Veteran Patton 16" 126v 2220wh

[Rawnei]

10 minutes ago, carlitos said:

Help! My Patton arrived a few hours ago and I just took it for a spin around the block and there is a noise but I can't figure out where it's coming from. Can't be heard while free spinning. Only when riding it. The faster I go the more frequent.

It's the 66LB version and I weight about 75Kg last time I checked.

If anybody can give any pointers as to where to check or what to wiggle, that would be awesome.

 

Haven't heard this one before, usually misaligned bearings have more of a knocking sound and it doesn't sound like rubbing, valve stem like @Paradox suggested maybe? Very difficult to guess.

[jimjam.nyc]

11 minutes ago, carlitos said:

Help! My Patton arrived a few hours ago and I just took it for a spin around the block and there is a noise but I can't figure out where it's coming from. Can't be heard while free spinning. Only when riding it. The faster I go the more frequent.

It's the 66LB version and I weight about 75Kg last time I checked.

If anybody can give any pointers as to where to check or what to wiggle, that would be awesome.

It oddly does sound like valve stem.. But i feel like you would hear that on free spin too. Plus you would feel lit when you trolly the wheel.

Is there alot of play back and forth when you go from going fwd to back? Like if you try to rock the wheel back and forth, do you have alot of play inbetween? if so You may have lose axl/motor bolts. I am not sure if that would make noise like this or not.

[carlitos]

19 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said:

Is there alot of play back and forth when you go from going fwd to back? Like if you try to rock the wheel back and forth, do you have alot of play inbetween? if so You may have lose axl/motor bolts. I am not sure if that would make noise like this or not.

No play at all. I have seen the video from WW where you see the play you're talking about.

 

27 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

Haven't heard this one before, usually misaligned bearings have more of a knocking sound and it doesn't sound like rubbing, valve stem like @Paradox suggested maybe? Very difficult to guess.

How can I check this?

[OliG]

54 minutes ago, carlitos said:

Help! My Patton arrived a few hours ago and I just took it for a spin around the block and there is a noise but I can't figure out where it's coming from. Can't be heard while free spinning. Only when riding it. The faster I go the more frequent.

It's the 66LB version and I weight about 75Kg last time I checked.

If anybody can give any pointers as to where to check or what to wiggle, that would be awesome.

 

It could be the mudguard rubbing when the suspension is compressed, if it's misaligned on the rear, for example. Have you checked?
 

Also check the tire pressure. 

 

Other possibility as said, the valve stem. Check if it’s aligned with motor cover

Edited August 17, 2023 by OliG

[carlitos]

1 hour ago, OliG said:

It could be the mudguard rubbing when the suspension is compressed, if it's misaligned on the rear, for example. Have you checked?
 

Also check the tire pressure. 

 

Other possibility as said, the valve stem. Check if it’s aligned with motor cover

Tire pressure seems fine. Came quite inflated from factory.

The mudguard doesn't seem a 100% aligned but it's hard to judge. It can be wiggled about a little bit. Not sure if that is normal.

There are also these hairs on the new tire. Perhaps some of them are rubbing on the mudguard once I step on the wheel, as the tire probably flattens a bit.

It's late here so this will have to wait until tomorrow.

Say a prayer for me, please.

I'm attaching a couple of pics and a video.

 

[travsformation]

12 hours ago, Rawnei said:

I would go with the 66lb variant, with no preload it will probably be pretty spot on.

11 hours ago, OliG said:

Same advice as @Rawnei, you should go for the 66 lbs. 

11 hours ago, jimjam.nyc said:

I think the general consensus from many at this point is if you are riding trails at all, get the heavier spring.

Thanks, guys!!! 

The 66 lb it is, then!

11 hours ago, jimjam.nyc said:

I think its important to consider your use case more than your weight when it comes to choosing the suspension you want.

 Good point! 👍

Really looking forward to getting this wheel. On the other hand, I usually wait a good couple or three batches (seems like it should be more like 1/2 dozen these days though 😆) before buying a new wheel, but in this case, if I order now I'm able to get it in early September, so I'll be able to get some riding in before the autumn chill sets in, so I'm willing to take the risk. 

In terms of QC, anything in particular I should be aware of? 

From what I've read, known issues have been (although some might be limited to demo wheels) the suspension oil leak, loose bolts (& motor bolts), and issues when hard braking. The Patton shipment eWheels will be receiving in early September have a BMS upgrade to fix the latter issue. 

I really wish every seller went through a complete a thorough QC like eWheels do!

Edited August 18, 2023 by travsformation

[OliG]

16 minutes ago, carlitos said:

Tire pressure seems fine. Came quite inflated from factory.

The mudguard doesn't seem a 100% aligned but it's hard to judge. It can be wiggled about a little bit. Not sure if that is normal.

There are also these hairs on the new tire. Perhaps some of them are rubbing on the mudguard once I step on the wheel, as the tire probably flattens a bit.

It's late here so this will have to wait until tomorrow.

Say a prayer for me, please.

I'm attaching a couple of pics and a video.

 

Check the tire pressure and if needed inflate the tire to be above 2.3 bars. 
 

Your mudguard seems quite close to the tire in particular at the back but it could be the picture. Check mine. Sorry not my best picture 😝. 
 

The fact that the mudguard can be wiggled is normal. 

[Rawnei]

23 minutes ago, carlitos said:

Tire pressure seems fine. Came quite inflated from factory.

The mudguard doesn't seem a 100% aligned but it's hard to judge. It can be wiggled about a little bit. Not sure if that is normal.

There are also these hairs on the new tire. Perhaps some of them are rubbing on the mudguard once I step on the wheel, as the tire probably flattens a bit.

It's late here so this will have to wait until tomorrow.

Say a prayer for me, please.

I'm attaching a couple of pics a

Those hairs definitively make a sound (I removed mine) but not like that in the video.

11 minutes ago, travsformation said:

Thanks, guys!!! 

The 66 lb it is, then!

 Good point! 👍

Really looking forward to getting this wheel. On the other hand, I usually wait a good couple or three batches (seems like it should be more like 1/2 dozen these days though 😆) before buying a new wheel, but in this case, if I order now (MyEwheel) I'm able to get it in early September, so I'll be able to get some riding in before the autumn chill sets in, so I'm willing to take the risk. 

In terms of QC, anything in particular I should be aware of? 

From what I've read, known issues have been (although some might be limited to demo wheels) the suspension oil leak, loose bolts (& motor bolts), and issues when hard braking. The Patton shipment eWheels will be receiving in early September have a BMS upgrade to fix the latter issue; I'm wondering if the shipment MyEwheel is due to receive at the end of this month is the same batch. 

I really wish every seller went through a complete a thorough QC like eWheels do, it would really give me a lot more peace of mind

Suspension leakage is very likely QC issue at fastace, not installing seals correctly in factory, will be very noticeable as there will be oil everywhere. Motor bolts we don't know why some broke, could be poor torquing, lack of loctite or too weak screws, I swapped mine to 12.9 grade steel and torqued to spec just in case.

BMS upgrade to fix an issue? First I've heard of this, do you have details?

[OliG]

10 minutes ago, travsformation said:

Thanks, guys!!! 

The 66 lb it is, then!

 Good point! 👍

Really looking forward to getting this wheel. On the other hand, I usually wait a good couple or three batches (seems like it should be more like 1/2 dozen these days though 😆) before buying a new wheel, but in this case, if I order now (MyEwheel) I'm able to get it in early September, so I'll be able to get some riding in before the autumn chill sets in, so I'm willing to take the risk. 

In terms of QC, anything in particular I should be aware of? 

From what I've read, known issues have been (although some might be limited to demo wheels) the suspension oil leak, loose bolts (& motor bolts), and issues when hard braking. The Patton shipment eWheels will be receiving in early September have a BMS upgrade to fix the latter issue; I'm wondering if the shipment MyEwheel is due to receive at the end of this month is the same batch. 

I really wish every seller went through a complete a thorough QC like eWheels do, it would really give me a lot more peace of mind

Same wish for me if seller could systematically do a full QC before sending the wheel to customers. But I’m afraid it will not happen soon, mainly for cost reason, at least in France. 
 

I was not aware of the last issue requesting a bms upgrade. 

Best advice, if you plan to order to Myewheel, ask them if their shipment includes that bms upgrade before ordering. You could also ask them for a specific QC check before they send you the wheel. 
 

Mine had the loose bolt issue and wrong buttons (twice power and light button).
Hopefully my Patton came by plane (very early batch, I know that’s bad) but I know the seller so I had a special QC check when they mount the batteries before they sent me the wheel 😁. 
 

[travsformation]

6 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

Suspension leakage is very likely QC issue at fastace, not installing seals correctly in factory, will be very noticeable as there will be oil everywhere.

Probably a bad batch then, I don't reckon it'll be all that widespread (and among multiple batches either). Fingers crossed! 

7 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

Motor bolts we don't know why some broke, could be poor torquing, lack of loctite or too weak screws, I swapped mine to 12.9 grade steel and torqued to spec just in case.

Yeah, sounds like it could be any of the above...

Good thinking on the metal bolts! They bolt into steel too right?

20 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

BMS upgrade to fix an issue? First I've heard of this, do you have details?

From an email from eWheels: "The next round of Pattons also have the BMS upgrade, to fix the controller issues when hard braking." That's all they said. 

Couldn't something like that be addressed with a SW update though?

[DjPanJan]

Someone try charge patton 15A.?

10Amp + orig. charger 5A 

Anyway this hiden charging port is almost imposible for me to conect i need turn light on phone to make port visible to sucesfull conect.My hands is too big or ruber cover block easy conection im carefuly to avoid rotating or bending pins in patton look so small.

I trying now 33Psi still cant turn on 2m radius someting is wrong with me and ballance on patton i dont know why. 36PSI too hard  bouncy and scary or i am just bad rider 

Inner tire valve + black cap is very close to case i never see this on any other my euc around 5-7mm is propably ok i have small paranoia some long grass or wild raspberry
sucker etc stretch iner tube valve and cut. 

My patton comes with newest FW upgrade (by eucworld) i dont know nothing about BMS ubgrade. where i can find bms info if is possible?

 

[OliG]

4 minutes ago, travsformation said:

 

From an email from eWheels: "The next round of Pattons also have the BMS upgrade, to fix the controller issues when hard braking." That's all they said. 

 

Probably the issue experienced by WrongWay during a hard braking when he rode in Paris on Myewheel pre-prod Patton. He explained that in one of his video. I think it’s that one: 

 

[carlitos]

41 minutes ago, OliG said:

Check the tire pressure and if needed inflate the tire to be above 2.3 bars. 
 

Your mudguard seems quite close to the tire in particular at the back but it could be the picture. Check mine. Sorry not my best picture 😝. 
 

The fact that the mudguard can be wiggled is normal. 

Do you have a picture from a lower angle so that we can see how close the mudguard is to the tire?

I will check the pressure tomorrow.

36 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

Those hairs definitively make a sound (I removed mine) but not like that in the video.

I removed all the hairs and went for another ride. The noise was gone and I was happy, until the noise came back. I tried as hard as I could to align the rear mudguard while riding and, apart from drifting from side to side on the road, I was able to get rid of the noise briefly. So I'm 99% sure that it's the rear mudguard that is misaligned / too close to the wheel. I think the noise had gone away from me wiggling the mudguard during the recording of the video and after riding for a bit it went back to its original position.

Gonna have to check that video where they take the wheel apart to figure out how to align it properly.

Small annoyance but an annoyance nonetheless.

[Rawnei]

53 minutes ago, DjPanJan said:

Someone try charge patton 15A.?

10Amp + orig. charger 5A 

Anyway this hiden charging port is almost imposible for me to conect i need turn light on phone to make port visible to sucesfull conect.My hands is too big or ruber cover block easy conection im carefuly to avoid rotating or bending pins in patton look so small.

I trying now 33Psi still cant turn on 2m radius someting is wrong with me and ballance on patton i dont know why. 36PSI too hard  bouncy and scary or i am just bad rider 

Inner tire valve + black cap is very close to case i never see this on any other my euc around 5-7mm is propably ok i have small paranoia some long grass or wild raspberry
sucker etc stretch iner tube valve and cut. 

My patton comes with newest FW upgrade (by eucworld) i dont know nothing about BMS ubgrade. where i can find bms info if is possible?

 

If you can get someone to print this for you it makes it easier to connect the charging cable:

https://www.printables.com/model/529780-leaperkim-patton-and-sherman-plug-grip

[Rawnei]

1 hour ago, travsformation said:

From an email from eWheels: "The next round of Pattons also have the BMS upgrade, to fix the controller issues when hard braking." That's all they said.

That's odd, could you ask them to elaborate?

I haven't heard of any BMS issue on forums, Telegram or Facebook.

[jimjam.nyc]

2 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

That's odd, could you ask them to elaborate?

I haven't heard of any BMS issue on forums, Telegram or Facebook.

The only thing I have really "heard" was maybe the sort of normal overcharging if heavy breaking on full battery. Maybe they are putting in better protection for that?

[travsformation]

1 hour ago, Rawnei said:

That's odd, could you ask them to elaborate?

1 hour ago, jimjam.nyc said:

The only thing I have really "heard" was maybe the sort of normal overcharging if heavy breaking on full battery. Maybe they are putting in better protection for that?

Indeed (just received this from eWheels):

 

They also discuss implementing a software fix, which is still pending:

You can download the full QC report here (I have their permission to share this--love how transparent they are! I guess that comes with knowing you're doing things right)

 

 

[Paradox]

57 minutes ago, travsformation said:

Indeed (just received this from eWheels):

 

They also discuss implementing a software fix, which is still pending:

You can download the full QC report here (I have their permission to share this--love how transparent they are! I guess that comes with knowing you're doing things right)

 

 

Does this create an unseen problem? Sending current into a possibly fully charged battery?

 

Edited August 18, 2023 by Paradox

[jimjam.nyc]

36 minutes ago, Paradox said:

Does this create an unseen problem? Sending current into a possibly fully charged battery?

 

I thought that too. But I guess it can't put back more than it took out, so maybe there is no danger? I have no idea how that works...

Either way I would think this issue should be somewhat rare. I guess here is to hoping their software fix works and comes out soon.

 

[Paradox]

5 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said:

I thought that too. But I guess it can't put back more than it took out, so maybe there is no danger? I have no idea how that works...

Either way I would think this issue should be somewhat rare. I guess here is to hoping their software fix works and comes out soon.

 

The hard braking on a full battery will add more than has been used.  Potentially harming cells.  I may be wrong but this might be a reason Begode chooses to stop charging below full to allow for some headroom. 

Edited August 18, 2023 by Paradox

[stizl]

1 hour ago, Paradox said:

The hard braking on a full battery will add more than has been used.  Potentially harming cells.  I may be wrong but this might be a reason Begode chooses to stop charging below full to allow for some headroom. 

Assuming that you didn't get up to speed on flat ground then brake (in which case @jimjam.nyc's comment about putting more in than taken out would apply), but instead you started from full charge at the top of a hill and had to brake down the hill, then you'd potentially have an overcharge condition.  Practically, this would have to be a significant hill to really cause a problem with a well-designed system. 

Proper calculations would factor in potential energy gain from descending the hill (gravity), minus energy used for balancing, controls, display, lighting, friction losses, etc., but a rough back-of-the-envelope example may suffice.  There are many ways to approach this, but using Amp-hrs here (a unit of charge), as many of us have probably seen the "max current" value on the EUC World, Darkness Bot, or manufacturer's app after a ride. 

For the Patton with 120 (4p x 30s) 50E cells with ~5 Amp-hrs each (or 5,000 mAh), the total available charge is 120x5Ah or 600 Amp-hrs.  If you braked hard (50Amp rate) continuously for 10 seconds (and assume for the sake of argument that the regenerative braking was 100% efficient), then you would be braking for 10sec / [(60sec/min)*(60min/hr)] or 1/360th of an hour.  50Amp*hr/360 = 0.14Ah, which would produce (0.14Ah charge /600Ah capacity) 0.02% overcharge...which is likely negligible on the batteries for the brief period of time before you use that energy the next moment when you accelerate.  Unless you live on top of a mountain, this should be a non-issue. 

These controller board failures are from the design flaw of sending that 50A into the controller instead of the batteries.  The controller has no means of dissipating that much energy.  If the energy has to go somewhere, the batteries are a much better place than the controller, unless the controller is specifically designed to dissipate that energy via a heat sink, which would have to be enormous to continuously sink 50A.  On the other hand, it would make a great toaster. 

Edited August 18, 2023 by stizl

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, stizl said:

These controller board failures are from the design flaw of sending that 50A into the controller instead of the batteries.  The controller has no means of dissipating that much energy.  If the energy has to go somewhere, the batteries are a much better place than the controller, unless the controller is specifically designed to dissipate that energy via a heat sink, which would have to be enormous to continuously sink 50A.  On the other hand, it would make a great toaster. 

The best is not to generate the excessive electrical energy in the first place, since there is no load to accept it, due to the fact the battery is already fully charged. In order to generate high braking torque, you also need to dump high current onto a load (in this case nothing was available, since the only thing available was the battery and it was fully charged and protected). In order to push high current into a fully charged battery, wouldn't that imply it need to go over voltage?

The best situation is for the rider not put himself or herself in this scenario in the first place.

It was rider error. IMO, Wrongway should have taken full responsibility, instead of weakly taking blame, and sending a misleading message. He fried the controller board. Open and shut case. Because the battery was protected, in the future, there will be less of a chance for it to start a fire.

Manufacturers can't win. If they prevent the battery from being fully charged to the hilt during a recharging cycle, some owners will even bypass safety measures in order to do so. Manufacturers try to protect the battery, but riders will always find ways to abuse the wheel until something fails, and then blame the manufacturers.

Edited August 18, 2023 by techyiam

[Freeforester]

19 hours ago, travsformation said:

So I'm by no means an extreme rider (nothing Chooch-style—think of me more as a more aggressive Marty Backe). 🤣

Er, something like between NYC jungle-style and this then?

 

[Freeforester]

12 hours ago, carlitos said:

Help! My Patton arrived a few hours ago and I just took it for a spin around the block and there is a noise but I can't figure out where it's coming from. Can't be heard while free spinning. Only when riding it. The faster I go the more frequent.

It's the 66LB version and I weight about 75Kg last time I checked.

If anybody can give any pointers as to where to check or what to wiggle, that would be awesome.

 

Check the motor casing to determine whether it is somehow rubbing on something internally, like the inside face of a slightly misaligned battery pack or one which has a poorly fitted back side (idk if this is even a possibility on the Patton, but it did occur on a very few ‘S’ models). If there isn’t any sign, good, but it sounds very much like a slight misalignment of the wheel resulting in either the tyre valve coming into contact with the inner surface,  this apparently only becomes audibly noticeable once rider weight is applied. Kevin at EUC UPGRADES made a video about it (pertaining to my own ‘S’) - turned out to be an easy fix. Incidentally, I did the same as you, removed the tyre moulding hairs, but also to no efffect, but if you listen again to the video it is definitely a cyclical, contact-upon-revolution type of issue, something is making contact at a certain point. Idk if Kevin shimmed one side of the motor, but a call to him via E-rides might help. He knows the fix. 👍🏻

Edited August 18, 2023 by Freeforester

[Freeforester]

5 hours ago, Paradox said:

The hard braking on a full battery will add more than has been used.  Potentially harming cells.  I may be wrong but this might be a reason Begode chooses to stop charging below full to allow for some headroom. 

Moral of story - Ride it, don’t ‘Stride’ it!