Master suspension modifications

[Nekko]

The volume spacers I used :

Fox DPX2 Bottomless Token Volume Spacer Singles or Kit 803-01-251

(224910360956)

Pack Size: 0.4in3 S

 

I'm sure there are better options

 

The oil :

https://www.probikeshop.fr/rockshox-huile-de-fourche-15wt-120ml/89506.html

 

I have to add that with the described setup (2 volume spacers) the maximum physical compression of the shock coincides with the lowest the suspension will reach (the spacers physically block the shock from compressing further) so that you are guaranteed under normal usage no bottoming out. An adjustment of the quantity of suspension fluid to be added will be necessary. Just add the fluid as you are piecing back together your shock, then remove the Shrader valve core once shock is reassembled, compress the shock to maximum compression, letting the excess fluid leak out through the air valve, then screw valve core back in.

Compress (inflate) the shock back to whatever level you prefer and you're in business

Edited October 19, 2022 by Nekko
More information

[UtahRider]

On 10/19/2022 at 7:16 AM, Nekko said:

The volume spacers I used :

Fox DPX2 Bottomless Token Volume Spacer Singles or Kit 803-01-251

(224910360956)

Pack Size: 0.4in3 S

 

I'm sure there are better options

 

The oil :

https://www.probikeshop.fr/rockshox-huile-de-fourche-15wt-120ml/89506.html

 

I have to add that with the described setup (2 volume spacers) the maximum physical compression of the shock coincides with the lowest the suspension will reach (the spacers physically block the shock from compressing further) so that you are guaranteed under normal usage no bottoming out. An adjustment of the quantity of suspension fluid to be added will be necessary. Just add the fluid as you are piecing back together your shock, then remove the Shrader valve core once shock is reassembled, compress the shock to maximum compression, letting the excess fluid leak out through the air valve, then screw valve core back in.

Compress (inflate) the shock back to whatever level you prefer and you're in business

Thanks for this info, I’m going to try this before going through the hassle of upgrading. Is it necessary to glue the spacers tho, I thought they just free float in the oil?

[Nekko]

This is the first time I've installed volume spacers of any kind so I just picked the ones that seem to fit the inside central axis of the Begode Shock best. Because of this, the spacers are kinda loose and I wanted to make sure they would remain in a plane perpendicular to the axis, keeping the shock sliding back and forth freely. I reasoned by doing so I would end up with the same shock, just a smaller chamber and less maximum compression which doesn't matter anyway since suspension geometry doesn't allow full compression. It actually is an advantage since with this setup, as previously explained, the maximum compression coincides with the lowest the pedals will descend on the sliders.

I have not noticed any drawback from gluing, and have ridden about 400 km so far with this setup.

Silicon glue I used :

https://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B0886KWMF2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Let me know how you like it ^^

Edited October 22, 2022 by Nekko

[mrelwood]

9 hours ago, Nekko said:

have ridden about 400 km so far with this setup.

I'm interested in hearing about the changes you've noticed about this mod, because the mod makes a lot of sense to me.

Were you able (or did you) decrease the shock pressure after fitting the spacers? My logic tells me that you should be able to do so, and hence achieve a plushier ride.

Other than not bottoming out anymore, have you noticed any other differences in the ride quality to the stock system?

Thanks! (I don't and won't own a Master, I'm just interested as I sometimes talk with a few local Master owners.)

Edited October 22, 2022 by mrelwood

[EUCzero]

On 10/19/2022 at 3:09 PM, Nekko said:

Cheap, fairly easy and effective in my case :

I ordered volume spacers, opened the shock. You have to drain the oil and replace it later (in my case Rockshox suspension oil, they have various viscosities to choose from, around 4€ for 120ml, shipping excluded).

I glued 2 volume spacers (one should be enough though) with silicone. Around 80kg geared I would say, and at 250 psi (even 200), absolutely no bottoming out. Topping up though when your in free fall, from the quick release of the shock (that's what I think is the weird clunking noise, could be wrong) but it's not a bother to me. I find the suspension nice, smooth and firm (like I said, 250 psi).

FINALLY

I was hoping someone would test this out. I have asked on facebook several times before, but everybody just answers: "get a new shock, original is crap", or "get the KUBA system, original is crap". I agree the original is crap. Rebound adjustment do not work at all on mine. But I do NOT have money to buy the KUBA system for some time.

How did you open it? Care to explain.. 
Hehe I guess you are not doing it again to make a video
 

Edited October 22, 2022 by EUCzero

[Nekko]

Lol, no I'm not opening it again but it's actually quite easy to do. The irony is I probably would not have attempted it had my shock not been stuck after something like the 7th ride or so. Also why I can't answer mrelwood too much because I haven't ridden much with the shock in its original state. Nonetheless I can say that the feeling is much better and that the "response" from the shock comes faster. Also yes, you can go down to 150 - 180 psi and hardly bottom out (if even, I could test it again for you guys if you are interested, I'm at 250 right now). It was too plush for my taste at 180 psi, lol. I was riding at 300+ psi before the mod, in the short amount of time that the shock was operational so yes, I did decrease the pressure after I installed the spacers. If you don't decrease the pressure, at 300 psi the suspension stays in the upper position, even when you mount the Master (75-80 kg rider).

Ride quality is awesome as far as I'm concerned, and with side pads you can fully exploit the Master's power. Lots of fun to be had (this from previously -and still- riding an RS torque).

I thought the shock was done for like what happened to George Go! (see his first shock for EX-30) and I tried to get a new shock from the Begode through the seller.

I was tired of waiting and then contemplated getting a new brand name shock but wasn't sure which one would surely fit because of the valve orientation. That's when I tried to twist the shock around in a hail Mary attempt to get it unstuck and realized I could unscrew it.

Just insert a screwdriver or any other solid tool that will do inside the upper mounting ring, on the valve side (this will serve as leverage to maintain that part of the shock in place). Get some thick tape and wrap some tape around the body of the shock as unevenly as possible (create wrinkles while wrapping, twist and bend the tape, create small ridges and crevices). This will make it easier to grip the body of the shock to unscrew it open, the body of the shock is too smooth and slick and it's too tightly screwed in at first to easily open. Also increased diameter because of the tape creates more torque ^^

Next unscrew it open (wear latex gloves if needed)  and be prepared with a container to let the shock fluid drain out. Et voilà! ^^

It turned out my shock was stuck because a small part of a brown open plastic ring inside was bent and stuck in the lower cylinder. I was able to just cut out the bent part of the ring and use the remaining main part to keep the lower piston sliding properly in its cylinder, just in case you were wondering why my shock seemed stuck in the first place.

Opening the upper chamber is not as bad as it sounds, plus you guys have the added benefit to know that it works and actually leads you somewhere, lol.

 

Edited October 22, 2022 by Nekko

[techyiam]

25 minutes ago, Nekko said:

Get some thick tape and wrap some tape around the body of the shock as unevenly as possible (create wrinkles while wrapping, twist and bend the tape, create small ridges and crevices). This will make it easier to grip the body of the shock to unscrew it open, the body of the shock is too smooth and slick and it's too tightly screwed in at first to easily open.

Thank you for sharing.

Just wondering, would a rubber belt strap wrench help to grip the shock body better?

[Nekko]

A rubber belt strap wrench is actually the proper tool but I did not have one and thought I'd try the tape LOL

[mrelwood]

9 hours ago, Nekko said:

Also yes, you can go down to 150 - 180 psi and hardly bottom out (if even, I could test it again for you guys if you are interested, I'm at 250 right now). It was too plush for my taste at 180 psi, lol. I was riding at 300+ psi before the mod, in the short amount of time that the shock was operational so yes, I did decrease the pressure after I installed the spacers. If you don't decrease the pressure, at 300 psi the suspension stays in the upper position, even when you mount the Master (75-80 kg rider).

Ride quality is awesome as far as I'm concerned

All this info is extremely valuable!! Thank you so much for sharing! People buy expensive new shocks and linkages when a cheap volume spacer would already be a huge upgrade.

[Nekko]

And I suspect just as good an upgrade if not much better than some of the other solutions that are not high end 250€ + shocks.

My detailed description might make it seem like hard work but it really is not once you've procured all the necessary materials. The part that you have to pay attention to is to get rid of the excessive amount of fluid by compressing the shock as far as it will go after you've removed the core of the shrader valve. Too much fluid and it will start acting like a volume spacer itself (because the fluid doesn't compress like air)...which makes me think that maybe all you have to do is adding more fluid, without even bothering with the spacers?

You would in that case put fluid in excess on purpose, remove the core of the valve like in the method described above and then compress the shock to drain the fluid but only to the extent that the linkage allows it to compress (having beforehand marked it on the outside with a white marker say...).

I bet that would work, maybe even better, lol. No need to pay for the spacers and the silicone even!!!

I know for a fact that before I drained the excessive fluid, the shock would not compress as much as it needed to, the excessive fluid acting in effect as a volume spacer.

Which reminds me that before I added the new fluid, I made sure I cleaned the Begode fluid thoroughly with mild soap (you don't want to mess the seals with solvent although I think they are silicone) because I wasn't sure how the 2 different fluids would mix together. With this method, we even have now the possibility of exploring the effect of the different viscosities available on the shock and the ride quality.

Edited October 23, 2022 by Nekko
More info

[mrelwood]

33 minutes ago, Nekko said:

which makes me think that maybe all you have to do is adding more fluid, without even bothering with the spacers?

That is definitely something that I hope someone will try!

Man I love efficient mods like this!!

[meepmeepmayer]

10 hours ago, Erete said:

Merci pour ton explication ami francophone. 

Peut-on t'on cette manipulation sans la démonter complètement ? Je précise, peut avoir juste dévisser la partie haute sans enlever les batteries. J'ai des grizzla pad d'installer, la flemme de tout enlever. 

Please post in English here. You can always use Google Translate or likewise, and post in multiple languages if you want.

"Thank you for your explanation French speaking friend.  Can we do this manipulation without dismantling it completely? I specify, may have just unscrewed the upper part without removing the batteries. I have grizzla pads to install, too lazy to remove everything.Thank you for your explanation French speaking friend.  Can we do this manipulation without dismantling it completely? I specify, may have just unscrewed the upper part without removing the batteries. I have grizzla pads to install, too lazy to remove everything."

[Erete]

On 19/10/2022 at 15:16, Nekko said:

Les entretoises de volume que j'ai utilisées :

Fox DPX2 Bottomless Token Volume Spacer Singles ou Kit 803-01-251

(224910360956)

Taille du paquet : 0,4 po3 S

 

Je suis sûr qu'il y a de meilleures options

 

L'huile :

https://www.probikeshop.fr/rockshox-huile-de-fourche-15wt-120ml/89506.html

 

Je dois ajouter qu'avec la configuration décrite (2 entretoises de volume), la compression physique maximale de l'amortisseur coïncide avec le plus bas que la suspension atteindra (les entretoises empêchent physiquement l'amortisseur de se comprimer davantage) de sorte que vous êtes assuré dans des conditions normales d'utilisation sans fond dehors. Un ajustement de la quantité de liquide de suspension à ajouter sera nécessaire. Ajoutez simplement le liquide pendant que vous reconstituez votre amortisseur, puis retirez le noyau de la valve Shrader une fois l'amortisseur remonté, comprimez le choc à une compression maximale, en laissant l'excès de liquide s'échapper par la valve à air, puis revissez le noyau de la valve.

Compressez (gonflez) l'amortisseur au niveau que vous préférez et vous êtes en affaires

Can we do this manipulation without disassembling it completely?  I specify, may have just unscrewed the upper part without removing the batteries.  I have grizzla pads to install, too lazy to remove everything.

[EUCzero]

13 hours ago, Erete said:

Can we do this manipulation without disassembling it completely?  I specify, may have just unscrewed the upper part without removing the batteries.  I have grizzla pads to install, too lazy to remove everything.

If you ONLY use oil, you could fill up thru the valve. Unscrew the inside of the valve, fill with oil, pump up ant test.

Also. The suspension can probably be opened by only loose one side, and leave the other side mounted on the wheel, but I imagine it will be a bigger hassle. 

[Erete]

I must suck, when I pipette, the liquid doesn't fit the hole though and perpendicular to the floor.

[Cerbera]

36 minutes ago, Erete said:

I must suck, when I pipette, the liquid doesn't fit the hole though and perpendicular to the floor.

Have you removed the centre of the valve with the special tool, as @EUCzero suggested ?

 

Edited October 28, 2022 by Cerbera

[Paul A]

30 minutes ago, Erete said:

I must suck, when I pipette, the liquid doesn't fit the hole though and perpendicular to the floor.

 

Instead of using a pipette, maybe a syringe with flexible tubing would be easier.

No chance of swallowing either.

The syringe end can be a slip on type (slide/slip on rubber tubing) or Luer Lock (for a needle to twist and lock in place).

Cut rubber hosing to length.

Needle for small holes. 

Very cheap on ebay.

 

[Erete]

47 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

Avez-vous enlevé le centre de la soupape avec l'outil spécial, car@EUCzero suggéré ?

 

Yes, but there is a plate at the bottom as if it were closed.  I have according to my dealer v3 as a shock absorber.  For example I don't have the guts to adjust the rebound.

[Magman116]

I just tried some things with the master suspension. I used the stock shock for a while then installed the Alien Rides suspension delete linkage and went for my normal trail ride. I did like the lowered pedals due to the linkage, but the benefit was out weighed by the lack of suspension with a heavy wheel. Part way through the ride I was wanting to put a shock back on.

Then I removed the linkage and installed a DNM DV-22AR with a 1300lb spring. OMG!! What a massive improvement! Super smooth on the road. Off road, I could not bottom it out no matter what I did. Even with 3ft drops, it wouldn't bottom out. I am 180-190 lbs geared up and the 1300lb spring seems to be a great match for me.

Now if I could just figure the best way to control the Master. I consider myself a skilled rider, but the Master will take some time and experimenting to figure it out. I have no issues going straight or turning at lower speeds under 20mph. High speed turning us something else and at times, scary. On my RS HS I can do most of my turn mainly using my feet, and knees,  bending the outside leg while straightening the I side leg. With the Master it works that way at low speed,  but not at high speeds for me.

It seems at high speeds I have to lean my body to turn and the wheel wants to stay upright. I have an HK-666 street tire on it right now and am thinking of put the Shinko 244 tire on hoping it would be better in the turns.

Are other experiencing the same thing turning or am I just not doing it right?

[buffs]

17 minutes ago, Magman116 said:

Then I removed the linkage and installed a DNM DV-22AR with a 1300lb spring. OMG!! What a massive improvement! Super smooth on the road.

did you have to remove the linkage to install the shock? it was my understanding that the part was a drop in replacement, after removing the top and bottom pins.

[Magman116]

Totally a drop in replacement. Didn't have to remove anything from the wheel other than the 2 bolts holding it in.

Had to remove the air from the shock and compress it down to its smallest size then remove the outer screw closest to the back of the wheel. Then removed the I side screw just under the seat. When suspension is compressed you can access the bolts without removing the batteries. You will need to use long hex wrenches.

Then to put the coil shock in you first install the inside bolt and bushing. Expand the suspension. Then work the back bushing into the coil shock. You will need to compress it slightly to get the bushing in. I used a hex driver as it was round and just fit inside the bushing hole. Then tapped the bushing gently while compressing the shock till it extends past the linkage. Then install the screw and tighten. 

I adjusted the pre-load with a flathead screwdriver and a hammer to spin the pre-load adjusting ring. I have mine about 6 turns in.

[Magman116]

[mrelwood]

On 10/30/2022 at 4:06 PM, Magman116 said:

It seems at high speeds I have to lean my body to turn and the wheel wants to stay upright. I have an HK-666 street tire on it right now and am thinking of put the Shinko 244 tire on hoping it would be better in the turns.

Are other experiencing the same thing turning or am I just not doing it right?

This phenomena is mostly tire dependent, but tall wheels like the Master staying upright will of course be harder for the rider than wheels that have more space to tilt between one’s legs.

H-666 does have a bit more tendency to stay upright than the old fashioned e-bike tires all EUCs used to come with, but at the speeds I used it (sub 30mph) it wasn’t at all bad. SR-244 should have much less of the phenomena since it’s a knobby. The opposite actually, as it might even feel like it was falling into the curve.

[EMA]

On 10/30/2022 at 4:03 PM, Magman116 said:

same setup here, amazing.

i've designed a +1mm lower linkage to fit the coil easier with bigger spring also, you can find it here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/f9e9a6nzohb9lh2/AACKmfN4XqpIoexfK3fFAEyWa?dl=0

[Magman116]

3 hours ago, mrelwood said:

This phenomena is mostly tire dependent, but tall wheels like the Master staying upright will of course be harder for the rider than wheels that have more space to tilt between one’s legs.

H-666 does have a bit more tendency to stay upright than the old fashioned e-bike tires all EUCs used to come with, but at the speeds I used it (sub 30mph) it wasn’t at all bad. SR-244 should have much less of the phenomena since it’s a knobby. The opposite actually, as it might even feel like it was falling into the curve.

So, it would be worth it to change from the H-666 to the SR-244? I don't' mind leaning heavy into the turns like I used to in my old street bike days.  Kinda makes it more fun.

I still have concerns with the SR-244 after riding with the CST-184 knobby tire that would throw the wheel to the side in the turn then nearly refuse to stand back up after the turn.