Extremebull Commander Pro (134.4v,3600wh,suspension)

[Rawnei]

It would be a bit funny complaining about Sherman S torque considering it's currently at the top place in the pull force test.

[EUC Sharkman]

8 hours ago, mrelwood said:

While agreeable in theory, I haven’t heard anyone mention the ShermS torque or top speed to be lacking. I seem to remember 80km/h as the max speed in high speed mode.

I got nothing against the Sherman S, but I personally wouldn't want to have shelled out nearly $1000 US more for a wheel only to later find out "Oh...so THAT was the limitation of the Sherman S being 100v".

 

80 km/h as max speed, but I think @Ronin Ryderdid a good job in his video articulating the difference in PWM levels at ~52mph between the EX30, Commander Pro, and Sherman S. Sherman S was in the 90's in PWM while the Commander Pro was in the mid 80's and EX30 high 70's. On top of that, the Sherman S PWM level was with a lighter weight rider. Admittedly, I don't go past 45 often, but I bank on that headroom being there for the times I do venture into the 50's so I don't flirt too much with the cutout zone. I will say though that the voltage sag in 134V is more than I'm used to past 100V wheels.

 

Regarding torque, I haven't ridden a Sherman S, but I just came back from a sunrise ride in SF and I blasted up those steep streets almost effortlessly... just by flexing my feet it felt like. I had stock pads on but I only really used them to break. It felt amazing and was addicting getting to speed so fast up a slope, not exactly what I'm used to at my heavier riding weight. It's the performance I think of and expect now when I hear "134v wheel."

 

Now, this COULD be like it is for the Sherman S too but if not, like, if I had to lean into my pads to go up the hills, then yeah... I'd be disappointed.

Edited May 29, 2023 by EUC Sharkman

[mrelwood]

It’s great that there are choices, since riders prioritize so different aspects in a wheel. As long as the purchases are properly educated ones, and not based on misconceptions.

1 hour ago, EUC Sharkman said:

Now, this COULD be like it is for the Sherman S too but if not, like, if I had to lean into my pads to go up the hills, then yeah... I'd be disappointed.

What you describe has nothing to do with the wheel’s (peak) torque. The amount is effort it takes to accelerate or climb an incline comes from other things entirely.

 Lots if discussions exist on the effort it takes to accelerate.

Edited May 29, 2023 by mrelwood

[GitDatPC]

[EUC Sharkman]

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

It’s great that there are choices, since riders prioritize so different aspects in a wheel. As long as the purchases are properly educated ones, and not based on misconceptions.

What you describe has nothing to do with the wheel’s (peak) torque. The amount is effort it takes to accelerate or climb an incline comes from other things entirely.

 Lots if discussions exist on the effort it takes to accelerate.

I'm ok with that, and I'm fine with recognizing that I'm likely misusing the term when it comes to EUCs. I think the usage that I'm more familiar with is in regards to something like how much towing force a truck can tow, with higher torque being able to pull a heavier load.

 

Admittedly I'm not sure where that plays into a wheel's ridefeel, but it's more the point that I do value the ability of a wheel to accelerate and get off the line or climb slopes with as little effort as possible. It's been one of my key factors in choosing a wheel, which the Commander Pro delivers.

 

[mrelwood]

2 minutes ago, EUC Sharkman said:

I'm ok with that, and I'm fine with recognizing that I'm likely misusing the term when it comes to EUCs. I think the usage that I'm more familiar with is in regards to something like how much towing force a truck can tow, with higher torque being able to pull a heavier load.

That’s a reasonable usage, no problems there. But the maximum available torque doesn’t explain how deep you have to push the tow truck’s gas pedal for the towing to happen (meaning, the effort it requires).

 

2 minutes ago, EUC Sharkman said:

I do value the ability of a wheel to accelerate and get off the line or climb slopes with as little effort as possible.

I don’t know if you have had the chance to ride smaller diameter wheels than your Nikola, but the Mten is an extreme example on how you can barely think about accelerating and it already goes. The effort required to accelerate is minimal. But the maximum available torque is pretty low.

 Another factor is the riding mode. Medium mode requires less effort than hard mode.

 Then there’s the weight. A heavy wheel requires more effort to change the speed of it’s mass.

 Then there are also large differences in how each manufacturer code their riding behaviors. Essentially, one might have sort of like an acceleration assist built in, like I’d say that Sherman and SherMax kind of do. I think you might’ve had good luck with EB possibly having a similar behavior.

[techyiam]

Zen Lee gave his thoughts on the Commander Pro. This the same wheel that he raced in Spain. 

In particular, he rated the suspension highly. Somewhat better than what I would have expected. But I have never ridden a Commander Pro.

Time-stamped. 

 

 

[EUC Sharkman]

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

That’s a reasonable usage, no problems there. But the maximum available torque doesn’t explain how deep you have to push the tow truck’s gas pedal for the towing to happen (meaning, the effort it requires).

 

I don’t know if you have had the chance to ride smaller diameter wheels than your Nikola, but the Mten is an extreme example on how you can barely think about accelerating and it already goes. The effort required to accelerate is minimal. But the maximum available torque is pretty low.

 Another factor is the riding mode. Medium mode requires less effort than hard mode.

 Then there’s the weight. A heavy wheel requires more effort to change the speed of it’s mass.

 Then there are also large differences in how each manufacturer code their riding behaviors. Essentially, one might have sort of like an acceleration assist built in, like I’d say that Sherman and SherMax kind of do. I think you might’ve had good luck with EB possibly having a similar behavior.

I am aware of the factors you mention as I've seen these in action when riding different wheels. I also have an MTen3, MCM5V2, and a V11 but I don't list them in my profile since they're more my kids wheels than mine. I honestly was really only thinking about the EX30, CPro, and Sherman S since up until now, I was really only looking for an upgrade to my EX20S in that 20" 3600Wh suspension wheel category.

 

Also, it wasn't good luck, but the gathering of impressions from riders familiar with the CPro, particularly those also familiar with Sherman or the Sherman Max like in this particular forum thread, and riders who own the wheel. Torque may or may not have been used correctly I'm these impressions but I got a pretty good idea of how the three wheels differ and what I was looking for.

[Paradox]

12 hours ago, EUC Sharkman said:

I was really only looking for an upgrade to my EX20S

Seated riding on my Ex20s is the best.  Have you found a good way to mount a seat on the CP?

[GitDatPC]

15 minutes ago, Paradox said:

Seated riding on my Ex20s is the best.  Have you found a good way to mount a seat on the CP?

Velcro and a center console arm cushion 😁👍

[Paradox]

13 minutes ago, GitDatPC said:

Velcro and a center console arm cushion 😁👍

Is the trolley handle usable?  How is the velcro secured to the wheel?  Looks great.  Is it stable?

Thanks,

Edited May 30, 2023 by Paradox

[GitDatPC]

44 minutes ago, Paradox said:

Is the trolley handle usable?  How is the velcro secured to the wheel?  Looks great.  Is it stable?

Thanks,

Thanks 👍 Yep, I just move the seat around on the velcro as needed. I'll stick it down in front of the handle when I need to trolley it around

[EUC Sharkman]

4 hours ago, GitDatPC said:

Thanks 👍 Yep, I just move the seat around on the velcro as needed. I'll stick it down in front of the handle when I need to trolley it around

I use this seat too! Thanks for supplying the link...great seat for just about $20. I use Velcro as well...just on the top side cushions on the wheel. To use the trolley, I just flip the seat on one of its sides by unvelcroing one side, then pull the handle up.

 

I did find the memory foam to be a bit too soft while riding. It felt like I was slipping off the seat! I ended up taking it out and making a block out of cut and stacked yoga mat, which is firm but still a bit soft. Then I taped it together and put it back into the case. May try to find another place to use the memory foam.

Edited May 30, 2023 by EUC Sharkman

[Ronin Ryder]

I designed this foldable seat system for the Commander Pro. The seat itself is quite comfortable, not wider than the wheel, and the trolley handle fully useable. I can also install any other flat seat with it as well. The files are available there for those interested.

https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/various/commander-pro-seat-system

Edited May 31, 2023 by Ronin Ryder

[EUC Sharkman]

My impressions on my 2nd week, about 300 miles in.

Took the wheel on a couple of my long routes thus far, plus one fast city group ride. I still have the stock knobby on there but I'm looking to get my 90/90-14 Michelin City Grip 2 tire on there as I'm intrigued by the wide and round shape of that tire on the CPro rim. Two riders have put this tire on and enjoy the characteristics.

I got two MagicShine bike lights for a headlight (900s) and a taillight (seemee 200) on recommendation from @EMA. Both lights work great for visibility and keeping the path lit when going fast speeds at night.

I took the CPro on a ride today and brought it into a restaurant for a lunch break. I cannot overstate how much I appreciate how much more compact this wheel is compared to my EX20S. It was very easy to hide my Commander Pro lying on its front bumpers under a table out of the way of anyone. I always felt when I took my EX20S into a similar situation that it was very inconvenient. And having handles built in to make it easier to carry is a nice touch. I'm never second guessing where I should grab the wheel to comfortably lift it. A lot of folks make their own handles for the Master style design but they honestly should come with them built in. Makes a world of difference.

The speed off the line and the climbing power is still refreshing to me. I'm used to chugging and creaking up slopes but now I feel much safer really leaning in to use that power to zoom up the hills. It does seem to sap that battery more quickly.

I do have a weird issue with one of my pedals. I have to keep tightening the screw that keeps the pedal folded up. It's not a big deal but it is kind of a pain to pull the Allen wrench out to tighten it when it gets loose, which is often. Any recommendations for this? Should I grab some blue locktite?

Other than that, no complaints! I'm not shy in telling people this is my choice for wheel of the year simply because it's a great fit for what I want after 2 and a half years of riding. I see people buying and assembling expensive fairing kits and shock and linkages and pedals and I'm like... that's cool but...I'm good with what came out of the box. Less modding, more riding!

Edited June 5, 2023 by EUC Sharkman

[Nciau]

I’ve had mine for about a week and my display and lights won’t turn on anymore but wheel balances. I took apart the wheel and put it back together. I’m not sure what I did. There’s a flashing red light on blue control unit. 

[BKW]

5 hours ago, Nciau said:

I’ve had mine for about a week and my display and lights won’t turn on anymore but wheel balances. I took apart the wheel and put it back together. I’m not sure what I did. There’s a flashing red light on blue control unit. 

Was the EUC fine before you took it apart? I'm curious to know if this was due to a fault of your own or it is a faulty product in general?

As far as your concern, I'm not sure what you mean by "red light on blue control unit"; I'm not sure what you're referring to. If you're referring to something on the motherboard, then I could only assume:

1. Make sure all connections are connected on the mobo
2. check to see if any wires are pinched, especially due to how tight everything is in there
3. try not to have any of the wires touch the metal charge ports (i'm just guessing on this one)

Taking a picture of the motherboard and all the wires might be a good idea for others to diagnose. As well as a picture of the "red light on blue control unit".

[EMA]

22 hours ago, Nciau said:

I’ve had mine for about a week and my display and lights won’t turn on anymore but wheel balances. I took apart the wheel and put it back together. I’m not sure what I did. There’s a flashing red light on blue control unit. 

open the top and check, each thing has it's wire, easy to check.

the light you see is on the BT module (reflecting to the board)

[techyiam]

In her latest video, Dawn Champion rates the Commander Pro above the EX30. She pointed out that for her and a few others, when riding above 50 mph GPS, it is easier to over-torque the EX30 than the Commander Pro. 

 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2023 by techyiam

[TheNotoriousEUC]

Finally! My Commander Pro arrived this morning. Supposed to be a Batch 3 but I am pretty sure it is a 2. Plastic handles front and back as well as the trolley handle. I have been following the community for just over a year now. Went through a long period of deciding what it is that I want. I ran the gamut of Master, S22, V12, Sherman Max, then the Sherman S…..and just when I was about to pull the trigger on the Sherman S, the Commander Pro was announced and I waited. Despite the trash review by eevee’s I decided by Batch 3 the issues would be ironed out like most wheels I had been following.

Yes it’s my first wheel. Yes, before I opened the box this morning, I had never even seen a wheel in person. I know it isn’t considered a first wheel but I also know I plan on riding it a lot and didn’t want to be bored with a slower starter wheel I immediately would want to replace. Needless to say, I am pretty happy right now. It has been a long, patient wait. 🙏🏾

[Hellkitten]

@TheNotoriousEUC Congratulations on your first wheel! Keep us posted on your learning progress. 👍👍🎉🎉

[TheNotoriousEUC]

2 hours ago, Hellkitten said:

@TheNotoriousEUC Congratulations on your first wheel! Keep us posted on your learning progress. 👍👍🎉🎉

Thank you! It’s rain here today and I learned quickly the garage isn’t quite big enough but I did get some learning done. My regular life is coaching, it’s all I do so tomorrow I am heading out early to our facility to get a lot more time in. I put on all the Velcro for the Grizzla pads but will let them keep adhering until tomorrow. I have a LOT of space indoors and out. Carpet, concrete, asphalt….probably in that order tomorrow.

Edited June 13, 2023 by TheNotoriousEUC

[BKW]

I did my first ever no break 12 hour shift on an EUC doing food delivery with the commander pro. Roughly 12 hours I was left with 15%-20% battery life according to begode app. According to google maps timeline I did 61.4 miles, but not sure how accurate that is (I don’t really pay attention to the begode app or CP screen yet for miles). With food delivery, especially lately, it’s been slow so there are down times waiting between orders and not riding at those times. I specifically remember riding hard at times with traffic as well as sometimes not, so probably overall I rode “medium” aggression.

just some insight I guess. Usually, for a 6 hour shift I do 40 miles. So once again, not sure how accurate the miles are on Google maps

[BKW]

Update on my CP's motor "twitch effect":

I've reported on this thread there is a very slight twitch that happens with the motor when the wheel idles. It's so small at times it's hardly noticeable and does not concern me as I imagine it to be somewhat normal -- almost as if a firmware update would fix it. I keep thinking about recording it happening, but sometimes you can't even see it (only feel it), and other times it's a little stronger of a twitch where you can see it.

Regardless, it doesn't concern me anymore as I've put 1K+ miles on the commander pro at this point going at all speeds and distances and aggressions. Someone else has reported the same twitch effect on their CP as well, so probably fairly common for many CP owners.

Update on the K340A street tire I installed:

My CP came with the knobby stock tire. Riding that tire felt very smooth and I also felt like it did good at turning. My first impressions of the knobby was that it felt like it wanted to tip over fairly easily at low speeds, which made me feel insecure in bike lanes at slow speeds; hence, my impression was that the CP was "a wheel for high speeds due to greater stability at those speeds". Later I installed the K340A, and as a novice when it comes to EUC tires, when I first got on it the street tire it DID NOT WANT TO TURN without serious effort. It was very strange to me why it didn't want to turn. What I later came to hypothesize after riding the tire for a while was that it likely just needed wearing in because now it feels incredibly responsive at all speeds both low and high. It also had a weird wobble/rough feel to the street tire that took some time to eventually smooth out (I'm not really sure what was causing that, but now it's butter smooth).

I feel I made a good choice going with the street tire because now it feels stable and responsive at both low and high speeds. Please keep in mind my first impressions tend to change drastically with time, so likely the knobby might have started to wear in a bit and feel more stable at low speeds, who knows, but initially it did feel like the knobby wanted to tilt over more at slow speeds.

Suspension after 1K miles:

Just as good as when it arrived. I have it dialed in to how I like it now and it feels very comfortable to me. There are no jolting/sticking mechanical movements; it feels smooth, even now. This is my first suspension wheel so I can't really compare it to any other suspension wheel, but I can compare it to my non-suspension wheels. Comparing the CP's suspension to my non-suspension wheels, I've come to appreciate more and more the subtle, and sometimes not so subtle, advantages of the suspension. For example, brick roads were a mess on my non-suspension wheels, but with the CP it's almost an afterthought. I've noticed "bonking" up on curbs almost doesn't exist with the CP suspension -- if it does, it feels lessened by a huge margin to where the wheel does not bonk and it's just absorbed(?) (at least the curbs I've done).

Simplified overall impression after 1K miles:

No issues with this wheel so far. If anything, it feels like I've unlocked all its potential now with dialed in suspension, preferred power pads set-up, getting to know the wheel better, etc. All wheels I get and I ride I tend to appreciate more with time, and the CP is no exception to this. I have said that the CP has greater acceleration when comparing to the Sherman Max, but when I got back on the Sherman Max after not being on it in a while the Sherman Max felt very zippy much like the CP, so I think there might be some placebo effect / bias going on in favor of the CP, but I'm not sure (this would need proper testing to know for sure).

Floppy pedals:

The only negative I've noticed so far with the CP is that the pedals seem to be prone to becoming floppy, and in such a fashion that no matter how tight you screw them they just flop regardless (some CP owners have also reported this to me). Putting a magnet to keep the pedal up is a little different than how you might do it on a Sherman because of how the hanger goes out further and how the body of the CP is indented where you would put a magnet.

I had some cheap magnets lying around from my KS16X floppy pedal fix so I quickly put them on the CP and they seem to work out (although, I would preferably like stronger magnets). I have noticed no negative affects on my ankles or pedal grip due to where I put the magnets and I do not notice them when riding:

 

Edited June 14, 2023 by BKW

[mrelwood]

 

12 hours ago, TheNotoriousEUC said:

I have a LOT of space indoors and out. Carpet, concrete, asphalt….probably in that order tomorrow.

Word of warning: Carpets are usually horrible as hell on an EUC. The hairs on a carpet can kill any ability to ride straight or go where you want. I suggest skipping that step altogether.

 

2 hours ago, BKW said:

Later I installed the K340A, and as a novice when it comes to EUC tires, when I first got on it the street tire it DID NOT WANT TO TURN without serious effort.

This is very normal when switching from a knobby to a street tire, I’ve seen it many times. As you described, with the knobby the wheel tries to fall to the side at slower speeds. A street tire doesn’t do this, it cancels your sideways lean instead by turning. You just need a little time to adjust to the street tire steering.

 

2 hours ago, BKW said:

I have said that the CP has greater acceleration when comparing to the Sherman Max, but when I got back on the Sherman Max after not being on it in a while the Sherman Max felt very zippy much like the CP, so I think there might be some placebo effect / bias going on

The ride mode affects the zippyness a lot. Sherman and CP surely have different ride mode presets, so I wouldn’t be surprised if there were some difference despite that. Even if you test with the same mode on both, the Sherman medium can be closer to CP soft than medium. So direct comparisons aren’t always very obvious.