Inmotion V13 Speculation

[UPONIT]

4 hours ago, Kekafuch said:

Pretty sure they agreeed to have Kuji introduce the world to V13 on Sunday. 

That would explain things. But if he paid for the wheel himself, how would InMotion enforce that?

Regardless, thankful he posted it...

[Paul A]

V13 is more expensive than a Honda Grom motorcycle, 125cc, top speed around 73mph, 231 pounds.

Are EUCs getting overpriced?

 

https://www.ewheels.com/product/inmotion-v13-1000-deposit/

Ewheels
Inmotion V13.

Early-bird preorder price $3,999

 

 

https://hbhonda.com/Motorcycles-Honda-Grom-2022-Huntington-Beach-CA-e6bc8b79-f5f3-489a-966f-ace5001eab14

Huntington Beach Honda

2022 Honda Grom

MSRP $3,399

 

[techyiam]

9 minutes ago, Paul A said:

V13 is more expensive than a Honda Grom motorcycle, 125cc, top speed around 73mph, 231 pounds.

Are EUCs getting overpriced?

Apples to oranges comparison. 

Comparing Electric Wheels to other PEV's or electric motorcycles would be more reasonable. 

Edited December 9, 2022 by techyiam

[360rumors]

The Honda Grom price is misleading because there are dealer prep fees and other fees.  The out the door price is closer to $5,000.  But yes I've wondered the same thing too.  My only justification is that perhaps Honda is much more efficient and able to produce the Grom in much larger volumes to achieve economies of scale.

 

[Robse]

You need a drivers license to operate the Honda.  The EUC only demands a little talent for reckless riding, and there ya go !  In the end this option for high speed like an MC is what will cause us all lots of legislative trouble in the future.     But in spite of this, i want one , as soon as they strip it down to max 40 kg. 

[Paul A]

If:

V13 has 3024 Wh battery capacity

And the batteries used are Samsung 50E, 21700, 5000mAh, 3.6V...............Wh = Amps x Volts......5 x 3.6 = 18 Wh per battery

Then 3024 / 18 = 168 batteries

And each battery costs $4.25 USD

Then 168 x 4.25 = $714  USD cost of batteries

 

https://www.imrbatteries.com/samsung-50e-21700-5000mah-9-8a-battery/

Samsung 50E battery specifications and retail bulk pricing of purchase of 520 ($4.25 USD) or more batteries

 

The cost of batteries using these data sources is $714 USD.

V13 is priced at $4000 USD.

[techyiam]

37 minutes ago, 360rumors said:

The Honda Grom price is misleading because there are dealer prep fees and other fees.  The out the door price is closer to $5,000.  But yes I've wondered the same thing too.  My only justification is that perhaps Honda is much more efficient and able to produce the Grom in much larger volumes to achieve economies of scale.

 

Here is an example. Look at the Mini Cooper S, 3 doors. The EV version costs more.

[LowFlyingSquirrel]

Compare to a hummer ev around 250 kwh and 1000 kw peak for 110,000. 440 per kwh and 110 per kw peak. V13 is 3 kwh and 10 kw peak for 4000. 1300 per kwh and 400 per kw peak. Would be interesting to know how much the hummer ev battery pack costs, probably 1/3 of the rrp. 

[Robse]

Overpriced or underpriced - I don't see much point in that discussion as long as it is a very special product for very special customers - customers who can be regarded as religiously fanatically addicted to EUC and beyond;  Whoever owns the pig decides the price. 

[LowFlyingSquirrel]

If you don't assess the value, you might as well be the pig going to slaughter. Lowers prices and better value makes barrier to entry lower for more people, which means better market conditions for manufacturers to produce more and in return will benefit consumers with more choices and better value.

[Robse]

2 minutes ago, LowFlyingSquirrel said:

If you don't assess the value, you might as well be the pig going to slaughter. Lowers prices and better value makes barrier to entry lower for more people, which means better market conditions for manufacturers to produce more and in return will benefit consumers with more choices and better value.

Oh uh no . no no no ...  Lover prices and better value - these two words cannot and must not be in the same sentence .  Chinese production don't work that way.

[The Brahan Seer]

2 hours ago, Robse said:

Whoever owns the pig decides the price. 

Its whoever wants to own the pig who decides the price.

[Paul A]

Put lipstick on it and up the price?

[Paradox]

4 hours ago, Paul A said:

If:

V13 has 3024 Wh battery capacity

And the batteries used are Samsung 50E, 21700, 5000mAh, 3.6V...............Wh = Amps x Volts......5 x 3.6 = 18 Wh per battery

Then 3024 / 18 = 168 batteries

And each battery costs $4.25 USD

Then 168 x 4.25 = $714  USD cost of batteries

I thought the V13 was using 18650 batteries?

[Paul A]

@Paradox

I thought the V13 was using 18650 batteries?

 

On 8/18/2022 at 11:10 AM, techyiam said:

eWheels is offering the choices of Samsung 50E and 40T, but the 40T comes with 1kWh less battery capacity. But no Li-Tech.

 

Edited December 9, 2022 by Paul A

[Paradox]

1 minute ago, Paul A said:

@Paradox

I thought the V13 was using 18650 batteries?

 

 

[Freeforester]

2 hours ago, The Brahan Seer said:

Its whoever wants to own the pig who decides the price.

For the more common breeds - perhaps, but generally not for the champion stock; wanting is not the same as owning.  🤔😳😆

[Paul A]

@Paradox

From the ewheels website currently.

Does seem ewheels is planning to have the 18650 batteries then.

 

What battery cells are used?
Details on this element have yet to be determined, however, the V13 will be using the 18650 format cells. 

[Paul A]

V13 has 3024 Wh battery capacity.

Samsung 35E, 18650, 3500 mAh, 3.6 V.......Wh = Amps x Volts......3.5 x 3.6 = 12.6 Wh per battery

3024 / 12.6 = 240 batteries

Retail bulk purchase price for Samsung 35E is $3.95 USD

Then 240 x 3.95 = $948 USD cost of batteries

 

https://www.imrbatteries.com/samsung-35e-18650-3500mah-8a-battery/

Samsung 35E specifications and retail bulk buy price.

[Paul D]

6 hours ago, 360rumors said:

The Honda Grom price is misleading because there are dealer prep fees and other fees.  The out the door price is closer to $5,000.  But yes I've wondered the same thing too.  My only justification is that perhaps Honda is much more efficient and able to produce the Grom in much larger volumes to achieve economies of scale.

 

I can’t ride that motorcycle anywhere I want. I go from street to sidewalk to trail on my euc. That has some value to me. Also, I love the quiet experience. 

[Jon Wall]

21 minutes ago, Paulyd75 said:

I can’t ride that motorcycle anywhere I want. I go from street to sidewalk to trail on my euc. That has some value to me. Also, I love the quiet experience. 

That sums it up for me.  

[The Brahan Seer]

2 hours ago, Freeforester said:

For the more common breeds - perhaps, but generally not for the champion stock; wanting is not the same as owning.  🤔😳😆

You misunderstood my comment. Champion stock price is derived by what people are willing to pay for it too. Whether that price is high or low is of no consequence. I imagine they usually sell for a high price but the market dictates that and I'm sure someone offering more than what you ask will not be refused.

Ultimately its what a buyer is prepared to pay. In an auction it certainly isn't the seller dictating the price either. But we digress...

 

[Eucner]

8 hours ago, Paul A said:

Are EUCs getting overpriced?

7 hours ago, Robse said:

Whoever owns the pig decides the price. 

4 hours ago, The Brahan Seer said:

Its whoever wants to own the pig who decides the price.

16 minutes ago, The Brahan Seer said:

Ultimately its what a buyer is prepared to pay. In an auction it certainly isn't the seller dictating the price either. But we digress...

The price is what seller and buyer agree. If one doesn't agree there is no sales.

[MrMonoWheel]

A lot of people mention the Honda Grom argument, saying I could buy a new Grom or used motorcycle for the price of one of the new EUCs. I tell them this.

First off, an EUC has no DMV registration and no insurance payments. Second, (in my area at least) a USED Grom can't be had for less than 4k and by this point they are pretty beat up. New ones leave the showroom floor for $5k+.

But my biggest point regarding this: show me a motorcycle I can throw in my trunk, bring with me in an elevator, store in the break room at my work, or tuck it away in the corner of the classroom. I have a motorcycle, and the EUC has been massively more useful as a vehicle. I put my EUC in the trunk of my car and park 2 miles away from class to avoid all traffic and parking fees, then I ride the EUC straight to the classroom door. 

And on the subjective side, riding an EUC can be much more enjoyable. First of all it's silent (barring wind noise), its non intrusive only requiring your legs for operation, it's extremely minimalistic literally being a single wheel, and I can take routes and see things that cars/motorcycles never could do.

Sure on paper an EUC and a cheap motorcycle cost the same, but you are paying for an entirely different end user experience. The fact that the V13 is getting closer to a mini-motorcycle is actually a good thing to me, as I'll have the performance and reliability while still being able to do all these things.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Unicycle Santa

[Freeforester]

1 hour ago, The Brahan Seer said:

You misunderstood my comment. Champion stock price is derived by what people are willing to pay for it too. Whether that price is high or low is of no consequence. I imagine they usually sell for a high price but the market dictates that and I'm sure someone offering more than what you ask will not be refused.

Ultimately its what a buyer is prepared to pay. In an auction it certainly isn't the seller dictating the price either. But we digress...

 

Perhaps I did, but don’t forget the aspect which determines champions from the rest - relative scarcity value; it is true that run of the herd stock will settle at generally market dictated prices, however this does neither impact nor tend to lessen the premium offered for a premium product of relative scarcity or indeed niche commodity. Limited editions are never knowingly undersold. The auction is a function of the marketplace, ie the price the winning bid closes upon dictates the top price someone is willing to pay (-not unlike an airfreighted wheel for the cash rich but time poor/impatient buyer); most EUC’s are not sold at auction, however, and if the shop retailer is offering goods of limited quantities and perceived high quality (think any top of the range items), then the vendor is able to offer these at good margin, assured that the relative scarcity value means there will be sufficient demand to satisfy the relatively limited supply. Manufacturers often also have a say in the floor price.

To consider that the V13 may be available from any dealer offering after sales service backup at anything other than a premium is all well and good, but I wouldn’t bet the farm on it, much less hold my breath until such time that it transpires, but time will tell. So far it does not seem to be a lemon,  and as and when this wheel is confirmed that it is indeed a great cruiser, the price will be determined accordingly, along with the value accorded by those buying. I don’t see it being offered at a knockdown price in the autumn sales next year, but again who knows?

Edited December 9, 2022 by Freeforester