Master suspension modifications

[btl]

Hi,

 

i have a feeling that some people here will want to modify their Master's suspension. Instead of reading 144 pages in the general Master thread, lets collect all regarding ideas, solutions and experiences here.

 

I for myself got an 190mm DNM AOY-38RC when i saw on YT that "Go! George Go!" said its his choice for the EX20S (and that he thinks Master, too, because he can't imagine Begode using different shocks in an almost same suspension).

I was able (with pain) to mount it and while the ride was nicer dampened as with the original shock, the suspension system couldn't expand completely any more. 190mm shock is simply too short for use in the Master, so don't get 190mm unless you order the replacement linkage system found here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/ElectricUnicycle/posts/5233598880071366 . This will use 190mm shock.

An  other  YT Video by Roger EUC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGZdc92q5pg shows a mod that enables to mount a Fox Float DPS 210x55mm shock. So i ordered that shock and was able to mount it. IIRC Murland Fish can provide that modified plate.

The Fox shock is a game changer, guys... I also inserted the .95"³ volume spacer like Roger did, and now i can ride the Master in three settings:

• Open, which is very much like the stock shock, if you open the rebound a 3 to 4 clicks 
• Medium, which will most likely be my setting for road and forest paths. This has good dampening whil still beeing comfortable soft
• Firm, this makes the shock quite stiff and enables me to ride drops of like 25cm without bottoming out. That will be my trail ride setting. 

You could also adjust your sag to be like 50% and ride in firm if you ride street only. The 3x adjustment lever is great.  I am around 200lbs geared and run 300psi in the Fox, resulting in 30% sag. Shock is able to run at up to 350psi, and since it doesn't compress completely and we pump it up when already 10mm compressed, you can possibly go a bit higher than 350psi, too. I doubt you need it, though.

 

Ride on,

Stefan

 

[Ronin Ryder]

Thanks. Which size/model to order but without having to order extra linkage system?

[daniel1234]

I am little confused why people are using 210 mm shock and adding volume reducer to get proper size - 186 - 190 mm. Isn't better to get shock with right size right away ?

Edited July 18, 2022 by daniel1234

[EMA]

1 hour ago, daniel1234 said:

I am little confused why people are using 210 mm shock and adding volume reducer to get proper size - 186 - 190 mm. Isn't better to get shock with right size right away ?

volume reducer are not related to shock size, they just reduce the air volume inside the shock to make it more progressive , something you should do if you want to use an air shock on the master.

even if you can fit something different the correct size is 190x50, no need to use something else.

i'm using a Coil, DNM DV22AR and i'm waiting for the 1000lbs spring, 750lbs is too soft for my 72kg

Edited July 18, 2022 by EMA

[daniel1234]

Ok - but still I don't get why they chosen 210 mm shock... not 190 air one ... for example RockShox Monarch RT3 Rear Shock, 7.50x2.00.

I did ride S22 yesterday. Still mine master suspension feels better - S22 doesn't feel like final product either

[EMA]

1 hour ago, daniel1234 said:

Ok - but still I don't get why they chosen 210 mm shock... not 190 air one ... for example RockShox Monarch RT3 Rear Shock, 7.50x2.00.

I did ride S22 yesterday. Still mine master suspension feels better - S22 doesn't feel like final product either

if you fit a 210x50 on the master (don't know if exist) you already compress 20mm of initial travel, probably the behaviour is similar to a volume reducer but tbh i never done something like this...

tons of stiction in the s22 sliders design

[btl]

As i said in my initial posting:

when i mounted the DNM 190mm shock, it was too short for the Master suspension to expand completely. So when i jumped off a curb, the suspension would expand until the shock was on its maximum length, while the suspansion would have around 15-20mm of travel left. My guess is that a 200mm shock could be long enough, but 190mm is to short. I mounted the 210mm which doesn't even compress fully, there is still 10mm left when master is bottomed out.

Edited July 23, 2022 by btl

[Freeforester]

Is there any link available to the fellow (in istr Hungary?) who has redesigned the suspension linkage frame (red parts in the original production unit, which he substituted for his own grey, bare metal CNC machined parts?

Also, is there any news as to how anyone using it feels about its improvements or indeed otherwise? It did appear that from a design point of view, his solution offered a great basic advance over that of the original, though I’m certainly no expert in this field, hence my curiosity; were it my intention to ever buy a Master, I’d be interested in deriving the full benefits of a working suspension system, which is one of its principle features and stated advantages, after all.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Freeforester

[fbhb]

52 minutes ago, Freeforester said:

Is there any link available to the fellow (in istr Hungary?) who has redesigned the suspension linkage frame

I believe this is the Facebook link you are referring to and yes the existing Master geometry really is very poorly designed IMO, as evidenced by everyone performing at least some form of upgrade:

Electric Unicycle dot org EUC | Hi, my ogryginal begode damper died so I decided to put some fox float in it | Facebook

[Freeforester]

38 minutes ago, fbhb said:

I believe this is the Facebook link you are referring to and yes the existing Master geometry really is very poorly designed IMO, as evidenced by everyone performing at least some form of upgrade:

Electric Unicycle dot org EUC | Hi, my ogryginal begode damper died so I decided to put some fox float in it | Facebook

Thanks so much for posting this info, it has to be the best suspension improvement I’ve seen to date, the redesigned  linkage permitting vastly improved shock unit functionality, which is what all are looking for. He should licence the design and sell it to Begode, or anyone actually trying to improve on their poor design!

[EMA]

i already modified the lower link to be able to mount coil shock without issue .

working into the whole system now

easy and fun wheel 

Edited July 23, 2022 by EMA

[btl]

22 hours ago, EMA said:

i already modified the lower link to be able to mount coil shock without issue .

working into the whole system now

easy and fun wheel 

Pics or didn't happen!  :-D 

[techyiam]

23 hours ago, EMA said:

i already modified the lower link to be able to mount coil shock without issue .

Are you able to use the full suspension travel?

[EMA]

21 minutes ago, btl said:

Pics or didn't happen!  :-D 

lol

9 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Are you able to use the full suspension travel?

not yet, this is the next step, takes some time, never done this before

i've added 2mm to the lower link, it's simply longer and let you mount coil shock without insane workout XD

[techyiam]

It sounds like you are taking the trial and error approach. 

If you don't have access to CAD to perform the simulations, perhaps you can use cardboard cutouts to do the simulations?

Edited July 24, 2022 by techyiam

[EMA]

39 minutes ago, techyiam said:

It sounds like you are taking the trial and error approach. 

If you don't have access to CAD to perform the simulations, perhaps you can use cardboard cutouts to do the simulations?

Fusion360 👍

[daniel1234]

mine 190 mm 750lb cheap exa brand... average performace.  

[buffs]

On 7/25/2022 at 5:41 AM, daniel1234 said:

mine 190 mm 750lb cheap exa brand... average performace.  

what do you mean by average performance? is it better than stock? if so, how much better? is it worse than the stock shock in any way? it looks like you have a 750lb spring. does that seem adequate? i've seen others installing a 1000lb or even higher spring.

how easy was installation - was it a simple drop-in replacement, or did you need to modify existing linkage or replace bushings or other parts?

[EMA]

i'll leave it here, well tested common config used by lot of riders including me:

DNM shock 190mm size  (you find it on amazon too): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004523461629.html

SPRNG: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000925879971.html

65-75kg 1000-1250lbs

around 80-90kg 1500lbs

90+ kg go for 1800-2000lbs

[Eucner]

36 minutes ago, EMA said:

65-75kg 1000-1250lbs

around 80-90kg 1500lbs

90+ kg go for 1800-2000lbs

I thought spring weight would follow linearly combined rider and sprung wheel masses.

[EMA]

2 minutes ago, Eucner said:

I thought spring weight would follow linearly combined rider and sprung wheel masses.

not a scientific calculation, this is what people are using from my experience. it's a general recommendation for buying list

[dsd317]

Do any of these mods get rid of that annoying knocking/clanking noise when the suspension is rapidly compressed.  And just to clarify, this is not bottoming out.  The following video is not mine, but I have the same issue:
 

 

[daniel1234]

On 10/9/2022 at 5:47 PM, buffs said:

what do you mean by average performance? is it better than stock? if so, how much better? is it worse than the stock shock in any way? it looks like you have a 750lb spring. does that seem adequate? i've seen others installing a 1000lb or even higher spring.

how easy was installation - was it a simple drop-in replacement, or did you need to modify existing linkage or replace bushings or other parts?

everything is better than stock begode shock . Mine V1 master was a horrible unridable pogo stick.

I have that other DMN rpc2s on S18.

Average it means it works for mine 75 kg weight - feels like a standard scooter spring or little bit better than cheaper DMN. They have probably stiffer springs - 750 lib was a sweet spot for me. Seems like those numbers on springs doesn't mean much - 550 dmn spring feels like 750 exa one, if I stand on it. You need to test more springs. 

It is not fancy FOX with dials. There are much better shocks ... this is low-cost solution.

Edited October 13, 2022 by daniel1234

[daniel1234]

On 10/10/2022 at 8:35 PM, dsd317 said:

Do any of these mods get rid of that annoying knocking/clanking noise when the suspension is rapidly compressed.  And just to clarify, this is not bottoming out.  The following video is not mine, but I have the same issue:
 

With proper spring and rebound you will have 1 cm sag - so there will not be hard metal-to-metal contact.

[Nekko]

Cheap, fairly easy and effective in my case :

I ordered volume spacers, opened the shock. You have to drain the oil and replace it later (in my case Rockshox suspension oil, they have various viscosities to choose from, around 4€ for 120ml, shipping excluded).

I glued 2 volume spacers (one should be enough though) with silicone. Around 80kg geared I would say, and at 250 psi (even 200), absolutely no bottoming out. Topping up though when your in free fall, from the quick release of the shock (that's what I think is the weird clunking noise, could be wrong) but it's not a bother to me. I find the suspension nice, smooth and firm (like I said, 250 psi).

Only one volume spacer glued

Second volume spacer glued on top of first one. Silicone applied generously so as to take up even more space (not sure if it was optimal).

 

Edited October 22, 2022 by Nekko