Sherman-S 3600wh: 100V, 20", suspension, 97lb

[Clem604]

7 minutes ago, wstuart said:

I got to ride one of these today.  Felt like riding a cloud, on top of a pillow, on top of a pile of fluffy kittens..... absolute game changer.  

That's what I thought as well. I was able to ride down a small set of stairs repeatedly and I just loved the way the wheel felt when doing that.

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Clem604 said:

That's what I thought as well. I was able to ride down a small set of stairs repeatedly and I just loved the way the wheel felt when doing that.

You were able to move from a V11 to the Sherman-S demo and went down the steps, that pretty good.

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, wstuart said:

I got to ride one of these today.  Felt like riding a cloud, on top of a pillow, on top of a pile of fluffy kittens..... absolute game changer.  

Did it take more rider input to accelerate and brake than your Sherman Max? 

[Clem604]

3 hours ago, techyiam said:

You were able to move from a V11 to the Sherman-S demo and went down the steps, that pretty good.

To be fair, it's that small 3 set inside of Eevees 😅. The wheel felt heavier for sure but wasn't as unmanageable as I expected compared to the V11. I was able to ride it pretty competently even just riding it inside for about 20 minutes. I'm excited to put thousands of km's on it when I get mine.

 

Edited December 28, 2022 by Clem604

[techyiam]

14 minutes ago, Clem604 said:

To be fair it's that small 3 set inside of Eevees

That's what I assumed. Your V11 weighs about 60 lbs. and the Sherman-S weighs about 97 lbs. That's a big step.

It's good to know that you could get comfortable enough to go down those steps in such short amount of time.

Super experienced rider like Marty dropped the Sherman-S on his first attempt to free mount. And then Black Cobra was saying how he didn't like riding the Sherman-S initially. So I wasn't sure how difficult it would be to ride the Sherman-S.

[Clem604]

2 minutes ago, techyiam said:

That's what I assumed. Your V11 weighs about 60 lbs. and the Sherman-S weighs about 97 lbs. That's a big step.

It's good to know that you could get comfortable enough to go down those steps in such short amount of time.

Super experienced rider like Marty dropped the Sherman-S on his first attempt to free mount. And then Black Cobra was saying how he didn't like riding the Sherman-S initially. So I wasn't sure how difficult it would be to ride the Sherman-S.

Inputs take more effort and it feels heavier to turn compared to the V11 but isn't so much of a step up that I didn't think I could get used to it. I was surprised at how fast I was able to ride to the wheel, especially because I was just riding it around the store. 

[UPONIT]

Just now, Clem604 said:

Inputs take more effort and it feels heavier to turn compared to the V11 but isn't so much of a step up that I didn't think I could get used to it. I was surprised at how fast I was able to ride to the wheel, especially because I was just riding it around the store. 

Did you feel you were noticeably higher off the ground than with the V11? Was your COG much different?

[Paul A]

V13 weighs more at 110lbs, and has smaller battery capacity.

If the Sherman S turns out to be everything it should be......it'll be the Louisville Slugger of EUCs.

[Clem604]

2 hours ago, UPONIT said:

Did you feel you were noticeably higher off the ground than with the V11? Was your COG much different?

The pedals are higher than the V11 but seeming not by any significant amount that I could notice. Riding it around it didn't feel much, if any, taller than my V11. Now the Master Pro on the other hand 😬

Edited December 28, 2022 by Clem604

[Clem604]

This is the only picture I have that kind of shows the height of the pedals. 

Edited December 28, 2022 by Clem604

[MrMonoWheel]

17 minutes ago, Clem604 said:

This is the only picture I have that kinda shows the height of the pedals. 

That's one good looking wheel 

 

[Freeforester]

7 hours ago, Clem604 said:

This is the only picture I have that kinda shows the height of the pedals. 

Looking at the pedals, it doesn’t seem too likely that the structural integrity of them would be threatened  by a little judicious use of a file or dremel on the raised edges, particularly those perpendicular to both direction of travel and the rider’s foot? That said, I’d personally go for Nylonove, because of the weight saving and their forgiving nature as compared with pedals made of metal. I’d not be too keen to drill and tap Chinesium to insert threaded spikes, but that’s just me, and no, I’m not a qualified metallurgist either!

[MexicanBatman]

after conducting my initial shake down like i do for almost all new wheels i get, as seen here...

 

i decided to do a few more miles and then take a peek inside

 

and well here's something that i don't currently see as an issue, however...

 

note i don't describe it correctly in this video short, but basically it's flex in the battey housing causing minor rubbing, i do NOT believe a metal clamp between the "fork" legs will improve the stiffness of this wheel or reduce the flex at this point..

 

 

[Rawnei]

46 minutes ago, MexicanBatman said:

after conducting my initial shake down like i do for almost all new wheels i get, as seen here...

i decided to do a few more miles and then take a peek inside

and well here's something that i don't currently see as an issue, however...

note i don't describe it correctly in this video short, but basically it's flex in the battey housing causing minor rubbing, i do NOT believe a metal clamp between the "fork" legs will improve the stiffness of this wheel or reduce the flex at this point..

 

 

Nice video!

Probably why Begode put all those pom wheels on the Commander Pro to avoid that type of wear, I wonder what it means in the long term.

[Clem604]

4 hours ago, Freeforester said:

 That said, I’d personally go for Nylonove, because of the weight saving and their forgiving nature as compared with pedals made of metal. 

Agreed but I only see the pedals with the "Bite" tech currently. If/when they release a Nylonove pedal without that for the Sherman-S I would be on board for sure, if even just to make the wheel lighter slightly.

Edited December 28, 2022 by Clem604

[UPONIT]

11 hours ago, MrMonoWheel said:

That's one good looking wheel 

 

It really is.

I wish I could afford both the S-S and V13. They both meet my "hill climbing" need. Everything else is just... exciting and potentially ground breaking in very different ways. I'm just gonna hold out as long as possible and hope something happens to make the choice easier. Since I won't be able to try out the S-S, opinions will really matter.

It's good to have such choices, though.

Hope your delivery happens soon!

[Clem604]

3 hours ago, UPONIT said:

It really is.

I wish I could afford both the S-S and V13. They both meet my "hill climbing" need. Everything else is just... exciting and potentially ground breaking in very different ways. I'm just gonna hold out as long as possible and hope something happens to make the choice easier. Since I won't be able to try out the S-S, opinions will really matter.

It's good to have such choices, though.

Hope your delivery happens soon!

Originally I was holding out hope that InMotion was going to make a V11 "Pro" of some sort. A V11 with 84/100V and a 1800-2000wh battery would really hit the sweet spot for many people, myself included. They may just do that in spirit with the smaller V13 based wheel that they are apparently working on. I'm also excited to see the smaller wheel that Leaperkim has been working on as well. Having more choices is always a good thing.

Edited December 28, 2022 by Clem604

[MrMonoWheel]

2 hours ago, Clem604 said:

Originally I was holding out hope that InMotion was going to make a V11 "Pro" of some sort. A V11 with 84/100V and a 1800-2000wh battery would really hit the sweet spot for many people, myself included. They may just do that in spirit with the smaller V13 based wheel that they are apparently working on. I'm also excited to see the smaller wheel that Veteran has been working on. Having more choices is always a good thing.

I agree. I currently am keeping the v11 to fit that smaller wheel position but if they release a smaller v13 type wheel with the same build quality and safety I will definitely buy it. I didn't know Sherman was working on a smaller wheel, got any more details?

As far as my wheel goes, it's cleared customs and is awaiting pickup by UPS. Optimally it will get here by the end of the week but realistically it will probably arrive next week.

[wstuart]

19 hours ago, techyiam said:

Did it take more rider input to accelerate and brake than your Sherman Max? 

No it didn't.  I actually felt the braking was as good as my Sherman max but the acceleration wasnt. Part of that came from the wheel, but I think most of it came from me feeling nervous and not having the pads exactly where I would put them.  The owner told me he felt the same way but that as he got more accustomed to the wheel the braking and acceleration got better.

Below is my review of the Sherman S.  Keep on mind that I am 6'8" 240lbs and that I've only been riding for one year (~23k miles). 

Here is is the short version. I did not like this wheel and did not get comfortable on it in the 20 minutes that I rode it.  I still intend to get one though as I feel I will be able to change the settings to work for me. 

The wheel felt about as high as my V11 (when my v11 is running 140+psi and 99+psi).  It did not feel as high as the Master I rode, and it felt as high as my EX.  It's worth noting though that with the V11 and EX (and I suspect in the Sherman S) the feeling of "highness" varies greatly with suspension setting.  I can make my EX and V11 feel drastically different and less/more stable by changing the height of the pedals with suspension pressure.  For this reason I don't put a lot of stock in people's comments about how high a wheel feels.  I thought the Sherman S I rode felt "too high" but that doesn't influence my purchasing decision at all because I know I am just a half turn with a screw driver away from lowering it to the perfect height for me.   My experience with suspension wheels has always been that I think they feel too high at first so I lower the suspension and as I get used to the wheel I raise the suspension higher and run it stiffer.  The same will happen here.

So yes the Sherman S did feel high up and extremely tippy and nimble - especially in low speed tight turns.  I rode it for 20 minutes and by the end I still wasn't comfortable in low speed maneuvering.  I felt like the tire had too much pressure and that was casing it to feel tippy. I could sort of feel the Kenda knobby transition onto the outer row of knobs.  My insecurity on the wheel made it hard for me to accelerate and brake hard.  I strongly suspected though that most of what I was feeling came from the tire having too much air.   The owner said it had 35 psi in it.  When I run 35psi on my EX and my v11 and I pump up the suspension so that there is less sag, both my V11 and my EX feel super sketchy and very similar to how this Sherman S felt.  When I reduce my EX tire pressure to 28psi and lower the suspension, it absolutely transforms the wheel for me and turns very stable.  I really wanted to let some air out of the tire of this Sherman S and change the compression on the suspension, but it was someone else's wheel.

Here is what is unique about this wheel and why I am still wanting to purchase it.

Every other sketchy/tippy suspension wheel I've ridden (EX, Master, V11)  felt sketchy at low speed and wobbly and scary at high speed.  This is the only wheel I've ever been on where the sketchyness at low speed absolutely melts away and becomes stable at high speeds.  As I took it past 25mph the wheel became so much more stable and I was even able to carve.  Also when I would brake accelerate and turn/carve at higher speeds (15-30mph), the Sherman S was very comfortable and I couldn't get it to wobble.  Under 15mph this wheel felt like the worst I've ever ridden.  This contrast was so pronounced that I found myself picking routes where I wouldn't have to slow down because I was actually afraid to go slow - I really didn't want to drop my friends wheel. I have NEVER experienced this before.  It was absolutely bizarre to me that this wheel felt like it was gonna fall out from under me at low speed but was impossible to speed wobble at high speed.  I've ridden 12 other wheels and I've never experienced this.

The other thing that blew me away was the suspension.  With this suspension you can have your cake and eat it too - it soaks up the small stuff and rides like a pillow, but also won't bottom out.  It was COMPLETELY different from the 3 other suspension wheels I've ridden.  I suspect this has something to do with the high-speed stability.

To comment on other sticking points.  Yes the wheel feels heavy to carry, but the position and height of the amazing  handles make it feel as light as a Sherman Max to me.  While riding , the wheel did not feel heavy, but again I'm tall and heavy.

The pedals are not as slippy as I thought they would be.  I was wearing very slippy bottom shoes but they seemed to grip fine.  I think for street riding these pedals are fine, but my experience has been that for offroad I have to have spikes.

I didn't do seated riding because I don't know how. 

Hope this helps!

Edited December 28, 2022 by wstuart

[BKW]

13 minutes ago, wstuart said:

No it didn't.  I actually felt the braking was as good as my Sherman max but the acceleration wasnt. Part of that came from the wheel, but I think most of it came from me feeling nervous and not having the pads exactly where I would put them.  The owner told me he felt the same way but that as he got more accustomed to the wheel the braking and acceleration got better.

Below is my review of the Sherman S.  Keep on mind that I am 6'8" 240lbs and that I've only been riding for one year (~23k miles). 

Here is is the short version. I did not like this wheel and did not get comfortable on it in the 20 minutes that I rode it.  I still intend to get one though as I feel I will be able to change the settings to work for me. 

The wheel felt about as high as my V11 (when my v11 is running 140+psi and 99+psi).  It did not feel as high as the Master I rode, and it felt as high as my EX.  It's worth noting though that with the V11 and EX (and I suspect in the Sherman S) the feeling of "highness" varies greatly with suspension setting.  I can make my EX and V11 feel drastically different and less/more stable by changing the height of the pedals with suspension pressure.  For this reason I don't put a lot of stock in people's comments about how high a wheel feels.  I thought the Sherman S I rode felt "too high" but that doesn't influence my purchasing decision at all because I know I am just a half turn with a screw driver away from lowering it to the perfect height for me.   My experience with suspension wheels has always been that I think they feel too high at first so I lower the suspension and as I get used to the wheel I raise the suspension higher and run it stiffer.  The same will happen here.

So yes the Sherman S did feel high up and extremely tippy and nimble - especially in low speed tight turns.  I rode it for 20 minutes and by the end I still wasn't comfortable in low speed maneuvering.  I felt like the tire had too much pressure and that was casing it to feel tippy. I could sort of feel the Kenda knobby transition onto the outer row of knobs.  My insecurity on the wheel made it hard for me to accelerate and brake hard.  I strongly suspected though that most of what I was feeling came from the tire having too much air.   The owner said it had 35 psi in it.  When I run 35psi on my EX and my v11 and I pump up the suspension so that there is less sag, both my V11 and my EX feel super sketchy and very similar to how this Sherman S felt.  When I reduce my EX tire pressure to 28psi and lower the suspension, it absolutely transforms the wheel for me and turns very stable.  I really wanted to let some air out of the tire of this Sherman S and change the compression on the suspension, but it was someone else's wheel.

Here is what is unique about this wheel and why I am still wanting to purchase it.

Every other sketchy/tippy suspension wheel I've ridden (EX, Master, V11)  felt sketchy at low speed and wobbly and scary at high speed.  This is the only wheel I've ever been on where the sketchyness at low speed absolutely melts away and becomes stable at high speeds.  As I took it past 25mph the wheel became so much more stable and I was even able to carve.  Also when I would brake accelerate and turn/carve at higher speeds (15-30mph), the Sherman S was very comfortable and I couldn't get it to wobble.  Anything under 15mph and this felt like the worst wheel I've ever ridden.  This contrast was so pronounced that I found myself picking routes where I wouldn't have to slow down because I was actually afraid to go slow - I really didn't want to drop my friends wheel. I have NEVER experienced this before.  It was absolutely bizarre to me that this wheel felt like it was gonna fall out from under me at any second at low speed but be impossible to speed wobble at high speed.  I've ridden 12 other wheels and I've never experienced this.

The other thing that blew me away was the suspension.  With this suspension you can have your cake and eat it too - it soaks up the small stuff and rides like a pillow, but also won't bottom out.  It was COMPLETELY different from the 3 other suspension wheels I've ridden.  I suspect this has something to do with the high-speed stability.

To comment on other sticking points.  Yes the wheel feels heavy to carry, but the position and height of the amazing  handles make it feel as light as a Sherman Max to me.  While riding , the wheel did not feel heavy, but again I'm tall and heavy.

The pedals are not as slippy as I thought they would be.  I was wearing very slippy bottom shoes but they seemed to grip fine.  I think for street riding these pedals are fine, but my experience has been that for offroad I have to have spikes.

I didn't do seated riding because I don't know how. 

Hope this helps!

First off, 6'8" with a Mten3? You may deserve a medal my friend (jk)!

Secondly, this is a different and very helpful perspective and thank you for sharing! My suspicion, as I have not rode this wheel myself, is that you are likely indeed used to lower PSI, and therefore this explained the "sketchiness" at low speeds (also, the new Kenda tire does feel like it wants to dip when turning sharp). I say this is likely the case because others have reviewed this wheel thus far and you're the first to seem to mention this unrelated to "top heaviness".

Edited December 28, 2022 by BKW

[wstuart]

6 minutes ago, BKW said:

First off, 6'8" with a Mten3? You may deserve a medal my friend (jk)!

Secondly, this is a different and very helpful perspective and thank you for sharing! My suspicion, as I have not rode this wheel myself, is that you are likely indeed used to lower PSI, and therefore this explained the "sketchiness" at low speeds (also, the new Kenda tire does feel like it wants to dip when turning sharp). I say this is likely the case because others have reviewed this wheel thus far and you're the first to seem to mention this unrelated to "top heaviness".

Yes, but I fried the board on my mten3.  I font know if that makes me more deserving of a medal or less deserving.

You are correct, I did not attribute the wheels tipyness to top-heavy-Ness.

I would describe the Master and S22 I've ridden as feeling top heavy.  The s22 felt top heavy and stable.  The master felt top heavy and unstable.  Topheaviness and stability are not the same thing, but I think alot of people mix them up and say that and wheel that has high pedals and tips easily is "top heavy".

From my experience top heaviness come from the center of mass of the wheel while stability comes from pedal height relative to the axel (among many other things).  If you have a wheel with high pedals that is also topheavy (Master) , the topheavines will make the instability even worse.

I can tell the difference because of my experience on the EX.  The EX is about as bottom heavy as a wheel can get (heavy c40 motor with suspension down low).  However, I can still make it feel unstable by pumping up the tire and suspension.  Incontrast, the s22 might be the top heaviest wheel with its super heavy suspension way up high and relatively light battery down low.  However the s22 I rode felt super stable - probably because the owner set the suspension low.  

In terms of top/bottom heavy, I would describe the Sherman S as feeling neutral - like my v11.

 

[Clem604]

2 hours ago, MrMonoWheel said:

I agree. I currently am keeping the v11 to fit that smaller wheel position but if they release a smaller v13 type wheel with the same build quality and safety I will definitely buy it. I didn't know Sherman was working on a smaller wheel, got any more details?

As far as my wheel goes, it's cleared customs and is awaiting pickup by UPS. Optimally it will get here by the end of the week but realistically it will probably arrive next week.

According to Eevees, Leaperkim have been working on a smaller wheel that may be announced next month. They don't have anymore information on the size and spec of the wheel but I suppose we will find out in the coming month(s).

[That Guy]

7 hours ago, Clem604 said:

According to Eevees, Leaperkim have been working on a smaller wheel that may be announced next month. They don't have anymore information on the size and spec of the wheel but I suppose we will find out in the coming month(s).

Oh, imagine that!! Where did Eevees mentioned it?

Should we start a new topic "New smaller wheel from LeaperKim speculations"? 

Edited December 29, 2022 by That Guy

[MrMonoWheel]

15 minutes ago, That Guy said:

Oh, imagine that!! Where did Eevees mentioned it?

Should we start a new topic "New smaller wheel from LeaperKim speculations"? 

I'd be down, although I have a sneaking suspicion if I were to buy a smaller wheel to go with my Sherman S (and replace my v11) it would be from inmotion. If they manage to scale down the best parts of the V13 that's gonna be a killer wheel.

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, That Guy said:

Should we start a new topic "New smaller wheel from LeaperKim speculations"? 

There’s nothing to go on by just yet, but I’m sure the discussion will be very active immediately after the announcement that should happen next month.

50 minutes ago, MrMonoWheel said:

I'd be down, although I have a sneaking suspicion if I were to buy a smaller wheel to go with my Sherman S (and replace my v11) it would be from inmotion. If they manage to scale down the best parts of the V13 that's gonna be a killer wheel.

I’m in the same boat, although I have a sneaking suspension () that it will be a 16x3” suspension wheel to compete with the T4. Like a V12 with suspension.

Edited December 29, 2022 by mrelwood