My V11 glitched at full speed and I crashed.

[David 1200]

I literally made this account to spread the word for everyone to know. The V 11 is not safe. I’m a very experienced rider and I’ve had mine for over a year. I love the wheel and thought it was the best wheel. I have had zero issues with the wheel the entire time I got it. Brand new out-of-the-box straight from ewheels.com. The crash happened last Saturday. Brooke my hand got crazy road rash on my right knee, right hip, right elbow, and lower left side of my back. The hospital put me in a neck brace and into a splint (now I have a cast) and I got a minor concussion. I was wearing very thick pants and a very thick jacket and a full face helmet. I was able to walk away from the crash but it got severe whiplash and was bruised all over. I emailed inmotion Sunday night and waited till Thursday…. No response so I sent a second email last night and still no response from them. I don’t think they’re taking it very seriously. 

Here’s what happened. I was going to do some speed runs on a empty flat smooth parking lot. A flat concrete desert. Absolutely nothing to interfere with the wheel. On the first speed run and my last speed run. I reached full speed and the wheel tilted back like normal. If anyone’s familiar with the V 11 they know exactly what I’m talking about. Only this time after it tilted back it tilted forward so much so it threw me off the wheel. It made me dismount the wheel. It has never done that….ever. It sent me flying. I was like a ragdoll flipping rolling tumbling everything. I don’t have a car and my only means a transportation to and from work is my wheel. I have over 1500 miles on my v11. I have run diagnostics check on it very regularly and even after the crash it still says everything‘s fine. I don’t know if it’s the miles on the wheel or if it was a glitch and only my wheel was affected but I no longer trust the V 11. The V 11 is completely destroyed. The aluminum saddle on top of it….half of it’s completely broken and separated from the chassis. Some inner plastic walls behind the shocks are cracked and bent. The wheel is in three pieces. At least that’s what I picked up before I left. I’m just here to warn everyone and hopefully prevent what happened to me to happen to other people. I still love EUCs and sometime in the future when I order a new wheel (not inmotion) I plan on wearing full body armor. I suggest everyone do the same. Just some elbow pads and knee pads won’t do justice. Specially if you’re going faster than 25. 

[RockyTop]

28 minutes ago, David 1200 said:

I reached full speed and the wheel tilted back like normal. If anyone’s familiar with the V 11 they know exactly what I’m talking about. Only this time after it tilted back it tilted forward so much so it threw me off the wheel. It made me dismount the wheel.

First and most importantly, sorry for your injuries. I hope you recover quickly without lasting damage.
 

I might do the quoted part above on occasion, however I would expect a cut out when doing so. ..And I have had cut outs doing that. When you are at top speed it doesn’t take much to overpower a wheel. The tilt is something you never want to slam into. 
 

Again, I wish speedy recovery. 

[David 1200]

3 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

First and most importantly, sorry for your injuries. I hope you recover quickly without lasting damage.
 

I might do the quoted part above on occasion, however I would expect a cut out when doing so. ..And I have had cut outs doing that. When you are at top speed it doesn’t take much to overpower a wheel. The tilt is something you never want to slam into. 
 

Again, I wish speedy recovery. 

The wheel is rated for over 300 pounds I weigh nothing close to that. I currently weigh 164. And I gradually got to top speed not like I slammed on it. Why hasn’t inmotion messaged me….. that’s what upsets me the most. 

[David 1200]

That doesn’t make any sense to me anyways…. I’ve done some crazy things with this wheel. I’ve gone downstairs, did lots of trail riding took it to the beach, and went off some small jumps. And I almost every time I get on it I always reach full speed at one point. I’ve had it over a year and never had a single issue with it. And then out of nowhere it does this to me. 

[omuretsu]

What was the battery level when it failed? Keep in mind the max performance drops as battery voltage drops.

What you're describing sounds pretty much like a textbook cutout from pushing the wheel too hard. The only reason the wheel would tilt forward when you're pushing it at max speed at tiltback is that it no longer has enough torque to keep you upright. I don't mean to be insensitive, but "I was doing speed runs into tiltback" sounds like basically tempting fate.

[David 1200]

No you’re fine omuretsu. I could be wrong. I just went and turned it on. The batteries is at 56% haven’t touched it since the accident. I usually charge it at the end of the week and by the end of the week after going to work I charge it back up to 100% and at the end of the week the battery is sitting sitting around 15-30%. Like I said before I ride it at full speed almost all the time and after 1500 miles it now does this to me. Oh and the power button will no longer turn off the wheel…. I have to use the app. If that means anything. 

[omuretsu]

Quote

Oh and the power button will no longer turn off the wheel…. I have to use the app. If that means anything. 

I actually had that happen a few days ago on my V12 after riding through some fairly heavy rain. In my case I think it was due to water ingress near the power button, but luckily in my case it corrected itself within about a day (probably as whatever moisture dried up)

I believe there's a mini circuit board that basically handles just the power button and maybe the spin kill sensor, that little board might be damaged if your power button isn't working right. Does the power button still work for changing the operating mode of the headlights? When my power button wasn't working right, I also had to use the app to control the headlight mode.

[David 1200]

The spin to kill handle with half the saddle is ripped off my wheel….it is no longer connected. 

[meepmeepmayer]

Ow, I hope your injuries heal soon. And thank you for the warning report with your experience.

I do agree though that this sounds like a standard overlean. Any wheel, regardless of power or ratings or any other specs, can be overleaned when you accelerate faster that it can support. No designed safety margin can 100% protect against that (just accelerate even harder). Usually and practically, that is only a concern near the current top speed (which goes down with the battery charge!). But since you were in that regime...

All it needed is a bit lower battery charge than usual, or a little more temporary acceleration stress than usual... and what once worked for you did not work this time. That is (very likely) the explanation for your crash.

Leave the home with 100% charge if you ride a wheel hard, instead of only charging at the end of a week. More battery = bigger safety margin. If you look at the numbers, a full battery (84V here) is 20-25% higher voltage than an empty battery (something between 60V and 66V here, not sure). And voltage directly translates into the safe top speed you can ride at any point, where you have enough margin so your typical riding behavior does not exceed the wheel's current capability.

I would not blame the V11 (but I also don't blame you), and I would say you can still trust it (of course after it has been properly repaired after the now heavy crash damage... ewheels can certainly do that). From your description, it sounds like your V11 just did what one would expect (its best, which wasn't enough this time).

What you really need is a faster wheel. The best thing for safety is a top speed much faster than you would ever ride. Want to go 30mph? Buy a 45+mph wheel. Just stay away from the new top speed now you know the pitfalls

Great that you could replace your car with a EUC! Just so cool!

Edited May 13, 2022 by meepmeepmayer

[David 1200]

What I’m understanding now is that I made a mistake and overpowered the wheel. What I’m now surprised about is that this wasn’t made clear to me the entire time I had it and when I went to buy it and the entire time I did research before I bought one. There’s no warning? For people that have multiple wheels and I’ve been doing this much longer probably comes across as common sense.

I think this should be made more clear when you go to purchase a wheel. If you lean too far at a low voltage you’re wheel will just die…. Would be nice to know. In my case it took over a year for me to figure that out. I’m not gonna do this it but I wouldn’t be surprised if this happens again to someone els and they decide to sue because the manufacturer doesn’t clearly worn the user. I thought I did my research and knew everything clearly I didn’t. 
 

Since I’m here whatever happened to the YouTuber Kuji Rolls? 

[Tawpie]

2 minutes ago, David 1200 said:

Since I’m here whatever happened to the YouTuber Kuji Rolls?

Last I heard he crashed a prototype S20, but before that it seems he'd kind of moved on.

I think all manufacturers include beeping and tiltback to warn you before you get into too much trouble, but on most wheels you're allowed to reset or disable the alarms. The issue with the existing safety systems is it's difficult to hear beeping when you're going fast, and it's fairly easy to misinterpret tiltback for "I need to lean more" (in my opinion, the sensory feedback is backwards because of this, but it would require a fair amount of research to figure out a way to do pedal dipping in such a manner that you don't lose control).

As to not knowing, that's unfortunate and I can def see how it'd happen. Very few riders like to waste their entire day on forums like this, and "this is sooooo fun" videos are much more common than "this is sooooo risky". Not that I would heed such a warning myself, but it would help for the first thing in the box to be a warning "this is an inherently risky activity". Because it is. (of course, that wouldn't make the marketing types very happy)

 

[Funky]

Yup, sad to hear when wheel fails the rider. But then again you where riding at it's so say.. "limits".  If you want to go 40 buy 50+ speed wheel. So you never have to hear "beeps" or experience "tilt back". I bought 18xl just because of that, i normally ride 25-35kph and leave 10kph head room. Every time you ride at wheel max speed, you are asking for trouble to happen. Any small bump can make the wheel cutout.. (Doh most wheels have that "Margin of Safety", but it seems to low..)

Also what do you want from Inmotion? What do you expect them to do? It's clearly riders fault here. (Sorry if i sound harsh.) Just saying it, how i see it. But same time the "safety margin" did fail you. < That's why i don't even attempt to ride max speed of said wheel.

Edited May 13, 2022 by Funky
Added Inmotion response.

[The Brahan Seer]

I would recommend watching this to give you more insight, we need to take into consideration many things such as Headwind, slope angle, weight etc etc...

 

[David 1200]

Thank you wrong way…. Too bad inmotion or ewheels.com couldn’t tell me this. 

[Esash]

3 hours ago, David 1200 said:

I literally made this account to spread the word for everyone to know. The V 11 is not safe. I’m a very experienced rider and I’ve had mine for over a year. I love the wheel and thought it was the best wheel. I have had zero issues with the wheel the entire time I got it. Brand new out-of-the-box straight from ewheels.com. The crash happened last Saturday. Brooke my hand got crazy road rash on my right knee, right hip, right elbow, and lower left side of my back. The hospital put me in a neck brace and into a splint (now I have a cast) and I got a minor concussion. I was wearing very thick pants and a very thick jacket and a full face helmet. I was able to walk away from the crash but it got severe whiplash and was bruised all over. I emailed inmotion Sunday night and waited till Thursday…. No response so I sent a second email last night and still no response from them. I don’t think they’re taking it very seriously. 

Here’s what happened. I was going to do some speed runs on a empty flat smooth parking lot. A flat concrete desert. Absolutely nothing to interfere with the wheel. On the first speed run and my last speed run. I reached full speed and the wheel tilted back like normal. If anyone’s familiar with the V 11 they know exactly what I’m talking about. Only this time after it tilted back it tilted forward so much so it threw me off the wheel. It made me dismount the wheel. It has never done that….ever. It sent me flying. I was like a ragdoll flipping rolling tumbling everything. I don’t have a car and my only means a transportation to and from work is my wheel. I have over 1500 miles on my v11. I have run diagnostics check on it very regularly and even after the crash it still says everything‘s fine. I don’t know if it’s the miles on the wheel or if it was a glitch and only my wheel was affected but I no longer trust the V 11. The V 11 is completely destroyed. The aluminum saddle on top of it….half of it’s completely broken and separated from the chassis. Some inner plastic walls behind the shocks are cracked and bent. The wheel is in three pieces. At least that’s what I picked up before I left. I’m just here to warn everyone and hopefully prevent what happened to me to happen to other people. I still love EUCs and sometime in the future when I order a new wheel (not inmotion) I plan on wearing full body armor. I suggest everyone do the same. Just some elbow pads and knee pads won’t do justice. Specially if you’re going faster than 25. 

That's why I paid an extra $1000 for the Begode Hero even though everybody said it wasn't worth it. The V11 was tempting as heck.

 

[David 1200]

This got me thinking at what point should you replace the battery? As the battery ages it will become easier to overpower the wheel. The crash happened at 56% charge. 
 

Edited May 13, 2022 by David 1200

[David 1200]

3 minutes ago, Esash said:

That's why I paid an extra $1000 for the Begode Hero even though everybody said it wasn't worth it. The V11 was tempting as heck.

 

I got my V 11 when it was the first suspension wheel announced. Over a year ago. At the time it was one of the best wheels. 

[Funky]

7 minutes ago, David 1200 said:

This got me thinking at what point should you replace the battery. As the battery ages it will become easier to overpower the wheel. The crash happened at 56% charge. 
 

Most people don't even think about that.. They get "new" wheel before that time comes.  You need to look how much you are riding every day and what not.. Also if you don't ride at wheels max speeds, i doubt you would crash then.

Some people have ridden 20k+ miles.

As i ride very little.. I'm thinking about changing (Ha.. Changing.. Whos kidding here. Buying new euc) in ~5years. Maybe till then we will have "solid state" batteries.  

Edited May 13, 2022 by Funky

[RockyTop]

3 minutes ago, David 1200 said:

This got me thinking at what point should you replace the battery. As the battery ages it will become easier to overpower the wheel. The crash happened at 56% charge. 
 

I am much heavier than you. If my battery was at 55% hours or days after what you said you did it would have sagged to 40% while I was doing it. If I ride hard for 15 minutes the battery will drop quite a bit then come back up after I stop riding hard. I have to back off and take it easy when my battery starts getting close to 40% or I will get a cut out. 
 

I wish you had found us sooner! 

[meepmeepmayer]

1 hour ago, David 1200 said:

There’s no warning?

You're right that every EUC should include a basic explanation of how it works and what "self-balancing" entails, but then I still think many people would not understand it or heed it. They just expect the wheel to not go any faster if it cannot, like any other vehicle. Sometimes people here are surprised if they hear that any hardware failure would not mean they just coast to a stop (like any other vehicle), but simply insta-crash (more instant that yours!).

Self-balancing is also hard for the manufacturers. There is no obvious good answer how to design warnings during riding. For example:

• You can overlean any wheel, by principle. Just go faster and faster until it cannot keep up.
• If an evil acceleration (or bump or wind gust necessitating such an acceleration) comes fast, you fall before any beeps or tiltback can occur.
• Tiltback also adds another concern: to tilt you back, the wheel needs to overtake you first. So it needs to accelerate first. And if that particular acceleration happens to be too much, the tiltback attempt is what pushes the rider over the edge (kind of literally). That might be what happened to you.
• The wheel can't look into the future. How early should it warn? Any (too) early warning mechanism locks off untapped potential (speed really) of the wheel permanently. A LOT of potential. How much do you want to lose? 20%? 50%? You can make up a scenario requiring arbitrarily large warning margins. It's simply "accelerate this hard and you need this much margin".
• Just design for a higher top speed? That lowers your torque. How much oomph exactly do you want to sacrifice for how much safety?
• You can build monstrously overpowered (and expensive and heavy) wheels that will work for the normal riders, but at their new top speed, the exact same issue exists for the crazy few riders going that far. You just kicked the can down the road.
• (In fact, kicking the can down the road is how to do it. Ride a 45mph wheel at 30mph max. Problem solved. Theory complicated, practice easy. Just have self-control and stay away from the top speed.)

It's about finding a balance that works best.

1 hour ago, David 1200 said:

If you lean too far at a low voltage you’re wheel will just die…. Would be nice to know.

That applies to any voltage. At low voltage, it just happens sooner.

26 minutes ago, David 1200 said:

This got me thinking at what point should you replace the battery. As the battery ages it will become easier to overpower the wheel. The crash happened at 56% charge. 

As I understand it (possibly falsely), you only lose battery capacity (energy content), not voltage. So there should be no difference in riding behavior and safety. Also, if you do the math on when the purported "80% of original capacity" happens (not that anybody ever noticed it in real life), it is after 10000s of miles. By then, shiny new wheels will call out for you, and yours wil be so beaten up and scratched that you replace it because of that, not the batteries.

Nobody ever had any battery aging problems with EUCs that I ever heard of. It's not a thing.

-

TLDR: It's not that complicated once you understand how complicated it is But in reality, just get a faster/stronger wheel and you will be good.

[Funky]

17 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

I am much heavier than you. If my battery was at 55% hours or days after what you said you did it would have sagged to 40% while I was doing it. If I ride hard for 15 minutes the battery will drop quite a bit then come back up after I stop riding hard. I have to back off and take it easy when my battery starts getting close to 40% or I will get a cut out. 
 

I wish you had found us sooner! 

True. i bet i'm even more heavy, 127kg butt naked here. I normally don't ride below 40% and if i do i never go faster than 30kph from so said 50kph limit. Under 50% i have noticed it's easy to over power the wheel.. Especially if you start riding really fast - leaning forwards a lot.

I really would be happy with ks16s the 35kph wheel. BUT and that's the big BUT. I knew that my weight and riding 30+kph it meant i would be going at my WHEEL LIMITS most of the time. And i knew it would be dangerous.. That's why i got a bigger wheel, not for speed.. BUT for safety.

Edited May 13, 2022 by Funky

[David 1200]

Thank you Meepmeepmayer. I like the explanation. 

[David 1200]

19 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

I am much heavier than you. If my battery was at 55% hours or days after what you said you did it would have sagged to 40% while I was doing it. If I ride hard for 15 minutes the battery will drop quite a bit then come back up after I stop riding hard. I have to back off and take it easy when my battery starts getting close to 40% or I will get a cut out. 
 

I wish you had found us sooner! 

Understood….and yeah °-°…………………… sooner…….. I don’t expect inmotion to help me out in anyway either. 

[AtlasP]

It is shocking to me how people can spend that much money on a device and that much time learning how to ride it and not spend an hour learning how it works. Particularly within the category of self-balancing devices which have such an obvious and intuitive dependence on "how it works" as the only thing standing between normal operation and failure.

[Funky]

7 minutes ago, AtlasP said:

It is shocking to me how people can spend that much money on a device and that much time learning how to ride it and not spend an hour learning how it works. Particularly within the category of self-balancing devices which have such an obvious and intuitive dependence on "how it works" as the only thing standing between normal operation and failure.

Truth be told, i myself didn't know much about euc's. All i knew i wanted 18" incher and kingsong wheel, as i knew they where "safer". I went in store and was looking at 16x and 18l and 18xl. Loved how 16x looks - hated it's handle. Was also looking at some scooters. Exited the shop with 18xl. xD Learning wasn't hard.

My dad got ks16s first, so i learned in ~2hrs to ride. 4 days, each day ~15 mins trying. At start i though: HOW the hell do you ride this shit.. At 4th day something clicked in my brain and was going in circles.

I didn't even know all these "safety" things. But back in my mind, i kinda knew. It has 1 wheel... If something happens, you will kiss the ground. So bigger speed limit and in general more head room = safer. Later i found out, i did good choosing my first wheel.