New rider with trouble moving forwards

[meepmeepmayer]

22 minutes ago, CrumbsAndYums said:

Thanks for this tip. I've been practicing this on relatively slow speeds (8-10km/h) and it works a treat!

I'm surprised. Can you even brake hard at these low speeds before you're simply stopped?

In general, if you double these speeds, everything will be easier. Don't be afraid to accelerate strongly to get up to speed quickly (and without an intermediate wobbly low-speed phase). Also brake quickly.

Think of learning to ride a bicycle... too slow and you're just unstable and balancing is harder. So a certain baseline speed (maybe 15kph?) helps.

Anyways, you know best what works for you and what you are actually doing. Just saying my thoughts

[Hellkitten]

Awesome! You’re well on your way now. It’s more or less about practice from here. Dialling in the subtle movements and shifting of weight, mounting, dismounting. Things that will come with time. Congrats on your journey. It’s a lot of fun. 

[Tawpie]

15 hours ago, CrumbsAndYums said:

Do I risk having the same issue if I adjusted the pedals to tilt forwards via an app?

I have no idea actually... I was surprised at my empirical discovery. But it does makes sense. If my feet are landing 'flat' and the pedals are not the same 'flat'. it has to look like an input to the control system.

I do know lots of folks run post-calibration tilt via the apps and are not plagued with overcurrent warnings. I entertained doing that to cancel the effect of my boots being higher in the heel than the toe box, but didn't and just got used to riding in them.

[CrumbsAndYums]

17 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I'm surprised. Can you even brake hard at these low speeds before you're simply stopped?

It could be that I'm still slow to shift my weight backwards while stopping. Using the method you mentioned, I can throw my weight backwards much faster and needing less time & distance to stop.

I definitely agree about the speed thing... just need the space to be comfortable going faster. I can't wait get outdoors but it has been rain and I'm still waiting for the full face helmet to arrive (express shipping that turned out to be slower than regular mail).

 

[Parallax33]

On 12/21/2021 at 1:03 AM, Paul A said:

Could try the strap idea.

Not sure if training wheels are still around.

The training strap looks a good idea…

[mrelwood]

3 hours ago, Parallax33 said:

The training strap looks a good idea…

It really isn’t though. In the video it might help overcome a lack of confidence on the first try, since the rider doesn’t need to balance left to right due to the training wheels. But even in the video they took the strap off before they even took the training wheels off. So unless you are using training wheels, forget about the strap.

When you’re actually trying to balance with the wheel, you need your both hands and your whole body to be available for balancing movements. A strap takes half of it away, slowing down the learning process.

 Besides, many wheels have a lift motor kill button under the handle, or a sensor in the handle. Even if you try to remember to switch it off, it’s a receipt for a disaster when the wheel suddenly turns off as you’re about to start or stop.

[Tawpie]

28 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

It really isn’t though

I tend to agree, although I didn't try one so don't listen to me. The reason I wouldn't recommend a strap is that it is another distraction and managing a strap is another reason to not look straight ahead. In my mind I think you want to be able to move your arms freely as your body seeks balance. (I call it 'fledging', cuz you're a baby bird trying to figure out how to fly). Watch a video of a little kid... they balance with their arms. I've even been experimenting with returning the arm waving as I'm learning to go backwards. When I'm basically stopped in the transition, using my arms to maintain balance is the only thing that seems to work. It's really difficult to do weight transfer when your side-to-side balance point has three or four degrees of freedom. At least for me.

Others will disagree—and rightly so! Just because "Tawpie didn't do it" is no reason for you not to see if it works for you. In fact, it would be a horrible reason, perhaps the worst I can imagine. Experiment and find what works—sort of the byline of these things. There is no universal answer except wear the gear. And balance your battery cells every time you charge.

Edited January 1, 2022 by Tawpie

[.....]

Just keep standing on it and leaning. it will eventually happen. The thing about training crutches is that you end up having to retrain w/o them anyhow. Jump in the pool, you won't drown.

[OldFartRides]

I used a shopping cart the first four twenty minute sessions. Then I used the belt for maybe two months.

I liked being able to keep the wheel from getting away from me / catching it when I bailed so it it wasn’t getting banged up right off the bat. 
 
As my skills improved I started going without it.  If I’d remembered to take one with me, I’d have felt better when I had water to both sides of the towpath on the C&O.

Best,

[Hellkitten]

I took @OldFartRides advice on the shopping cart. It helped a bit in the beginning, just to get a proper feel for things. I used it for about 30 min total in two or three sessions. I did mess around with the leash a bit, but found just catching my wheel by hand was easier. I brought the leash with me, just stopped using it. Be very careful of hitting the motor kill switch as @mrelwood mentioned. 

The best thing that really got me started was two basketball hoop posts side by side about 15 feet apart. I held one to mount and get stabilized then launched myself over to the next one. I’d either grab hold and stop or use one arm to swing around one then head over again to the other. I did that a fair bit as well as using some railings on some ramps. Having the safety of the posts for mounting, but then the open area to be hands free really helped me in the long run. After I was confident to leave the posts, I did a lot of circles, figure eights and straight stretches in a parking lot. Just be more stubborn then your wheel, everything else will follow. Lol. 

[Julian Lo]

After watching someone using this for 18 minutes and then riding the EUC without it, I was intrigued. https://youtu.be/EB3d411fVRw 

So I made one myself using zip ties instead. 

I am an absolute newbie.  After a few short rides in my kitchen, I know this is very helpful.  I am sure I will take it off after one hour of practice.

[Funky]

I still remember how hard it was at start... I learned on ks16s.

Over 4 test rides.. Each was about 10-20min long. (The days when our family drove with car somewhere..) So those 4 times was over 2 weeks or so..

First 3 times i could not even move a feet!.. Let alone ride. As soon i lift my second foot the wheel fell down.. Also legs sides where the wheel presses againts hurt alot.

(+having 2x the normal person weight did not help, YES i'm a chunky guy)

But at 4th time i was already riding, going circles, so on.. My brain simply clicked?? I don't know how..

Doh my feet placement was half over the pedal, in front.. Was easy to start going.. (Later i learned more, leaning so on.. My feet now stays middle on pedals)

(I think i learned riding in sleep.. Muscle memory, etc.. Over many none riding days.)

+You need to remember, that you need to keep balancing the wheel from side to side (pedals). Front/Back the wheel holds you up.

Then i bought 18xl for me self.. First ride on it was easy  Then i started to learn control via one leg on wheel one leg on ground going in circles around the foot on ground..

(Most important was the place where your leg sits against the wheel, you need to control wheel movement like it would be bike handlebar, but using one leg.)

(Stepping on wheel all weight presses against that one leg.)

After some time i was already riding via one leg.

>>Funny thing i'm riding not my dominant leg.. If someone pushes my from back, i step forward with left leg, but i start riding on wheel with right leg.

When i try stepping on the wheel with my "other leg" first. It feels like i start from 0. Need to relearn all.

Now i'm learning to ride backwards.. Little bit already can be ridden.

All this was done in first 100km.

At first it felt like HOW THE HECK can it be ridden.. Now it's like a bike. <3

Edited January 2, 2022 by Funky

[BKW]

It seems it's a mental block if you can freely move back and forth while holding onto the wall. My first day -- a month ago -- I was able to ride in a basketball court after an hour. The first day I didn't mess with the PSI and it was the same PSI out the box. However, the second day I pumped up the PSI and I couldn't even get on the thing, let alone ride it! The third day I went back out and played with the PSI around 30-40psi and I was able to ride, so for me it was a PSI thing. PSI is very important imo. Why don't you get someone to hold onto so you can move forward consistently?

Edited January 2, 2022 by bkw

[Paul A]

Arms flailing, outstretched at beginning stages can help.

A wire-walker may use a pole for balance or may stretch out his arms perpendicular to his trunk in the manner of a pole. This technique provides several advantages. It distributes mass away from the pivot point, thereby increasing the moment of inertia.

 

[Scottie]

17 hours ago, Julian Lo said:

After watching someone using this for 18 minutes and then riding the EUC without it, I was intrigued. https://youtu.be/EB3d411fVRw 

That was very clever. If I ever get the chance to teach another person to ride, I will remember to try the training brushes!

[Julian Lo]

1 hour ago, Scottie said:

That was very clever. If I ever get the chance to teach another person to ride, I will remember to try the training brushes!

The original idea may have come from this guy.  But his business never took off due to lack of interest.

 

[OldFartRides]

Bow tie suit ? Really ?

[CrumbsAndYums]

I love how the wheel just waddles along slowly with the training brushes. XD

[Julian Lo]

10 hours ago, CrumbsAndYums said:

I love how the wheel just waddles along slowly with the training brushes. XD

I took my wheel with the DIY training brushes to a basket ball court.  I had no problem with free mounting without holding onto anything.  But the "waddling" part is actually a flaw in the design concept (as shown in the SlowWheel brush video).  When the brush touches the ground left and right, it causes the wheel to wobble even with equal pressure on the pedals from both feet.  If I increased the speed, I would lose control of the wheel.  I think the shopping cart idea is better, or even better, a cheap/free rollator so that I can practice anywhere near my home and no one would object.  It's time to take the brushes off.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Julian Lo
spelling

[OldFartRides]

Whatever you use, it needs some weight to it. Full size cart can be tipped if you put too much leverage on the handlebar.

Anything light weight won’t give you the stability you need starting out.

Best,

[Paul A]

Maybe some sporting fields have a handrail encircling the playing field?

Disability wheelchair access ramps at schools might have a handrail along the side?

A playground with an overhead zipline?

 

[rcgldr]

On 1/1/2022 at 7:01 PM, Paul A said:

Arms flailing, outstretched at beginning stages can help. ... like tight rope walker

Tight rope style can be used, but arm flailing is usually done side to side (for twisting motion), flail left to steer right and vice versa, to steer into fall and to guide the EUC. I was able to do laps around a tennis court on my first try at arm flailing at 3 to 5 mph. I then moved to a long straight and found my V8F became stable at 6 to 8 mph, where I didn't have to focus on balance any more. I then worked on leaning forwards | backwards to accelerate | brake, which turned out to be instinctive. For tilt steering (move inner foot down, outer foot up to tilt the EUC), I first just tilted the V8F a bit to see how it would respond. I then tried a mild weave side to side, and later large radius turns. During this time I was using support to mount and launch as recommended by Kuji Rolls and Wrong Way. Since I could now ride, I then tried free mount, just a couple of steps and hop on, since I already knew how to ride.

Video of 3 year old kid arm flailing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9YiHu5HJ6o

Video of advanced riders using arm flailing while nearly stopped:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro3o8U9uZeU&t=57s

Tilt steering improved more gradually, getting better at estimating how much to body lean versus how much to tilt EUC, depending on speed and turning radius. Over time, the foot movements to tilt steer became mostly reflexive. Slow speed, tight turns required some adjustment to improve on them.

I used this video as a guide for tilt steering, since the girl in the video is almost motionless (no arm flailing, no body twisting, no carving), just body leaning and tilting her S18 a bit less than body lean due to weight and speed. She does a weave pattern near the end, which I emulated when first learning to tilt steer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hWMwK3Cfs0

 

[Hellkitten]

I tried tying a rope between the basketball hoop posts I was using, but ultimately it was to wobbly for any use for me anyway. I went back to the accessibility ramp with railings and the hoop posts when I was ready for launching. 

[.....]

I simply don't understand why the insistence on using crutches? FInd a nice soft flat yard, grow a pair and just keep trying. IN a soft yard, you dont even need to wear gear. It aint like GRASS is gna shatter an elbow. Gear aint gna keep you from twisting an ankle. My first 'crash' was in a yard. I decided to jump off and realized you cant run as fast as you think. I hit the ground and rolled. It was grass tho, so I learned a lesson, stained a tee shirt and was no more than a little sore. The amount of time spent thinking about it and finding tools, is more than the time it would take to free mount. Seriously guys and gals. Im not a whizz at learning. IT took me 3-5 15minute days in soft grass, then onto a deserted street. I still suck, but getting moving, shouldnt be THAT big a deal. WHen we learned to walk, we pretty much had to let go and go for it, didnt we?  What I lack in skill, I made up for in 'not give a sh*t'. Dont dip your toes in, jump in the pool. This aint an activity for the timid.

Edited January 3, 2022 by ShanesPlanet

[Funky]

Simply start riding..

No hand holding, no wall, no carts, no nothing. It's easy using those as leverage.. Simply go on grass/sand (or somewhere if you fall it will be softer), and start riding  

That's what i did, no gear or whatsoever. (Had my first face plant, but at low speed simply "Belly flopped")

Heck at home it was easy using wall.. The problem started when you released the hand. 

If you always use a leverage. You generally aren't learning at all? Same thing as standing, you just stand on wheel, no balancing at all. Easy peasy lemon cheesy.

Getting on/off wheel you could use some leverage, but in long run, it will take more time learning that way.