Inmotion V13 Speculation

[Punxatawneyjoe]

Suspension looks like it works pretty good to me , Chooch Tech really knows how to ride this wheel.

 

[2disbetter]

Is it really that cold in the middle of summer in Colorado? That state just keeps getting more desirable to me. hahaha. 

[UPONIT]

Wow.

I finally rented a V13 for a couple days. It is an amazing machine. 

I rode it with suspension for half a day then took it out and kept it that way. For paved paths, city street riding and light off-roading in parks, no-suspension wins by a mile. The weight and tire size, combined with  super low COG made it amazingly stable. And with the right pedal settings (Thank you, @SquallLHeart!), it was quicker to accelerate and brake. I could freemount from a complete standstill. Cornering and carving were easy, even at low speeds. I couldn't consistently do tight 180s in the time I had it, especially with the stock knobby tire, but I feel like it would've come quickly with a smoother tread. Tight 90s were easy and solid.

Not a fan of the stock tire. It tracked in its grooves and train tracked on surfaces I didn't expect. But even then I didn't feel unsteady, just interfered with. 

And yeah, it's heavy, but not obnoxious. It's easier to throw in the truck than my RCR. And something in the algorithm makes it really good at pushing up stairs without it going bananas. So I didn't have to carry it.

I never came close to the top speed. But it powered up steep hills easily. Contrary to some reviews, I think it does have plenty of torque. It can climb steeply from a standstill. It's just that accelerating uphill depends on riding posture and pedal settings.

Wobbles were nonexistent, but, again, the fastest I went was 35mph downhill. Rode all day and battery was 60% when I stopped. Mileage unknown because I was doing so much playing around and experimenting.

Summary: Wrong Way is right about the suspension delete. If you own one and don't try it, it's your loss. 20 min procedure adds a lot. Pedal hardness ~87, Power Assist on, Accel ~67, Braking ~80 were the sweet spot for me (6' tall, 240lbs geared up). I feel like this would have been a GREAT wheel to learn on. Start without suspension for lower COG and higher responsiveness, add in suspension when/if it fits your needs. 

I just wish I could afford to buy one...

 

* Now my V12HT weighs nothing and darts like a hummingbird. I have to concentrate to ride again... 

 

 

Edited August 1, 2023 by UPONIT

[techyiam]

36 minutes ago, UPONIT said:

I rode it with suspension for half a day then took it out and kept it that way. For paved paths, city street riding and light off-roading in parks, no-suspension wins by a mile.

I am confused. I thought the streets of San Francisco are not well maintained, and so are very bumpy.

Perhaps your leg joints are better than mine. On local roads, my 22" Abrams is still too bumpy to ride comfortably.

[UPONIT]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

I am confused. I thought the streets of San Francisco are not well maintained, and so are very bumpy.

Perhaps your leg joints are better than mine. On local roads, my 22" Abrams is still too bumpy to ride comfortably.

They aren't well maintained in a relative sense. I tend to forget that other cities get a wilder swing of weather from snow to scorching heat, and so maybe have worse potholes? Here it's inconsistent , ever-changing surfaces, cracks and crumbles, and roadwork... but I feel quilty complaining when I see pictures of Canadian/N.E. US potholes...

I doubt my joints are above average. Maybe because I ride slower than most, I can avoid big bumps easier? I went off curbs a few times with the V13 and it was smooth. Solid. I need someone to teach me riding down stairs...

I was worried about quick braking, but with settings dialed in, it stops plenty quick. And without that suspension, it never feels like its gonna topple over, even though it weighs half a ton. Ditto on turns, where I thought the lean might feel like it was gonna get away from me. 

It was the most relaxed and comfortable I've ever felt on an EUC. If that's among your criteria, it's a treat.

[techyiam]

20 minutes ago, UPONIT said:

I was worried about quick braking, but with settings dialed in, it stops plenty quick. And without that suspension, it never feels like its gonna topple over, even though it weighs half a ton. Ditto on turns, where I thought the lean might feel like it was gonna get away from me. 

It was the most relaxed and comfortable I've ever felt on an EUC. If that's among your criteria, it's a treat.

I have ridden a V13 on very tight tracks a couple of times.

My daily ride is a 22" Abrams. So the V13 was very natural and easy for me to ride. Additionally, the V13 takes less effort to ride than the Abrams for me.

I agree, I did enjoy riding the V13 a lot, but with the suspension. I have never ridden a V13 without suspension, so I wouldn't know that it would be better. I bet you would like the V13 even more, should you have more time on it.

If haven't already ridden the Patton, you need to try it too. 

Edited August 1, 2023 by techyiam

[2disbetter]

The toppling over is a concern with the suspension, and I admit it is just because the pedal and wheel sit so high. It would be great if you could lower the center of mass with the pedal WITHOUT removing the suspension. 

Just like you notice with your V12 HT, no suspension and low pedals just make it feel so controllable. But the negative on the V12 HT is hitting a big bump at speed. How quickly you can be destabilized and have a problem. On the V13 you know there was a bump but it does NOTHING to your ride stability. 

When going fast, that is crucial to me. I've already broken a shoulder. I don't need to break anything else. Suspension is a must. 

That said, while I initially liked the V12 HT more because it was just more practical, I have come to mainly JUST use the V13. It is about all the redundancy on the boards, the safety features of the V13 that keep bringing me back. I need as many assurances as I can get that my wheel is going to work and not fail. And for me, I know of no other wheel on the EUC market that gives you more than the V13. 

Edited August 2, 2023 by 2disbetter

[Punxatawneyjoe]

3 hours ago, 2disbetter said:

I know of no other wheel on the EUC market that gives you more than the V13. 

Plus, as you get used to it. Your quick rides to the store start looking like this...

[UPONIT]

On 8/1/2023 at 2:17 AM, techyiam said:

If haven't already ridden the Patton, you need to try it too. 

I would love to! Unfortunately, Leaperkim doesn't let my local distributor carry their wheels because of some exclusivity nonsense. I won't buy a vehicle without a test drive, so Veteran wheels aren't really an option.

On 8/1/2023 at 11:40 PM, 2disbetter said:

But the negative on the V12 HT is hitting a big bump at speed. 

When going fast   -------------------  I've already broken a shoulder.

I don't need to break anything else.--------------------Suspension is a must. 

I am in 100% agreement about middle-aged bone breaks.

But I've edited your comment to highlight competing concerns: SPEED  and SUSPENSION.

I just don't have your faith in: tires that won't go flat, pedestrians who don't text, oil slicks not appearing, sandy spots not existing, gravel not loosening, wet spots drying, uncrumbled surfaces, winds not gusting, etc. I don't have your faith in all that to feel comfortable going at high speeds on a single wheel. None of those scenarios are helped by a suspension and all are potential crashes. I don't need to speed.

So... 1) I really do see the attractions of suspensions 2) I enjoy riding my suspension wheel.

But it makes more sense for me to configure a wheel for highest stability at low to moderate speeds and ride slowly or moderately in a super safe and stable manner. I have more time to avoid obstacles. Riding at high speed in a less stable, less maneuverable, lower braking power configuration that is less susceptible to big bumps makes sense for your riding style. I would probably do the same if I didn't feel speed was the most dangerous of all these factors.

---------------------------

Another important safety feature of the V13: Its pedals. I think my low-speed weird accident on the V12HT (and maybe other weird accidents documented on the forum) was mostly caused by having my pads too low over spiked pedals, making my feet get snagged during what should have been a step-off, or non-injury situation. The V13's pedals are big and not too spiky. My feet never got snagged when stepping off or dismounting, which feels a lot safer.

Thanks for the discussion. It's a lot to think about...

Edited August 3, 2023 by UPONIT
sppeling

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, UPONIT said:

Another important safety feature of the V13: Its pedals. I think my low-speed weird accident on the V12HT (and maybe other weird accidents documented on the forum) was mostly caused by having my pads too low over spiked pedals, making my feet get snagged during what should have been a step-off, or non-injury situation. The V13's pedals are big and not too spiky. My feet never got snagged when stepping off or dismounting, which feels a lot safer.

I have been thinking along the same line. I am willing to compromise with less spiky pedals, and smaller and less snug pads to reduce getting my legs broken.

I am still using the stock pads and pedals on my Abrams.

It seems when riders fall backwards and the upper body twists a bit while falling, the legs can get broken because the wheel will twist with your feet locked in.

 

[UPONIT]

On 8/3/2023 at 2:44 AM, techyiam said:

I have been thinking along the same line. I am willing to compromise with less spiky pedals, and smaller and less snug pads to reduce getting my legs broken.

It seems when riders fall backwards and the upper body twists a bit while falling, the legs can get broken because the wheel will twist with your feet locked in.

 

As can arms and shoulders. Feet sticking seems to be bad news all over. If you can't get your feet under yourself, or even control their location, you have no hope of controlling your landing. May not be a common event, but when it happens it's nasty.

Edited August 5, 2023 by UPONIT

[Punxatawneyjoe]

On 8/3/2023 at 5:44 AM, techyiam said:

I am willing to compromise with less spiky pedals

I was thinking the same thing in light of the recent accidents involving broken ankles. It's great to have traction, which the v-13 has plenty of but upon rapid unplanned dismount ( which has happened a few times off road for me) the pedals will release your foot. As long as you are not completely locked it with the power pads. I think that makes a difference as well. I use the grizzla flows and have room around my feet to move but close enough that if i lean forward or back i am in contact with them. i also keep the toe area up about an inch over my foot so if i jump i can catch it but i'm not locked in. they have enough traction for me to push over 90amps without even really trying during acceleration.

[trailless]

What PSI is everyone running in their suspension? I weight about 195-200lbs with gear and run about 210psi. It's firm for sure and barley sags when I step on it but it doesn't bottom out when going down stairs. 

 

[Ethereal]

17 hours ago, trailless said:

What PSI is everyone running in their suspension? I weight about 195-200lbs with gear and run about 210psi. It's firm for sure and barley sags when I step on it but it doesn't bottom out when going down stairs. 

 

I weigh 200 lbs. and I do set my psi at 210. I rarely do stairs but when I do I never bottom out. I also put a valve cap on before I place that orange cover back on. The valve cap does not interfere with the orange screw cover. My PSI has stayed constant and with no loss of air. 

[techyiam]

5 hours ago, Ethereal said:

My PSI has stayed constant and with no loss of air. 

Is this over several weeks or even months? Thanks.

[Punxatawneyjoe]

6 hours ago, Ethereal said:

My PSI has stayed constant and with no loss of air. 

same

36 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Is this over several weeks or even months? Thanks.

6 months so far, about 700 off road miles also.

[2disbetter]

The contrast between my V12 HT and the V13 is pretty huge. The V13 has been rock solid, while the 2 (now) V12 HTs have all had their share of little things and one big thing. 

I honestly don't know why ALL EUC manufacturers don't build their EUCs like the V13 is built. More safety not less. I'll buy an expensive EUC if it can prove that it is safer than other ones. I love riding EUCs, but I only have one life, and I'd like the EUC to not be the end of it. 

 

15 hours ago, Ethereal said:

I also put a valve cap on before I place that orange cover back on.

That is a great idea! I'll have to do that as well. My V13's suspension has never bottomed out on me. I weigh 215 lbs. I actually kind of thought about taking some air out because I would prefer a bit more action. Regardless the suspension works well and I'm really glad to have it. 

 

[Lets Do Science]

Hi guys, 

My V13 is violently shaking today coming home from a morning ride, anyone know what's going on here? It feels like there is some kind of wiggle when I turn the wheel on before it begins to rumble as such - wheel is no longer operational obviously. 

 

Video: 

 

[Punxatawneyjoe]

7 hours ago, Lets Do Science said:

My V13 is violently shaking today coming home from a morning ride, anyone know what's going on here?

Yikes! I don't know what is gong on there but maybe it's the slider adjustment? too much play? Aside from that i would say loose axle bolts.

[InfiniteWheelie]

7 hours ago, Lets Do Science said:

Hi guys, 

My V13 is violently shaking today coming home from a morning ride, anyone know what's going on here? It feels like there is some kind of wiggle when I turn the wheel on before it begins to rumble as such - wheel is no longer operational obviously. 

 

Video: 

 

That’s just the gasoline model.

[Lets Do Science]

33 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

i would say loose axle bolts.

Opened up the wheel, every single motor bolt sheared off. Wish me luck on the warranty repair fellas, this is going through my Alie shop too. 100% will need new motor 😑.

[bpong]

lets do science, damn !!!!

i'm sure those bolts were exposed to high torque loads from the motor.  those bolts cant be that cheap that a small amount of torque would simply sheer them like what is depicted in your photo.  in your warranty claim,  will you be asking for higher quality bolts ??  the money you spent on the wheel,  plus that fact that inmotion is releasing more product this coming fall,  i feel they may want to ensure you have a safe ride by agreeing to provide higher quality replacement fasteners.  im shaking my head at your image... its so unreal... good luck in your warranty claim - i sincerely hope they provide you with great service and the highest quality repair parts and fasteners too !!!

Edited August 11, 2023 by bpong

[Punxatawneyjoe]

Well that sucks, looks like ali never changed the original bolts. Did you hit a speed bump at high speed or anything? Wonder what sheared all of them? Inmotion sent new bolts out to all of the dealers, looks like maybe not to them? There was a problem with one person who had disassembled the wheel prior to it happening, i thought it was an overreaction and they had snapped them using an impact gun but maybe not.

[InfiniteWheelie]

I’m not an engineer but those bolts look quite small.

[Punxatawneyjoe]

4 minutes ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

I’m not an engineer but those bolts look quite small.

they are m6 12.5, should have over 1,400lbs shear strength a piece (if they are made to spec.) and there are 4 each side.