Popular Post Lex Smith Posted March 6, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted March 6, 2022 I keep hearing and seeing teasers of non Chinese EUCS in development but nothing seems to come to market. So far I've heard of a USA, a Spanish and a Korean attempt. These are all countries I would rather purchase from, primarily because they recognize and work to international standards. Plus I worry that every $ that goes to China will one day be financing an invasion of Taiwan. 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TantasStarke Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 3 hours ago, Lex Smith said: Plus I worry that every $ that goes to China will one day be financing an invasion of Taiwan. Have you considered buying used then? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Smith Posted March 7, 2022 Author Share Posted March 7, 2022 7 hours ago, TantasStarke said: Have you considered buying used then? Very small used market here in NZ. I already have a V11, just wish there were more options for my next wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post UniVehje Posted March 7, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted March 7, 2022 I'm assuming it is very expensive to develop and build EUC without same access to component market as the Chinese have. In Shenzhen they can literally walk to the biggest component market in the world. I've been there. The city is full of these kinds of companies and all the most able engineers are going there to work. When developing new wheels you have to test different components at quick pace (any waiting time is expensive) and you need good connections if you need anything custom. Then they have the manufacturing people right at hand. No need to automate things or outsource production. Another reason is patents. In any other country you would have to pay a lot of fees to get a wheel to market. The Chinese don't actually own the patents for EUCs and they don't need to care about it. But in other countries the patent holders would ask for their share. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Paul A Posted March 7, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted March 7, 2022 Shenzen is the consumer electronics capital of the world. Everything needed is within the one city. Similar to why Silicon Valley is the technology hub of the world. https://www.inc.com/will-yakowicz/shenzhen-city-of-electronics.html If you need a hardware manufacturer or injection-molding master, there are factories that can make your product in a few days. And since the city makes 90 percent of the world's electronics, expert packagers and shippers aren't far away. Compared with the high-end corporate tax rate of 39 percent in the U.S., China offers a relatively low corporate tax rate of 25 percent. IP theft, economic espionage, and counterfeiting are perpetrated by the state, large companies, and manufacturers. Thanks to the proximity of cheap parts, cheap manufacturers, cheap shipping, cheap labor, and crowdsourcing, this city may well be a founder's dreamworld. Great videos on YouTube about Shenzhen. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_bike_kite Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 7 hours ago, UniVehje said: The Chinese don't actually own the patents for EUCs and they don't need to care about it. But in other countries the patent holders would ask for their share. Who is the patent holder and any idea when will their patent run out? Are you allowed to enforce a patent if you're not actually producing the item yourself i.e. if all you're doing is stopping the idea going forward? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post GoGeorgeGo Posted March 7, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted March 7, 2022 45 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said: Who is the patent holder and any idea when will their patent run out? Are you allowed to enforce a patent if you're not actually producing the item yourself i.e. if all you're doing is stopping the idea going forward? https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2018/01/31/meet-the-inventor-of-the-hoverboard-who-lost-millions-to-chinese-counterfeiters/ Here is a little article about the guy who currently prevents production of euc in the usa. I believe he essentially holds the patent on self balancing hands free mobility devices. Chinese manufacturers do not legally need to respect our patent law however and so savy entrepreneurs just rip it and millions of other peoducts off. Its actually a core piece of the US Chinese fiscal tensions that our last president was upset about. Chinese companies are legally allowed to participate in the US court systems to persue international patent protections. However US citizens are not allowed to participate in the chinese legal system for international or domestic patent infringement. One way to even out the playing field is to disallow chinese companies from participating in the US system, but that would likely hurt us just as much as them. Hence the use of sanctions and tarrifs as an attempt to level the playing field some with regards to the financial landscape of our relationship. At least thats how i understand it anyways, im no expert and could have some facts jumbled so do your own research and take this internet strangers words with a grain of salt 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..... Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 (edited) SO basically, Its only illegal if you get caught. Getting 'caught' in China isnt likely . Profits from theft is the bizz model no? Catch 22, you send a patented idea to china for production. They produce it and market it for themselves and re-nig on the contract. Thereby taking your money, your idea and then selling it to the public out from under you. Amazon has similar practices, but they simply wait for a finished product to sell for you, then copy it and sell it under THEIR name. Honestly, I think Amazon is worse than China for that shit. @mike_bike_kite I dont think you even have to have a working product to patent things. I also dont think you need it be in production to TRY and enforce the patent. I could be wrong, but chasing patent infringement is costly for the persuer. Some of the owners of the planet, have patents on things they THINK will be developed in the future. Edited March 7, 2022 by ShanesPlanet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_bike_kite Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 I understand (and agree with) protecting commercial IP but only if it's protecting a real product. Here there's no product in the US so all the patent holder wants to do is to stop others from building these products. In that way, none of us would be able to ride EUCs. I'm afraid I couldn't read that forbes article as their web page doesn't allow me to turn off their cookies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 (edited) He wants revenue from licensing his patents. He could ask for enforcement through the ITC and potentially get an import ban but I think someone is actually paying him to allow importation. His patents will expire eventually, they date from the 80s iirc. If you read his patents, it's quite trivial to design around them but when you decide to do that, you need to budget for lawyers because it's highly likely you'll get sued. Even if the suit is groundless, your legal team will consume hundreds of dollars per hour. Given the size of the potential US market and the extra costs involved in manufacturing in the US, and the fact that we have lawyers that are willing to sue everyone anytime over anything as long as they get a cut... the costs far outweigh the potential profit. KS would be facing a class action lawsuit for a easily broken handle. Begode would be out of business. I mean really, I got a piece of the settlement from Apple because rather than have my old phone crash randomly because the battery was worn out, they slowed it down—but they didn't tell me, so I was harmed. Edited March 8, 2022 by Tawpie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcatraz Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 What about the safety side of things? Wouldn't a western company get shut down after their vehicle has been involved in a death or two? Certification? Rigorous testing of a third party? Large capacity battery laws and limitations? I fear even without looking at patents, there's just too much red tape for an exciting development of products in a short time. When people start to pay 5000$ for an EUC, then it might attract the interest of western companies. Problem is, then it's not a "people's" vehicle, if it's only for the wealthy, is it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TantasStarke Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 (edited) 47 minutes ago, alcatraz said: What about the safety side of things? Wouldn't a western company get shut down after their vehicle has been involved in a death or two? Doesn't futuremotion assemble their onewheels in the states? There's been a few onewheel deaths and they're still around Edited March 8, 2022 by TantasStarke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 47 minutes ago, TantasStarke said: Doesn't futuremotion assemble their onewheels in the states? They do 47 minutes ago, TantasStarke said: There's been a few onewheel deaths and they're still around They are being sued for wrongful death, more suits on the way https://www.bchlaw.com/news/2021/august/as-future-motion-faces-more-lawsuits-over-onewhe/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKW Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 Someone should contact Elon Musk and ask him to make us a telsa EUC 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKW Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 2 hours ago, alcatraz said: When people start to pay 5000$ for an EUC, then it might attract the interest of western companies. Why would it need to be 5000 dollars to attract western countries? They sell other PEVs for cheaper. It's just still a niche thing pretty much everywhere, that's the problem. Needs more popularity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhpr262 Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 1 hour ago, bkw said: Someone should contact Elon Musk and ask him to make us a telsa EUC He has publicly said he wont even make an e-kickscooter because he thinks one looks ridiculous riding them. A pretty odd statement considering some of the haircuts he has shown himself with... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcatraz Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 1 hour ago, bkw said: Why would it need to be 5000 dollars to attract western countries? They sell other PEVs for cheaper. It's just still a niche thing pretty much everywhere, that's the problem. Needs more popularity With all the red tape and overhead costs in the west, prices need to rise before it could be sustainable business for them. 5000$ is just an estimation. Maybe the real price is higher than that, or lower. But as the chinese ask for more and more, the greater the chance that a western company enters the market. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Smith Posted March 8, 2022 Author Share Posted March 8, 2022 2 hours ago, alcatraz said: With all the red tape and overhead costs in the west, prices need to rise before it could be sustainable business for them. 5000$ is just an estimation. Maybe the real price is higher than that, or lower. But as the chinese ask for more and more, the greater the chance that a western company enters the market. A NZ company came up with an innovative folding e-bke called a Yike and the entry level model is currently on sale for $4995 USD so your $5k estimate sounds pretty good. The company is for sale in case anyone is interested. We have one of them at work but they've lost the charger otherwise I would give it a go. www.yikebike.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKW Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 11 hours ago, mhpr262 said: He has publicly said he wont even make an e-kickscooter because he thinks one looks ridiculous riding them. A pretty odd statement considering some of the haircuts he has shown himself with... Well, apparently he hasn't seen an EUC before ;). If Elon made an EUC it would be pretty incredible I would imagine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhpr262 Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 5 hours ago, bkw said: If Elon made an EUC it would be pretty incredible I would imagine I'd like to think so... but one of the greatest things about EUCs is that they are so simple - a hub motor, a control board and a battery pack, thats basically it. And the biggest bottleneck on the road to faster/more powerful wheels are currently the batteries. Even the new 4680 cells Tesla will soon be using only delivers as much current as a 6P battery pack of 18650 cells, which is good but not anything special. I dont see what Musk could possibly do to make a wheel that really wows people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Maybe Musk would use the cyber truck steel. Insulated for rider comfort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcatraz Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 I doubt Elon would make a performance oriented wheel. Medium speed and medium torque in a nice package is my guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ..... Posted March 9, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted March 9, 2022 (edited) 23 hours ago, bkw said: Someone should contact Elon Musk and ask him to make us a telsa EUC Mr. Elon Musk Hello, my name is --------. I am an avid electric unicycle (EUC) rider and fan, living in North Carolina USA. I simply write/type you this email, to ask if you have ever encountered or given a moment's thought to what an euc is? As enthusiasts, we have a few social outlets. Euc.org is one I frequent. I only mention, as the euc is a niche' market that is dominated by low quality vehicles from the Chinese market. Some of us muse of what a REAL euc would look like, made from a company that puts quality and safety, a little higher up the list. Typically its in jest, but we recently saw a member asking what we thought an euc would be like, if Elon made one. So, I am just reaching out to see if you have even heard of such a device? I really am just a typical consumer, and have nothing to sell you. I have no real gains to be had. I'm just merely an aging nutjob wondering if another aging nutjob, has seen these rediculously funny, useful (and fun) things. Perhaps you have seen the euc and dismissed it. Perhaps you haven't seen one and don't care. Maybe you're a closet euc owner. If you do have the time, perhaps give a moment to let me know if you have ANY opinion of the devices. If you havent a clue what I'm describing, a quick look around the net, will find you results very easily. I have a YT page full of me riding around in rural NC. Nothing as exciting as space launches, but not near as boring as television. ShanesPlanet, that's me. Lastly, I hope you are doing well. You seem to be a VERY sharp and interesting fellow. I hope for your health and look forward to hearing from you. Thanks! Shane ----- 828-xxx-xxxx(home) FIne, I emailed him. After a week or so, I'll write him a letter. Maybe he'll chuckle if I use a real stamp and cursive. Don't hold your breath, ShanesPlanet hasnt a treaty with Elon's World. I have no idea if he'll get back to me. It may be a while, he's been rather busy lately.... Edited March 9, 2022 by ShanesPlanet 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubadragonsan Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 Tesla, Ford, GMC, all the US manufacturers definitely not interested in making EUCs because to them they are small changes. China doesn't want to spend money invading Taiwan. It's the US and her military complex want war so they can sell more weapons and make more money. China is doing business all over the world promoting peace and prosperity. The irony is that the US is trying to surround China and decouple with China. The reality is China is surrounding US economically by doing business with South America, Africa, Russia, Middle East... Wake up, people! We are doomed if the upcoming election is between Biden and Trump??? China is the world manufacturer and who are we? When are jobs coming back to America? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcatraz Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 With rising prices it is getting more and more lucrative for new actors to enter the market. It's just a matter of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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