Veteran Patton 16" 126v 2220wh

[mrelwood]

4 hours ago, unicycle bunny said:

mine is 129.4

That sounds a bit bad. Multimeters are rarely that much off.

[Hellkitten]

 

[Paradox]

In the video they gloss over a problem.  The batteries were coming out of the bottom?  Video is time stamped.

https://youtu.be/ce1hFvy2i2o?t=1045

 

[Poker]

If I'm guessing its the same thing that happened a few pages back in this thread where the battery pack comes loose inside the casing and impacts the bottom plate real hard during jumps.

Quite a few people have talked about packing something inside there between the bottom floor and the battery pack to solve it.

[Rawnei]

My theory is that battery was loose in there moving around (other early wheel testers reported the same thing where battery was missing necessary padding and moving around in the battery compartment) and eventually that just cracked the bottom from all that jumping, if so it's most likely a QC issue and/or fixed in factory already.

1 minute ago, Poker said:

If I'm guessing its the same thing that happened a few pages back in this thread where the battery pack comes loose inside the casing and impacts the bottom plate real hard during jumps.

Quite a few people have talked about packing something inside there between the bottom floor and the battery pack to solve it.

It's the same wheel. 😁

[Poker]

 

2 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

 

It's the same wheel. 😁

LOL, I forgot

[Critzlez]

On 7/14/2023 at 4:56 AM, Rollin-on-1 said:

They are very brittle and have lots of cracks running through them.  Prior to taking it apart, I had sat on it for about 10 min during a mid-ride rest stop.  I wonder if that stressed it and I just didn't notice?

Mine did this but I had silicone sealant on them that may have caused it. Still, i don't think they should be doing that

[Rollin-on-1]

21 minutes ago, Critzlez said:

Mine did this but I had silicone sealant on them that may have caused it. Still, i don't think they should be doing that

I am fairly convinced that the battery cables pushed up on the top cover.  As I star pattern tightened things, I think the top cover lifted and then when I pushed it back down it may have caught the screw threads and cracked them.  I really don't think the little bit of loctite that I put on the threads could have caused it. 

I have a replacement cover, but I haven't installed it yet.  I'm def going to be even more cautious when putting it on this time.  And I won't be using loctite on the threads.  

Edited July 27, 2023 by Rollin-on-1

[OliG]

2 hours ago, Critzlez said:

Mine did this but I had silicone sealant on them that may have caused it. Still, i don't think they should be doing that

On the same kind of topic, after my roadtrip last week I was cleaning my Patton yesterday and saw that a small peace of plastic was broken on one of the backlight screw hole (see pictures). 
 

No real impact as the backlight is strongly fixed with 4 screws and it’s a light part. But it means you have to be careful when you use these big metal screws with weak plastic parts. 
 

I put it back with super glue. Not sure it was the best idea but at least nothing moves and it will not be a big issue if I have to replace the backlight if it breaks the next time the wheel is disassembled

[Rawnei]

Yeah, always gotta take care when torquing screws in plastic, this was a really annoying problem on the Master.

[Critzlez]

Here's a picture of my issue. Looks like the plastic they use is just too brittle.

[Rawnei]

59 minutes ago, Critzlez said:

Here's a picture of my issue. Looks like the plastic they use is just too brittle.

Looks abnormal, like chemical decomposition, the white color reminds me of loctite when dried.

Just looked at mine it looks ok no cracks or anything like that.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Rawnei

[Critzlez]

22 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

Looks abnormal, like chemical decomposition, the white color reminds me of loctite when dried.

Just looked at mine it looks ok no cracks or anything like that.

I used silicone sealant, the acidic cure one. Supposed to be fine with plastic; It didn't cause any cracks around the edge of the plastic top, nor on the controller housing too. Only this specific part became brittle.

Pro tip: Don't use acidic (acetoxy) cure silicone sealant near the electronics as it can possibly corrode. Use neutral cure. It'll specifically say "neutral cure" in the description. acidic cure smells like vinegar

Edited July 27, 2023 by Critzlez

[Rawnei]

2 hours ago, Critzlez said:

I used silicone sealant, the acidic cure one. Supposed to be fine with plastic; It didn't cause any cracks around the edge of the plastic top, nor on the controller housing too. Only this specific part became brittle.

Pro tip: Don't use acidic (acetoxy) cure silicone sealant near the electronics as it can possibly corrode. Use neutral cure. It'll specifically say "neutral cure" in the description. acidic cure smells like vinegar

One trick is to use loctite on the screw, screw it in without the plastic, let it cure to create that extra layer of gunk then remove and screw it in properly.

But this particular part I don't think needs loctite, it's screwed form above and have spacers and lockspacer so I don't think it will come loose that easily.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Rawnei

[Rawnei]

So I got my Patton 66lb this Monday, I've ridden it about 4 times now, very fun, powerful and zippy wheel, it feels a bit like a smaller variant of Sherman S.

 

First riding impression:

You can feel the torque, it just want's to go, riding more carefully in the beginning to acclimate to the wheel but it feels fast, for some reason this wheel feels like you're riding faster than you are, on third ride I hit 62kmh and triggered 80% PWM alarm (I'm a heavy rider so lighter riders will get higher speeds).

It feels more playful than my Sherman S (not that the Sherman S lacks in that regard), I think it will be a nice compliment to the Sherman S.

 

PWM Based Tiltback:

Testing Tiltback at low speed (30% PWM setting) it's serviceable but a bit uncomfortable and not as smooth and responsive as Begode Custom Firmware one, later setting it to 76% PWM it was difficult to feel it at high speed and I had to rely on my 80% EUC World PWM alert, I will try 70% PWM value on the tiltback instead and see if it matches my PWM alert better or if it's just difficult to feel it at higher speeds. Definitely room for improvement by LeaperKim here though.

 

Suspension:

Very similar to Sherman S, same plush feeling, the 1cm shorter travel is not really noticed at least not right now, I still have not done technical off-road.

Weighing in around 105kg with gear I have to set full preload on the 66lb variant to get my desired sag which will then be between 25-30%, full preload vs no preload is night and day how the suspension feels because I loose so much travel otherwise, much more enjoyable with correct sag settings.

 

Service:

So I wanted to disassemble my Patton early on to check and do some things:

• Swap motor screws to 12.9 steel grade (and rust proofing them with Corrosion X Heavy Duty)
• Swap oil seals in shocks to SKF Showa (same as I did on my Sherman S, great upgrade)
• Investigate strange clonking sound
• General checkup and learn how to disassemble the wheel

Overall the Sherman S is faster to work on than the Patton, there are many screws on the Patton which take a lot more time and it's a bit fiddly, it's not very difficult but a bit time consuming.

My torque specs for the most important screws:

• Motor Screws 18Nm - Same as Sherman S
• Battery to Suspension Screws (Short black ones) 11Nm - Same as Sherman S
• Suspension Clamp Screws 8Nm - Same as Sherman S
• Top to Battery Screws 8Nm - this worked fine until one of the very last screws which sadly de-threaded (the curse of soft aluminium), so maybe the safe route would be 7Nm, I didn't want to torque these by hand as they seem pretty important holding the batteries and all.

LK Improved Waterproofing:

It appears that LeaperKim has improved the waterproofing on top of the batteries, it has a very well fit rubber seal/block at the top now under the rubber seal, I think it will take a lot of water to get in there, first have to go through the top plastic, then first rubber seal then second rubber seal, not impossible but also not likely.

 

Annoying Holes:

I don't know what it is with LeaperKim and their affinity for putting holes in dumb places, like the fender on the Sherman S and the plastic holder for the fenders on both the Sherman S and Patton, I can see no use for these holes and only allows mud and dirt to easily get into the suspension so I covered them up, same as I did on the Sherman S.

Before you say it's for dirt to get out please observe that they stop way above the bottom where dirt would instead pile up.

By all means the area around the suspension is still open and dirt can get in as well as out even if you cover these holes but oh boy I rather not have a bunch of gunk spray right into the suspension from the motor.

Before:

After:

Cable side:

This doesn't affect suspension, no moving parts will touch the tape. 👍

 

Motor screws:

I wanted to swap motor screws to strong steel grade 12.9 screws, having heard the horror stories of snapped screws it was high priority, I did exactly the same on my Sherman S, no spacers or lockrings, only the screw and blue Loctite, after 1000km inspection on Sherman S they were still tight.

The screw specification is M6x20mm, avoid 25mm I measured the inside and 25mm would be a very tight fit and possibly cause problems like de-threading.

Since I choose to use steel screws they will be prone to rust so I protected them after installation with Corrosion X heavy duty spray, I don't plan to ride the wheel in winter period when there's salt, if I do I will inspect it at some point but Corrosion X is supposed to be really good protection.

Here are the factory screws, a bit unclear of they had Loctite or not, at least no blue color on them, most of them were pretty tightly torqued but a couple was more loose than the others.

 

Swapping oil seals:

I put the same SKF Showa seals that I put in my Sherman S which I wrote about here:

They have less stiction and longer lifespan so a worthwhile upgrade for me, I also swapped oil to 5w fork oil, 130ml according to LeaperKim video.

 

Weird Clonking Sound:

I had an easily reproducible clonking sound when going up steep obstacles such as a high curb or a rock and similar things, it didn't sound "normal" to me and I suspected something was wrong, my first suspicion pointed me in the direction of the batteries due to what happened to the demo wheel and other early adopters reporting loose batteries inside the battery case.

While not having test ridden enough to see that the problem is completely gone the batteries were indeed loose in there, specifically the front right battery (same as the demo wheel that broke go figure), if taking the battery box in hand and shaking it a bit upside down the battery moved with ease in there.

Possible that other forum users that reported weird clonking sound have the same issue.

My solution was to put a couple of layers of neoprene at the bottom to act as a cushion, I had a roll of soft neoprene at home which I folded 4 times to create the cushion:

The purpose of the cushion is twofold, both to soften any impact but also remove open space in the compartment so that the battery wouldn't move around in the first place.

 

Hidden Problem fixed - Deadzone/Slop in the middle of motor

So prior to doing my service I noticed a slop/deadzone in the middle of my wheel, it was mostly noticeable when rocking the wheel by hand, other local Patton owners reports the same thing, it was a bit annoying but not super bad, well it turns out the problem is gone now after doing my service, it's possible that it's related to swapping motor screws (due to not all of them being super tight) but I can only speculate about that.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Rawnei

[OliG]

Many thanks @Rawnei this is very interesting. 
 

Great checklist to keep for next service of my Patton !

Edited July 27, 2023 by OliG

[fbhb]

Excellent information/write-up @Rawnei and this will no doubt be of great help to other Patton owners in the community.

[Rawnei]

Just came home from a 25km ride with some technical off-road and dirt jumping, no more clonk sound, it's gone, 100% the batteries clonking, suspension feels even more amazing now with SKF seals.

Wheel is 👌

Going up hills is truly effortless.

Titlback observation:

I changed tiltback to 70% PWM and tried to push my wheel on a straight, I hit about 60kmh but never hit my 80% PWM alarm (my max PWM was 78%), I think the tiltback is there, it's subtle, I can barely feel it when I'm pushing but it's working as in it increases how much intent I need to push through it so I guess it does what it supposed to and stops you from pushing too hard. I think my sweet spot might be around 72-74% PWM tiltback setting.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Rawnei

[Critzlez]

4 hours ago, Rawnei said:

So I got my Patton 66lb this Monday, I've ridden it about 4 times now, very fun, powerful and zippy wheel, it feels a bit like a smaller variant of Sherman S.

 

First riding impression:

You can feel the torque, it just want's to go, riding more carefully in the beginning to acclimate to the wheel but it feels fast, for some reason this wheel feels like you're riding faster than you are, on third ride I hit 62kmh and triggered 80% PWM alarm (I'm a heavy rider so lighter riders will get higher speeds).

It feels more playful than my Sherman S (not that the Sherman S lacks in that regard), I think it will be a nice compliment to the Sherman S.

 

PWM Based Tiltback:

Testing Tiltback at low speed (30% PWM setting) it's serviceable but a bit uncomfortable and not as smooth and responsive as Begode Custom Firmware one, later setting it to 76% PWM it was difficult to feel it at high speed and I had to rely on my 80% EUC World PWM alert, I will try 70% PWM value on the tiltback instead and see if it matches my PWM alert better or if it's just difficult to feel it at higher speeds. Definitely room for improvement by LeaperKim here though.

 

Suspension:

Very similar to Sherman S, same plush feeling, the 1cm shorter travel is not really noticed at least not right now, I still have not done technical off-road.

Weighing in around 105kg with gear I have to set full preload on the 66lb variant to get my desired sag which will then be between 25-30%, full preload vs no preload is night and day how the suspension feels because I loose so much travel otherwise, much more enjoyable with correct sag settings.

 

Service:

So I wanted to disassemble my Patton early on to check and do some things:

• Swap motor screws to 12.9 steel grade (and rust proofing them with Corrosion X Heavy Duty)
• Swap oil seals in shocks to SKF Showa (same as I did on my Sherman S, great upgrade)
• Investigate strange clonking sound
• General checkup and learn how to disassemble the wheel

Overall the Sherman S is faster to work on than the Patton, there are many screws on the Patton which take a lot more time and it's a bit fiddly, it's not very difficult but a bit time consuming.

My torque specs for the most important screws:

• Motor Screws 18Nm - Same as Sherman S
• Battery to Suspension Screws (Short black ones) 11Nm - Same as Sherman S
• Suspension Clamp Screws 8Nm - Same as Sherman S
• Top to Battery Screws 8Nm - this worked fine until one of the very last screws which sadly de-threaded (the curse of soft aluminium), so maybe the safe route would be 7Nm, I didn't want to torque these by hand as they seem pretty important holding the batteries and all.

LK Improved Waterproofing:

It appears that LeaperKim has improved the waterproofing on top of the batteries, it has a very well fit rubber seal/block at the top now under the rubber seal, I think it will take a lot of water to get in there, first have to go through the top plastic, then first rubber seal then second rubber seal, not impossible but also not likely.

 

Annoying Holes:

I don't know what it is with LeaperKim and their affinity for putting holes in dumb places, like the fender on the Sherman S and the plastic holder for the fenders on both the Sherman S and Patton, I can see no use for these holes and only allows mud and dirt to easily get into the suspension so I covered them up, same as I did on the Sherman S.

Before you say it's for dirt to get out please observe that they stop way above the bottom where dirt would instead pile up.

By all means the area around the suspension is still open and dirt can get in as well as out even if you cover these holes but oh boy I rather not have a bunch of gunk spray right into the suspension from the motor.

Before:

After:

Cable side:

This doesn't affect suspension, no moving parts will touch the tape. 👍

 

Motor screws:

I wanted to swap motor screws to strong steel grade 12.9 screws, having heard the horror stories of snapped screws it was high priority, I did exactly the same on my Sherman S, no spacers or lockrings, only the screw and blue Loctite, after 1000km inspection on Sherman S they were still tight.

The screw specification is M6x20mm, avoid 25mm I measured the inside and 25mm would be a very tight fit and possibly cause problems like de-threading.

Since I choose to use steel screws they will be prone to rust so I protected them after installation with Corrosion X heavy duty spray, I don't plan to ride the wheel in winter period when there's salt, if I do I will inspect it at some point but Corrosion X is supposed to be really good protection.

Here are the factory screws, a bit unclear of they had Loctite or not, at least no blue color on them, most of them were pretty tightly torqued but a couple was more loose than the others.

 

Swapping oil seals:

I put the same SKF Showa seals that I put in my Sherman S which I wrote about here:

They have less stiction and longer lifespan so a worthwhile upgrade for me, I also swapped oil to 5w fork oil, 130ml according to LeaperKim video.

 

Weird Clonking Sound:

I had an easily reproducible clonking sound when going up steep obstacles such as a high curb or a rock and similar things, it didn't sound "normal" to me and I suspected something was wrong, my first suspicion pointed me in the direction of the batteries due to what happened to the demo wheel and other early adopters reporting loose batteries inside the battery case.

While not having test ridden enough to see that the problem is completely gone the batteries were indeed loose in there, specifically the front right battery (same as the demo wheel that broke go figure), if taking the battery box in hand and shaking it a bit upside down the battery moved with ease in there.

Possible that other forum users that reported weird clonking sound have the same issue.

My solution was to put a couple of layers of neoprene at the bottom to act as a cushion, I had a roll of soft neoprene at home which I folded 4 times to create the cushion:

The purpose of the cushion is twofold, both to soften any impact but also remove open space in the compartment so that the battery wouldn't move around in the first place.

 

Hidden Problem fixed - Deadzone/Slop in the middle of motor

So prior to doing my service I noticed a slop/deadzone in the middle of my wheel, it was mostly noticeable when rocking the wheel by hand, other local Patton owners reports the same thing, it was a bit annoying but not super bad, well it turns out the problem is gone now after doing my service, it's possible that it's related to swapping motor screws (due to not all of them being super tight) but I can only speculate about that.

 just to note from my experience, the battery rubber grommet on the top does not seal at all from just seeing how it seals on my model. Because it's too small on the long side. I even tested with a bit of water and it went past the rubber and into the battery box 

[Rawnei]

12 minutes ago, Critzlez said:

 just to note from my experience, the battery rubber grommet on the top does not seal at all from just seeing how it seals on my model. Because it's too small on the long side. I even tested with a bit of water and it went past the rubber and into the battery box 

Does yours look like this? How did you test it, with whole wheel assembled or some other way?

[Critzlez]

1 minute ago, Rawnei said:

Does yours look like this? How did you test it, with whole wheel assembled or some other way?

Not that plastic part, but the rubber flap on top of it that is supposed to be pressed between the battery box and the top plate. I just had some water dropped on that rubber flap and it was able to go past it. I think if you tape up the hole on that hard plastic cover you pictured above where the wire goes through, itll be fine

Check here for a picture and my notes 

 

[Rawnei]

9 minutes ago, Critzlez said:

Not that plastic part, but the rubber flap on top of it that is supposed to be pressed between the battery box and the top plate. I just had some water dropped on that rubber flap and it was able to go past it. I think if you tape up the hole on that hard plastic cover you pictured above where the wire goes through, itll be fine

Check here for a picture and my notes 

 

Not sure which plastic part you mean, there are 2 rubber parts.

Was battery unscrewed from the top when you did this? i.e. nothing pressing on those two parts? Or was everything assembled?

[Uras]

8 hours ago, Rawnei said:

well it turns out the problem is gone now after doing my service, it's possible that it's related to swapping motor screws (due to not all of them being super tight) but I can only speculate about that.

geez, that's a worry. You averted a potential disaster there if that is the case.

[Cyberwolf]

@Rawnei - Awesome writeup, thank you! (that was extremely helpful)

[Critzlez]

7 hours ago, Rawnei said:

Not sure which plastic part you mean, there are 2 rubber parts.

Was battery unscrewed from the top when you did this? i.e. nothing pressing on those two parts? Or was everything assembled?

Everything was assembled except the top plastic cover. I dropped water into the hole where the battery wires come from

 I'm referring to the flexible, flat rubber part that is on top of the hard plastic cover for the battery box, but doesnt seal correctly

Edited July 28, 2023 by Critzlez