How to make EUC looks cooler and easier to learn?

[Bob Yan]

EUC looks dorky in the majority's eyes, and the steep learning curve is another big barrier. 

For our riders, we know how fun and unique of the riding experience of EUC, and lots of us regret that we should have got into the EUC world earlier.  How to share that kind of fun and excitement to more people is what we've been thinking of these years, obviously we should have a way to change the public image of the EUC, if people think it's cool instead of nerdy, they might have motivation to give it a shoot, and if they can learn to ride it within a few minutes, it'll help too. 

So any ideas?  I hope we can have a brainstorm here. 

[UniVehje]

1) Looks is important. Round shape with rainbow side lights looks nerdy. First wheels that got clearly positive feedback from outsiders were KS S18 and S22. 
 

2) we’ve lately got plenty of exciting videos of people jumping and riding trails. Some of the footage has got quite a large audience on social media. Much larger than EUC rider community. I don’t think they see them as nerdy. 
 

3) Utility aspect should have bigger emphasis when luring in new people. It’s the best vehicle for commuting. Safety is an issue, but otherwise all the scooter riders would like EUC much better if they invested the time to learn.

4) Learning will alway be difficult. Learning sessions at local stores is a good option together with more teaching videos. Biggest motivation ti learn is seeing exciting videos if people enjoying riding and having friends who ride.
I cannot see how average learning time could be measured in minutes. Nobody learned to ride a bike in minutes but we all learned it as a child. Children can learn quickly so maybe put the emphasis on next generation. Maybe you should develop a wheel aimed for kids? They’ll buy a V13 when they grow up.
 

5) EUCs will probably never become mainstream and I think that’s fine. 

[mrelwood]

If EUCs were positively presented in a popular music video or a movie, the interest towards EUCs would surely take a monumental leap in the generic population.

[Robse]

4 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

If EUCs were positively presented in a popular music video or a movie, the interest towards EUCs would surely take a monumental leap in the generic population.

I am damn sure, the next Marvel picture will be: EUCMAN  The ride for glory!

[Bob Yan]

30 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

 

4) Learning will alway be difficult. Learning sessions at local stores is a good option together with more teaching videos. Biggest motivation ti learn is seeing exciting videos if people enjoying riding and having friends who ride.
I cannot see how average learning time could be measured in minutes. Nobody learned to ride a bike in minutes but we all learned it as a child. Children can learn quickly so maybe put the emphasis on next generation. Maybe you should develop a wheel aimed for kids? They’ll buy a V13 when they grow up.

Maybe we can also think about the formation of the wheel, how to make it easier to learn, like a wide wheel to make it easier to balance left and right side?

[techyiam]

I just have to look at the people in my family and relatives, and all I can say is that almost all have no interest. I only know of one relative who ride an e-bike instead of driving a car for a few short trips. This person has absolutely no interests in euc's. 

When out riding, very, very few express interest. The average person will tell me euc's look too dangerous. However, on very few occasions, there were kids who were mesmerized, along with even fewer adults. There were only a handful of random people who were ready to go online to learn more about euc's.

I met one young adult who told me he really wanted to ride an euc. But he bought a e-scooter instead because while at EEVEES, he wasn't able to ride an euc after trying one. Another encounter was with an older adult who rides an e-scooter; he told me he just couldn't learn to ride an euc, so he gave up. His friends have euc's. 

At the moment, I believe not everyone will have interest to learn to ride an euc.

The general public perception needs to be changed so that euc's are perceived to be not anymore difficult to learn than a bicycle. And equally important, euc's are not more dangerous to ride.

And to address the steep learning curve, for those who are sitting on the fence, you need an euc that is not intimidating, and easy to click with. The potential rider needs self assurance that it is possible to learn. Perhaps, an euc along the lines of Mten4? The tire diameter must be small, but with high gyro, to assist rider balance. The higher gyro would allow a new rider to start being able to balance at a slower speed. Since, the euc is small, and the pedals are low, the rider can easily step off without injury. In addition, this learner's wheel need to be light and not top heavy so that the learner can start balancing at a lower speed. Moreover, this learner's wheel need to be rugged because it could be dropped many times.

I think looks are important to euc riders, or some individuals watching YouTube, but for the majority of the public, what stands out for them are riders gliding on one wheel silently. Most euc's are black, with the rider on board, they won't be able to tell much.

Now to address the elephant in the room, euc's are illegal in Canada and in other countries. It is just that local police for the most part don't enforce the law.

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by techyiam

[yoos]

Great question!

What is lacking is a perfect short video showcasing all the major capabilities of EUCs in a few minutes. Whenever I want to lure friends into the world of EUCs I struggle to find a perfect single video on youtube. Something short, packed with exciting content: 1) aggressive riding (with exaggerated forward lean which is best embodied by light riders, e.g. Kuji or, best of all, Nadia Mura), dynamical leans -- accelerating, braking and carving with an emphasis on the athletic/acrobatic aspect. 2) weaving through obstacles -- training obstacles or even cars and other moving vehicles (evx videos, especially with Crazy VT), if you dare include such controversial content. Jumping over speed bumps or potholes. This would emphasize street agility and commuting possibilities for urbanites 3) Offroading with dust, puddles, stones, ideally with some drifting and definitely with jumps. 4) skatepark tricks: hops and drops, on the spot rotations, staircases etc. 5) fun activities emphasizing the hands-free experience: EUC polo, eating icecream with a spoon while riding, carrying large objects (e.g. a sofa) etc. 6) just a couple or family riding relaxed and conversing while using hand gestures 7) a flashy group ride.

This explicit demonstration of capabilites would attract many audiences. 

I guess there are two general strategies of telling people it's cool: A) It's cool like nothing else you have ever seen or tried. B ) it's just as cool as other cool things that you already think are cool -- motorcycles/bicycles/scooter etc. The first approach is to catch people who want new experiences or want to stand apart, typical early adopters. The second would target the much bigger audience of relatively conservative people who are only comfortable with established things and perceive new tech as nerdy, indeed.

While the industry is still young there are already different use cases and sometimes opposite demands: some want a decent, business-looking black vehicle that does not stand out in an office setting. Other want a loud flashy vehicle to show off on the street. Some want portability and ease of maintenance, others want top performance and range. So perhaps very different advertisment campaigns are in order for different audiences. 

In places like Moscow EUCs are already universally acknowledged: people know of their existence very well and many personally know a rider. But Moscow is definitely an early adopter city, in many other places people still turn heads every time they see an EUC.

In any case I agree with @mrelwood that it is now a great time to slip an EUC into a major movie or something (imagine a James Bond movie where he escapes or enters on an EUC with a gun in each hand) to promote recognition and appeal.

34 minutes ago, Bob Yan said:

Maybe we can also think about the formation of the wheel, how to make it easier to learn, like a wide wheel to make it easier to balance left and right side?

A much more difficult question. Indeed, some wheels and tires in particular make a wheel more stable and planted which is appreciated by learners. Otherwise I can't see what can be changed in the EUC design to make learning easier. I would focus on more opportunities to learn for the general public. Ecodrift had the following scheme, which I find an attractive: you could take private lessons from an affiliated instructor (with an EUC provided) and if you then decided to buy an EUC from ecodrift those lessons would be reimbursed. This means you can try and learn on an instructors EUC and if you like it you can buy an EUC and don't pay for the lessons. [I planned to make use of these lessons myself but in the end found an inexpensive used EUC and learnt solo with the help of youtube videos]

[mrelwood]

57 minutes ago, Bob Yan said:

Maybe we can also think about the formation of the wheel, how to make it easier to learn, like a wide wheel to make it easier to balance left and right side?

A tire wider than the current "standard", 3”, would veer the wheel away from what for and how most people currently use their EUCs. Even 3” takes a step away from the natural carving that 2.5” (and even 2.125”) tires allow. You can’t really carve with the Z10 (4.1” tire). Heck, you can barely even ride straight with the Z10 if there’s a groove on the road…

 Chill riding would surely be manageable with a wider tire, but it’s when you get more aggressive that the wheel’s behavior starts to be more important. And tire width is a big part of that. 3” is what the current riders expect, as it has a pretty good balance for aggressive, off-road, and calm riders alike.

The tire profile makes a big difference between the wheel staying upright (K66 and street tires) and it falling to the turn (knobbies). So more thought and experiments on the tire choice could be warranted.

 Then there’s the question that are EUCs yet even ready for the general public? V11 shocks often fail, replacements are hard to get, suspension rails wear out after a few thousand km on a heavier rider, V12 issues are still well remembered, V10 overheated and the pedals cracked, and other manufacturers have barely gotten a single model out in the last few years that doesn’t require a huge amount of work done before you can even ride it. In some sense it would be best to get a fleet of well functioning and durable wheels into the markets before we even try to lure in others than just brave EUC enthusiasts.

 

17 minutes ago, techyiam said:

And to address the steep learning curve, for those who are sitting on the fence, you need an euc that is not intimidating, and easy to click with. The potential rider needs self assurance that it is possible to learn.

These are great points. The current trend of 50+ kg wheels definitely isn’t making the transition easier. Maybe a 14x3” wheel? Lighter 16x3” and 18x3” wheels?

 

12 minutes ago, yoos said:

What is lacking is a perfect short video showcasing all the major capabilities of EUCs in a few minutes.

A video like that would indeed be very useful. But all the examples were for extremists, as none of them presented the EUC as a practical and relatively safe mode of transportation that can directly replace a regular old fashioned bicycle. Or one that showcases the eye opening freedom and enjoyment it can bring just by riding around calmly. Those are the aspects I tried to bring out in this video:

Maybe throw in something from this side of riding to the video as well?

Edited October 24, 2022 by mrelwood

[yoos]

11 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Maybe throw in something from this side of riding to the video as well?

Absolutely. However, the word "cool" concerns public perception (as well as perception of public perception), i.e. the impressiveness/prestige/social signalling of riding and EUC. And being a smart mode of transportation with a healthy posture is not that cool (just how an automatic car gearbox or orthopedic mattress are not really in the realm of "cool" although they typically improve your life much more than a fashionable jacket). Nevertheless these are key aspects of promotion to grown-ups for whom the outwards coolness is secondary (there are not so many such people, I think). There are some persuasive videos comparing EUC to other modes of transport, but for the general public such videos should come second. The first thing is to get their attention and convey the message "this might be cool, this is perhaps not nerdy" in just a few minutes. Once you have their interest you can delve into details and explanations and focus on practicality, universality or the beatiful feeling of freedom (which is difficult to quickly explain to a non-rider).

[techyiam]

What I have observed is that from last summer to this summer, there have been a significant increase of electric kick scooters ridership. Electric Kick Scooters were legalized in 2021.

In BC, the pilot program was amended on September 13, 2022, to include two more municipalities, and to allow them to ride on main roads. This includes roads with a speed limit at or below 50 km/h, and only in bike lanes on roads with a speed limit above 50 km/h. This is huge. Before, they were only restricted to secondary roads, like side streets. Hopefully in the near future, the program gets expanded to include euc's.

But in the meantime, electric kick scooter riders could be good candidates to get switched over to eucs. Currently, I don't see more euc riders this year over last years, well at least at places where I ride.

Also, from what I can tell, most bicyclists or e-bikes are commuters who are quite fit to very fit. They want the exercise. None has ever inquire about my euc. I suspect many cyclists are not good candidates. Incidentally, there are always cyclists who want to ride ahead of PEV'S. Some of these riders are fit and fast. In fact, the fastest riders on bike routes are these all decked out racers type, not the riders on e-bikes. The latter can't afford to waste precious battery power.

Having said that, once in a blue moon, some soccer mom type, not in a mini van, but on a cargo bike with two kids in the back come zooming through all the traffic. I swear, her bike must have been modded. 🙂

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by techyiam

[supercurio]

3 hours ago, Bob Yan said:

EUC looks dorky in the majority's eyes, and the steep learning curve is another big barrier. 

For our riders, we know how fun and unique of the riding experience of EUC, and lots of us regret that we should have got into the EUC world earlier.  How to share that kind of fun and excitement to more people is what we've been thinking of these years, obviously we should have a way to change the public image of the EUC, if people think it's cool instead of nerdy, they might have motivation to give it a shoot, and if they can learn to ride it within a few minutes, it'll help too. 

So any ideas?  I hope we can have a brainstorm here. 

Good question! A bit of a chicken and egg problem as many things looks weird as long as they're uncommon, and some might not dare opting for an EUC as long as it's so out of the ordinary.

There's a constant in all discussions about EUC with curious people asking questions:
"How dangerous is it?"
Everybody's assumption that riding an EUC is dangerous. Everyone seem to instinctively understand that since there's only one wheel, a failure will lead to a crash.

Here's my list

Safety

I want to truly answer that it is safe to ride and own.

• reliable alarms
• no hardware/firmware triggered crash (still unresolved on the V12 HT)
• well tuned suspension
• safe batteries

To be nice and follow the rules

By being a nice citizen around people and other vehicles.

• Non blinding lights
• Visible brake lights
• An effective implementation of a bell for signaling on bike lanes and around people, like with a wireless button leveraging the wheel's speaker with low latency

Legality

It's a common question too: "Is it legal?"
Safety and conformance to regulations are requirements to become legal 😌

Edited October 24, 2022 by supercurio

[yoos]

21 minutes ago, techyiam said:

electric kick scooter riders could be good candidates to get switched over to eucs

Indeed electric scooters are a "gateway drug" in the world of e-rideables. Personally I first got a scooter as a sensible no-parking commuting vehicle (saving 20 mins a day compared to next-fastest mode, the car and paying off after some 3-6 months). The scooter (M365) underperformed and proved dangerous due to small wheels. That's when I started wathcing wrongway's scooters reviews. In one review he used the EUC to get to the scooter (it's the dualtron X review). This is where I had the revelation -- this unicycle seems much more fun, practical and simple than the scooter the video was intended about.

Luckily, inmotion has a scooter lineup so it is in position to advertise their EUCs among their own scooter ridership. I think e-scooter riders are much more open to EUCs. The learning curve is the principle obstacle. Perhaps offer free inmotion EUC lessons to buyers of inmotion scooters or something like this? If they don't learn after four 30-minute lessons (or some other training schedule), offer money back  

[GothamMike]

3 hours ago, Bob Yan said:

EUC looks dorky in the majority's eyes, and the steep learning curve is another big barrier. 

For our riders, we know how fun and unique of the riding experience of EUC, and lots of us regret that we should have got into the EUC world earlier.  How to share that kind of fun and excitement to more people is what we've been thinking of these years, obviously we should have a way to change the public image of the EUC, if people think it's cool instead of nerdy, they might have motivation to give it a shoot, and if they can learn to ride it within a few minutes, it'll help too. 

So any ideas?  I hope we can have a brainstorm here. 

The grunge/Skateboarder look is not cool. Look at MC riders, leather jacket & dark jeans, black gloves,  and a full face helmet. I usually throw on a HiViz vest, that is ultimate dork, but the SUV drivers are always distracted. Lights on your EUC do nothing but impress the other riderz, better to have lights on your upper body.

The coolest look is making it look easy. 

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, yoos said:

whom the outwards coolness is secondary (there are not so many such people, I think).

This is something that I will forever oppose. Concerns of being cool are a part of teenagers’ insecurity, that will usually fade away pretty quickly after reaching 20. Some people like me and most of my friends never had those concerns. The only people I personally know who have any desire to be cool in others eyes are my 17 and 19 year old nephews.

Like @techyiam pointed out, during my 34000km on an EUC I have also not even once heard anyone say how riding an EUC is lame, uncool or anything in those lines. Not even one of those teenager group laughters that they do when they try to appear cool to each other.

 Instead, I’ve heard dozens of times how riding must be incredibly  dangerous. Last time I heard that was a teenager to his friends, who then zoomed off on e-kickscooters… Oh the irony!

 I’m not sure whether I’ve heard more of it being dangerous, or someone being sure that they would never learn to ride an EUC. These two have appeared to be the main obstacles of public intake, coolness factor being far far down the list. If even being on the list in the first place.

[GothamMike]

When I ride around the fancy bar district by my city's harbor, Typically in all black and a Hi-Viz vest, everyone thinks I'm a Mall-cop. I've gone rolling with the guards, its fun, until...

"....Excuse me, Officer! There are two women fighting around the corner, they are pulling each other's hair! You should do something!" 

Me: "I'm not an officer, Just because I'm Irish you think I'm a cop?  you should call 911"  (Mall cop is calling 911.)

I've pondered putting "Not a cop" on my vest, but the bad guys can't read much.  

Edited October 24, 2022 by GothamMike

[Freeforester]

3 hours ago, Bob Yan said:

Maybe we can also think about the formation of the wheel, how to make it easier to learn, like a wide wheel to make it easier to balance left and right side?

Show people learning with the use of under-the-pedal brushes, which can get them started with less fear of tipping over to the sides, I’m surprised the manufacturers haven’t already made these as learning accessories. 

[Zogly]

     

     In a short package, your important factors here are quality and safety, (company side) Equipping your distributors to take care of their customers in the event of problems, (Trust-very important with the high up front cost) Influencers, (To expose people to the joys and capabilities of EUC riding when they don't know anyone with one) and the general riders being good ambassadors. (Being able to answer questions by interested people, safe and competent usage, and actively helping others learn.) 

     As someone who very recently discovered EUCs and pulled the trigger on buying one without ever seeing one in person, I can say that your influencers are incredibly important for potential customers who are not in areas where people see a lot of EUCs already. Chooch Tech's trail riding videos were what took me from "these look fun" to "That's something I could actually use, and not just something for people who live in the city!" Wrongway's reviews and videos on a wide range of EUC topics informed my views of EUC a lot more from a practical and learning level.

     I wanted to be able to try out an EUC before I bought one, but there are no stores or actively teaching people in my city that I was able to find. Using your distributors and happy customers to expose and teach people is your best way to reach more customers. Especially if the company videos and designs show what EUCs are capable of, that they are safe, and that the customer's life will be improved by your product. I got my wheel because I was stuck behind a desk all the time and wanted something with a little risk and challenge to get me out. The fact that it takes some effort and skill to use well was a positive thing for me, not to mention that I'll be able to start conversations easily now.

     I guess what I am trying to say is that while some design improvements might make EUCs more attractive or less scary to initially learn, the biggest factor is exposure and having people who are willing and able to come alongside new customers to help guide them into the new world they are getting into. Someone who is less driven than I was may have been worried to commit $2500 (plus gear costs!) to a machine that they have no personal experience with or assistance learning on. "What if I have a technical problem or have trouble learning" are major concerns that can be alleviated with a store/distributor close by/competent users available. 

     On the topic of cosmetics, I partially agree with @UniVehje's opinion on rainbow lights, at least on models that are capable enough to not be labeled as "toys." (I DO like the lights on my V12 because of the customization available.) The Shermans, S18, S22, and V12, and most Begode models do not strike you as toys, but capable machines. Marketing to kids is great, but a majority of people will like something that looks good and reflects its capabilities visually over a rainbow-lighted egg if they have the option. (No offence to the wheels that fit that description.)

 

 

 

[supercurio]

5 hours ago, Bob Yan said:

Maybe we can also think about the formation of the wheel, how to make it easier to learn, like a wide wheel to make it easier to balance left and right side?

Let's bring back the V3 Pro with its two wheels 😄

In terms of learning I know that a bunch of people already learned to balance and ride, but quickly gave up before gaining confidence due to fear or a bad experience (an early crash)

There's a whole class of content that doesn't really exist or is very hard to find:

• How to learn to balance
• How to ride around pedestrians: best practices, what to watch for, what to avoid 
• How to ride on bike lanes 
• How to ride around cars
• How to handle interactions and crossings
• How to ride on rocks, off-road, grass
• How to handle unexpected obstacles, what to practice
• Tight turns and emergency braking 
• Which gear and why 
• (15+ more ideas)

Inmotion could make a difference here by sponsoring various content creators covering each topic from their own perspective, and aggregate everything in a step by step guide in a large playlist.

That could be called EUC School. With a quizz at the end of each section. The best thing to do while waiting for the first wheel to be delivered, and helping those on the fence to get their own EUC!

Edited October 24, 2022 by supercurio

[Planemo]

2 hours ago, GothamMike said:

The grunge/Skateboarder look is not cool.

It's a lot cooler than EUC imo. And eboards are even cooler.

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Like @techyiam pointed out, during my 34000km on an EUC I have also not even once heard anyone say how riding an EUC is lame, uncool or anything in those lines.

Neither have I from a member of the public, but ALL of my friends or in fact anyone that is on speaking terms with me has said they look dorky or at the very least, comical. The first responses were always something along the lines of 'wheres your flappy shoes' etc etc.

6 hours ago, Bob Yan said:

EUC looks dorky in the majority's eyes

I agree!

What makes it even funnier is when you get EUC riders trying to look and act 'bad'. Especially when grouped up like some sorta wannabe hells angels. It's these sort of EUC riders that my friends literally pi$$ themselves laughing at, especially when said riders are waving their willies arguing about 'I hit 48mph!' and another saying 'lame! I hit 49mph!' whilst masturbating over each others high-speed scar count.

Then they ride off into the sunset on their circus wheels, resplendent in their uber-camp flashing multi-coloured LED's 

[Freeforester]

Don’t forget to try to appeal to the sensible, fairer part of society: this can open up the market potential considerably.

 

 

 

[winterwheel]

7 hours ago, Bob Yan said:

EUC looks dorky in the majority's eyes, and the steep learning curve is another big barrier. 

For our riders, we know how fun and unique of the riding experience of EUC, and lots of us regret that we should have got into the EUC world earlier.  How to share that kind of fun and excitement to more people is what we've been thinking of these years, obviously we should have a way to change the public image of the EUC, if people think it's cool instead of nerdy, they might have motivation to give it a shoot, and if they can learn to ride it within a few minutes, it'll help too. 

So any ideas?  I hope we can have a brainstorm here. 

This is going to be a bit unfocused but I spend most of my time thinking about the problem if mass-market adoption and want to get my thoughts out before the thread goes stale...

----

The premise is 100% NOT the case in my city.

We are constantly being told how cool we look, everyone comments that they would like to ride but they just can't imagine that they would be able to do it themselves.

Yesterday morning I pulled onto a road in front of a pickup, slid off to a side road, the truck pulled alongside and as we move down the read at 45kmh or so the driver rolled down his window to shout out how AWESOME my ride was. This is fairly regular occurrence for me anyway. 

Of course, I was riding at speed without gear and drinking a coffee while all all this was going on. (Yes, I know this is triggering for many of you, this isn't the place to time or place to take me to task, it's already been discussed ad nauseum) 😊 

----

Frankly speaking, what makes wheeling less cooler is slower speeds and more gear.

Riders who put on a ton of gear and ride at 20kmh an hour look silly, no one wants any part of that. 

Riding without gear at 30kmh on an S-18 is cool, people want to try it. I've parked my Ex and started riding the S-18 the last few weeks and the difference in the reaction I get from the crowd is astounding. That's why I ride the S-18 wherever possible these days.

Riding a 14D (or a V5F for that matter) among pedestrians downtown,  again without gear, also cool. Not quite as much. I do this all the time. I'm 6.1 and 240 lbs and dressed for the office so me riding that small wheel is also a bit amusing, but civilians are interested. 

V8 without gear: cool. V8 with full gear: silly.

Riding with full gear at 60kmh is cool, but few people want want to try it. A few do though, and those are the guys who buy big fast wheels. So that's worthwhile, but I don't think this thread is about those people though. 

----

The problem we have to solve is that intuitively, when civilians see a wheeler, they believe that the rider is somehow doing the work that in fact gyroscope is handling. They believe that riding is far harder than it actually is. 

----

For large scale update two things are needed:

           - people need to educated to understand that most of the balancing is done by electronics in the wheel, not superhuman skills by the rider; this is a marketing problem

           - proper training facilities need to exist; most people will not learn on their own, but will give it a try if there is a proper, trustable training/test ride facility around; this is an infrastructure problem

 

 

 

 

 

[litewave]

5 hours ago, GothamMike said:

The coolest look is making it look easy. 

You nailed it.

As for gear, if it's flattering and you wear it well, it will enhance the appeal.

After seven years of riding, I get the most compliments wearing my TSG Pass helmet and quality gear that matches.

Having a rockin' bod helps also.

[Robse]

26 minutes ago, winterwheel said:

Riders who put on a ton of gear and ride at 20kmh an hour look silly, no one wants any part of that. 

Riding without gear at 30kmh on an S-18 is cool, people want to try it. I've parked my Ex and started riding the S-18 the last few weeks and the difference in the reaction I get from the crowd is astounding. That's why I ride the S-18 wherever possible these days.

Riding a 14D (or a V5F for that matter) among pedestrians downtown,  again without gear, also cool. Not quite as much. I do this all the time. I'm 6.1 and 240 lbs and dressed for the office so me riding that small wheel is also a bit amusing, but civilians are interested. 

V8 without gear: cool. V8 with full gear: silly.

Riding with full gear at 60kmh is cool, but few people want want to try it. A few do though, and those are the guys who buy big fast wheels. So that's worthwhile, but I don't think this thread is about those people though. 

----

The problem we have to solve is that intuitively, when civilians see a wheeler, they believe that the rider is somehow doing the work that in fact gyroscope is handling. They believe that riding is far harder than it actually is. 

----

For large scale update two things are needed:

           - people need to educated to understand that most of the balancing is done by electronics in the wheel, not superhuman skills by the rider; this is a marketing problem

           - proper training facilities need to exist; most people will not learn on their own, but will give it a try if there is a proper, trustable training/test ride facility around; this is an infrastructure problem

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think any gear is silly.  In fact that "sillyness" is for those who are not afraid - and no fear = accidents.....  

Besides, riding without gear is sending the wrong signals.

Many people can ride a bicycle, but only few of them are so good at it, that they can handle danger situations well. Mostly they are saved by the luck of having 2 wheels - it's not that easy with a EUC.  And i do not agree;  The balancing done by the wheel is relative simple, and totally dependent on counteraction by the human, whose analog fluid filled ear attached  g-force sensor in cooperation with eyes and every other sensors of pressure, position and movement, processed by the brain, and in split seconds transmitted to muscles for movement in the end is the master controller of what's going on;  stay upright or tumble.   

[winterwheel]

Be happy to debate all that in a different thread if you really want to have it out.

[0000]

9 hours ago, Bob Yan said:

So any ideas?  I hope we can have a brainstorm here. 

I want to expand upon a few points brought up by @techyiam, @mrelwood, and @supercurio and others here with perhaps some unconventional thinking.

Looking at all the liaison work on the forums @supercurio in particular has been doing lately regarding issues related to euc design and manufacturing quality, and their impact on rider safety, I don't think quality and safety can be under-emphasized here. Sure, it's nice to want to grow your/the EUC market; however, if your products come to market with design flaws or some noticeable percentage of defects in a product line, the market you end up building is much less likely to last. The fact that EUCs remain a niche market is helping EUC manufacturers right now, not hurting them given the state of production wheels in 2021 and 2022 IMO.

Not only that, but the fact that the demographics of buyers are, on average, risk-taking males aged 20-70 who can afford to drop thousands on a transportation toy is also helping in not getting negative media attention and staying below the general public's notice. No one in the greater public sphere cares all that much if a few of us drop off here and there along the way, just facts.

That said, even in your niche market, you (speaking in general about manufacturers) are currently turning away potential orders from previous owners of wheels because of recent quality and design issues. Perhaps it's the short development cycle driving some of this, perhaps it's supply chain issues, perhaps other external factors, it doesn't matter though. The perception in our niche market about quality and thus safety of newer EUCs is not exactly rosy. To try and boost sales into other demographics without first solving these perceptions is risky, and not just in terms of sales.

@techyiam brought up the illegality in Canada, and I think manufacturer's should think long and hard about how they want to protect for long-term sales and markets (if you do at all, that is). Fact is, this niche market and advantageous demographics I mentioned earlier keeping things relatively under the radar in terms of public and regulatory scrutiny, has been largely a boon for sales IMO.

However, very high speed wheels, while fun and addicting, come with a much higher inherent risk of ultimately resulting in negative regulations such as outright bans on EUCs. More speed = greater potential for spectacular crashes and failures = greater possibility for regional bans and total elimination of existing markets. The more wheels you sell and put into the hands of those with an underdeveloped appreciation for risk-taking (logically skewing toward the young), the more possibilities you create for this negative eventuality. Sure, you can sell extreme performance wheels, just know that the risk for total market destruction exists whether it is acknowledged or not.

I think the most potential for growth in EUC adoption is amongst the youth. They're lower to the ground, weigh less, bounce back from injury, possess greater amounts of flexibility on average, are less likely to have been impacted by negative lifestyle choices leading to poor fitness, and are the most open-minded. This market also represents the highest risk to sell to because of the issues I already noted above. A catch-22. Luckily for all of us, powerful wheels are expensive keeping them out of the hands of most youth who might otherwise suddenly find themselves tumbling off a monster pro at 50 mph and under the wheels of a surprised and unlucky driver or flattened on the grill of an 18-wheeler.

This goes for Inmotion or any other manufacturer, @mrelwoodand other already mentioned one way, but if you want to appeal to the masses, you simply have to make them seem cool. This works particularly well on the youth, but for the most part the majority of people are tribalistic trend followers. It's why the term influencer exists. Get wheels in the hands of, say some celebrities' kids, and watch the increased sales begin to flow. Just another idea to add to the already-mentioned inclusion into popular films/movies (if you know anyone influential working in Hollywood).

IMO a better question is though, do you think EUCs today are ready for increased scrutiny that comes along with significantly expanding your market share/presence?

Edited October 24, 2022 by Vanturion