V11 died again - same course of events - same defect

[reach]

Today my V11 died the very same way it already did last year: I was going rather slow, didn't master an obstacle and unmounted (stepped off).

The wheel of course fell down, powered off and died. Wheel blocked - getting back to the next road where my girlfriend picked me up was awful.

Same problem as back then:

 

I got a replacement board under warranty, but I'm afraid that expired and the dealer told me, the board is some 360EUR.

I don't intend to spend that much money every time I have a little mishap. I wouldn't complain if this happens after a major crash, but the dealer even said himself: when the wheel spins freely and is abruptly braked, the MosFETs might explode.

I lost confidence already the first time it happend, imagining this would happen when riding fast. Now I'm really considering getting rid of it. My only hope would be Inmotion introducing a new more robust driver board.

So, to me it looks like these things die like flies. Or am I the only one?

[Paradox]

How many miles have you put on the V11 since you replaced the driver board?  What was the state of charge? 

[supercurio]

Not great 

I disagree with your dealer's assessment here.

Quote

when the wheel spins freely and is abruptly braked, the MosFETs might explode.

1000 times no. wheel spinning and braking abruptly is normal EUC operation: essentially any time the wheel might get some air, encounters an unexpected bump, pothole.
What your dealer is saying here is that it's normal that an EUC would not only die but also dump you onto the ground in the process of any of these events.

This is fairly similar to V12 MOSFET dying IMHO and a defect. It does not happen with other wheels.
Should be covered by warranty IMO as hidden defect.

If your dealer is unhelpful, I would suggest getting in touch with Inmotion directly via whichever suitable channel.

[reach]

Not argueing with you. Either he is wrong, or the forces are slightly different in case of the wheel falling completely unloaded OOORR: I might also remember his statement wrong. Maybe he said that it happens when is suddely goes from load to spinning idle? But also this would be rather normal in case of jump and similar. Fact is: mine doesn't seem to be very robust :-(

[reach]

18 minutes ago, Paradox said:

How many miles have you put on the V11 since you replaced the driver board?  What was the state of charge? 

maybe 100 miles.

SOC was ~70%

[supercurio]

@reach yes either way, it should not happen.

There are some cases where the wheel gets over-burdened and okay it's so far away from normal riding that it can be identified as rider error. But dismounting and the wheel just dies is not in the acceptable range.

Wishing you luck with this repair, let us know!

[Tryptych]

On 4/12/2022 at 2:13 PM, reach said:

So, to me it looks like these things die like flies. Or am I the only one?

This is not a common problem with the V11.

[cverse]

feels pretty common to me 

[cverse]

This exact thing just happened to me on my new V11 that had ~15 miles on it when attempting a brake, it powered down and threw me off. Became difficult to push and won't turn on, the worst part is I think the resellers knew about the defect MOSFETs but acted as though they didn't when I approached them for support on the warranty offered by them.

[reach]

On 4/12/2022 at 8:21 PM, supercurio said:

I disagree with your dealer's assessment here.

1000 times no. wheel spinning and braking abruptly is normal EUC operation: essentially any time the wheel might get some air, encounters an unexpected bump, pothole.

Just an update: my dealer confirmed his previous statement: Wheel spinning freely and abruptly getting stopped usually causes this. They seem to know what they're talking about. They know this, because customers report that they accidently spun the wheel an the tried to stop it by pushing it to the ground. Or a small drop, like I had.

So, sure, needless to say that this must not happen in an EUC. It's a perfectly normal everday situation. However, it does happen. It doesn't seem to happen very often, but if it does, that's usually how.

I have made an acceptable deal with my dealer to pay a reasonable price for the spare part and get new warranty on that one. Since I'm still waiting for the spare part I got myself a new KingSong S18 in the meantime and it's soooo much better in almost every possible way. I even thought about selling he V11 and getting another S18 with a knobby tire instead :-) 

[supercurio]

If what your dealer said was true and acceptable then the V12 MOSFET failure would be considered normal and user error instead of leading to 100% of the mainboards getting replaced.

May I ask who was the dealer here, unwilling to handle warranty cases in order to avoid doing business with them?

With the description you provided, I fully expect the dealer to receive replacement parts for free from Inmotion. And then they made you pay for it 😬

Happy to hear that you're having a great time with your new wheel tho, congrats!

Edited May 21, 2022 by supercurio

[Funky]

Dealer was wrong.. Free spin and fast stop is normal operation for euc. (Or at least it should BE.) Weak mosfets are inmotion fault by default. (Already known issue..)

If warranty still would exit - i personally would try to return the euc and get my money back. Buy something better. It failed already 2 times.. 2 time 2 much.. Seems you just got a "crappy" v11, the unlucky one.

[meepmeepmayer]

Yea, name and shame pls. Blaming the rider for braking hard (in effect) is in no way justified.

Looks like the V11 board is borderline weak, and some batch is even worse and fails often. They should replace the board with the new V12 board now that they have it.

[Funky]

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Yea, name and shame pls. Blaming the rider for braking hard (in effect) is in no way justified.

Looks like the V11 board is borderline weak, and some batch is even worse and fails often. They should replace the board with the new V12 board now that they have it.

Doh are v11 and v12 boards the same? Can you exchange them? If yes - i 100% would like to get the "new" board, not the same old "weak" v11 board.. Because it already failed twice, there's nothing stopping it occurring 3rd time.

[reach]

5 hours ago, supercurio said:

May I ask who was the dealer here, unwilling to handle warranty cases in order to avoid doing business with them?

It's the Inmotion importer in Germany, Hammer International.

But no - he's not unwilling, he's rather the opposite. He replaced the first case under warranty and now they are giving me a very acceptable solution for the second case which is out of warranty. They allowed me to solder on board, replace MosFETs myself etc. without loosing warranty, despite the danager that I might break something else. IMO this is a very fair seller. They also have to buy the spare parts from Inmotion, and they are not Charity.

If anything I'm angry at Inmotion for producing such a vulnerable driver board AND not offer repair, just new boards. But then again, as you can read here, the defect isn't very common. Looks I'm just having bad luck.

BTW, contrary to what @meepmeepmayersaid they are also not blaming me. They are just being open about what leads to this type of issue. They never claimed that this isn't perfectly normal EUC handling.

[Mirko]

Hi, I'm right now in a similar discussion with my dealer.

I bought my V11 in December 2020. Had early problems with my bearings and the light.

They send my new ones but I had to handle the exchange myself. I can't find someone doing it, so I was living with the more noise during riding.

After 2500km driving now, the EUC just turn off the engine during driving. Luckily I was not fast. Felt down and scratched me heavily.

It was not possible to start the V11 again, even on 230V charger.

The wheels are still running well if moved manually.

Now my dealer suggest after I sent the EUC on my own cost to Barcelona, I need to pay 380 Euro for a new mainboard.

For my, this is warranty and worst  case because the wheel shut off during riding at the normal road without being fast.

Anyone have a similar problem?

Thanks in advance for your feedback and help,

 

Mirko

By the way, I loved riding the V11 !

[reach]

Hi. If the wheel spins freely, your issue most likely a different one. In all similar cases I've heard some of the MosFETs were blown which causes a short and blocks the wheel.

But I guess this doesn't matter, broken is broken.

Have you tried if the wheel, despite appearing off, can be seen from the app via Bluetooth? 

 

If your's is a different issue, maybe the repair is more trivial, like a bad connector or so. Why haven't you changed the spare parts they sent you? Are you so averse against tinkering (no offense!)? I have made myself a step-by-step manual for taking it apart. Absolutely no magic involved. If you want, I can post it here. You could at least open the electronics compartment and have a look. Also a smell might help in case of a burnt MosFET.

[mhpr262]

On 4/12/2022 at 8:13 PM, reach said:

 I was going rather slow, didn't master an obstacle and unmounted (stepped off).

The wheel of course fell down, powered off and died. 

The same thing happened to my brand new V10F in 2020 (first gen wheel with the grey rubber insert pedals) - I stepped off at walking speed, the wheel tipped over, switched off and was dead from that moment onwards. I even opened it up and did a hard battery reset and checked all MOSFETs for visible signs of damage, but nothing worked. The dumbass seller cost me six weeks of my yearly holiday during the best riding season too, because he was so slow to get it sent in for repair.

[BajanQQ]

On 5/20/2022 at 9:59 PM, cverse said:

This exact thing just happened to me on my new V11 that had ~15 miles on it when attempting a brake, it powered down and threw me off. Became difficult to push and won't turn on, the worst part is I think the resellers knew about the defect MOSFETs but acted as though they didn't when I approached them for support on the warranty offered by them.

Same happened to me. May I ask what reseller you had?