Sherman-S 3600wh: 100V, 20", suspension, 97lb

[wstuart]

14 hours ago, Freeforester said:

We can, I’m struggling to imagine that a lighter rider can slow a wheel by the same amount of braking input as a heavier one, being both say, on a heavier than average wheel, but I do indeed get the idea that it’s the motor which does the actual braking, it’s the inertia/momentum bit that is causing me a bit of reticence, I have it in my mind that a heavier wheel rolling (rider atop or otherwise) carries more momentum than a lighter one? This momentum takes more effort to slow to a stop for both riders equally, but my feeling is that a lighter weight  rider is obliged to make his effort to brake with less body mass on hand than is the case with a heavier rider, the perception there being that it may feel that he is having to make more effort in slowing the heavier wheel, proportionate to his/her body weight?  Please feel free to export this to an appropriate thread, and apologies for derailing whilst getting myself bogged down here, and thanks to Mrelwood for offering me a helping hand out of the quagmire!

 

My guess is that it has to do with the weight and diameter of the motor/rim/tire

So I've got 2 wheels that are both heavy but but brake and accelerate very differently.  I ride a Begode EX (big heavy c40 motor) and a Sherman Max (smaller lighter motor.)  

Lighter riders have commented that the EX is hard to get going and stop.  Heavier riders commented that they experience the same thing but they didn't mind it as much.  I'm 6'8" 240 lbs and relative to my Sheman max, I find the EX much harder accelerate and brake.  This must be because the motor is heavier.  

The Sherman max is easier to accelerate and break, but I've found that it's less nimble to turn and control - I would guess because of the big heavy batteries.  

So I guess this is my point:

Big heavy motor - hard to accelerate and brake.

Big heavy wheel overall - hard turn and manipulate. 

If you have both - everything is harder.... especially for a lighter rider...

 

[mrelwood]

42 minutes ago, wstuart said:

This must be because the motor is heavier. 

For it to “must be” because of anything would need a bit more detective work.

 For one, the hardest ride mode on a Sherman is comparable to at least medium or possibly even the soft mode on a modern Begode. And we already know that a softer mode brakes easier. Second, the vertical weight distribution of the wheels is different, as is (third) the pedal height.

 The more weight you have above the axle, the more the top part of the wheel wants to keep going and tilting the wheel forward when you brake.

 And the lower the pedals are, the more leverage you have to tilt the wheel back with your body weight as you brake.

 Why doesn’t it “must be” because of these factors that actually have some physics behind them?

[MrMonoWheel]

What

[Uras]

On 12/12/2022 at 11:05 AM, UPONIT said:

V13 weighs only 13 lbs more than Sherman-S.

13% increase.

Gallon and a half of milk. Bowling ball. Gallon of paint. A Dachshund. Half of an Mten4...

 

what would you say to something that weighed 13lbs less than a sherman s?

[MrMonoWheel]

https://youtu.be/UnJaDS9mXUI

 

Another review saying nothing but great things about this wheel. I'm very excited to get mine. Of course time will tell if the chassis setup and suspension resilient.

Edited December 13, 2022 by MrMonoWheel

[Clem604]

2 hours ago, MrMonoWheel said:

https://youtu.be/UnJaDS9mXUI

 

Another review saying nothing but great things about this wheel. I'm very excited to get mine. Of course time will tell if the chassis setup and suspension resilient.

Congrats on the new wheel, I'll be interested to hear your feedback after a few months of ownership. My batch 2 should be here between March/April 2023 so it would be nice to know what to expect from the wheel when I get it.

[techyiam]

3 hours ago, MrMonoWheel said:

Another review

This is a well put together review.

It even covered big jumps on this roughly 100 lbs. wheel. And there was no mention of mods being needed. I think among the big heavy fast wheels, this wheel is going to be popular for those who enjoy going on long range offloading with some stunting, and group rides, especially if you are a big guy.

For me, I am really curious as to how it will compare to the V13 for urban commuting on main roads with traffic. It does look very promising. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by techyiam

[techyiam]

It is looking more and more like Begode again failed to out-Sherman the Sherman for 2022.

As in the past, Begode always play second fiddle when it comes to quality, water resistance, and safety.

So for 2023, what will Begode bring to the table to compete with the Sherman-S? 

We know Begode has the 134V motor drive system, but that isn't going to be enough on its own.

I think they will have to go beyond marketing smoke and mirror illusions, and offer real quality, water resistance, and safety features. Moreover, anything less than a "professionally designed" suspension system is not going to cut it.

Edited December 14, 2022 by techyiam

[BKW]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

It is looking more and more like Begode again failed to out-Sherman the Sherman for 2022.

As in the past, Begode always play second fiddle when it comes to quality, water resistance, and safety.

So for 2023, what will Begode bring to the table to compete with the Sherman-S? 

We know Begode has the 134V motor drive system, but that isn't going to be enough on its own.

I think they will have to go beyond marketing smoke and mirror illusions, and offer real quality, water resistance, and safety features. Moreover, anything less than a "professionally designed" suspension system is going to cut it.

Agreed. If Begode could somehow keep their performance but improve on their overall quality, they would be hard to deny for anyone. Wrongway said in a video before the Sherman-S came out was that the SS is going to attract a lot of people because it's reputation following the Sherman (reliability, ruggedness, mostly) -- the Abrams didn't seem to affect the company's reputation. But now not only has the Sherman-S proved to be have those things (so far), it also has the "best suspension" on the market? Combine those two things, plus the versatility of this wheel, and you have a winner. Begode products simply can't match it, unless it's performance, which is negligible in this case imo. Not even the V13, with it's higher standard safety measures, and likely a very dependable wheel, can compete with the suspension and versatility of the sherman-s.

Edited December 13, 2022 by BKW

[MrMonoWheel]

2 hours ago, Clem604 said:

Congrats on the new wheel, I'll be interested to hear your feedback after a few months of ownership. My batch 2 should be here between March/April 2023 so it would be nice to know what to expect from the wheel when I get it.

Appreciate it! Im not sure if I've mentioned it already but I plan to tear it down out of the box and waterproof/threadlock everything that needs it. I've also considered filling empty space around the battery cells with expanding foam for waterproofing and just generally keeping them safe.

 

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

This is a well put together review.

It even covered big jumps on this roughly 100 lbs. wheel. And there was no mention of mods being needed. I think among the big heavy fast wheels, this wheel is going to be popular for those who enjoy going on long range offloading with some stunting, and group rides, especially if you are a big guy.

For me, I am really curious as to how it will compare to the V13 for urban commuting on main roads with traffic. It does look very promising. 

I agree, this is the kind of review I enjoy. It's straight forward and no bullshit, the kind I was hoping Kujis review to be on the v13. In my eyes this wheel is a killer all rounder, and keep in mind I don't have any brand loyalty. I'm just very impressed.

 

25 minutes ago, BKW said:

Agreed. If Begode could somehow keep their performance but improve on their overall quality, they would be hard to deny for anyone. Wrongway said in a video before the Sherman-S came out was that the SS is going to attract a lot of people because it's reputation following the Sherman (reliability, ruggedness, mostly) -- the Abrams didn't seem to affect the company's reputation. But now not only has the Sherman-S proved to be have those things (so far), it also has the "best suspension" on the market? Combine those two things, plus the versatility of this wheel, and you have a winner. Begode products simply can't match it, unless it's performance, which is negligible in this case imo. Not even the V13, with it's higher standard safety measures, and likely a very dependable wheel, can compete with the suspension and versatility of the sherman-s.

I've always said that I'd never own a begode wheel, and this is why. The quality, refinement, and overall build needs to be stepped up quite a bit, and hopefully these new wheels from inmotion and Sherman will push begode to do that. If they ever achieve that sort of wheel I wouldn't hesitate to buy it.

[KiwiMark]

On 12/12/2022 at 1:05 PM, UPONIT said:

V13 weighs only 13 lbs more than Sherman-S.

13% increase.

Gallon and a half of milk. Bowling ball. Gallon of paint. A Dachshund. Half of an Mten4...

 

Actually I think the V13 is 20 lbs more.

The V13 was being listed at 50kg earlier, but newer specs are now showing it at 53kg vs the Sherman-S at 44kg.  So that is ~117 lbs for the V13 vs ~97 lbs for the Sherman-S.

I'm now seeing a 9 kg (20 lbs) difference in the most up to date specs I can find. 53/44 = 1.205, so that is a 20.5% increase in weight for the V13 compared to the Sherman-S.

[Paul A]

Sherman S looks very impressive.

Hope test of time proves it.

Great proper review.

[Freeforester]

Anything less than a “professionally designed” suspension system is not going to cut it

I’m  guessing you mean this?

[MrMonoWheel]

18 hours ago, Freeforester said:

Anything less than a “professionally designed” suspension system is not going to cut it

I’m  guessing you mean this?

Honestly now that it's been shown possible to use a motorcycle-esq suspension system on an EUC I would call this the new standard. Minimal parts, very little exposed to dirt/water, and compact. If this first attempt doesn't have the best long term durability due to lateral forces or whatever I'm sure the industry will improve upon the design to make something that does work.

[techyiam]

2 hours ago, MrMonoWheel said:

Honestly now that it's been shown possible to use a motorcycle-esq suspension system on an EUC I would call this the new standard.

The great thing is with the Sherman-S suspension, to improve durability doesn't require from the ground up R&D. Suspension structs for more heavy duty applications such as in motorcycle have already been worked out for decades. There is a wealth of knowledge there.

Whereas, in its competitors' suspension designs, there are going to be a lot of trial and error, and look and see attitude for years to come. The main stumbling block for other manufacturers is to be able to make their designs competitive with the Sherman-S suspension, while keeping the cost down.

So where does Kingsong find its rollers from, furniture applications? 

[That Guy]

It is indeed a very interesting challenge for other manufacturers, particularly Begode.

With their S18, KingSong introduced a concept of suspension that could worked well (when adjusted well) and Begode adjusted the entire production line to the assumption it would be the best way forward. And now, if indeed Sherman-S is the better way to do suspension, will Begode have to change the entire production line?...They will probably have to find a Fastace competitor to get suspension design from or give Fastace an offer they wouldn't be able to reject...

Edited December 14, 2022 by That Guy

[Steve Evans]

20 minutes ago, That Guy said:

will Begode have to change the entire production line?...They will probably have to find a Fastace competitor to get suspension design from or give Fastace an offer they wouldn't be able to reject...

id love to know what's up with their commander pro. who produced that shock?. i have heard nothing for the past few weeks.

[MrMonoWheel]

2 hours ago, Steve Evans said:

id love to know what's up with their commander pro. who produced that shock?. i have heard nothing for the past few weeks.

Commander pro dead long live Sherman S

Edited December 15, 2022 by MrMonoWheel

[Jon Wall]

A dealer whose name I won't mention showes $1000 pre order deposit for Comander Pro expected delivery roughly around February 2023. Competition is a good thing  even if it looks to have the same crummy Begode rim

 

[Paul A]

WrongWay's polling, current results.

1400 votes thus far.

[Paul A]

9 hours ago, MrMonoWheel said:

motorcycle-esq suspension system on an EUC

 

Might become the dominant suspension system in the future.

Akin to water over air cooled engines for cars.

WW's polling seems to indicate a strong preference for the Sherman S, the main determining factor likely to be the suspension.

[Paul D]

34 minutes ago, Paul A said:

 

Might become the dominant suspension system in the future.

Akin to water over air cooled engines for cars.

WW's polling seems to indicate a strong preference for the Sherman S, the main determining factor likely to be the suspension.

I find that poll reassuring that this wheel might be supported for a long time if it becomes very popular. I’m hopefully getting one soon from ewheels. 

[Tawpie]

1 hour ago, Paul A said:

WrongWay's polling, current results.

1400 votes thus far.

Having a 2200 Wh wheel in there with the pavement eaters is a little like asking which pickup you prefer, and your choices are three full sized trucks and a Ford Ranger.

[MrMonoWheel]

2 hours ago, Tawpie said:

Having a 2200 Wh wheel in there with the pavement eaters is a little like asking which pickup you prefer, and your choices are three full sized trucks and a Ford Ranger.

Tbh between those options I'd get the Ford ranger for my use case 😂

[Paul A]

If the new sliders, pinned motor, boards, pass the test of time......and no other problems arise......the S22 would be a fantastic purchase.

Sherman S and V13, also need to pass the test of time too.

S22 is very nice.