Inmotion V13 Speculation

[Punxatawneyjoe]

41 minutes ago, rebeuc said:

replace parts

Let's hope that won't be necessary. So far the vids are looking good. She looks stable and smooth. The suspension is a minor concern but only for the clearance which looks to be way better than the v11. The v11 suspension has been great , just not a ton of clearance, i have bashed mine off many rocks. It's been a great wheel for off road though. Not that i have much to compare it to but i can overtake a mountain bike through the woods so i would say it's decent. Can't wait to get the 13 though and it looks like in January i will be having to screw ice screws into the tire as soon as i get it....

[rebeuc]

11 minutes ago, rebeuc said:

Somehow I had missed this video:

 

I spotted this quote from the original poster of that video in the youtube comments when he was asked about the range vs sherman.

A bit concerning what he says about the battery life mentioning he can get it down to throttled limited speed in as little as 20 miles of travel, although this is a beta unit:

Quote

I do not own a Sherman to compare it to, but vs my EXN.HT I can comment on. My EX.N HT can give me about 45 miles of distance during our club's faster rides. I'm big so I get beeps at 38mph on the EX.N. If I ride the V13 at a similar avg speed, I can probably surpass the range on my old wheel. BUT, if I ride the V13 and say average 40mph, the range begins to drop steeply. No matter what, were limited by our current battery technology and how much energy vs size and weight of the cells they can pack in. That said, I've been averaging around 40 miles of range doing the test rides where i live. Thats riding it how I feel it wants to be ridden, not paying attention to my speed and just going. I avg. appx 29mph with a few dashes at up to 50mph. If I just go full send the whole time, then i can probably kill the battery down to the "no-fun, throttled zone" in around 20 miles. I honestly think Inmotion is on the right path with their design philosophy, The build quality of both the wheel itself as well as the electronics has been done with rider safety in mind. I hope this helps, Thanks for the question!

I am still hoping to hear about a longer range test that doesn't go faster than the 30mph range as that is my expected use case

[OldFartRides]

Unboxing at EUCO live. One hr. In at 10 PM on 12/15.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaYhDF6v8og

 

[onizukagto]

3 hours ago, rebeuc said:

I spotted this quote from the original poster of that video in the youtube comments when he was asked about the range vs sherman.

A bit concerning what he says about the battery life mentioning he can get it down to throttled limited speed in as little as 20 miles of travel, although this is a beta unit:

I am still hoping to hear about a longer range test that doesn't go faster than the 30mph range as that is my expected use case

He says he gets 20 miles going at 90km/h, so 20miles at 55mph is pretty good! Don't think any of the begodes can sustain 55mph for more then a mile. lol. 
 

[Eyss]

3 hours ago, rebeuc said:

am still hoping to hear about a longer range test that doesn't go faster than the 30mph range as that is my expected use case

5 hours ago, rebeuc said:

This wasn't exactly the point of this video, but look at how easy it will be to replace parts like the trolley handle, battery packs, and pedals on this thing!

 

Yeah a really nice well thought out design. Very clean.

I plan on changing my tire after getting it so I'm happy to see it won't be a pain. 

[techyiam]

46 minutes ago, onizukagto said:

He says he gets 20 miles going at 90km/h, so 20miles at 55mph is pretty good! Don't think any of the begodes can sustain 55mph for more then a mile. lol. 
 

Like ah....   did anyone really rode for 20 miles continuously at 90 km/h on an electric wheel?

Hard to believe. Where would you do that? Anyone making the claim needs to show proof.

Aside from police, there are wind gusts, potholes, animals, and other motorists to contend with. I think it is a tall order.

Or, are we really talking about a burst here and a burst there?

Edited December 16, 2022 by techyiam

[techyiam]

I think smartwheel.ca unboxing video confirms the raising of the bar for build quality by the V13, especially if one looks at the smaller details.

Even something as simple as the pedal rod, it is more intricate than on your typical wheel. Notice the pedal rod is not just a simple round rod. 

On the V12, the pedal rod is a round rod with a flat side. That rod has a matching profile bore in the pedal hanger. Moreover, the bore in the pedals is coated with a very durable rubber coating. It is a tight fit between the pedal rod and the pedal bore. As a result, the pedal bore as well as a portion of the pedal rod is protected from corrosion. Plus, the pedals doesn't have play nor does it flop up and down. As well, it provides a little cushioning from vibrations.

The V13 version seems to be even more advanced. 

It could be a tough call between the V13 and the Sherman-S for speedy urban commuting. 

 

Edited December 16, 2022 by techyiam

[Freeforester]

3 hours ago, techyiam said:

It could be a tough call between the V13 and the Sherman-S for speedy urban commuting

..Only if your commute does not involve ‘unexpected events’ requiring quick deceleration, or some nimble manoeuvres at low speed between the long speedy bits, I’m guessing, a bit like the analogy you mention re the 20miles (30km) @90km (+/-50mph)… outwith these constraints or eventualities, then possibly so…

[techyiam]

25 minutes ago, Freeforester said:

..Only if your commute does not involve ‘unexpected events’ requiring quick deceleration, or some nimble manoeuvres at low speed between the long speedy bits, I’m guessing, a bit like the analogy you mention re the 20miles (30km) @90km (+/-50mph)… outwith these constraints or eventualities, then possibly so…

Regarding emergency braking, or nimble manoeuvring at low speeds, I still would still have to ride them both before deciding. The reason for this stem from my recent experience on my 97 lbs., 22" Abrams. It totally surprised me after updating to the latest firmware, and adding two capacitors, and getting a bit more time on it.

It accelerates and brakes quite similarly to my V12 with similar effort. Mind you, I haven't started to ride at high speed yet. On my Abrams, I can U-turn within 150% width of a standard sidewalk for now. That is only because I just started to do this. I won't be surprised I can improve with practice. There is no pedal dip. It rides nothing like I expected. It is much more favorable. There is the additional inertia and gyro to be sure, but it doesn't really make that much of a difference with the right technique, and practice. 

The Abrams weighs about 33 lbs more. And the V12 is a 16" wheel. 

Hence, I can't be sure how either the Sherman-S or V13 will ride. The proof will be in the pudding.

[Punxatawneyjoe]

47 minutes ago, Freeforester said:

events’ requiring quick deceleration, or some nimble manoeuvres at low speed between the long speedy bits,

I'm not sure this wheel is the tank everyone is making it out to be. Sure it's heavy and a bit larger than others but its still one wheel and from everything ive seen it seems to turn/stop and maneuver like all other wheels. I have thought about it a lot because i was a bit torn between getting this one or the Sherman s. I feel like the extra 25 lbs wont really be that noticeable until you have to lift it and since I'm not 90 lifting it shouldn't be a problem. I relate it to the street bike i chose. I could have bought a 300lb 250cc commuter bike but instead i have a 780lb Royal star. It can't stop and maneuver as good as a lighter bike but if you know what you are doing it's pretty close. Also as a result I'm not getting blown around on the highway as much as the smaller bikes so i prefer a heavier bike just like i will probably prefer a heavier wheel. I like the build quality of inmotion wheels and the suspension on the Sherman is basically the same pogo stick design as the v13 so i think i will be happy with the 13. If you weigh 120lbs soaking wet , this probably isn't the wheel for you but at 190 . It shouldn't be a problem.  Only time will tell and i'm glad i have a bit more to see some more reviews. If i hate it i will just sell it.

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

I could have bought a 300lb 250cc commuter bike but instead i have a 780lb Royal star.

I guess your Royal Star doesn't move in crosswinds. 

I have seen a retired motorcycle cop led a dealer-sponsored demo ride. Boy, can he ride on a Harley, especially at low speeds. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by techyiam

[DragonFZ]

4 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

...and the suspension on the Sherman is basically the same pogo stick design as the v13 so i think i will be happy with the 13.

I am on the fence between Sherman-S and V13. From the YouTube reviews so far, the Sherman-S suspension are not the same pogo stick design as the V11. I want to find out if the V13 suspension requires pumping air. Kuji shows using a special tool to adjust, but do you have to pump air into 8 different chambers?

[Mango]

Kuji kinda glossed over the suspension system of the V13. I would have liked to see more in-depth review of the suspension rather than so much more of his speed riding around various locations, but that's his thing.

Going to wait for Eco-drift teardown.

Anyone seen Laxina's praise for the V13, he is saying he's going to buy his own personal copy. The ergonomics and safety features are winning me over.

 

[Lets Do Science]

17 minutes ago, DragonFZ said:

do you have to pump air into 8 different chambers?

Two chambers located at the bottom of the wheel. 

 

18 minutes ago, DragonFZ said:

I am on the fence between Sherman-S and V13.

$4,000+ 100V wheel in 2023 is unacceptable, the choice should be easy. 

[Clem604]

5 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

 the suspension on the Sherman is basically the same pogo stick design as the v13

I'm not sure that's true (about the suspension) but I'm all for having more options on the market. That way you can enjoy your incoming V13 and I can enjoy my Sherman S whenever it comes in.

Edited December 16, 2022 by Clem604

[Paul A]

Battery/range/speed specs

 

Sherman S       100V       3600Wh.        Max Range: ~ 230 km (143 miles)        Max Speed: ~ 75km/h (46mph)

V13                   126V       3024Wh         Max Range: 200km  (124 miles)            Max Speed: cap at 90 kph (56mph)

[Freeforester]

25 minutes ago, Lets Do Science said:

Two chambers located at the bottom of the wheel. 

 

$4,000+ 100V wheel in 2023 is unacceptable, the choice should be easy. 

Care to explain your rationale for the latter statement? It’s not the range afforded, surely, judging by that of the 126v V13, and nor can it be for most the top speed, 89,5kph + Sherman S vs 90kph of the V13? 
 

 

Edited December 16, 2022 by Freeforester

[rebeuc]

1 hour ago, DragonFZ said:

I am on the fence between Sherman-S and V13. From the YouTube reviews so far, the Sherman-S suspension are not the same pogo stick design as the V11. I want to find out if the V13 suspension requires pumping air. Kuji shows using a special tool to adjust, but do you have to pump air into 8 different chambers?

They cover this around midway through the Euco unboxing video that had been posted earlier:

14 hours ago, OldFartRides said:

Unboxing at EUCO live. One hr. In at 10 PM on 12/15.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaYhDF6v8og

 

[InfiniteWheelie]

1 hour ago, Paul A said:

Battery/range/speed specs

 

Sherman S       100V       3600Wh.        Max Range: ~ 230 km (143 miles)        Max Speed: ~ 75km/h (46mph)

V13                   126V       3024Wh         Max Range: 200km  (124 miles)            Max Speed: cap at 90 kph (56mph)

Sherman-S (Samsung 50E cells) - 4.9 ah x 3.6 v x 192 cells = 3,386.88 Wh 

It's not 3,600 Wh, and never has been. I'm not singling you out, but people should really stop repeating this lie from LeaperKim. My calculation uses numbers directly from the Samsung 50E spec sheet. Just round up (truthfully) and call it 3,400 Wh.

Edited December 16, 2022 by InfiniteWheelie

[Punxatawneyjoe]

2 hours ago, DragonFZ said:

same pogo stick design as the V11.

I'm not sure what else you would call two vertical shocks mounted in the center that move up and down. Granted it's not exactly the same but in principal it's mostly the same in my opinion.

[MrMonoWheel]

Just wanted to pop in and mention that the issue isn't really with the air pistons and dampers, it's with the slider-on-rail design if the suspension itself that causes it to get stiff and sticky after a short time. 

[Paul A]

42 minutes ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

Samsung 50E spec sheet

 

Google searching for Samsung 50E brings up many sources for specifications.

Seems quite a few are stating 5000mAh.

The calculation would then be 5 ah x 3.6 v x 192 cells = 3,456 Wh

Not the claimed 3600Wh.

Still a significant increase from the V13 claim of 3024 Wh though.

 

[RagingGrandpa]

*ahem*

V13 uses 18650-size cells...

240 of them, to be precise.
Exactly the same capacity as the OG Sherman (3108wh using 3.7Vnom).
 

Edited December 16, 2022 by RagingGrandpa

[UPONIT]

  I just saw two V13s up close!

I wasn't allowed to touch them, so this is "appearance-only" comments. But DAMN!   Just seeing them in the flesh... it is a good looking wheel. I haven't watched the EUCO unboxing video yet. But so far, I don't think anyone has talked about the fit and finish too much? Because this is a really polished, really professional looking machine. Pics and vids don't do it justice. Tight tolerances. No gaps at seams. The orange looks fantastic.

It is remarkably tall and way more slim than it looks in videos. I guess the camera really does add 10 lbs. It looks heavy, but in a good way. Solid. I don't mean to gush, and yes, it was all shined up for photo/videos, but it truly does look like a new high point of EUC industrial design. It is just... "ready for primetime." If InMotion put as much love into the guts as they did the exterior design/materials/tolerances, this is going to make people who want what it has to offer VERY HAPPY.

Got to go watch those videos now...

4 hours ago, Paul A said:

Battery/range/speed specs

 

Sherman S       100V       3600Wh.        Max Range: ~ 230 km (143 miles)        Max Speed: ~ 75km/h (46mph)

V13                   126V       3024Wh         Max Range: 200km  (124 miles)            Max Speed: cap at 90 kph (56mph)

I find it helpful to calculate amperage at max nominal motor wattage, convert battery Wh to Ah, and see how many minutes the motor could run at full throttle.

Sherman - S = 30A, 34Ah = 68 minutes

V13 = 35.7A, 24Ah = 41 minutes

I have a spreadsheet (yes, nerd) of this calculation and others (like equiv HP, etc.) on e-bikes, eucs and scooters I've been interested in, and the longest (theoretical) runtime at 100% throttle of all the PEVs is actually the Sherman - S., which is very interesting. It even beat the Master Pro, at 64 minutes. (Counting only PEVs with motors above 1kW).

I realize that real-world range includes a ton of other factors, but this at least lets me get fairly close to a numbers-only comparison.

Edited December 16, 2022 by UPONIT
Clean up

[Punxatawneyjoe]

1 hour ago, MrMonoWheel said:

slider-on-rail design if the suspension itself that causes it to get stiff and sticky after a short time. 

I have 1,200 mi on mine and it isn't the least bit sticky or stiff. At what point does this happen?