimatised and I was short-cut right back up to Grade 6+ and I had the first utterly stress-free ride for about 3 weeks ! SO nice to be back on that predictable, non-tramlining, balanced, grippy, camber-dominating, rugged little tyre Sorry I ever doubted you ! Slight weirdness though - last time I had this CST on, with its original tube - I found 12-15 PSI was the right level for the most comfortable and controllable ride-feel,and the tyre walls used to feel very firm even with PSI that low. But when I tried that on the new inner tube that felt far too squishy, so new standard is 25 PSI, which gives me the same ride feeling I had on nearer 10 PSI before. Not sure I can explain that ! Edited February 28 by Cerbera 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcatraz Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 Cst is silently "upgrading" several tubed models to tubeless. That OR they come in tubed and tubeless versions without different model numbers. It was a pain for me to find the tubed version of a tire I wanted. I like flexible sidewalls so I go for the tubed versions. If you can't see the label then look at the bead. The tubeless versions are smooth and the tubed version for me had a ribbed type washboard bead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 (edited) Thanks to a fellow rider, I had an opportunity to get an initial impression of a Master. The Master has a tippy trait that is unsettling for me since I am not used to it. I have heard of this before, but I just didn't know to what extent. It is kind of like my V12 when inflated with a high tire pressure, and with a high pedal height. I am not used to this ride dynamics. My V12 is tuned to a more natural and better balanced feel through tire choice and tire pressure. I think now I have a little better appreciation as to what @Cerbera was talking about regarding the street tire that he tried on his Master. For me, the Patton, Lynx, S22 and S19 have a more neutral and better balance feeling out-of-the-box. Edited March 31 by techyiam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted March 31 Author Share Posted March 31 (edited) 2 hours ago, techyiam said: The Master has a tippy trait that is unsettling for me since I am not used to it. Yep, it was the one wheel they made with such high pedals and an equally high centre of mass, and they rectified it in the very next model the EX-30, and in all their wheels since. In some ways I wish I had waited for that one, but I am fully used to the Master now, and have come to love it for what it is, and begrudgingly accept that extra windy days are ones I should probably skip ! Edited March 31 by Cerbera 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 (edited) 1 hour ago, Cerbera said: ... they rectified it in the very next model the EX-30, and in all their wheels since. In some ways I wish I had waited for that one, but I am fully used to the Master now Incidentally, I got a chance to ride an EX30 too but with a 2.75-14 Duro knobby tire, without rim spacers. I really like the ride dynamics of this EX30. My reaction was the opposite to my first EX30 experience, which had a street tire on. I couldn't ride it at all. But with the Duro tire, it was trannsformed. Having said that though, for me, because I am not used to riding the EX30, it has a stabilizing inertia which comes into play during cornering at higher speeds, which I am not used to. So it will take some time for me to acclimate to. I think should I buy one, I would need to figure out what the best cornering technique would be to use on this wheel, and perhaps build up some strength in some core areas. I think it would be worthwhile since I believe it will give me the edge in stability I seek without going up to a 22" wheel, which would be more cumbersome wheel to ride. For the most part, because the tire profile is the right one, the wheel felt balanced and neutral. What a delightful wheel to ride. Although, the Master has a tipsy feel to it, its riding dynamics is very light and nimble. Since it is a powerful wheel too, the Master has quite a unique combination for those who seek it. For me, the wheels that I consider to have neutral riding dynamics are wheels such as the Patton, Lynx, S22/Pro, and S19. I would say the EX30 shod with a Duro knobby to have some "big wheel" feel to it but is still quite responsive and nimble. Edited March 31 by techyiam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradox Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 8 hours ago, techyiam said: Incidentally, I got a chance to ride an EX30 too but with a 2.75-14 Duro knobby tire, without rim spacers. Try one with the spacers and a knobby. I put the spacers on my Ex30 with the Cst stock knobby and it makes is a much better wheel to ride for me. It is easier to lean into turns. The wheel no longer fights me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 Last time, I got a chance to ride a Master V1 or V2. Shod with a street tire. This time, I got a chance to try out a Master V3, or V4. This Master has a Shinko 244 dual-purpose tire. I primarily ride a V12, S22, and an Abrams. With this biased background, I was indifferent, to not to my liking with the first Master that I test rode. Surprisingly, this second Master rode much more to my liking. Its riding dynamics was quite neutral. It didn't feel tippy (maybe due to tire profile?). Moreover, it felt more solid, and was responsive in acceleration and braking. It seemed more refined too. I didn't measure the pedal height, but I didn't think the pedal height was lower on this second Master. For my use case, which is city commuting, I can't say my S22 is a better riding wheel then this second Master, suspension aside. I can't say too much about the suspension because I didn't venture out on the streets to ride over bumps. Before this second Master experience, the Master was off the table for me for my next wheel. Now, all bets are off. I need to look further to see whether the Master V4 should be considered too. I did see a video in which Johnny Go Vroom said the Master V3, V4, are better wheels than the V1, and V2's. I just assumed it would be just a minor improvement. Now I am not so sure. The second Master did ride very well for me. In comparison, the Lynx has the butter smooth suspension, Smart BMS, better waterproofing, and tougher crash protection. But the Lynx also cost a bunch more. For someone looking for a 20" suspension wheel with 4P battery configuration, better value or a lower price point, the Master may fit the bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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