Eucner Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 18 hours ago, Tawpie said: Some hammer them in using a wooden block, at one point there was a GW video of bearing installation via hammer alone (no wood), but that's not a preferred technique. You could hammer old bearings off, but using a hammer to new bearings will damage the balls in them. Just use heat and, if needed, a screw operated bearing fitting tool. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 Yes, might not need to use blowtorch to remove old bearings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted October 30, 2022 Author Share Posted October 30, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Magman116 said: 6012-2NSE cm NACHI Brand Rubber Seal Ball Bearing 60x95x18 6012 2RS 6012RS https://a.co/d/0RHqods If you don't feel you can do the job, it is worth it to find some that can. Thank you again Sir Magman; you do make it sound within the bounds of possibility to do one's self, which is encouraging if all else fails. I can get a friend, a hammer and a blowtorch right ?! And brilliant news, in that I now know exactly which bearings I need. Sod's law dictates that Amazon say that product is not in stock, and they don't know if it is ever coming back, but I will phone someone like Bearing Station over here on Monday, who seem to have this equivalent in stock... which seems suspiciously low-priced at just 15 pounds a go ! May I trouble you one more time @Magman116 to just confirm if I need 1 or 2 of them - no photos ever show both sides so this remains unclear, and I need to be sure at the ordering stage ! Thank you dude - your help here is invaluable. Edited October 30, 2022 by Cerbera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magman116 Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 1 hour ago, Cerbera said: Thank you again Sir Magman; you do make it sound within the bounds of possibility to do one's self, which is encouraging if all else fails. I can get a friend, a hammer and a blowtorch right ?! And brilliant news, in that I now know exactly which bearings I need. Sod's law dictates that Amazon say that product is not in stock, and they don't know if it is ever coming back, but I will phone someone like Bearing Station over here on Monday, who seem to have this equivalent in stock... which seems suspiciously low-priced at just 15 pounds a go ! May I trouble you one more time @Magman116 to just confirm if I need 1 or 2 of them - no photos ever show both sides so this remains unclear, and I need to be sure at the ordering stage ! Thank you dude - your help here is invaluable. Yes, you need 2 bearings, one for each side. I did not add any more grease to the new bearings, just put them in as I'd. I did not need a hammer at all. Once the metal expands from the heat, the bearings come out with no restrictions. You can use a bearing puller and a bearing press. I have both, but it was just too easy to heat up the metal till the bearing lift right out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted October 30, 2022 Author Share Posted October 30, 2022 Thank you everyone - a plan is slowly forming ! I have found these bearings available in the UK - just running that past you in case you think I have missed something, and these aren't right Last question remaining is do you think it is possible to replace bearings on both sides without disconnecting the motor cable ? Of course if I have to I will, but if I can avoid it I'd like to ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magman116 Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 Unfortunately you will need to disconnect the motor wires. That bearing will work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted October 30, 2022 Author Share Posted October 30, 2022 Thanks for confirming @Magman116 , and no worries - can do ! I owe you a beer or 2 my friend... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magman116 Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 Glad I could help a little. You can do it. Next time I cross the pond, I will take you up on the beer. Lol. Trooper Beer? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcatraz Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 Take the motor out and feel the axle by hand. Put a lot of axial pressure while spinning. One side will feel grittier than the other if it's a damaged bearing. Before taking the motor out you could try to grab the tire with some muscle and check for sideways play in the motor. There shouldn't be any. If you feel any clunking sideways, it's a bearing problem. (no spinning involved) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goatman Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 i half assed or chooched my exn to waterproof the bearings with no issues my master got the bearing knock inspected both bearings half assed or chooched the bearings from just the one side with liquimolly and its been fine ever since. its easy to do its easier to get the seal off if you work at getting the inside diameter off first and it will just pop off. mountain or a molehill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted October 31, 2022 Author Share Posted October 31, 2022 (edited) Wow - thanks @goatman ! Yes that is EXACTLY the same knocking I am getting - and I am heartily encouraged that yours was such a relatively easy fix. I had found your bearing inspection video a few days back, but hadn't seen the others, and the rest of which are equally helpful. This thread is becoming a really useful resource for anyone getting that noise on the Master ! I feel like I have comprehensive plans in place on all fronts now: I can pursue Gotway for a new Motor and myself or dealer could fit it. I can 'half-ass' it as above, though I reckon you've actually done a pretty decent job there. I can get the new bearing races and also fit them with help if the half-ass plan fails ! Plan 1 can theoretically be going on at the same time as 2 / 3 and could even result in a working spare motor ! I have been browsing the LiquiMoly range, and noting your comments about the existing grease in the bearings - which seems clearer, and thinner than the thick white marine grease, which makes me wonder if it could be a ultra-rubber-compatible silicone grease instead ? That is clear, and less viscous, and LiquiMoly also do one of those ! So just thought I'd ask if you had considered that, and if you have an opinion on which might be better to try ! Many thanks Edited October 31, 2022 by Cerbera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMA Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 this is probably the best video you can find on how to replace bearings, keep in mind that the knock is usually caused by misalignment, changing the bearing will not solve the issue if the side covers don't do their job 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted October 31, 2022 Author Share Posted October 31, 2022 37 minutes ago, EMA said: keep in mind that the knock is usually caused by misalignment I will keep that in mind, but will push it way to the back, and hope my alignment is OK - it certainly looks OK in that I can't see too much of a rim around one side of the bearings and none or the inverse on the other. I take hope from the fact that @goatman's bearings were ever so slightly out, and he was still able to solve it with the re-grease. It's certainly the first thing I have to try, being least effort, and unless I am careless and really balls it up I don't think I can make it worse in the attempt. I have Speedyfeet's blessing to do that now, so have ordered the (regular) marine grease (if it's good enough for Goatman, it's good enough for me) and will be going in towards the end of the week. I will perform the EUCharist beforehand and pray to the great wheel in the sky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 15 hours ago, Cerbera said: silicone grease instead ? That is clear, and less viscous Where did you read this? Liqui-Moly Silicone grease has a base oil viscosity of 7500mm2/s, while their Marine Grease is 100mm2/s. (Smaller number is better / more runny.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted October 31, 2022 Author Share Posted October 31, 2022 (edited) On 10/31/2022 at 7:53 PM, mrelwood said: Where did you read this? Oh I didn't, other than in @Paul A's advice a page or 2 back - I was merely registering the suggestion that whatever original grease is inside the Begode Motors might be some sort of silicone-based grease, which could explain why it is like jelly and clear, rather than white and 'cottage-cheesy' in consistency, as @goatman was expecting to see when he replaced his. As the bearings themselves have rubber seals, but it is not clear what type of rubber, I was also trying to make sure that LiquiMoly Marine wasn't going to rot my seals over the next 6 months, and briefly considered a silicone grease because it is very safe for use with ALL the rubber types in a way that white lithium based grease is apparently not ! In the end I think I came to the (possibly erroneous) conclusion the LM Marine is a PFPE based grease, and therefore should also be fine with any type of rubber, but in the end I thought 'well it hasn't broken @goatman's seals, and replacement bearings are quite cheap, so I'll go with it ! Edited November 4, 2022 by Cerbera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted November 1, 2022 Author Share Posted November 1, 2022 ...and that's how we get the covers off, for anyone wondering... And so to bed, for tomorrow we ride... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted November 1, 2022 Author Share Posted November 1, 2022 (edited) I am... IN the motor !!! Begode / ZX you naughty rascals 99% sure this will be my issue. If you thought @goatman's cavities were bad the other day, check this shit out !! HUGE gaps in the grease, and large portions uncovered ! Here's the awful truth, which was SO dreadful the camera was unable to properly focus ! Call that a ball race ?! Very relieved to have found what is most likely to be the issue though. I'm goin' in with the proper stuff !! Edited November 4, 2022 by Cerbera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted November 2, 2022 Author Share Posted November 2, 2022 (edited) Before... eurgh. During... better After... ooh yeah... Done. Good !! Did both sides like that... It was impossible to get the grease between the races and you can't rotate the hub without hangers, so I filled it up, and packed it in as best as I could. When reassembled, we have quite a lot MORE grinding as the grease distributed itself properly on first few turns, and then it became strangely silent when spinning ! I have been wheeling it round the lounge for ages, done the kitchen circles test, and so far no knocks or creaks, and certainly nothing regular like we had before. It is too early to say before tomorrow's test rides if this has fixed my issue or not, but I am apprehensively / cautiously hopeful ! We ride at dawn !! So what are we learning here ? First off we learn that we don't need to take the hubs off to service the bearing ! Throughout this entire thread I did not appreciate that until yesterday ! We are learning that Sir @goatman is not alone in having a shoddily greased motor ! We learn that this weird jelly like clear grease they use in these is shite and either doesn't get applied properly, or dries up or evaporates over time... It seems to sit atop the bearings rather than sink into and surround them. It isn't sticking to them either because I could remove nearly all of it (see photo 2) with just Cotton buds (Qtips) and a bit of kitchen towel. We do note that none of the bearings appear damaged, and the bearings didn't seem noticeably misaligned, both good things. We are perhaps learning that Begode is right to shift away from HB motors. I wonder if they will do that for all their wheels. Lastly we learn that this forum is full of properly nice, experience and knowledge-laden people, happy to help and kindly donate their time to resolving problems like these, for which I am massively grateful, whether it works or not ! Thank you everyone. Edited November 2, 2022 by Cerbera 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 6 hours ago, Cerbera said: We are perhaps learning that Begode is right to shift away from ZX motors. I wonder if they will do that for all their wheels. AFAIK Master doesn't have ZX motor only T4 did, does your motor actually have a ZX marking on the motor cover? Mine certainly doesn't have a ZX marking it has HB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted November 2, 2022 Author Share Posted November 2, 2022 35 minutes ago, Rawnei said: AFAIK Master doesn't have ZX motor only T4 did, does your motor actually have a ZX marking on the motor cover? Mine certainly doesn't have a ZX marking it has HB. Yep, my bad - HB it is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 14 hours ago, Cerbera said: HUGE gaps in the grease, and large portions uncovered ! To be fair, all bearings that I’ve opened up have looked exactly the same. I think that’s just how cheap bearings are. But since only a small percentage of them ever start emitting any strange noises, I don’t believe that this was the sole reason for the knocking noise. If there is movement in the bearing due to misaligned bearing indents or such, grease packing will surely cover the noise, at least for a while. But it doesn’t remove the source of the knocking. Rolling Stones may rock, but rolling balls don’t knock. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted November 2, 2022 Author Share Posted November 2, 2022 It's a good point, one I hope I to god I can disregard, but a good point nonetheless. The reason I am hopeful is the nature of the noise when very slow. It was only a knock at 15 kph+. Below that speed it was a creaky grinding of the sort that I could quite imagine being caused by a sharp grain of sand or grit getting into the ball race, and catching on the unlubricated parts of the balls. The balls don't have to move anywhere to produce that I reckon, and if the theory is right, then hopefully I removed the contamination in my cleaning stage and so my hope remains that a veritable shit-ton of grease will stop grinding because everything has a layer of liquid coating it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 8 minutes ago, Cerbera said: It was only a knock at 15 kph+. This is just a thought, but the grinding noise at slow speeds could have come from the bearing slowly tilting it’s position, while at faster speeds it does it fast enough to be a knock. 8 minutes ago, Cerbera said: hopefully I removed the contamination in my cleaning stage I don’t think there was contamination in the bearing. If there were, it would get ground down on the ball trace and be a continuous grind. And it seemed like your cleaning process wouldn’tt have removed anything from the actual ball trace. Either way, I think you can consider the job done for now, and maybe get back to it if it starts making noise again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 Maybe just replace the bearing. Parts are cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 Or remount the bearings using proper installation procedures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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