Enough is Enough

[jimjam.nyc]

53 minutes ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

idk, the master pro clocking in at 120lbs is actually rather nimble and playful to ride suprisingly. i was shocked how responsive and light it felt riding it. i can see wheels being significantly heavier and still riding well

I wouldn't classify the master pro as a commuter option. Though it is great to hear it is not hard to ride at that size and weight. Anyone having to lug a wheel on a train or any sort of public situation is dealing with a bit of a pain in the butt. I would even be a bit skeptical taking a wheel this size to a restaurant or bar if I was meeting friends. Things are still sort of wheel friendly in NY, but even with small wheels like the v12 i am starting to get some push back entering some establishments with it. Its rare but it happens. 

 

[Funky]

43 minutes ago, Bone said:

You have a lot of criticism for what gotway makes for someone who wouldn't want to buy a gotway.  Their wheels are typically for performance fanatics who don't mind looking past build quality issues, so why complain about them making wheels for their own market?

That's why it's not my wheel brand. (I personally love what RS offers in ~27kg weight.. If only it was better built. Heat sink not letting water true, mobo not being at side, but on top, so on..) In my eyes every single other manufacturer makes "better" wheels.  (As someone who rides 1/3 in rain - water part is very important to me.)

But you are spot on about gotway being all performance to price.. But if wheel falls apart after a year - that's simply is bad.

Doh i can admit they have been getting better at build quality. But as every manufacturer - they all can improve.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Funky

[GoGeorgeGo]

17 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said:

I wouldn't classify the master pro as a commuter option. Though it is great to hear it is not hard to ride at that size and weight. Anyone having to lug a wheel on a train or any sort of public situation is dealing with a bit of a pain in the butt. I would even be a bit skeptical taking a wheel this size to a restaurant or bar if I was meeting friends. Things are still sort of wheel friendly in NY, but even with small wheels like the v12 i am starting to get some push back entering some establishments with it. Its rare but it happens. 

 

i feel like big wheels are the more commuter friendly option. they are faster and dont leave you reliant on 3rd party transportation. just ride straight to work on your master pro. our group of pocal riders all frequents outdoor seating establishments primarily 

[Funky]

15 minutes ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

i feel like big wheels are the more commuter friendly option. they are faster and dont leave you reliant on 3rd party transportation. just ride straight to work on your master pro. our group of pocal riders all frequents outdoor seating establishments primarily 

And that's why you don't need 3rd party options - you can ride your wheel "everywhere".  If you ride 20miles++ and with cars - you are right about big wheels.

Think about others, and how/where they ride/live. Some people work in different city and only road connecting those cities are highways.. Some don't want to ride 55mph god knows how many miles. It's easier to ride to train/bus and then to work place. Same time it's faster and you can enjoy a book or watch a podcast, or heck do something.

I'm happy for you - you can ride everywhere you want. Counter argument - Some people don't want to ride with cars. Same time don't want to ride "fast". And don't need very big range that bigger wheels offer.

There it is again big wheels vs small wheels. You need both of them. Because everyone's needs are differed.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Funky

[Murdomeek]

EUC is still at its infancy.  

With any 'hobby', new innovations are likely going to come with issues and headaches.  the 'die hard' fans will always buy them no matter what. And there will always be haters.  (camera industry innovations, bike forks/cassettes/shifter innovations, digital art software updates, golf clubs, video games features, etc etc.

YOU ride slower than 30.  But others have a different ride style.  (long range cruises, off road trails, fast commuters, mixed, skate park, etc)  

We already have the perfect 'slow' EUC.  (18xl, 16x/s, inmotion v11/v12, s18, tesla).  They have all the features you want. (realistic/economic features)

What we didn't have a few years ago:

3600wh+, suspension, metal frame, 4800wh, 24" wheel, etc

Today, people have more wheel choice based on their riding preferences.  18xl is already selling so well for the 'slow' riders, why a company put effort in a 18xl update for a small bump in sales.  Whereas their efforts for a 16" suspension wheel (T4) opens up an entire market segment for sales.  

 

And for the people that think $3-4k is expensive for what you get...
- Find me a escooter with better specs for cheaper.  (there isnt)

- Find me a ebike with better specs for cheaper (there isnt)

- hobby cyclists spend $6-10k on a road bike without batting an eye.  And those don't even have any battery or high tech controller in them

- hobby photographers spend $5k+ on a single lens alone and use it <10 times per year

- hobby golfers spend more on their clubs + memberships

There are much more expensive hobbies (cars, sailing, paragliding, etc) but I think you get my point.

If you want an EUC to compare to a $1000 500wh ebike, they exist.  (mten, mcm5, v8f)
If you want an euc to compare to a $400 cheapest escooter, they exist (rockwheel?, v5f)
If you want an ebike that has 3000wh+ and go 50+, they cost $5-8k.  (More expensive than EUCs)

This is the price of being an early adopter.  Think of the diy ebike scene 10-15 years ago.  Super crappy lead acid batteries, tiny motors taken from fans that overheated, garbage top speeds and range, no screen, no pedal assist, no torque sensor, barley a usable throttle, very expensive components that are crap quality and hacked together.  
Now look at ebikes today...

If you are unhappy with being an 'early adopter', feel free to come back in a decade.  But there is a big crowd that are happy such technology exists in the present.   

 

 

 

[Murdomeek]

And for those that are wishing for 'north american' quality.

Do you really think anyone will spend $10k on a 18xl spec'd wheel? Thats what it would cost if it was made in north america.  

Heck, the Hero was gotways 'premium quality' model, and no one bought it because it was $750 more expensive.  

[Bone]

17 minutes ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

i feel like big wheels are the more commuter friendly option. they are faster and dont leave you reliant on 3rd party transportation. just ride straight to work on your master pro. our group of pocal riders all frequents outdoor seating establishments primarily 

I'm with you on this, the Master Pro is the ultimate commuter wheel for me.  I live in the suburbs with zero bike infrastructure and have to ride on a couple high speed roads to get to work, even taking back roads.  I used to commute on the EXN but I was always pushing beeps, and if I didn't charge at work I wouldn't be able to get home.  I'd also overheat in the summer, so I'd have to make stops to cool off to avoid getting high temperature tiltback in traffic.  Master Pro solves all of these issues.

But if I had to bring it on a bus or train, no thanks!  I'd definitely want something smaller for that.  Even the EXN is kind of a hassle on the train.

[Funky]

1 minute ago, Murdomeek said:

And for those that are wishing for 'north american' quality.

Do you really think anyone will spend $10k on a 18xl spec'd wheel? Thats what it would cost if it was made in north america.  

Heck, the Hero was gotways 'premium quality' model, and no one bought it because it was $750 more expensive.  

And why would it cost 10K? Most parts are imported anyways.. They will simply add USA branding or something like that. Heck even USA flag is made in China. -At least i would not be surprised, because everything is made in China.  (Sorry USA foulks, if you got offended.. Everyone are such sissys nowadays.)

[Murdomeek]

Well, the best onewheel model has worse specs than the mten3.. And costs over $2k..

Now imagine all the regulatory testing and paperworks crap a company has to go through to pass a 50mph euc, yeah $10k is a low estimate

 

[jimjam.nyc]

1 hour ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

i feel like big wheels are the more commuter friendly option. they are faster and dont leave you reliant on 3rd party transportation. just ride straight to work on your master pro. our group of pocal riders all frequents outdoor seating establishments primarily 

Fair enough. Commute is different for everyone!

[David 1200]

Mrelwood…. What I was trying to convey is that there are features not yet explored in the EUC world. Not necessarily exactly self adjusting suspension….maybe suspension that will adjust by itself by you activating it or something I don’t know. Those examples I came up with were just on the spot. I was trying to guess what I thought was reasonable predictions.

My point is that the euc world is still very young.  Another way to look at it is kind of like the smart phone market. Everything it’s pretty much the same at the moment. You just have a choice of brand and price. Smart phone market has been around much longer. Haven’t seen many big changes in the last few years……. The only big change in the last few years has been folding phones. The only big change to the EUC market has been suspension and possibly price now considering how ridiculously expensive they’re getting. Might as well just buy a car at that point.

Also I would like to counter argue the slowing down and wobbling thing…. I found by slowing down and bringing your center of gravity down low by bending your knees and leaning back all while trying to straighten the wheel out with your legs by squeezing it as much as you can….it stops the wobble. It works for me really well on the V 11….. can’t tell you how many times I stopped a wobble from getting out of control. And it works really quickly it’s not like over the course of five seconds it works almost instantaneously for me. I’m 5 1/2 feet tall and weigh 165 pounds. That might also be why it works for me I don’t know. Not making it up. I swear it works.

[MetricUSA]

I don't understand the must need for faster wheels... Every euc is still an unregistered/unlicensed vehicle... You are not allowed to go faster 40 km/h on the road, pedestrian walkways, bike paths, or allowed in certain parks, even though some of you continue to video yourself doing so, doesn't make it legit to do so... The 18xl is not a slow wheel... It's your mentally that is slow...meaning, too many people have speed addiction, but there has to be a limit somewhere... 

The only place you can legally go faster is on private property... 

Edited October 20, 2022 by MetricUSA

[Funky]

12 minutes ago, MetricUSA said:

I don't understand the must need for faster wheels... Every euc is still an unregistered/unlicensed vehicle... You are not allowed to go faster 40 km/h on the road, pedestrian walkways, bike paths, or allowed in certain parks, even though some of you continue to video yourself doing so, doesn't make it legit to do so... The 18xl is not a slow wheel... It's your mentally that is slow... 

The only place you can legally go faster is on private property... 

Perfectly said. 

Middle of city even cars can't legally go faster than 50km/h.. (But they go - i know that..)

That's right here why i'm using 18xl. I would have been happy with ks16s. But because my weight and i knew i would be riding close to ks16s speed limit. For safety reasons i went with 18xl. And it's perfect wheel for 35km/h riding speeds. (~30km/h is my most ridden speed according to EucWorld.)

And i'm 99% sure if laws are made - we will not be riding on streets, with cars. (At least in my country..) You all can forget that. Luckily where i'm from, we already don't ride with cars here.

[techyiam]

7 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Hollow core motor, display/touch screen, aluminium frame, controller output power, next gen suspension (ShermS style for example), spiked honeycomb pedals, included pads, usable head- and tail lights (V11 style), 3" tire. To name a few.

Sherman-S suspension can't be that light. Plus all the upgrades most  likely will add weight. So, how heavy would you say it will be? I doubt it will be far from the T4.

[techyiam]

35 minutes ago, Funky said:

And i'm 99% sure if laws are made - we will not be riding on streets, with cars. (At least in my country..) You all can forget that. Luckily where i'm from, we already don't ride with cars here.

Not if all the law makers in your town are avid euc riders with the Master Pro already on Preorder.

Edited October 20, 2022 by techyiam

[Funky]

55 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Sherman-S suspension can't be that light. Plus all the upgrades most  likely will add weight. So, how heavy would you say it will be? I doubt it will be far from the T4.

If that wheel goes after T4, it should be 25 to 30 kg. But at least it will be better wheel. Simply put smaller battery... 

51 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Not if all the law makers in your town are avid euc riders with the Master Pro already on Preorder.

 We here have only "small" wheels. (The outdated ones..) At least the ones i have seen in the wild. My country have small cities and like i have said we don't ride with cars. So yeah.. And those old farts in their tuxedos riding euc?  They will die - before they ride.

Edited October 20, 2022 by Funky

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Funky said:

But at least it will be better wheel. Simply put smaller battery... 

Maybe better. But, the proof will be in the pudding.

I am not sure whether others will agree with you on smaller batteries, though. 

Edited October 20, 2022 by techyiam

[Funky]

26 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Hmm. I mean, how many law makers can there be in a small town. Maybe your dad is one, for all we know. What you may NOT know is that your dad may ride gearless to his nearby hideout, where he then put on his full gear, and ride his Monster Pro, which he also stashes there, to work. 

 Laws are made true whole country.. Smaller towns simply follow what are said. But as we don't have police around, at least ones that patrol around.. More or less if nothing happens, or goes wrong - we mind our own business.

[MetricUSA]

How about this as an ideal wheel... A single sided swing arm suspension, all the suspension on one side with the equal weight in battery on the other side, which can swing up on hinges to get easy access to motor/tire... 

Even though the wheel is completely attached to suspension side, there would be an 'axil' to allow supporting the battery side but simply unbolt to get access to tire... This completely tearing apart a vehicle to get access the tire is pure BULLSHIT.... 

Edited October 20, 2022 by MetricUSA

[mrelwood]

10 hours ago, techyiam said:

Sherman-S suspension can't be that light. Plus all the upgrades most  likely will add weight. So, how heavy would you say it will be? I doubt it will be far from the T4.

Depending mainly on the base model of course. V11 suspension components weigh about 2kg total, add a better damped shocks and roller bearings and were at 3kg, a decent headlight weighs barely anything, software upgrades don't weigh anything, honeycomb pedals don't add more than maybe 0.3kg, display adds maybe 0.3kg as well, 3" tire adds 0.5kg... so we're at +4.1kg if all of the above additions were made. Though I'd be happy to see any of them implemented.

17kg MCM6 or V8.2, 21kg 16S2, 24kg V10.2, 27.5kg 16X2, 28kg 18XL2, each with all the above upgrades would all be extremely welcomed products!! And I wouldn't complain about a thing (unless they screwed something up).

[Funky]

20 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Depending mainly on the base model of course. V11 suspension components weigh about 2kg total, add a better damped shocks and roller bearings and were at 3kg, a decent headlight weighs barely anything, software upgrades don't weigh anything, honeycomb pedals don't add more than maybe 0.3kg, display adds maybe 0.3kg as well, 3" tire adds 0.5kg... so we're at +4.1kg if all of the above additions were made. Though I'd be happy to see any of them implemented.

17kg MCM6 or V8.2, 21kg 16S2, 24kg V10.2, 27.5kg 16X2, 28kg 18XL2, each with all the above upgrades would all be extremely welcomed products!! And I wouldn't complain about a thing (unless they screwed something up).

Water rating. I still don't understand something that is used in outdoors and don't have water rating... Heck in fall you ride almost everyday in heavy rain.

And in winter wheel well gets packed full of snow. That melts when you bring it in home.

Also... WHERE can i buy one of those great wheels.!!! I got my eyes on those 3. Heck if 16S2 have "better" axle - which can hold bigger weight, i would even take that.

And add bout 1kg on top of all the wheels. Because M/C "real" tires weight ~1000grams more vs regular euc tires.  That's how my 18xl got 1kg heavier. From 24.5kg to 25.6kg One day it will be ~26kg, when i get 80/90-14 tire..  

Edited October 20, 2022 by Funky

[Eucner]

I would surely want to have one, but I'm still wondering if there is a reason why they don't make under-weighted wheels for over-weighted people .

[Funky]

1 hour ago, Eucner said:

I would surely want to have one, but I'm still wondering if there is a reason why they don't make under-weighted wheels for over-weighted people .

Fattys in China are like unicorns - they are pretty rare. Not like in Europe, or king of the whales - USA.  

[Unventor]

On 10/17/2022 at 4:50 PM, Funky said:

Big wheel = big money for manufacturers $$$

Small wheel = less money for manufacturers $

Once you worked in retail sales you would know that less cost = more sales so to look at this from a profit point you need to add sale volumes. That is why the Inmotion V8 has been so successful. 

To those that seek 70mph wheel, is where would you ride it at that speed? And what do you expect will happen of a breakdown or something as simple as a puncture? 

There is very few places that you can ride an EUC at those high speeds legally. And where others around you understand a reasonable safe distance to an EUC rider. 

[Funky]

1 hour ago, Unventor said:

Once you worked in retail sales you would know that less cost = more sales so to look at this from a profit point you need to add sale volumes. That is why the Inmotion V8 has been so successful. 

I did say they need to sell 1 big wheel or 3 smaller wheels. To make same profit.

But in reality it would  be closer to 10 smaller wheels. Because they would need "X" amount of more time and manpower, to build those smaller wheels. In the end it may really be more profitable to build/sell one "big" wheel..

But yes in market cheaper, less expensive sells more. Same time also "new" and "shiny" sells well - at least for few weeks/months.