My V11 glitched at full speed and I crashed.

[Paradox]

This thread should be stickied and have the title changed to "What every new EUC rider needs to read"

[Hellkitten]

So I also ride a V11 and lately have been doing long enough rides that I’m getting from a full charge down to the second or last bar. Doesn’t the wheel alter the beeps and tiltback safety as the battery gets weaker? How would a rider ever know they’re close to cutoff without those limitations being communicated via the wheel? 

David, very sorry to hear about your crash. Deepest condolences. I hope you have a speedy recovery. 

[Mango]

Congratulations on your high speed, overpowered cut-out. Looks like a 100v wheel is in your future.

Inmotion manual states 25 km/h is the safe riding speed. Going over 40 km/h without full body impact and slide protection is just asking for trouble. Sorry for your injuries, but also not sorry.

[meepmeepmayer]

1 hour ago, AtlasP said:

It is shocking to me how people can spend that much money on a device and that much time learning how to ride it and not spend an hour learning how it works. Particularly within the category of self-balancing devices which have such an obvious and intuitive dependence on "how it works" as the only thing standing between normal operation and failure.

People don't know that they don't know.

Edited May 14, 2022 by meepmeepmayer
forum error

[gon2fast]

I think that OP has a valid point concerning the resellers and what they publish as expected performance. Most of us know that top performance with our wheels is a sliding scale with the amount of battery power available. Many resellers state the max cruising speed which is at the top of the ceiling, as in it should only be attempted on a fully charged battery for a minimal amount of time. 

Another thing to keep in mind is that standing battery capacity is not the same once you get going. I have shot myself in the foot several times looking at an app and seeing 30-50% charge and then seeing a huge drop once I am InMotion (lol, sorry). 

Point being is that there is no mention about the risk or requirements for pushing EUCs to their limit performance-wise. I like to stay 5-10 miles below the performance ceiling to stay safe, but I have never read a suggestion of that manner from any reseller.

Don't worry, we have all had a pucker if not worse from hitting the ceiling. Sorry that your situation went the way it did.

Edited May 14, 2022 by gon2fast

[David 1200]

25 minutes ago, gon2fast said:

I think that OP has a valid point concerning the resellers and what they publish as expected performance. Most of us know that top performance with our wheels is a sliding scale with the amount of battery power available. Many resellers state the max cruising speed which is at the top of the ceiling, as in it should only be attempted on a fully charged battery for a minimal amount of time. 

Another thing to keep in mind is that standing battery capacity is not the same once you get going. I have shot myself in the foot several times looking at an app and seeing 30-50% charge and then seeing a huge drop once I am InMotion (lol, sorry). 

Point being is that there is no mention about the risk or requirements for pushing EUCs to their limit performance-wise. I like to stay 5-10 miles below the performance ceiling to stay safe, but I have never read a suggestion of that manner from any reseller.

Don't worry, we have all had a pucker if not worse from hitting the ceiling. Sorry that your situation went the way it did.

I agree like I said before there really is not a warning. As far as I know manufactures currently don’t have an explanation on how to avoid cut off and how they can happen. 

[David 1200]

Now let me be clear one line of text in the manual doesn’t do justice. It needs to be made way more obvious. I am telling you when this takes off and becomes extremely popular there will be lawsuits. 

[OldFartRides]

You were lulled into a false sense of security by past performance of an obviously dangerous device.

[alcatraz]

Speed and torque are different.

I wish I had the guts to do these torque jerks and test the limits (so I can get a feel of where the limits are). It tooks U-stride just a minute of riding to know that the Kingsong S20 wasn't going to be able to handle the lean he puts in on his Begode wheels.

You were accelerating hard which can simply be avoided, but a similar situation occurs when braking hard, which could be out of your control. It could be wise to practice hard braking at the limit. It's scary to think that the wheel could cut out under braking. It's one reason why I reluctantly switched to riding Gotway/Begode because those wheels have less self-preservation, and more "rider-preservation" (during riding). 

Battery temperature, charge and current speed also determines how much acceleration/braking is available so it's not a fixed limit either which makes it even harder to master.

[Forwardnbak]

sorry to hear David. Sounds like a rough ride and not so great outcome, wish you heaps of good vibes for recovering. 

 

Where you running an app? The inmotion or darknessbot? the only time i had weird tilt issues on my v11 the app had reset some limits by itself. 

I agree that it sounds like an over lean.

I only experience tilt on lower than half battery on an incline or at 50kph, as soon as i even feel any tilt i back right off.

I also have low battery speed limit enabled on mine via the inmotion app. when you hit 1 bar, it tilts progressively further depending on speed (quite slow) to get you home. 

i would still trust it after it’s looked over. A good safe wheel. 

luck healing up! 

 

[Rawnei]

14 hours ago, Hellkitten said:

So I also ride a V11 and lately have been doing long enough rides that I’m getting from a full charge down to the second or last bar. Doesn’t the wheel alter the beeps and tiltback safety as the battery gets weaker? How would a rider ever know they’re close to cutoff without those limitations being communicated via the wheel? 

David, very sorry to hear about your crash. Deepest condolences. I hope you have a speedy recovery. 

Yes that's how the alarm mechanism works on all wheels, however you have to account for the rider being used to a certain speed and pushing too hard and fast for the wheel to alert you, if you are used to the sensation of 50kmh on the V11 at full battery state and forget you are on low battery and push it hard to get to 50kmh the alerts wont save you.

See the alerts and tiltback mechanism of indicators that can help you as a rider, you still have to be aware of what you are doing despite of those.

[Tasku]

Sorry to hear about your pain David. I throw quick 2cents into this well of tears that are somewhat common occurance to people learning the use of devices such as euc.

Without this forum same thing could have happened to me that occured to David. It is very important to know the device has its limits. A rider can feel his limits can go over the  device limits and it is bit of a bummer that people find the community and information too late.

But at the same time, some people here also say that we are overly protective.. 

Maybe keeping it simple?

1.) Stay away from your rated top speed (leave headroom or buy better performance device if you outgrow the performance)

2.) Wind and bumps can reduce the performance (see recommend 1)

3.) Stay safe, use  gear. (It could be someone else who makes/causes mistake/accident. Fall/crash would hurt.) It is not always up to you when accidents happen.

Spread the word, good topic (usually the people who get these are your buddies, let's keep em safe too.)

[AtlasP]

On 5/13/2022 at 7:56 PM, gon2fast said:

I think that OP has a valid point concerning the resellers and what they publish ...

On 5/13/2022 at 8:27 PM, David 1200 said:

Now let me be clear one line of text in the manual doesn’t do justice. It needs to be made way more obvious. ...

Obligatory Devil's Advocate warning:

• The car dealership didn't tell me I needed to change the oil/filters/check tire pressure/etc when I bought my car (nor did driver's ed), the only documentation about servicing it was buried in the manual. Yet if you bought a car and never did any research or service, the engine would explode.
• If you buy a skateboard or roller blades or snowboard neither the shop nor any sales documentation will tell you anything about the many (including some obscure/non-intuitive) fail states involved. (I.e. Watch out for loose gravel/wet surfaces/metal grates/sometimes single pebbles/etc on your skateboard. Watch out for trees/signs of potential avalanche conditions/etc on your snowboard. etc.)

The modern "my ignorance/everything is somebody else's fault" mentality is a societal cancer.

¯\_ (ツ)_/¯

Edited June 3, 2022 by AtlasP

[Unventor]

Now I just spotted this thread. Fast read the first few posts. Now that is important as I could have gotten a few details wrong. So here goes my 2 cents... 

Only a few years back strong wheels were like V8 and S16. Today those are considers toys by most. But the lower top speed meant people knew they har a limit and they could hit it easily. But the limit is almost into run of bail speed. So when people hit this limit most didn't get seriously hurt. Looking around here you will see it was possible to get hurt. Myself included. 

Now with stronger wheels and bigger batteries most people tend to assume the wheels are safer. My point is they are only as safe as you as a rider use them. 

Hitting top speed limit still hold same problem as lower speed wheels. To maintain balance. And repeated stressing this can wear out components. Most people I know assume that fuses burn quickly but there is also something known a slow burn. People seem to get this with their household power if they charge a car to the very limit of their instalation. The first few or many time it might go fine but at some point the wiring might melt or heat up. In an EUC we have several places things can go wrong. So despite you can ride aggressively this might not be healthy for your wheel. 

Now factor in that can component or mechanical part can stop working on any device that goes for EUCs too. The question here is how safe will an EUC ever be and how safe are they right now? Yet people seem to crave to go faster. 

Sometimes it take a crash to understand the forces we use when we're ride. 

I learned this the hard way on a few occasions. Saying the V11 isn't safe...in the way you say you ride it that is kind like to me "what can possible go wrong" statement to me. The answer it will go wrong sooner or later no matter what. I have sait it before that I consider 50kmh a reasonable top speed for an EUC just for this very reason. Yes it will still hurt you but going 70kmh will do much more harm. 

I think the OP is one of there reminders to read the manual. Once you go above 20kmh or 25kmh then all brands state that is an unsafe speed that you as a rider accept you choose to ride above once you unlock that speed limit. 

I know many will argue but they can go faster. Sure thing, but that doesn't make it safer when something goes wrong for whatever reason, regardless of brand and make. 

For that reason I decided to lower my V11 top speed 40kmh. This helps me to avoid what happened here. But I still have to consider how I ride my wheel. And fir that very reason I don't use power or jump pads. That is another thing that helps not to push the EUC too aggressively and lower my speed in situation where I must stop or react fast. I don't just floor it. 

Maybe this was more like 5cents...

You can find my crash histories here on this forum, with pictures. Not all of them are pretty (in more than one meaning 🙄) so be warned if you choose to search for them... (press the red button you know you want to) 😁

[Unventor]

23 hours ago, David 1200 said:

Now let me be clear one line of text in the manual doesn’t do justice. It needs to be made way more obvious. I am telling you when this takes off and becomes extremely popular there will be lawsuits. 

It states in the app too once you unlock the speed limit. So how this can be seen as not notified is a bit out of my comprehension. 

I fully agree with @AtlasP that "I didn't know" or "I didn't do anything (wrong)" attitude is not helping most people out.

I am pretty sure that even if I don't understand gravity it will still force me to see thats point of reality despite what I think of it or do. I doubt it will listen to my argument against it. 

Now I know gravity is there but I don't fully understand it, so I try my best not to push my limits regarding it. 

When I don't do a good enough job, my crash histories tell the tale of the result. I am still learning. 

Edited May 15, 2022 by Unventor

[mrelwood]

@David 1200, I’m sorry that you had to read a thread full of comments saying that you caused the accident, not the wheel. I’m sure it sucks after crashing and getting pretty badly hurt.

 But unfortunately it indeed seems like you simply didn’t have the knowledge and understanding that’s needed for riding safely.

I understand that the dealer and manufacturer not warning you seems like an attractive aspect to blame. But… where do you draw the line? What is the minimum amount of common sense that should be expected when purchasing, well, anything really? None of the knifes I’ve ever bought had a warning that I shouldn’t try to learn flipping them in the air on top of a sleeping baby. Yet I never did.

 Grave example, I know. Just to bring the point across.

Not being aware that a battery powered wheel has less power when the battery gets depleted… Sorry, but that’s on you. Everybody realizes that a flashlight or a cordless drill doesn’t give out full power when the battery is depleted. That is something that simply must be able to expect an adult person to know. How could a battery powered EUC be any different?

 

 My brother crashed on an EUC today, and scraped his knees, elbow, hip and whatnot. Tore all his clothes. I kinda should be sorry, but I’m having trouble. He has heard every single reason for wearing protective gear, many times, yet he only rides with a helmet. If even that.. Same goes for warnings against riding with straight legs. And he even crashed in a near identical spot a year ago.

He only blames the bumps though, not his lack of knowledge or understanding.

[Wolverine]

It is a pity that such a thing happened to you, and I wish you a speedy recovery.

Speaking of your fall, you have not made it clear how the device works and have not acquired the necessary protective equipment.

As others have already pointed out, this was a rider error. In the old days, thick manuals were made with all sorts of information on how to use the device, what could happen, what would not, health information etc. Times have changed and this is no longer done in this way to save the nature. I even remember when the console games came with a thick book on how to play them. Fortunately, this is no longer the case today. The same goes for other devices. Information is digitally available, and it is expected from user to look up that information. You can injure yourself from any activity, such as cooking, playing football, playing console games, running, cycling, and so on. Even having a sex can result in injury or illness. The point of my story is that there is a risk in all activities, and you need to be aware of these risks and do everything you can to prevent the injuries. Protecting yourself is easy, you just need to make it clear what the possible health effects of an activity are, how to avoid them, how the equipment works, and so on. Unfortunately, in the event of your accident, the homework is completely undone.

Again, I wish you a speedy recovery.

[David 1200]

If I send my wheel to inmomotion USA for repairs where is that exactly? 

[The Brahan Seer]

13 minutes ago, David 1200 said:

If I send my wheel to inmomotion USA for repairs where is that exactly? 

If you bought it from these guys the details are here...

https://www.myinmotion.com/pages/warranty

[LanghamP]

On 5/13/2022 at 8:56 PM, gon2fast said:

I think that OP has a valid point concerning the resellers and what they publish as expected performance. Most of us know that top performance with our wheels is a sliding scale with the amount of battery power available. Many resellers state the max cruising speed which is at the top of the ceiling, as in it should only be attempted on a fully charged battery for a minimal amount of time. 

I think a significant minority of new riders think the top speed of an EUC is determined in the same way the top speed of other vehicles is determined; you floor the throttle until an equilibrium between friction and power is reached. For example, I get on my (beautiful) bicycle pedal as hard as I can until I reach about 31 mph for about .02 seconds. For gas motor vehicles (which I've never topped out or even attempted), presumably one can take them well past 100 mph until their top speeds are reached.

Yet for new riders, it's understandable if they take what they already know (top speeds are reached by flooring the throttle and waiting) to a vehicle that on the surface is the same as vehicles they've already had experience with. You get onto a wheel, and you floor it until it moans at you via beeps or tilt-back, and then you go just a bit more because everyone knows engineers are required by law to add a 50% margin of error.

Of course, experienced riders know you never ever ride anywhere near the top speed because doing so is like entering a weightlifting contest; one keeps going until failure. Yet when I looked at the Inmotion V11 manual AND the KingSong 16 and 18xl manual, in none of those manuals is it explained how such vehicles balance themselves and how their top speeds is also their crash speeds.

And experienced riders also look at the original poster's willingness to do top speed runs to..do what? To determine the crash speed? The very definition of a SBU/EUC's top speed is the crash speed! One cannot find one without immediately finding the other! That fact isn't immediately obvious to new riders, nor to me when I first bought an EUC (notably, the moment I turned my first EUC on and rolled it back and forth did I realize these are dangerous vehicles).

Most of use are used to fossil fueled vehicles, which perform at 100% until the last drop of petrol is consumed. That's not the same as electric vehicles, and the arbitrary selection of 0-100% is something I wish would just go away. 0 - 100% can mean anything you want, but batteries, as you've pointed out, are really just a sliding scale of available power, parallels, voltage, etc... 

[mhpr262]

On 5/13/2022 at 9:47 PM, David 1200 said:

The wheel is rated for over 300 pounds

I dont think it is. I am pretty sure it is rated for only 120kg/265lbs. I know because I weigh 130kg/285lbs with all my gear and I make very, very sure to stay the heck away from the edge of the performance envelope at all times. Suits me just fine because I like cruising leisurely at 15 mph best anyway.

[meepmeepmayer]

1 hour ago, David 1200 said:

If I send my wheel to inmomotion USA for repairs where is that exactly? 

Where did you buy it? This really is the job for your seller or an independent repair shop (might very well be another seller). Your seller or finding a repair place that works for Florida is where you start.

Sellers exist so that manufacturers do not have to deal with customers directly, but they got the parts etc. Just like with your emails to Inmotion (to where exactly?), you might not get a reply simply because they don't even reliably have people who speak enough English. You're barking up the wrong tree by talking to any Chinese manufacturer directly.

Note, as I see myinmotion.com being mentioned, I believe that is not the official Inmotion website. Simply a seller (EUCO... this existed before EUCO, might very well be their predecessor shop focusing on IM wheels), and maybe they have some extra dealings with IM, not sure how and what and how official. The name is a bit misleading because it looks more official than I believe it is.

Manufacturers don't really have websites that allow customer interaction. You're lucky if one of these Chinese companies has a (barely competent and up-to-date) website at all. They don't have local official branches. All goes via the dealers. So ask your seller or some other competent outlet, that is the right adressee to get your V11 fixed (let's not lose track of what the important thing is... you can ride again!).

(Sorry, I'm worried this comes off as rude, but that's not how I mean it, I'm just describing how things are. The "Western" expectations of being able to deal with a manufacturer directly or getting any support from them virtually don't exist with EUCs. They just sell wheels and parts to dealers mostly, and maybe some enthusiasts that have built rapport, that kind of thing. Hell, even the dealers may have trouble getting proper support from certain manufacturers! Though I will say that I expect Inmotion to have the best after-sale-support structures in place overall. In the end, mostly everyone gets what they need, so it's not like things are dire. Just more complicated and maybe unreliable than one would want.)

Edited May 15, 2022 by meepmeepmayer

[onizukagto]

6 hours ago, LanghamP said:

Yet for new riders, it's understandable if they take what they already know (top speeds are reached by flooring the throttle and waiting) to a vehicle that on the surface is the same as vehicles they've already had experience with. You get onto a wheel, and you floor it until it moans at you via beeps or tilt-back, and then you go just a bit more because everyone knows engineers are required by law to add a 50% margin of error.

 

"Everyone knows"? 

Count me in as someone who didn't know it was a "law". 

While as a professional industry/product designer, anything that is considered a load bearing structural features, we do over-engineer features so that it will take the estimated target load and slightly higher. 50% is common but I've seen it done to within 5% (closer you design something to the target load, the cheaper you save on materials etc etc) and "usually" the target load has already factored a 25% tolerance over. But its certainly not a "law", perhaps a common practice depending on the industry and contractoral agreement, especially if human survival depended on it. (I.e. Civil engineering, construction tools, large public transport) 

However I doubt these "common sense" practice are enforced in China when applied to commercial electrical devices that are not on 4 wheels, especially to EUCs. 

I don't think it's wise to trust mainland China engineers to adere to your assumed standards. 

Even if we are taking about the most Conservative safety euc manufacturer like inmotion. 

I mean if inmotion gives at minimum a 25% tolerance for the top speed, I don't like to think what the percentage on less safety concerned manufacturers are doing... 

 

Edited May 16, 2022 by onizukagto

[Tasku]

Max speed, sounds simple but these tested max speeds seems to come from "no wind nor potholes" conditions riding a threadmill.

When you buy a device and you are told "max speed", it is true that we consider that being safe travel speed, well there be stories about that quite a lot here.
"Do not exceed, only theoretical not practically tested speed" is what we should be told, not max speed. Surely the marketing team would love that, could you imagine them selling these with that line? Anyway the marketing team simply changes the words to "max speed". 
"Every" euc has safe speed written 25 km/h in the manual.  

It is very humain to make mistakes, or not to read the instructions nor manuals for that matter. If there is any change to things go wrong it, sure will over time and with enough people trying the devices.

Using these devices are by your own risk, do not risk others. There are some small prints too..

Euc riding can be addictive.

[Funky]

45 minutes ago, Tasku said:

Euc riding can be addictive.

That right there is 100% false. Change my mind, i dare you! 

Edited May 16, 2022 by Funky